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guy26 (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:08 am feedback,

How long did it take for you to move into acceptance? I can't imagine being forced into low testosterone without choice. I could see it causing a lot of distress.

You seem to dislike the behavior that testosterone brings on in you and yet you go on it from time to time. What desirable traits and characteristics draw you to try it again and again?

Well I did not notice any change between having working testicles to non-working testicles, but for my sex drive going away and the normal side effects of no hormones.

_g

I found I started to look at people differently, not sexually but I saw beauty in both sexes which I never did before. Maybe it's because I see myself as non sexed but I never looked twice at a man before and now I find I am attracted to both sexes. I have never acted on this but it intrigues me none the less.

feedback (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:27 am I found I started to look at people differently, not sexually but I saw beauty in both sexes which I never did before. Maybe it's because I see myself as non sexed but I never looked twice at a man before and now I find I am attracted to both sexes. I have never acted on this but it intrigues me none the less.

Has anyone else here experienced some fluidity in their sexual preference based on changing hormone levels? I don't disbelieve feedback at all. I'm really curious since it seems to contradict what I have read in peer reviewed journals. Please don't ask me to site the reference. LoL. It might take a while to find it again.

I'm kind of curious about how others find acceptance from others about being castrated or about having a GID related problem. I took a chance and opened up to a high school friend. She responded well. I'm not going to give you what she wrote, but I will give you most of what I wrote back. I think it holds some value in terms of seeing how I am finding acceptance.

"... I appreciate that you are so accepting. It means a lot to me knowing that you didn't freak out or think I'm totally crazy. I admit I am occasionally crazy. LoL. But I try to keep it to a minimum.

I have told my mom, my other half, my therapist, my family doctor, tons of anonymous people online. And I have told a handful of people in real life that know me from a more neutral stand point such as yourself. Surprisingly from my perspective, the more neutral people have also told me they see me as more docile or less aggressive or something along those lines. And so far none of them have seemed all that surprised about the situation. Both of those things have been fairly surprising to me.

You asked if I was surprised by people's reaction. I was most surprised by my family doctor's reaction. He didn't really believe me when I first approached him about this problem. He seemed to think it was some kind of extreme bipolar related issue and not related to GID at all. He has accepted my therapist's judgement, but I really want him to understand. I don't know why it is important to me that he understands my problem and not just prescribe medication. I am going to ask my therapist what he thinks about offering my family doctor all of the recently stuff I have written on this issue. I hate to think about putting him a position where he feels he HAS to read everything. But if he has the interest to do so, I'd like to give him that opportunity. Maybe it comes down to wanting him to feel that he is doing the right thing. And right now I feel that he is a little uncertain about that.

My other half has generally known about this problem since we found out together that I have bipolar. This issue is what ultimately setup a chain reaction of events to getting diagnosed with bipolar type 2. My other half has had about 5 years to deal with it thus far. I think initially it was a complete shock and he was really upset and hurt by it all. He seen my desire for castration as wanting to hurt myself and it made him incredibly sad and angry. He has mostly dealt with the issue, but it sometimes still troubles him. For a long time he liked to joke that I had neuticals, which are fake balls that vets can put in pets after their castration. LoL. We seen an episode of something and it has stuck with us ever since. In some ways he deals with it by joking around, but we have also had serious conversations about it. He wants me to be happy, but he would prefer that I don't change too much. Strangely when I asked him recently if he would prefer that I were more or less masculine, he doesn't have a preference. That is kind of surprising to me.

My mom has also been aware of my drive toward castration ever since I got diagnosed with bipolar. A few weeks after being diagnosed, I was manic and thought it would be funny to send her my whole journal. If you think I have written a lot recently, it is nothing compared to the volume that I have written from the beginning. The word count on my journal is around 126k+ words and maybe it was around 50k at the time. So yeah. Um. She was a just a little concerned upon reading it. Initially the stuff I wrote wasn't to be shared with anyone so it was harsh, unfiltered, raw, and to the point. Overall, it has been a worthwhile experience and it has brought me closer to my mom. Considering that I'm the furtherest away and see her the least, on the surface it would be surprising to know that we are probably the closest out of my brothers.

