Google/Bing ban - Read & Help Please

[kristoff]

A bit of an update. As some of you may be aware, some time ago the German government filed a case or suit to ban eunuch.org from German internet. We can only speculate as to the complete rationale, but their arguments were that the EA was harmful particularly to German youth. There was much written about sado-masochistic behavior, genital mutilation, and violence / cutting directed at youth. No doubt our fiction story archive did not please them.

Once the German government obtained their banning order, they demanded that Google and Bing block us from German internet. Both have blocked us directly world-wide, it seems. Many indirect references can be found on Goggle, however. Yahoo still seems to let us through. In the past, our host, BME, has similarly been banned by the German government.

The following is a letter that was sent to Google, thus far to no avail (we have only received an automated reply restating the ban).

It is our understanding that Google.com has banned the Eunuch Archive (www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org)) from its search results. We would ask that this be reconsidered, and that we be returned to an unrestricted status. We believe that the Eunuch Archive serves a very important support service for many people. We would make the strongest possible case for reconsideration as outlined below.

Our site has been extensively reviewed by attorneys in both the United States and Canada, and they assure us that our site and its content are fully legal in both of those countries.

Our site is heavily trafficked. We get approximately 20,000,000 hits per month. There is obviously a need and a demand for a site like ours.

Eunuch.org is an extensive and vital support site for:

* Eunuchs (those made so by any reason who need a support network)

* Those dealing with testicular loss due to:

- Advanced Prostate Cancer - the most frequent cause, with Medicare alone paying for over 80,000 castrations per year

- Testicular Cancer

- Severe Orchialgia

- Testicular Injury due to accidents

* Those dealing with psychological and personality issues such as

- Gender Identity Dysphoria (about 1/3 of our membership)

- Body Integrity Identity Disorder (another 1/3 of our membership)

* Those who are exploring the very common fantasy of male castration

* Those exploring, coping, and coming to terms with past sexual abuse for which exposition is of great value in directing punitive thoughts at offenders. (It is very purgative.) Thus we have space for writing stories, as well as exploring thoughts and fantasies.

We also operate a live 24 / 7 / 365 moderated chat room that gets extensive use from all around the world. We frequently get frightened newcomers who tell us they are facing castration as a result of cancer and ask for help, which we gladly give. We have had several people who have said that without us they would have killed themselves or injured themselves - we have been able to provide support and stop this. It is vital that these people be able to find us.

Additionally, the membership of the Eunuch.org site has cooperated extensively with researchers, and continues to do so. We have been cited extensively in scientific papers (some of which are listed below), as well as in Wikipedia.

We would like to know the reasons for which the Eunuch Archive has been banned from Google searches and, especially, what steps we need to take in order for you to lift that ban. What further information would you need? What steps would we need to take?

We would ask that eunuch.org be restored to search results and allow people freedom to openly explore their needs on the internet unrestricted.

(Signed by)

K W, PhD, Lead Administrator (Kristoff)

R A (Uncle Flo)

R D (thefraj)

T S (Riverwind)

M S J, PhD (Danya)

Thomas W Johnson, PhD (Jesus)

Richard J. Wassersug, PhD

BIBLIOGRAPHY (papers based on Eunuch Archive research):

Eunuchs in Contemporary Society: Characterizing Men who are Voluntarily Castrated. T.W.Johnson, M.A. Brett, L.F. Roberts, & R.J. Wassersug. Journal of Sexual Medicine 2007; 4: 930-945.

Eunuchs in Contemporary Society: Expectations, Consequences and Adjustments to Castration. M.A. Brett, L.F. Roberts, T.W.Johnson & R.J. Wassersug. Journal of Sexual Medicine 2007; 4: 946-955.

Modern-Day Eunuchs: Motivations for and Consequences of Contemporary Castration. R.J. Wassersug & T.W.Johnson. Perspectives in Biology & Medicine 2007; 50 (4): 544-56.

A Passion for Castration: Characterizing Men Who Are Fascinated with Castration, but Have Not Been Castrated. L.F. Roberts, M.A. Brett, T.W.Johnson, & R.J. Wassersug. Journal of Sexual Medicine 2008; 5:1169-1680.

The Development of Standards of Care for Individuals with a Male-to-Eunuch Gender Identity Disorder. K.Vale, T.W.Johnson, M.S. Jansen, B.K. Lawson, T. Lieberman, K.H. Willette, & R.J. Wassersug. International Journal of Transgenderism [IN PRESS]

ACADEMIC PRESENTATIONS (based on Eunuch Archive research):

The psychology of emasculation. R.J.Wassersug. International Behavioral Development Symposium, Minot State University, Minot, ND, 2005

Gender identity after castration and its implications for feminism. R.J.Wassersug. Canadian Society for Women in Philosophy Conference on Agency and Embodiment, Halifax, NS, 2005.

