EA Forums

Stevenator

How much E2 and Progesterone are You taking per dose/?

I go through stages, sometimes in a single day, where I am loving having nice pert little tits, hating the inconvenience of tits, and complete ambivalence about my tits. Most of the time I am just ambivalent. I really don't like wearing a bra, especially in the summer heat, and then I enjoy the support of the bra. My breast started growing gradually and I barely noticed them but once I started on estrogen they exploded in a matter of months (or maybe I just became more aware of them). Anyway, Eunuchs are going to grow breast to some degree regardless of lack of testosterone, artificial testosterone (which converts into estrogen) or taking estrogen.

GGG, check on the not all good info. It seems the WPATH adamant mandate ideas are waning.

I was on a slew of herbs for years to grow boobs. I chose herbs as a way to retain male function. When that became a moot point, I was committed to breast growth and the damage had already been done below. I'm still on a Cimetidine regimen, although not as drastic as before. The science behind this just keeps coming and I'm taking the bare minimum to attain results.

But, after years of herbals and otc meds to boost breast growth, I had dramatically snoopy/droopy boobs and I was worried that I was going to stay like this. Whereas I've been a member of the (science) based Breast Nexum site for years, the admin guru there suggested Progesterone to help build breast shape. I also started delving into the many trans groups on Reddit, mainly the Dr. Will Powers subreddit devoted to his method which is heavily dependent on Progesterone, mainly given after reaching Tanner Stage 3.

So, as of right now, I'm still DIY. I'm taking an acceptable average of doses that many/most TG girls are prescribed. I ordered PG as a means to improve the appearance of myboobs. On a whim at the last minute, I decided to "finally" order Estrogen. After four years I'd finally tired of taking so many different herbs that gave minimal and marginal results. I'll say this, when my retirement is officially official, (?), then I'll look into a proper endocrinologist to get the right blood work and make sure my levels are in the proper range.

But, sojourner, I ordered 2mg of Estrofem and 200mg of Micronized Progesterone. I started out at 2mg a day for a week. Many TG forums stated 2mg wouldn't do squat, so after a week I moved up to 4mg. I stay on 4mg for the next three weeks. It certainly felt more better and I did notice a slight boost. Feeling I was still missing out, and not sure if I was at a proper level, I bumped up to an acceptable standard range of 6mg a day. So far this seems to be a good dose for me and I don't plan on going any higher. I'm looking fwd to getting under a doctors care and on insurance because DIY is expensive.

For years I resisted pharmaceutical estrogen, mainly for the coming appearance changes. While I used to be years ago a very active bisexual bottom, and I do have some strong leanings towards TG, I'm still not convinced that I want to live life as a woman. I don't see it happening. I love love my skirts and kilts, mainly for comfort, but I have no desire to wear a dress, much less makeup and jewelry. It's just not me. As an experiment, I am going to try to grow my hair out as I'm retired now and I've spent my whole life curious about long hair. I've shaved my whole body for twenty years. But I can't ever see myself officially transitioning. In my little small Southern town where I know half the people here, I'm pushing things as it is.

That being said, Sean, I somewhat agree with your assessment. The bigger these things get, the more they're in the way. While I love the way they look and feel, I'm extremely upset at how much it hurts to sleep now. I always used to sleep on my stomach. No more. I now sleep on my side but it wakes me up at night with bad shoulder pain.

I have huge nipples now. I mean, big. Kinda shocking actually. But a bra at times is a necessity. While I've yet to find a proper bra, I did take Sean's recommendation on the sports bra and I like it very much. I've worn it several times while on my garden tractor or out in the yard. What a royal pain it is to be wearing a soaking wet tight garment that is loaded with hot greasy sweat. Yuck x 10.

Anyway, while I'm not trying to transition, I am loving the changes E gives. Shrinking of cartilage in feet and hands, slimming of legs and arms due to fat shifting, etc. The one thing I love most of all is the calming effect. Well, from four years of screwing around with my testosterone levels, I think I'm most happy I've found hormonal balance. Zero T absolutely sucks. At least with E, I now have a proper balance without the raging T fueled jerk I used to be. I'm much more thoughtful and calm and considerate and loving these days. I don't drive 100mph on the interstate anymore, either. Thank God!

I'm unsure if I listed it above, but due to the very nature that progesterone is, oral dosings and liver metabolism rates are something like 20%. Rectal administered progesterone bypasses the liver and goes straight into the bloodstream with absorption rates around 85%. So, that's what I'm doing. Within a months time, my droopy boobs are now a memory. Thank God!

I'm so long winded.

Sigh.

With regards to not transitioning, I did do the FaceApp thing to see what I'd look like as a woman, as so many TGs stated it was surprisingly accurate. I have to say, I fell in love with her. I guess I saw myself in her. LoL. She was beautiful! But, I'm still not convinced that's the life that I want to lead.