It has surprised me how accepting people have been of me. I expected something harsh. Maybe it's because I don't look like I have a problem or maybe I don't act really feminine. I'm not for sure. Any kind of gender bending tends to be met with harsh results in our society. Whatever it is, I swear it is the same reason I didn't get picked on in high school. If you know what that reason was, I'd be happy to hear it. If going up on testosterone just fixes everything and it happens to make me more masculine physically and/or mentally, I'd imagine that people would be more easily accepting of me than if I lowered it. I don't know though. I could be wrong though. I'm not super masculine as it is and I have never gotten flack for it. Oddly, I have felt that people have been more protective of me because of not being all that masculine. I have no idea how to describe that impression other than more directly how I felt when I was in Guatemala.

Most people don't have the time or make it a priority to fully explore their feelings and the difficulties they face in life. Often times more important immediate concerns seize their attention.*And lord knows that our society has every distraction available at every opportunity. But sometimes it isn't really an option either, such as when you have kids sucking up all your time. At some point though, to be a healthy individual we all need someone to intently listen to what is on our mind. No one is an island all unto themselves able to withstand all that life has to throw at them.

...

It's okay if you can't offer any additional insight into this problem or whatever process that I end up going through to reach a resolution. Sometimes it just helps me to share my story to others and get their intuition and reaction. Sometimes just having someone to listen to is helpful all by itself. I have called my mom a lot recently and she just listens. She is understanding, but she doesn't always have a lot to say. It isn't that she doesn't care or want to participate in the conversation, it's just that she doesn't know what to say.

It's funny that you say I'm an expert in this area. I don't feel like I am. I am becoming an expert on myself, but I'd be hard pressed to speak about others that have this problem. I hope to meet some of my peers here at the very end of August. There is a big gathering in Minneapolis, MN this year.

I'm not for sure I could ask for anything more than unconditional support. That means a lot to me! "

Now that I've shared, I'd be happy to hear about your experience.

Today I met with my therapist. It was pretty easy going. We talked about other people's reaction and how usually the less knowledgeable tended to ask me if I'm worried that I might become aggressive with more testosterone. The answer is no. But after talking awhile with him, my therapist offered an interesting way of looking at aggression. He likened it to a continuum that ranges from passive to assertive to outright aggressive behavior. The words passive, assertive, and aggressive are just labels along the continuum to categorize a person's behavior in response to certain kinds of stimuli. I thought it was insightful. I have never thought of it that way.

If you have had your testosterone level changed for one reason or another, do you feel that going up on testosterone moved you higher in the continuum? And conversely did going down lower you on the continuum? Raymar mentioned that it worked for him in this regard.

In having tried depo provera in the past, I never felt that it changed how I felt or my behavior in terms of aggression. We shall see what it means for me to go up on testosterone in this regard. My guess is that it will have little or no affect. I wouldn't mind if it actually went up at least some in this regard.

Anyway, I'm bringing the idea up again because I think it is a novel way of looking at aggression.

On a side note, I'm still hoping to get a call back from the doctor's office today stating that they got my blood work back and that I can start TRT. If they don't call back, I'll try again on Monday or Tuesday.

Nope, I didn't get a call back. Have to wait a little while longer...

Today I have been having self doubts about my core identity. I'm not entirely for sure why. I find it more distressing that I can't be happy with who I am. It seems like such a simple task in life and one that would grow easier, not harder over time. You could suggest that I'm having pity for myself and asking, "why me?" Maybe that's the case, but it seems deeper than that.