Living well without testosterone. R.J. Wassersug. US TOO Prostate Cancer Survivor Support, New York, NY, 2005.

Modern day eunuchs: Who is castrated today, and why? R.J.Wassersug. Memorial University, St. John's, NF, 2006.

Castration Ideation and Its Consummation: Characterizing Contemporary Eunuchs, with R.J. Wassersug & T.W.Johnson. Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, Las Vegas, 2007

Strictly Neutral: Characterizing the Contemporary Eunuch Community, T.W.Johnson & R.J. Wassersug. Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, Las Vegas, 2007

Modern day eunuchs: Motivations for and consequences of castration in contemporary society. R.J.Wassersug. University of Lethbridge, February 2007, Lethbridge, AB., University of Texas, Austin, TX., April 2007 Vassar College, Poughkeepsie, NY.

Voluntary Eunuchs in the Modern World. T.W. Johnson. California State University, Chico, 2007

Between the Genders: Modern Day Voluntary Eunuchs. , T.W.Johnson & R.J. Wassersug. University Consortium for Sexuality Research and Training, Bloomington, IN, 2007.

A Passion for Castration: Characterizing Men Who are Fascinated by Castration. M.A. Brett, T.W.Johnson, L.F. Roberts, & R.J. Wassersug. International Academy for Sex Research, Vancouver, BC, 2007.

The Development of Standards of Care for Individuals with a Male-to-Eunuch Gender Identity Disorder. K, Vale, T.W.Johnson, M.S. Jansen, B.K. Lawson, T. Lieberman, K.H. Willette, & R.J. Wassersug. World Professional Association for Transgender Health, Oslo, Norway, 2009 (Also presented at 19th World Congress for Sexual Health, Goteborg, Sweden, 2009)

Characterizing the Modern Day Voluntary Eunuch and Eunuch Wannabe Populations. K. Vale, T.W.Johnson, R.J. Wassersug & M.A. Brett-Sutherland. 19th World Congress for Sexual Health, Goteborg, Sweden, 2009 (Also presented at World Professional Association for Transgender Health, Oslo, Norway, 2009)

What motivates men to seek voluntary castration? K. Vale T.W.Johnson & R.J. Wassersug. Canadian Sex Research Forum, Halifax, Nova Scotia, 2009

How does castration affect the sexuality of the modern day emasculated male? J. D. Fudge T.W.Johnson & R.J. Wassersug. Canadian Sex Research Forum, Halifax, Nova Scotia, 2009

We are currently working on means to get traffic back to our site, so that people can find us. Some of that is going to involve paying for some alternate web hosting. Contributions toward that end are definitely going to be needed. They can be sent as follows:

PO Box closed. Please PM Kristoff to mail donations.

Or

Via paypal at

Wyrmwyvern @ live.com

Another thing that folks can do to help traffic is to link the Eunuch Archive wherever you go - if someone/someplace will allow our link, please post it www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org). The more the merrier, presumably.

As more events unfold, more will be posted.

[Losethem (imported)]

Out of my self-imposed exile for a minute to talk about this and the broader community.

Google has the ability and does block certain traffic from Germany to their own servers. When I was in Germany earlier this year, I was trying to log into a gmail account I use here in the US. I couldn't access the account directly from the German ISP I was using. So Google *does* have the ability to limit traffic from Germany if they wish.

What did BME do to resolve their German issues? I remember this going on with them sometime back as well, but also that they managed to resolve it somehow. Perhaps you need to emulate the BME example and figure it out from there.

Lastly, shame on Google for using an elephant gun to shoot a mosquito. The broader implications of a Google ban are something people in free-nations should be incredibly worried about. When companies like Google and Microsoft decide to ban a certain site from search results they are censoring the public from seeing things since their servers act as a sort of Internet Utility service. I mean really, where else are you going to go search. When you have a monopoly on something you need to play fair or be broken into little pieces.

*ugh*

Anyhow, I hope the knowledge of what Google does with their e-mail system is a bit of help for you in this fight.

--LT

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Well I live in Germany and the English language Google works fine; you can go right to it at http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=eN and find eunuch.org as the first hit for 'eunuch.org' as it should be.

Google does have an unfortunate tendency to cave to whatever the local government wishes. Their Chinese search service is one of the worst in this respect. As far as the German government goes, we have to keep in mind that they have no native tradition of personal freedom and that's not what governments were set up to do. In most European countries governments are the continuation of whatever family of medieval thugs happened to win the right wars and take over neighboring principalities and duchies and margravates and whatever, and eventually unified these fragments as nation states. An identity based on freedom is very unique to the Americans (though the Australians and some other former British colonies have that streak too). The German state is basically a continuation of the Hohenzollern family's forays into Lithuania, and even the English state as we know it is the result of a Dutch-sponsored coup with some contributions from the hugely inbred royal family of Saxony which still rules the place. In none of these situations did people sit down and say, "We'll fight off aggressors but leave everybody else alone otherwise." They said, "We'll fight and you'll do what we say."