But I took that FaceApp photo and plugged it into a Portrait A.I. app and my Avatar is the result. That's kind of a neat app, btw. It gives you a painting result of a photo and it's based on the portrait artists of say, the 17th century.

(Anyway)

What size are you at now, Sean? I'm still a B-Cup, I guess you would say by appearance. My band is 45 and my bust is 49, so technically I'm a D-Cup, but that's just not so. Us men typically have barrel chests and that is my case too. While I'm filling and rounding out, I'm not really getting (much) bigger yet. So I guess what I'm saying is, I'm still able to hide myboobs. A plaid button up shirt does wonders for this. While I hope to get much more bigger boobs, I'm glad that it is possible to hide them in certain circumstances. I might dress androgynous one day. You'll never catch me in a little black dress. It's amazing how you can fool people though I've seen huge man boobs on dudes. They dress like a dude and no one bats an eye. If the same dude wore a feminine blouse, people would freak out. Go figure.

Lastly, Sean, it's good to see you posting again. I was worried we lost you there for a while. I read your blog often, and I consider you a valuable member of the community, as well as just a great overall person. I value your expertise and experience and opinions.

Take care.

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:47 am I go through stages, sometimes in a single day, where I am loving having nice pert little tits, hating the inconvenience of tits, and complete ambivalence about my tits. Most of the time I am just ambivalent. I really don't like wearing a bra, especially in the summer heat, and then I enjoy the support of the bra. My breast started growing gradually and I barely noticed them but once I started on estrogen they exploded in a matter of months (or maybe I just became more aware of them). Anyway, Eunuchs are going to grow breast to some degree regardless of lack of testosterone, artificial testosterone (which converts into estrogen) or taking estrogen.

seanthomas -- on ur blog, you have an early entry about what is true and false about living without testosterone. I'm wondering if, a few years on, you have any updates to that, or you comments remain true today as then? Thanks

JockItch (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:15 am seanthomas -- on ur blog, you have an early entry about what is true and false about living without testosterone. I'm wondering if, a few years on, you have any updates to that, or you comments remain true today as then? Thanks

I could not say anything from that original post has changed in any significant way. Although I had read castration could lead to gynecomastia, I really didn't give that much thought until I started developing noticeable breast over the past year. But yes, that is one thing I did not address in the original post. However, Man boobs are not the end of the world. So my only addendum would be it's true a guy without balls may grow boobs. Maybe I should do an update, but for the most part it would remain the same.

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:49 am I could not say anything from that original post has changed in any significant way. Although I had read castration could lead to gynecomastia, I really didn't give that much thought until I started developing noticeable breast over the past year. But yes, that is one thing I did not address in the original post. However, Man boobs are not the end of the world. So my only addendum would be it's true a guy without balls may grow boobs. Maybe I should do an update, but for the most part it would remain the same.

great, thank you. Good to know. I'm considering going no-T.

I'm doing some research to educate my doctor about using progesterone for breast growth. I've got several legit references made by the medical establishment. But in general they all say that it's a wash, nothing is proven. There is just one doctor (Dr. William Powers) that does believe in it 100%, in that it can and does help fill out, round out, a transgenders breasts. But he is in the minority.

Does anyone have any others references you can provide?

Here is what I have so far;

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/1 ... 81/5270376

Progesterone Is Important for Transgender Women's Therapy—Applying Evidence for the Benefits of Progesterone in Ciswomen

Evidence Synthesis; It is important to add progesterone to estradiol and an antiandrogen in transgender women's CHT. Progesterone may add the following: (i) more rapid feminization, (ii) decreased endogenous testosterone production, (iii) optimal breast maturation to Tanner stages 4/5, (iv) increased bone formation, (v) improved sleep and vasomotor symptom control, and (vi) cardiovascular health benefits.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30608551/

Conclusions: Evidence has accrued that normal progesterone (and ovulation), as well as physiological estradiol levels, is necessary during ciswomen's premenopausal menstrual cycles for current fertility and long-term health; transgender women deserve progesterone therapy and similar potential physiological benefits.

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S17 ... 1/fulltext

Conclusions; Our knowledge concerning the natural history and effects of different cross-sex hormone therapies on breast development in trans women is extremely sparse and based on low quality of evidence. Current evidence does not provide evidence that progestogens enhance breast development in trans women. Neither do they prove the absence of such an effect. This prevents us from drawing any firm conclusion at this moment and demonstrates the need for further research to clarify these important clinical questions.

Does anyone have any others references you can provide? Your help would be very much appreciated.

Dr. Will Powers is very popular with Trans Girls on Reddit right now. I mean like, all the rage.

In this power point presentation link that I'll post, he's got a lot of info about the science of adding PG. Basically he recommends it after reaching Tanner Stage Two or Three. He doesn't really follow the WPATH method, so you might get some push-back there. I do know a lot of WPATH doctors are adamant against it, but I'm telling you it works.