For a long time I have felt that my self identity shifts just slightly from time to time. It isn't anything major, but it has a way of pushing my thinking one way or the other. It's almost like I'm precariously sitting on a fence. If I get nudged one way, I feel a great incongruity between feeling like an eunuch deep inside and the person I see in the mirror. And if I get nudged the other way, I feel distressed that I'm not masculine enough either on the inside or the outside. Having bipolar is always a wild card and has unpredictable ways of intersecting with other kinds of problems. If there is a pattern to my mood and the incongruity that I feel, I have yet to detect it. I can only tell you that during hypomania and subsequent hypsersexuality, this problem becomes crushing.

The other part of this is just anxiety about change and uncertainty. I feel like burying my head in the sand and trying to put this problem in a box on a shelf in the attic. I know I could do it. I have done it before. It would be a bad idea, especially since I have professional help to work with me and I've never had that in the past. I might be able to ignore this problem for 6 months or maybe even a year. But no matter how much I want it to be so, this problem won't disappear. And often times this act of denial and suppression falls flat on its face when I enter hypersexuality. I go from being in denial to suddenly being faced with something that I have no possibility of hiding from. That kind of circumstance is the most dangerous because I have come close to acting out on it impulsively. It's like being hit by a car because you were blind and unable to look both ways before crossing the street. And despite knowing all that, it is compelling to do it anyway. I can find peace today at the expense and risk of tomorrow.

What really kicked up the level of anxiety is the research that I did yesterday on testosterone. I was comparing the differences between taking testosterone topically as a gel versus an injection. There are tons of anecdotal accounts and opinions on the matter. Some of them are more plausible and based on evidence than others. For instance, taking testosterone topically yields a greater conversion to DHT (dihydrotestosterone) in comparison to the injection. More DHT can accelerate male pattern baldness, which I don't have much concern about at this point. But more importantly in my case, it can have an even greater effect at increasing one's libido. There is a big difference between my other half's sex drive and mine. It doesn't cause much of a problem in our relationship, but it is a point of continuing frustration for me. I would hate to make it even worse.

I don't have much fear that if my sex drive goes up that I will feel out of control. To me there is a huge world of difference between the sex drive from hypersexuality and one that is driven higher by hormones. There are other issues present when experiencing hypersexuality that makes it far more likely to feel like it is beyond normal and excessive to the extreme. There have been times with hypomania that I have been driven to be sexual for hours and hours at a time when I'm not really feeling horny. You might wonder why anyone would be sexual by themselves if they aren't horny. There is this kind of internal drive that is hard to explain without experiencing it first hand. It can provide a sense of focus that crowds out other normal thoughts and concerns in life. It can shift all of your priorities and leave you in a single train of thought that can persist over days. That's why I don't really fear increasing my sex drive more than it already is. It won't be out of control. It might be uncomfortable and I might feel it is excessive compared to what I'm use to, but it won't be dominating my existence. And eventually it will just feel normal.

I found it disturbing that there is more variability on the effectiveness of raising testosterone levels using the topical form. Some guys had hard numbers and they were barely able to get it up into the middle of the normal range. Were they using it wrong or what? In my case, we are targeting the high end of normal so it seems there might be more time required to get there. This prospect adds a little more uncertainty and will cause me to question even more critically whether what I'm experiencing initially is real or psychosomatic.

The prospect of having much smaller testicles as they atrophy from not producing testosterone has bothered me a little lately. Don't get too excited. LoL. It isn't what you think. I don't directly care about this one way or the other. Like I have mentioned before, they aren't really a part of my self identity in terms of masculinity. I only care because I feel like it means a lot to my other half. If they atrophy a lot, he will get use to it as long as it doesn't happen too quickly or it isn't too extreme. I guess there is some possibility of taking HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) to prevent the testicles from shutting down with exogenous testosterone because HCG is similar to LH (luteinizing hormone). However, I haven't been able to find what I would call authoritative information about this. If anyone knows more, I'd be interested to hear about it.

