Chem-Cast

[Bill (imported)]

Does anyone know anything about Chem-Cast? I understand that it is a lactic acid based injectable castration agent. (Neutersol is zinc arginine based.) I am wondering how it compares to Neutersol in effectiveness. Also, of course, does anyone know whether it is effective on humans?

I know there has been discussion on some of the fora regarding lactic acid injection but I had not realized that there was a commercial product with that as the active agent.

Bill

[SplitDick (imported)]

I just posted on Chem-Cast on the "Eunuchs in the Arts and News" board a few days ago ...

The difference seems to be that Chem-Cast fully castrates (testicles are destroyed), whereas with Neutersol it seems to mostly affect sperm production. So it seems it may be the difference between castration and sterilization.

In any case, see my other posting for a number of links on both chemicals.

I wish I could find more specific information on Chem-Cast. It doesn't seem to be widely available, but would definitely like to try it. If it is just lactic acid, I wonder if that could be injected to the same effect?

Here is what one page says about the effect of Chem-Cast :

"Chemical castration- Chem-cast, approved by FDA in 1983, as a painless way to destroy testicles and spermatic cords of bull calves weilghing up to 150 lbs. There is no weight loss, off feed, high risk of infection, hemorrhaging or pain. It is 100 % effective. The procedure consists of injecting chem-cast ( 1 ml per testicle for calves weighing 100 lbs ) from top into middle third of testicle via small hypodermic needle. Swelling of the testicle occurs after 24 hours of injection. The swelling disappears in 2 weeks and testicle is reabsorbed and reduced in size. At 60 days, testicles are small, hard nodules and these disappear."

Sounds effective!

[nolo (imported)]

hey guys,

this chem cast sounds great where can i get mine?

has any one got personal experience with it?

can i get it from vet is it safe ?

is it expensive?

i am ready for this

[madscientist (imported)]

Where does one get this?

[inphx (imported)]

there is not a lot on the web on this for a vet product out there since 1984. sounds good for what many of us are looking for. i saw some months ago a posting from a fellow who was going to inject himself with lactic acid. incidently the cost of the med per calf is $2.00. lactic acid is cheap and should be readily available. like others i would like to learn of anybody's experinece.

[SplitDick (imported)]

I have researched Chem-Cast more, and the company that made it removed it from the FDA approval process. I am not sure why.

I agree that lactic acid is reasonably well available. Specifically, Chem-Cast used "DL-lactic acid". However, I think it is important to know the concentration of acid used, which is impossible since the company wouldn't publish that (probably a trade secret).

Apparently a 9% solution of DL-lactic acis is quite acidic (pH of 2.9) so I don't think you'd want to use a solution an more concentrated than that.

My biggest hope for permanent chemical castration is the drug being developed by Gonex. See www.gonex.com

[inphx (imported)]

lactic acid itself is acidic but it might have been given as a salt. both the D.L and the resolved forms are readily available. lactic acid and its salts are present in lots of food stuffs and is a natural component of living things.

the gonex product appears to be a sterilant rather than an agent for castration.

[SplitDick (imported)]

No, the Gonex product is an anti-androgen as well, because it will be marketed for cancer therapy in humans.

[madscientist (imported)]

If Gonex works with only one injection then it must be a permanent castrating agent. Also, though tempting, injecting anything directly into the testis would be very painful. Has anyone ever done that?

[SplitDick (imported)]

No, injections into the testicles are not very painful.

I've done it regularly, and injected everything from saline to cooking oil to hormones. Assuming you have a good, sharp hypodermic needle and insert slowly, there is little to no pain. I have injected up to six CCs at a time. There was no pain during or afterwards, and no significant bleeding (occasionally one small drop).

Additionally, specifically with the lactic acid of Chem-Cast, it says that there is little pain (for animals) because lactic acid is used within the body to numb sore muscles.

[madscientist (imported)]

Do your testis still function? What you tell me sounds like "ball pumping". I understand that guys can make them really large that way.

[madscientist (imported)]

I have researched Chem-Cast more, and the company that made it removed it from the FDA approval process. I am not sure why.

I agree that lactic acid is reasonably well available. Specifically, Chem-Cast used "DL-lactic acid". However, I think it is important to know the concentration of acid used, which is impossible since the company wouldn't publish that (probably a trade secret).

Apparently a 9% solution of DL-lactic acis is quite acidic (pH of 2.9) so I don't think you'd want to use a solution an more concentrated than that.

My biggest hope for permanent chemical castration is the drug being developed by Gonex. See www.gonex.com

How do you know that Chem-Cast is lactic acid? According to my research the trademark, submitted by Philips Roxane, is dead. Does anyone know the formula?

[SplitDick (imported)]

This link lists DL-lactic acid as the active ingredient of Chem Cast:

http://www.penpages.psu.edu/penpages_re ... 80186.HTML

I have also seen it mentioned elsewhere. None of the sites give an actual formula or concentration, because it is a trade secret.

