wpath updated ?

[Chesleyt (imported)]

does anyone know about the warpath new guidelines for male to eunuch and male to nullo guidelines I'm already a eunuch and now am starting the next step to get full nullification and need to know what they are now.

[GordonGG (imported)]

Do you mean WPATH? There are no new guidelines that I'm aware of. At the web site they are offering a download of Volume 7 of the Standards of Care (2012)

https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc

[GordonGG (imported)]

I'm unable to find any thing related to an expected date for a new SOC 8. There is a lot of talk about it though.

[Chesleyt (imported)]

I just read it and I'm more confused than i was before I read it. I've hated my balls and penis since I was 3 years old and wanted to have them removed I've cut and damaged my cock and balls since before puberty. going through puberty was the most horable thing I went through I never wanted to be a man I just wanted to stay a boy. I was castrated this year and am happy it's done finally but still have the penis that I hate. thoughts of banding it and cutting it off are in my head. I see my counselor tomorrow and will be talking to her about it do I have gender dysforia? I don't want to be a girl I'm confused.

[kristoff]

The WPATH standards will likely be out next summer. It is my understanding that it will likely include M-t-E eunuchs. I would send an inquiry to Jesus, as he is involved in that.

[zeebster (imported)]

I see my counselor tomorrow and will be talking to her about it do I have gender dysforia? I don't want to be a girl I'm confused.

Suggest that you do not call it "gender dysphoria" because that's not what the shrinks call it. That term is reserved for the folks who want to change genders e.g. MtF and complete the surgeries.

What you want and what I'm almost done getting, is a "Gender Nullification" surgery. Basically that refers to folks who are not gender binary, just want their genitalia removed. That is a relatively new classification for the shrinks to consider and some are not comfortable dealing with that issue.

Some of the surgeons will do that procedure with one letter vs. the two normally listed, but you do have to have at least one.

[Losethem (imported)]

Suggest that you do not call it "gender dysphoria" because that's not what the shrinks call it. That term is reserved for the folks who want to change genders e.g. MtF and complete the surgeries.

What you want and what I'm almost done getting, is a "Gender Nullification" surgery. Basically that refers to folks who are not gender binary, just want their genitalia removed. That is a relatively new classification for the shrinks to consider and some are not comfortable dealing with that issue.

Some of the surgeons will do that procedure with one letter vs. the two normally listed, but you do have to have at least one.

Respectfully, you're 100% wrong on this one Zeebster. IT IS gender dysphoria, and that is what the therapists working with the community have been calling it. Specifically diagnosis 302.6 in the DSM-IV, and in the DSM-V it is diagnosis 64.8 or 64.9, depending on the individual. Given a name it's, "Other specified gender dysphoria" or, "Other unspecified gender dysphoria."

I am a nullo, treated using the standards in the DSM-IV, and was given the 302.6 diagnosis. That is what appears on my therapist letter, and my surgeons paperwork.

--LT

[catoboros (imported)]

Suggest that you do not call it "gender dysphoria" because that's not what the shrinks call it. That term is reserved for the folks who want to change genders e.g. MtF and complete the surgeries.

Technically, according to DSM-5, "gender dysphoria" is broader than just change of binary gender, but I agree that psychiatrists prefer to use it for change of binary gender and not MtE (or at least mine does). My psychiatrist prefers the old Gender Identity Disorder group of definitions from DSM-IV-TR because he sees the new "gender dysphoria" as too vague and overly inclusive (we also discussed the current wave of teenage FtM). Being honest and detailing my long history and feelings seems to be working for me.

[JesusA]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) of the American Psychiatric Association uses the classification GENDER DYSPHORIA. The International Classification of Diseases, Eleventh Edition (ICD-11) of the World Health Organization uses the classification GENDER INCONGRUENCE. Both include genders outside the binary, though neither specifies "eunuch" as one of the alternatives. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health is currently working on the eighth edition of its Standards of Care. One chapter (Chapter 19) will be specifically on eunuchs. The original publication date was to have been last March, but next spring now looks likely. Some things take longer than they should, but progress is coming.

[zeebster (imported)]

I'm just repeating what my therapist told me. She also said that they refrain from calling the procedure "Emasculation" or a "total Penectomy" any more. Now they call it "Gender Nullification" for that procedure.

[hormonalEunuch (imported)]

I'm having a penectomy and perineal urethrostomy. My surgeon is calling it "genital reconstruction—male to nonbinary"— so I think there are a lot of ways to go with this sort of thing.

[Losethem (imported)]

The issue is that it has not been officially written up beyond the codes I mentioned, and the diagnoses which Jesus has mentioned. So you have all sorts of folks trying to put their own definition into the medical lexicon to make a name for themselves. The ONLY ones that will matter are those that make it into the actual standards of care at some point. At this point there is no classification, hence a person like us will get a diagnosis of 64.8 or 64.9 out of the DSM-V.