Not just my immediate experience, but just scroll through his subreddit. Hundreds of girls rage about it. Me personally, I was taking too high of a Pueraria Mirifica herbal dose my first two years, ignoring general wisdom that it would give me droopy Boobs and I wound up with droopy boobs. I tried Progesterone cream for years and it gave me micro results. Nothing to brag about. 4-6 weeks of Micronized Progesterone and I had normal looking boobs. I love it. They're still B-cups, but they look a hell of a lot better.

But, look his info over good. There is a lot about his methods that I don't understand. I believe, from memory, he does E2 tablets orally the 1st six moths because the first pass through the liver raises E1, and then it's the E2 tablet sublingual under the tongue for the next 18 months. Somewhere along in here PG is added and around the two year mark he switches to estrogen injections.

He advises administering the PG rectally as it goes straight to the bloodstream. Oral doses go through the liver first and you only get like a 40% benefit that way.

But, give him a look see.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... V6.0+.pptx

https://www.reddit.com/r/drwillpowers/about

On that 2nd Reddit link there is a YT presentation link from last year that's labeled outdated. He mentions why in one of his posts, but it's because he's updating and tweaking his method of approach. He does go over some good science why PG works in the YT link.

It's funny, because in this post the same question is asked. The thing is, this is a very common question in his subreddit .... How can I get my doctor to ________ .

https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/c ... hod_to_my/

Stevenator (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:24 pm Dr. Will Powers is very popular with Trans Girls on Reddit right now. I mean like, all the rage.

In this power point presentation link that I'll post, he's got a lot of info about the science of adding PG. Basically he recommends it after reaching Tanner Stage Two or Three. He doesn't really follow the WPATH method, so you might get some push-back there. I do know a lot of WPATH doctors are adamant against it, but I'm telling you it works.

Not just my immediate experience, but just scroll through his subreddit. Hundreds of girls rage about it. Me personally, I was taking too high of a Pueraria Mirifica herbal dose my first two years, ignoring general wisdom that it would give me droopy Boobs and I wound up with droopy boobs. I tried Progesterone cream for years and it gave me micro results. Nothing to brag about. 4-6 weeks of Micronized Progesterone and I had normal looking boobs. I love it. They're still B-cups, but they look a hell of a lot better.

But, look his info over good. There is a lot about his methods that I don't understand. I believe, from memory, he does E2 tablets orally the 1st six moths because the first pass through the liver raises E1, and then it's the E2 tablet sublingual under the tongue for the next 18 months. Somewhere along in here PG is added and around the two year mark he switches to estrogen injections.

He advises administering the PG rectally as it goes straight to the bloodstream. Oral doses go through the liver first and you only get like a 40% benefit that way.

But, give him a look see.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... V6.0+.pptx

Stevenator (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:29 pm https://www.reddit.com/r/drwillpowers/about

On that 2nd Reddit link there is a YT presentation link from last year that's labeled outdated. He mentions why in one of his posts, but it's because he's updating and tweaking his method of approach. He does go over some good science why PG works in the YT link.

It's funny, because in this post the same question is asked. The thing is, this is a very common question in his subreddit .... How can I get my doctor to ________ .

https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/co

mments/icir1y/how_can_i_introduce_the_powers_method_to_my/

Thank you Stevenator, but I did mention him in my post. I've read all his stuff, but I will look at the links you posted incase I've missed something. Your links here will probably help someone else when they read this thread.

Weird .... I'm sorry.

I must have skimmed the first two sentences and then jumped to the middle.

I'd do a content search on Breast Nexum. I'm friends with the Admin Guru there, Lotus, and I'll ask her what she thinks. Lotus is a researcher of sorts.

My initial search there came up with 140 pages of responses. Narrowed down to Lotus' posts, it's 8 pages of results. Of course, her threads are 140 pages long. LoL.

I sent an email to her. She sometimes responds late at night. I'll report back if there's anything to add.

I apologize, again.

When I looked into using progesterone along with oestrogen I found reports that taking too much was counter productive for the transgender community. I (think) I remember that as the level goes up, it produces more T in the system, thus counteracting the E and the reasons for taking it. Less was more, so to speak.

I did try it in low dose, and was I very happy with the additional development and the way I felt because it improved the quality of my sleep.

I have not done any current research so these are just my thoughts.

DesperateGirl (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:22 am When I looked into using progesterone along with oestrogen I found reports that taking too much was counter productive for the transgender community. I (think) I remember that as the level goes up, it produces more T in the system, thus counteracting the E and the reasons for taking it. Less was more, so to speak.

I did try it in low dose, and was I very happy with the additional development and the way I felt because it improved the quality of my sleep.

I have not done any current research so these are just my thoughts.

Thanks for that. I've read similar stories before.