Not that the American government is perfect; there are a lot of personal freedoms in Germany that I appreciate, and they're a bit more low-key about social issues. But an identity based on freedom is very American and is a bit foreign to non-Americans; that really threw people off during the Iraq war for example. Now an America where I can walk down the street with an open bottle of wine with my boyfriend and marry him, that would be the perfect kind of America.

[fhunter]

Well I live in Germany and the English language Google works fine; you can go right to it at http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=eN and find eunuch.org as the first hit for 'eunuch.org' as it should be.

Enter "eunuch archive" and look.

Null, nicht, zero - nothing on the first page.

Be it Russian language page or your link.

:-/

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Enter "eunuch archive" and look.

Null, nicht, zero - nothing on the first page.

Be it Russian language page or your link.

:-/

I still get it as my first hit in the English page but not the German one. It's possible that Google gives different results to different searchers.

[kristoff]

with or without the extensions your link provides, no go here.

[wannabe (imported)]

suprised yahoo are still ok with eunuch.org considering they shutdown all their member groups about penectomy

[JesusA]

While "eunuch archive" and "eunuch.org" might still bring up the Eunuch Archive on a Google search, before the recent ban, the simple one-word search term "eunuch" brought up the Archive in second place, right after the Wikipedia article. Today it doesn't bring up the Archive on the first 20 pages. (I haven't checked further than that.)

[moi621 (imported)]

Bravo letter, kristoff et al

Cliff notes could not make it any more succinct.

Best Wishes and Thanks for the Board

Moi

PS I have no idea what kind of number might be

insulting as a donation. Are we talking, 5, 10, 100, 1K+ ?

Sincere question, really.

[Kortpeel (imported)]

Now an America where I can walk down the street with an open bottle of wine with my boyfriend and marry him, that would be the perfect kind of America.

Come and live in South Africa. The right to walk down the street with your significan

t with an open bottle of wine

is protected in the constitution. And you can marry him if you want.

But do some research first. There are other problems.

Kortpeel

[kristoff]

Bravo letter, kristoff et al

Cliff notes could not make it any more succinct.

Best Wishes and Thanks for the Board

Moi

PS I have no idea what kind of number might be

insulting as a donation. Are we talking, 5, 10, 100, 1K+ ?

Sincere question, really.

Any amount is acceptable. We have received contributions in past ranging from $5 to $100, as well as Canadian $, Euros, Italian Lira, etc

[moi621 (imported)]

Any amount is acceptable. We have received contributions in past ranging from $5 to $100, as well as Canadian $, Euros, Italian Lira, etc

Check made out to, pay to the order of:

Wyrm Wyvern, LLC

or send cash, and mail to the address below ?

PO Box closed. Please PM Kristoff to mail donations.

Correct?

Thank You

I have been here enough to send a check. Y'know who I am anyways.

Please, confirm the info above. Thanx.

Moi

PS Does EA have a PayPal acct?

[kristoff]

Check made out to, pay to the order of:

Wyrm Wyvern, LLC

or send cash, and mail to the address below ?

PO Box closed. Pl

ease PM Kristoff to mail donations.

Correct?

Thank You

I have been here enough to send a check. Y'know who I am anyways.

Please, confirm the info above. Th

anx.

Moi

PS Does EA have a PayPal acct?

Above information is correct.

Paypal account is at Wyrmwyvern @ live.com

[JesusA]

To clarify Kristoff's post:

I've sent checks made out to WyrmWyvern, LLC since the account was opened.

Kristoff also posted the Paypal account name for those who prefer anonymity, but who are willing to contribute to the upkeep of the Archive. (Cash in an envelope works, too!)

While the web hosting is covered by BME, there are still a lot of other expenses that we need to pay. Bboy used to pay them all out of his own pocket. Talula followed suit, paying everything himself, until convinced that members here ought to be willing to contribute.

[moi621 (imported)]

Check made out to, pay to the order of:

Wyrm Wyvern, LLC

or send cash, and mail to the address below ?

[

quote="kristoff" time=1259536740]
PO Box closed. Pl

ease PM Kristoff to mail donations.

Correct?

Thank You

I have been here enough to send a check. Y'know

who I am anyways.

Please, confirm the info above. Th
[/quote]
anx.

Moi

PS Does EA have a PayPal acct?

Paypal account is at Wyrmwyvern @ live.com

per kristoff.

The check is in the mail.

Moi

[devi (imported)]

One idea for getting around the ban might be to make a spin-off for eunuchs which would be the opening "clean section" which you could call something like the "eunuch archetypes" and from which you would be able to click into the ordinary "eunuch archives" proper or something.

