...eunuchs without HRT

[attis]

Quick note - this forum area is primarily for discussing the fiction stories in the Fiction Archive website - are you asking this as a fiction question, or should I move the thread to the regular discussion area?

WheelyFixed

Please, You should move the thread to the regular discussion area. Thanx.
I don't know why. I opened a discussion, a general topic about what interests me (and maybe others too). It doesn't matter where it is.
But it has nothing to do with fiction.

[Pup4dad]

I'd also be curious as to how it goes. Seems like a good idea to at least have some HRT, but good to hear different perspectives.

[WheelyFixed]

I agree, it is a worthwhile discussion... I was already at high risk for bone health issues before I got fixed due to my SCI, and my TG doc wouldn't even considering approving me for castration w/o agreeing to some sort of HRT... Since I was wanting to get away from T, I am using Estrogen patches and am mostly happy with them (wish they hadn't made my boobs grow) but I think it is worth getting the perspectives of people following all the different option choices....

WheelyFixed

[NaturalEunuch]

In the paper "Eunuchs in Contemporary Society: Expectations, Consequences, and Adjustments to Castration (Part II)" by Michelle A. Brett, Lesley F. Roberts, Thomas W. Johnson, PhD, and Richard J. Wassersug, PhD, 92 voluntarily surgically castrated genetic XY males were surveyed on many topics. Very interesting paper, and particularly interesting is the breakdown of how the 92 eunuchs handled HRT.

• 40% were using no hormones

• 37% were using supplemental testosterone.

• 23% were using supplemental estrogen

This indicates that a fairly large portion of the eunuch population is going without HRT.

[asa4mar]

I have not had HRT in 8 years. I had a DXA test 1 1/2 years ago and one again 3 or 4 weeks ago and bone density is normal. I walk 1 1/2 to 2 miles every morning. Then I am on my feet all day working in my shop. I take vitamins D and B but not calcium. I seem to get enough calcium with all the high calcium foods I eat; milk, kale, salmon, broccoli, cottage cheese etc. I am wondering about low dose T or E and the benefits and draw backs. I have not asked my doctor about this yet. It is something in my mind I am curious about.

[WheelyFixed]

I have not had HRT in 8 years. I had a DXA test 1 1/2 years ago and one again 3 or 4 weeks ago and bone density is normal. I walk 1 1/2 to 2 miles every morning. Then I am on my feet all day working in my shop. I take vitamins D and B but not calcium. I seem to get enough calcium with all the high calcium foods I eat; milk, kale, salmon, broccoli, cottage cheese etc. I am wondering about low dose T or E and the benefits and draw backs. I have not asked my doctor about this yet. It is something in my mind I am curious about.

Exercise / load bearing is definitely a preventative for osteoporosis, especially when combined with adequate diet...

However one thing I've never really seen discussed (and which might make a good topic for research?) is that the standard DXA tests seem to look mostly at the legs and hips. It makes some sense since those are the big problem areas for fractures when one has bad bone health.

However it is possibly worth noting that the classic "Grandma hunch", which is supposedly also described in texts describing older eunuchs, and which was seen in at least one archeological study of a Chinese eunuch is a sign of bone health issues in the upper spine / neck area, which is not included in DXA scans... In other discussions of 'historical eunuchs' that asked why they didn't have bone health issues, it has been pointed out that the basic needs of staying alive w/o modern conveniences involved a lot of heavy load bearing activity, especially if one was a slave as most historical eunuchs were... But that load bearing activity really didn't involve a lot of load on the neck and upper back, hence the elder hunch... Something to think about...

I've never been 'hormone free' since my doc is very insistent that I do some form of HRT because of already being at high risk of problems due to my SCI. (including test results in the osteopenia range) According to her, the bone health benefits are the same for both T and E

Since one of my motivations for getting fixed was reducing the T-driven frustration about my inability to perform, I chose to do minimal E, and have been happy with that choice for the most part. It did make my boobs grow, which is mildly annoying, but not terrible (I still fall barely inside the 'normal male' range, at least with a shirt on.)