I have a small amount of fear that taking a year or more to search around for

guy26 (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:42 am [quote="guy26 (imported)" time=12

95827740]
the right level of testosterone will
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somehow ultimately be a failure. But taking both testosterone and/or anti-androgens over that time could prevent my testicles from starting back up to produce my current level of testosterone. And maybe somehow I would be in a worse situation than where I started. Maybe that is my greatest fear? I don't really think that will happen, but anything is possible. I don't feel that doing nothing is sustainable for a long time either. If I did nothing, I'd be highly surprised if I was able to go even another two years before acting out on this incongruity. As time goes on, this problem is getting harder and harder to stand idle and do nothing. So doing nothing isn't a long term option.

And it concerns me a little that it could mess with my cholesterol and blood pressure. Because I have a lot of problems taking pills for some unknown reason, I'm not for sure if I would really be able to keep everything in check. I'm not looking to kill myself by causing my cardiovascular system to prematurely fail for my age.

At my last appointment with my therapist, we talked about the times when I'm not feeling masculine enough on the outside or the inside. Why do i feel that way? It strikes me as odd on the surface. Am I comparing myself to someone? I don't think so. I have no idea who I would be specifically comparing myself to. I don't have any role models or anyone that I look up to in that regard. And that hasn't been the case in the past either. If I'm objective, I'm not at the absolute bottom of masculinity compared to a lot of other guys. I probably tend to rank obese and many heavy set guys below me on the subjective scale of masculinity. I feel that being heavy set or obese really takes a bite out of their masculinity. I don't know if anyone else feels that way, but I do.

Maybe a better way of looking at this is asking how in concrete terms I could feel more masculine. If I had more body hair, especially on my arms, I would feel more masculine. I don't have a lot of body hair, but I have more hair than you would find on a lot of asian guys. I am just average in terms of strength despite lifting weights for years. Maybe this bothers me just a tiny bit, but not a lot. It is frustrating that most other guys are stronger than me even when they don't work out. I have no explanation for this. Lifting weights has certainly improved the way that I look and I'm happy about that. I'm not afraid to be naked in the presence of other guys, so I must have some confidence about how I look compared to others. Maybe my cock is just slightly under average. If I'm being 100% honest, it is 5 1/2" and a little thinner than average. It has never bothered me too much. If anything, it is just wishing that it was thicker. Ever since I got a prince albert piercing, I have been really happy with my cock. (That sounds horribly self conceded. LoL.) It looks bigger while flaccid with an 8 gauge ring through it and it looks more masculine. I wish I would have done it a long time ago. And besides, I can climax nearly as fast as I want now. LoL. If you want increased sensitivity or you feel like you were cheated because you don't have a foreskin, I would recommend getting a prince albert piercing immediately. Don't wait! Anyway, I feel that my face is boyish looking. This is a good thing overall. It makes me appear younger than my age especially being in shape and not overweight. But I feel that my face should be filled out just a little bit more than it is. I don't feel that my voice is all that masculine either. It isn't a commanding voice or deep or one that inspires great confidence. Although once in a while, I somehow find my voice and it sounds much better. I don't know why sometimes it happens to sound better. This is something that I might be able to change with some work. The last physical trait might be my overall skeletal structure. If I had to pick on something specific it would be my wrists. If you compare my wrists to another guy's, mine are always thinner. My hands are smaller and my forearms are thinner than most other guys. I'm not for sure why I'm like that. My brother's aren't like that.

What about what I might be lacking in terms of masculinity inside? This is a lot harder to answer, but I'll try. The easiest to start with is where I sit on the continuum of passive to assertive to aggressive. I have no doubt I'm on the passive side. I do almost anything to avoid direct conflict. I still resolve problems, but sometimes it takes a lot more effort as I take the indirect route to solve it. When I'm around a lot of guys I feel like the opposite of the alpha male. I think most would laugh if they tried picturing me as an alpha male. That just isn't inherently me. From a more cultural perspective of gender, I'm not really interested in the same things that most other guys are interested in. I'm not into guns, hunting, sports, fishing, cars, tractors, farming, and probably lots of other things they are interested in. I really could care less about what culture thinks I should do. Society can shove its expectations right up its fat ass. LoL. Subjectively and relatively I have more empathy for others. I like cute warm fuzzy animals. I like the small creature comforts. I like being clean and not tasked with hard labor. I also feel that I understand women's emotions a lot better than most guys. But I chalk the last part to being gay and more sensitive. I like being well groomed and wearing nice clothes. It drives me crazy if my fingernails get even a little bit too long. LoL. And even more importantly, there is something deep inside me that just doesn't *feel* like a guy. I don't know what that something is exactly, but it is a big part of who I am.