The therapist mentioned and the surgeon mentioned are simply finding something to call it to put in their notes/charting as they must put something.

In the USA therapists will be using the DSM-V definition, as it's the latest.

What I've heard it called in the past 20 years:

male-to-eunuch (MtE)

Nullo

Mascunull

Male-to-nonbinary

Eunuch

Neutois

Gender nullification

I'm guessing when the standards come out, the one that will stick will be MtE.

[keyman419 (imported)]

I went back to my letters and both the psychologist and psychiatrist who examined me used the term "genital nullification" but in all honesty that's usually the term I used in discussions after using the medical terms of radical penectomy with urethrostomy, and bilateral orchiectomy the first time. The psychiatrist mentioned a "marked incongruence between his expressed sexual identity (asexual) and his primary sexual characteristics" and diagnosed me with ICD-10 F64.1, Severe Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder. This diagnosis "justifies" the surgery requested. The psychologist who is a certified transgender and sexual health therapist asked me for clarification at our first meeting as to what a genital nullification actually meant. Once explained it was out of the way and we got down to the business of the needs for it.

I think it's still new enough that you will find various terms and definitions. Don't sweat the details, start with the medical terms and do get offended if someone wants to call it something slightly different.

[notsomanly (imported)]

While I recognize all of these reasons for castration, I feel like I'm none of the above and having trouble convincing the medical community that some men would be happier men without being so strongly controlled by testosterone. I've been taking estradiol and progesterone not because I'm transgender, but I just feel so much better. My wife appreciates that I'm becoming a better life partner and I feel like an upgraded male v2.0 who is free of the harmful side effects of testosterone. There are a few practitioners who seem aware of the meditation-like benefits of hormone adjustments and that's who I'm trying to find.

[GordonGG (imported)]

Exactly my reasons as well. I was lucky to find two practitioners that went along with it. A doctor for the meds, and a urologist to do the orchi.

While I recognize all of these reasons for castration, I feel like I'm none of the above and having trouble convincing the medical community that some men would be happier men without being so strongly controlled by testosterone. I've been taking estradiol and progesterone not because I'm transgender, but I just feel so much better. My wife appreciates that I'm becoming a better life partner and I feel like an upgraded male v2.0 who is free of the harmful side effects of testosterone. There are a few practitioners who seem aware of the meditation-like benefits of hormone adjustments and that's who I'm trying to find.

[notsomanly (imported)]

Exactly my reasons as well. I was lucky to find two practitioners that went along with it. A doctor for the meds, and a urologist to do the orchi.

I saw my internist today hoping to be referred to an endocrinologist, but she said that my situation is not part of standard medical care. I get it. She's a good doctor but has constraints. The best she could do is refer me to a psychiatrist, but what could he/she know about my situation that would give any insight into my current happy state? She understood my point of view and suggested that someone who councils people with sexual disorders might have encountered others who are happy with having low testosterone. I'd describe it as being free of the harmful side effects of T. I was completely up front about how I damaged my testicles and why I was now self-medicating on replacement with estradiol and progesterone. While she appreciated my honesty, there was nothing she could do.

So I'm now looking for a professional in the Chicago area who understands that not all men want to remain under the influence of T and that pharmacologic intervention is a better course for their lives than spending money on therapists. Any help finding such a provider in my area would be greatly appreciated.

[AnneK_TG (imported)]

So I'm now looking for a professional in the Chicago area who understands that not all men want to remain under the influence of T

Perhaps you can find someone who works with the transgender community. There should be something in the Chicago area. If nothing else, that would be a good place to start.

A search on "chicago transgender clinic" turns up some possibilities.

[Cseriess (imported)]

Perhaps Howard Brown clinics, lifeworks psychotherapy? I might start at HB.

[notsomanly (imported)]

I was thinking along the same lines. Thanks.

[notsomanly (imported)]

Perhaps Howard Brown clinics, lifeworks psychotherapy? I might start at HB.

I'll check them out. Thanks.

[Evolve]

Does anyone know the current status on the upcoming WPATH revisions with respect to recognition of MTE as a gender?

[Cseriess (imported)]

Hi Notsomanly. Did you contact anyone? I came across a therapist who might be a help. PM me if you want her name.

[kristoff]

Does anyone know the current status on the upcoming WPATH revisions with respect to recognition of MTE as a gender?

The new standards are tentatively expected this Fall, with no guarantees. The plan is to address the issues of Eunuchism and related issues.

[Evolve]

The new standards are tentatively expected this Fall, with no guarantees. The plan is to address the issues of Eunuchism and related issues.

Does anyone know whether these updated WPATH standards are still on track for this Fall?

[JesusA]

Does anyone know whether these updated WPATH standards are still on track for this Fall?

The editors for the Standards of Care are painfully slow. It was supposed to be completed and in print last year. I'm now anticipating spring of next year, although they are still claiming November of this year.