From other reports, most that are doing T are trying to retain some level of 'male function' with varying levels of success... To me, I was trying to get rid of the effects of T, so it didn't make sense to go on T after all the effort to get rid of the "T factories" Some that have done both T and E have said they found E made them feel better...

I think that the decision about which is "better" probably boils down to the question of why you got fixed, and what sort of remaining 'male function' you wanted in the first place...

WheelyFixed

[Lineppe'lik]

In the paper "Eunuchs in Contemporary Society: Expectations, Consequences, and Adjustments to Castration (Part II)" by Michelle A. Brett, Lesley F. Roberts, Thomas W. Johnson, PhD, and Richard J. Wassersug, PhD, 92 voluntarily surgically castrated genetic XY males were surveyed on many topics. Very interesting paper, and particularly interesting is the breakdown of how the 92 eunuchs handled HRT.

• 40% were using no hormones

• 37% were using supplemental testosterone.

• 23% were using supplemental estrogen

This indicates that a fairly large portion of the eunuch population is going without HRT.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17627741/
A link to the study itself in pubmed for those interested I'd like to point out the study was conducted in 2007, on the old forum. I wonder how decisions regarding hormone use have changed in those 18 years.

...
However it is possibly worth noting that the classic "Grandma hunch", which is supposedly also described in texts describing older eunuchs, and which was seen in at least one archeological study of a Chinese eunuch is a sign of bone health issues in the upper spine / neck area, which is not included in DXA scans... In other discussions of 'historical eunuchs' that asked why they didn't have bone health issues, it has been pointed out that the basic needs of staying alive w/o modern conveniences involved a lot of heavy load bearing activity, especially if one was a slave as most historical eunuchs were... But that load bearing activity really didn't involve a lot of load on the neck and upper back, hence the elder hunch... Something to think about...
...
WheelyFixed

So could exercise be used to significantly attenuate the effects of osteoporosis in later years? Seems promissory but also a difficult study to conduct, though everyone should exercise, eunuchs even more so imo.

[WheelyFixed]

So could exercise be used to significantly attenuate the effects of osteoporosis in later years? Seems promissory but also a difficult study to conduct, though everyone should exercise, eunuchs even more so imo.

I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but from all that I've heard, osteoporosis is seldom a concern among those living a more active lifestyle (i.e. rural farming folks..) I know my maternal grandmother was part of a farm family and lived to over 100. Up until some of her kids put her into a nursing home in her 90's she was very much into growing flowers on a pretty large scale - she was a major source for the local florists along with churches and family / friend weddings, funerals, etc... She had serious hunch, but no osteoporosis in her lower body that I know of...

I also know that osteoporosis is one of the major "secondary complications" that goes with SCI, because we can't do heavy load bearing exercise, however there is at least some evidence that things like using a standing frame for at least some time daily, and / or electro-stim driven exercise like stim-bikes or rowing machines reduces the risk (My injury is such that I don't respond to e-stim )

So yes, all available data says exercise will help... However it is important to note that it appears that osteoporosis is mostly not reversible, so you need to start and maintain the exercise program BEFORE you start seeing problems on the DEXA scans...

WheelyFixed

[sftineun]

Since 2009, I have been fully and permanently castrated using chemical castration. I did not start HRT until 2019.

During those 10 years, besides caring for my long-time partner with cancer and grieving his passing, I had been struggling health-wise and mentally from low T.

My first issue started before 2009 when I was still on Androcur and Tamixifen. I had anemia, low energy, frequent fatigue, weight gain and easily emotional, especially crying (all before my partner was diagnosed with cancer).

My depression, which started much later, was of course mixed with seeing my beloved partner of 23 years suffer from cancer treatments and eventually losing him. So, how much of it was created by my low T and how much was situational was impossible to pin point.

In 2019, I was found to have osteopenia and was put on low dose of TRT. All those symptoms improved or disappeared.

[Pussyman215]

As you can see in my introduction: I got rid of my entire manhood without HRT. What do you want to know?