So after an accounting of how I feel I'm not masculine enough both physically and mentally, how might I expect testosterone to keep me on this side of the fence and change me in a way that keeps me happy? That is the million dollar question. Is it even plausible that it can have a big enough impact to do what I expect it to do? I honestly don't know. I think when I or others try to picture me being a lot more masculine, it brings a smile and a laugh. There is a radical difference between how I see myself and where I would like to be. The easiest and most likely change is that of body hair. From talking to others and through general research, I have little doubt that taking exogenous testosterone will increase the amount of body hair I have. It appears to be fairly universal whether someone wants it or not. That would be a big plus. Additionally, it could increase my overall strength since I lift weights consistently every week. That would be a small benefit, but really wouldn't change myself perception all that much. It's possible over a long time I could gain more lean muscle mass and just more mass in general. That would help quite a bit. I wouldn't feel so tiny and weak relative to other guys. There is a possibility that it could reduce my boyish looks. That would help too, but maybe that prospect also scares me a little. If my face changed in subtle ways that add up to something significant, it would be hard to get use to. If this happens, it wouldn't happen overnight. So it doesn't concern me too much. An increase in testosterone could effect my mind in any number of ways. This is what I care the most about. Physical changes would be nice, but they don't mean much and could make things worse if my mind isn't taken along for the ride. If I do

guy26 (imported) wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:29 am n't somehow feel more like a guy inside, the tr

ial of more testosterone relative to my normal level would be a failure to me. It is by far the most subjective aspect of it all and it is something that will take time to evaluate.

I'm beginning to lose some steam writing all of this in one sitting, but I want to explore one more idea--significantly lowering my testosterone. When I have taken depo provera in the past, what was it that prevented me from continuing to take it and what is it that I fear most? I feared the unknown consequences by taking it unmonitored. It scared me doing it all on my own, in secret, and with virtually no support from others except a few online friends. I feared that if I continued to take it that at some point there would be an incongruity between my ability to perform sexually and my drive to do so. That incongruity is a huge problem for a lot of guys, especially as they get older. It would drive me crazy should that situation arise and knowing that I caused it. I was scared of not having enough intimacy with my other half if I wasn't the one initiating all the time. I was afraid that I would put on weight and become too weak. I was afraid that I would sink into a deep depression even though I never did get depressed while taking depo provera. When I put it all down in writing, obviously I was afraid of a lot. But given all that, I did like it. I felt like me and I felt at peace with myself. There really wasn't any short term things that I didn't like, except for having somewhat less energy. What I feared the most are the long term effects. I probably wouldn't mind staying on the low side for 4 months, immediately tasking testosterone for a few months to make up for any long term changes, and then heading back down to repeat it all over. That might work, but I could never allow that slow natural rise in testosterone to happen again and again. It is painful in a way that I can't describe and it destroys my mood for many months even after it stops. I have no idea what a quick rise in testosterone will do, but I am about ready to find out.

After having poured out my thoughts on the keyboard, I feel better at least for now.

I would love to hear about your fears and concerns before you decided to head down a long term path....

While not medically diagnosed as such, I'd wager a good bit of $$$ on my self-diagnosis of BPD II. What has been serious depression since adolescence presented more episodes of hypomania as I lived through my 30s and 40s, and now into my early 50s. I'm gender-variant MtF, as emotionally and psychologically I've felt more like a woman my entire life.