[mrt (imported)]

suprised yahoo are still ok with eunuch.org considering they shutdown all their member groups about penectomy

Maybe I see this different but penectomy is not the same as at least some of the reasons for EA to exist.

Lets face it of the real "Eunuchs" on this system there are quite a few that got that way for some pretty conventional reasons. Cancer, Transexuality, Orchialgia etc. And I have to say it was invaluable to come here and find others who were in the same boat for whatever reason.

For what its worth I'm very uncomfortable with a great deal of the story section. I think the stuff with minors for sure should be dumped into a toilet. The violent stuff? I am no prude but I worry this is created either by people who might do harm to others or it might inspire some idiot to do harm to others.

And there are some pretty extreme posts by some folks here. How many are just posting "fiction" is pretty hard to guess. My guess (and hope) is "most" but there are people for example who have had "do it yourself" kink castrations and even videoed them so.... It worries me as well that this sort of thing is picked up by some young guy and they get it in their heads to do the same. We lost one member who I consider a friend (DonFL) who did it himself got into the ER (And the rubber room for a while) and ended up dead when they tried to clean up the mess. Dying in your 20s because it seemed like a cool idea to castrate yourself is INSANE...

[graylayer02 (imported)]

I do agree with mrt on the point he made about the stories. As far as the educational and support functions of the archive go, some of the stories can work at cross purposes to that. At first (13 years ago) I thought that this was primarily a porno site, and it took me ten years of lurking to become comfortable enough with the reality side of the site to even join. I think that spinning the stories off into a separate site, with separate registration procedures, might be a good idea even if the Germans weren't overreacting in their usual way.

[moi621 (imported)]

A day after my check was in the mail, I suffered foot in mouth again,

on this Board.

Short story shorter, consider fines as knuckle raps rather then banishment to raise money. Just a

Moi

[ghostautumn (imported)]

I definitely agree that the story section ought to be spun off into it's own site and the message boards be the public face that is easily discovered for education, awareness, outreach, etc. I've never ventured into the story section, and have no strong opinion about it's content. But it does seem logical that it become it's own separate (perhaps affiliated) site: there's no reason the message boards should be getting censored because of controversy over the stories. I'm not sure if that's actually the logic of the German government - they may be even more opposed to the educational purpose of the boards than the more fantasy-driven stories section - but it would be good to engineer the separation between the two as a precautionary measure.

As for making the sites visible by means other than the major search engines, the best way to start is by posting links to the site on social bookmarking sites like Digg and Del.icio.us. I'll get that started now. If there's any bloggers comfortable with linking to the site, that's also an important way to make the site visible if/when Google decides to cave in to misguided censors.

[ghostautumn (imported)]

Here's my Digg for the Archives: http://digg.com/health/Eunuch_Archive_Message_Boards.

Unfortunately social bookmarking sites aren't nearly as widely used as traditional search engines. For most people Google and its main rivals are the bottlenecks through which they view (a very small portion of) the Internet.

[Milkman (imported)]

I agree the stories should be on a separate site..

[Losethem (imported)]

We don't know what specific section of the site the objection is lodged towards, so it is difficult to say definitively why it was censored. The people censoring are not telling the administrators what they would have to do to get the ban lifted. Segmenting the site content is pointless unless the administrators know that is what the objection is.

It's very difficult to take action to clear up what people are objecting to if they don't tell you what it is. Google and Bing have teamed up against the archive and essentially said, "We've banned you, we're not telling you why, so go suck it!"

So, unless the archive can sue Google and Bing for reinstatement, the archive will be banned. Guess what? Those two companies have DEEP pockets, so unless a benevolent legal team (IE ACLU) gets involved, the ban is likely to stay in place.

I suppose one way to work around the ban would be to change the URL of the archive. That is unless Google and Bing banned us by IP address instead of URL.

[kristoff]

We've set up a reference page which we are promoting. It provides basic information and links to all places on the forums, but no direct links to the stories. We have a master of the internet working on getting us listed in the search engines, and many other places. Check us out.

www.eunuchworld.com

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Definitely I think that this is for the better, and I like the educational wiki idea when it comes to static content like the effects of castration, forms of HRT, methods that are used (in not too much detail), dealing with transgender stuff, dealing with doctors, dealing with partners, motivations for doing this, and the like. Another idea would be a more controlled educational site like annelawrence.com for transgenders, but that would be too much work for one or two people.

In other news, that link that I gave a week ago is now only giving results for me when I type in 'eunuch.org' and not 'eunuch' or 'eunuch archive'. The noose does seem to be tightening somewhat. Google is also beginning to censor domestic content like unflattering pictures of the Obamas (really!) so I'm thinking of avoiding them entirely. Yahoo isn't any better.