[JesusA]

Philips Roxane seems to have merged into the Belgian chemical and pharmeceutical company Solvay, which is also the maker of Andro Gel (topical testosterone cream) and Estratab (for treatment of osteoporosis). They seem to have dropped all veterinary products soon after the merger. I'll try to find out more to post later.

[madscientist (imported)]

According to FDA rules all hormones that are given to food animals must exit the body before slaughter. It is possible that Chem-Cast remains in the testis forever. If that is the case then the testis would have to be removed before slaughter, in which case using Chem-Cast would be pointless in order to avoid surgery.

Since Chem-Cast is no longer a trademark I would assume that its formula would be public, though I wouldn't know where to find it. Any takers?

[SplitDick (imported)]

Just because a product was taken off the market does not mean a company will reveal the trade secret of how it was made.

[inphx (imported)]

lactic acid (chem-cast) is not really a homone but a common body constituent and is subject to metabolism. i have yet to see a report on how it functions in the manner being considered here. perhaps we need literature not accessible by the net.

[spadone (imported)]

I went over to their web page yesterday.

They actually have an effective product that would most likely work. Rather than targeting the testicles (which is hard for an injection to do), it targets specific receptors in the pituitary gland in the brain, that is responsible for secretion of the hormone that causes the testis to make testosterone.

There is little difference between the animal and human products, since the peptide/protein sequence is almost the same.

I wonder how long it would take someone (once it is released) to wreak havoc with this by giving unsuspecting people injections of this peptide that completely shuts down testosterone....

Just a thought.

Spadone.

[Xan (imported)]

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... nimal+AND+"

[colin (imported)]

Mad Scientist,

Trademarks and Formulae are different things. You can register a trademark without having a product behind it. However, most products are patented and patents are usually sought in all major countries, so I would suggest a search of the US Patent Office. It might not be under the name of 'Chem-Cast' but should be listed under the name of the company.

Incidentally, I believe that trademarks are eternal. Even if the original company no longer uses the brand name it does not mean that any one else can use it unless they come to an agreement with the owners. In that, it is different to patents which lapse are a specific number of years.

LOL

[inphx (imported)]

if there is indeed a patent issued for this it must include a working example which would have the formulation. this may not be the formulation that had been marketed but has to be one that in the inventors eyes works. they also have to included data and argument why this should work. it doesn't have to be real though.

[JesusA]

Chem-Cast is based on U.S. Patent # 4,356,189, which was issued on October 26, 1982 to Drs. Charles Stagg and Ronald Tribble. In the patent application they state that they successfully used the material on dogs, cats, cattle, and pigs, though with greatest success on dogs and cattle. They experimented also with horses, but only 9 of the 49 stallions it was tested on were successfully castrated. They postulate that the method would be successful on sheep and goats as well, with the pendulous scrotum being the critical factor.

The patent application itself only details their experiments on dogs and cattle. They specify use of U.S.P. (or better) grade lactic acid or a mixture of lactic acid and lactic acid lactate equivalent to a total of not less than 85% or more than 90% by weight equivalent of lactic acid. They experiemented with various concentrations of lactic acid and various amounts injected. There are tables showing the results of these experiments by species and size of animal.

Injection directly into the testicles resulted in atrophy of the testicles.

The entire 20 page patent is on-line at the U.S. Patent Office web site (patft.uspto.gov) and should be CAREFULLY read for the details. It's written in a strange hybrid of medical and legal jargon, but all the critical details are covered.

[inphx (imported)]

i read the patent mentioned. it states that many weak acids or bases with do the castrations but preferred is lactic acid. the latter is a natural body constituent and should have little lasting effects. the preferred concentration is 85% aqueous soln of usp pure d,l lactic acid. with bulls injection into both cords and testis preferred. in dog injections into the cords only - less tissue to be necrotised. if injected into epidymous (sp) - animal becomes sterile but not castrated. the patent is real and apparently it does work. i gather it takes awhile before the testes atrophy. i gather it cuts off the blood supply to the testes by injury of the acid.

[SplitDick (imported)]

I saw in one of the studies (not patent) that the amount recommended was 1cc per 100lbs of body weight.

Well it looks like a fairly good method of castration. It is only a matter of time before someone here tries it. But still be safe people!

[inphx (imported)]

I saw in one of the studies (not patent) that the amount recommended was 1cc per 100lbs of body weight.

Well it looks like a fairly good method of castration. It is only a matter of time before someone here tries it. But still be safe people!

was that injection into the testicle or the cord? i wonder how much pain is produced and how long for atrophy. i gather any method that cuts the blood supply off to the testicles for a period of time (wonder how long) will kill the organ. wonder if the lactic acid injection causes a lot of inflammation and swelling. apparently is does work.