In these two ways, I'm somewhat similar to you. Where we differ is my recent decision to go in the opposite direction, eliminating testosterone from my life. I've never been happy with any of the effects of testosterone on my body. It distorted my facial features, caused excessive bone growth, a genetic propensity towards higher DHT levels caused male pattern baldness, and being horny all day every day, masturbating once or twice daily just to relieve the stress.

I've been taking anti-androgens and estrogen for over two years now. A year ago I switched from spironolactone (a diuretic) to cyproterone acetate (Androcur, Siterone) because of recurring kidney stones and to obtain an improved anti-androgenic effect. Late last November, I began counseling with my psychiatrist and psychotherapist in order to actively seek orchiectomy. At the same time, I started ethanol injections to permanently shut down my testicles. I've been happy with all of the changes, ever since. The US FDA and Homeland Security's recent efforts to curtail offshore pharmacies means I may have difficulty obtaining cyproterone in the near future, and I dread experiencing the return of any level of testosterone to my life.

I sincerely hope you're pleased with your efforts to stabilize and control your testosterone level. Everyone should be able to decide for themselves what is an acceptable level of sexual and psychological tension present in their lives. I believe you're exceptionally fortunate to have an excellent GP who listens to you. I wish you continued good luck with your treatments.

Hi Caith,

Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like things are progressing in an orderly fashion. I'm really pleased to hear that! If you have been on

Caith721 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:26 pm anti-androgens and estrogen for over two years,

you are well on your way. I'm glad that you are seeking professional help so that you might have an orchiectomy with a qualified surgeon. It's a good thing that others are seeking professional support too.

If you indeed have bipolar type 2, I'm sorry to hear that. It is a real pain in the butt for me. I hope that things are relatively under control for you. I don't take medicine and both my therapist and family doctor feel that it is well under control. I don't think too many people are able to get away from taking medication if they want to lead a normal productive life.

I would hate for offshore pharmacies to be blocked from shipping product into the United States. If they are not controlled substances, I'm not for sure why they would crack down on them. It would increase the difficulties and frustrations that many members on here would face without access to anti-androgens and estrogen.

I hope I'm pleased too with adjusting my testosterone level. I have a feeling that there are going to be some bumps in the road before I find what is right for me. I think the key is to have a lot of patience, persistence, and not to expect a quick fix.

I haven't seen this term used on here before, but on a transgender board, someone described what I'm attempting to do first as... trying to live cisgender.

You might find this link to wikipedia on cisgender interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender . A couple of quotes...

Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook defined "cisgender" as a label for "individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity", complementing "transgender". A more popular term is "gender normative". However, unlike "cisgender", this term suggests that there is a single, agreed-upon system of gender norms.

The word has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis, meaning "to/this the near side" as in the cis-trans distinction in chemistry. In this case, "cis" refers to the alignment of gender identity with assigned gender. There is some controversy as to the appropriateness of the term given its utterly relativistic implications with respect to gender identity (i.e. an attempt to destroy the notion of the normative and replace it with two equally marked relatives).

It is snowing and ridiculously cold outside. I feel emotional. I called and left a message this morning with my family doctor. I hope they get back to me today. For some reason they didn't get call back on Friday when I left a message. I've been increasingly anxious about starting testosterone replacement therapy.

I don't dread going on TRT, but I have a healthy amount of fear. Anxiety has a way of getting to me if I don't face it and reflect on it. At this point I have some fear that somehow my testosterone levels will be too high to try going up on testosterone. It isn't well founded since there really isn't any reason it should be higher compared to 5 years ago, especially after what I did a month ago. What I fear more is that the trial won't be successful and I will need to go with far less testosterone.

Maybe what I fear most is myself and really coming to terms with who I am. Gender identity is such a core component of who you are. In some ways it is even more integral than your sexual identity. I feel it is hard to ask for support from others if you don't have absolute confidence in yourself and don't know the right answer. I feel vulnerable without this absolute confidence. Sometimes there isn't a way to know what is right and we have to go with trial and error to find that answer. So far the people I have opened up to in my real life have been supportive. I appreciate it a lot and it helps.