Dr. Powers uses PG as an AA. Lord knows my T is flat as it gets. Erections are a thing of the past.

Stevenator (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:46 am Dr. Powers uses PG as an AA. Lord knows my T is flat as it gets. Erections are a thing of the past.

Anything that lowers T is great, especially if the greatest side effect is bigger breasts!

I always was a breast guy. When I retired, I was determined to grow them. Went on estradiol. got to a 38 B. Still take the estradiol. At one time it was 6 mg a day (2 mg X 3). Seems to plateau there. I love them. I wear a bra everyday, even to doctors. Wife is on board. Love to fondle them, wife does too. Are bra pics allowed?

Stevenator - on the progesterone, what do you take per day - one capsule daily?

I don't think photos are possible here, and yes. It's one 200mg micronized progesterone capsule. It's designed as a vaginal suppository, but I administer it rectally. It's a wonderfully odd drug. It works well with estradiol, but it only has an effective life of 4-12 hours. So, some people do use it every 12 hours. I find once every 24 is fine. Dosed orally it goes through the stomach and liver. After broken down it's effective rate is only something like 20%. Dosed rectally insertion it goes straight into the bloodstream for a 90%+ effective rate. The stuff works. I went from a large B to a small D in a month. No kidding. I'm kind of plateaued right now, but I'm still plugging away.

The jury really still is out on micronized progesterone.

Stevenator (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:24 pm WPATH doctors are adamant against it

s use. Mainly because of its close association with the uterus and pregnancy. But, 99/100 trans girls will tell you that it will give you bigger boobs.

Some people try to mimic the female system of progesterone production over a 14 day period. I'm finding that even every other day works just as well, too.

Do a search on Reddit and you'll find a ton of responses.

Good Luck, and .....

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE !!!!

I had been off hormones for most of the past year and was doing pretty well. In the past couple of months I started noticing memory problems and some return of libido, so I've gone back on both estradiol and progesterone. In the past week, I've noticed a drop in sex drive to almost nothing and that feels so right for me. Progesterone has also done wonders in maturing my breasts, increasing their fullness and my nipples are also fully in the female size range. I love it!

I know that there are those in the medical community who don't recognize the utility of progesterone, but my experience leaves no doubts.

..oh, and my memory is improving rapidly. There is a large literature on beneficial effects of female hormones on memory.

The memory thing about hrt confuses me. No pun intended. I've heard a few things, but not enough to form an opinion. I haven't heard too much. Probably only enough to confuse me. lol!

I took Pueraria Mirifica (herbal phyto/estrogen) for four years. It gave me a large-ish B-cup. The main reason I switched to HRT, was the supposed positive properties progesterone provides promoting proper breast growth. Mine were conical and flat before. Progesterone definitely filled them out. Plus, the stuff makes me sleep like Rip Van Winkle.

I've been on HRT for six months. Thankfully no major facial changes yet, but myboobs did balloon in size. I'm a 45 band and 51 bust. They're much more rounder now. The only changes I've noticed in the last several months is much fatter things. My calves and feet are very thin but my thighs are fat as a middle aged mother. I'm loving that. Also loving the calm and peaceful feeling estrogen brings.

I'm hoping for much more bigger boobs in the long run.

Stevenator (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:41 pm The memory thing about hrt confuses me. No pun intended. I've heard a few things, but not enough to form an opinion. I haven't heard too much. Probably only enough to confuse me. lol!

I took Pueraria Mirifica (herbal phyto/estrogen) for four years. It gave me a large-ish B-cup. The main reason I switched to HRT, was the supposed positive properties progesterone provides promoting proper breast growth. Mine were conical and flat before. Progesterone definitely filled them out. Plus, the stuff makes me sleep like Rip Van Winkle.

I've been on HRT for six months. Thankfully no major facial changes yet, but myboobs did balloon in size. I'm a 45 band and 51 bust. They're much more rounder now. The only changes I've noticed in the last several months is much fatter things. My calves and feet are very thin but my thighs are fat as a middle aged mother. I'm loving that. Also loving the calm and peaceful feeling estrogen brings.

I'm hoping for much more bigger boobs in the long run.

The neural repair/maintenance story has been muddled in the past by using forms of estrogen that are not bio-identical to estradiol. As for progesterone, there's a clinical trial seeking to find whether progesterone is beneficial to soldiers who have suffered post traumatic brain injury. An early trial was highly promising. I'm encouraged that the medical community is looking at effects on males as well as females. Testosterone can have positive effects on the brain, but estradiol and progesterone may be far more powerful. It's a pretty good deal to have better brain function along with developing boobs.

after almost 6 months of estrogen and finasteride, i am between a/b cups now. also: i am actually ok with this breast size. don't want to grow mountains, given my comparatively smaller frame.

btw, do people with breasts do regular breast exams? is this something i need to start?