If there were ever a way to take advantage of the many parallel worlds conjecture, I would love to try out all possibilities and simply choose the one that has the best outcome. If only I had access to that kind of knowledge, I wonder where my life would be right now. Everyone makes mistakes, but I feel I have made more than most.

The price to truly be happy and at peace with myself might be high, but hopefully it is worth it in the end. If this were something simple to overcome, I would have done so a long long time ago. This isn't a problem that I can just go around. It would be like coming across the Grand Canyon and deciding to go around it on foot with no provisions. It isn't practical or feasible. I need to go to the effort, expense, and risk of building a bridge across the canyon, which means that I need to go to the effort, expense, and risk of changing my hormones.

The thing I value the most right now is having a clear mind devoid of mood instability. My mood has actually dramatically improved ever since I seriously started working through this problem. That is a good sign and it gives me some hope for the future.

--------

Okay I feel a bit in shock and I'm not for sure what to think. I got a call back from my doctor's office while I was writing this entry. My testosterone level came back on the high end of normal. I can't believe that. Really? Seriously? Yeah, it was 740. I forgot to ask for the lab range because I was stupid and in shock. Stupidly testosterone results are not standardized and so a number doesn't mean much with out the expected normal range. If 740 was considered the high end of normal, it's possible that the range was something like 241 to 853. But I'd need to call and confirm to be sure. Not that it matters much one way or the other. It doesn't change anything.

I'm just angry, pissed, hurt, and disappointed. That pretty much sums up how I feel. I could throw in hopelessness too, but I refuse to allow myself to think like that. Damn it. Life is unfair. I'm glad that I went to Guatemala 6 months ago. It doesn't diminish how I feel, but it puts things into perspective. Fuck, things could be a lot worse. It doesn't feel like that, but I know it could be a lot worse. As always, I will find a way to be my own rock for stability and support. I always have and I have yet to fail myself.

I have a much harder decision now. Somehow it was an easier decision to try testosterone and raise my levels. Going lower seems a lot less acceptable to society. That has never stopped me in the past, but it just might this time.

I feel like crying. I was really hoping that I could take testosterone and I would... just feel normal. Apparently that would be too much to ask for in life. Yep, I feel shitty and lost. That pretty much describes it. I just don't know. I feel like a loser and fucking stupid. Why can't I be normal? I don't know. I have wanted to be normal nearly all my life.

When I was a kid, I was happy and didn't have any of these deep troubling problems. I grew up on a farm with a family that had little money. My parents struggled financially and we even once went bankrupt. Despite what we didn't have and my parents' concern with money, I was happy and I was like every other kid. I didn't feel abnormal. It wasn't until puberty did I know that things were not right. Initially I could have never told you what was going on. It was the beginning of a confusing mess. Actually between this and later the gay issue, I would describe my teenage years as a total shit storm. Every fiber in my being ached and resonated with pain. I have no surprise in retrospection that I nearly took my life. It was painful beyond all belief.

There has been only one other point in life that has been nearly so painful. Five years ago the denial, secrecy, and chaos finally punched through to the outside. It was a chain reaction of events that led to me getting diagnosed with bipolar. Once the depo provera wore off, I entered rapid cycling for the first time in life. If there is such a thing as hell, that would be involved. It took months for things to resolve and calm back down. The cat was out of the bag and others were aware that something had been going on for a long time.

The angst and turmoil that I felt was immeasurable. It seemed that few could honestly help me. There were really only two things that helped during that time. One was talking to Krister. Even to this day I feel indebted to him and he has my deepest gratitude. And secondly, I journaled. I wrote and wrote and wrote. I have thought about re-reading what I wrote back then. I have attempted to read through it a couple of times, but I never get very far. It brings back a clarity to that past that I just don't want to relive. And I don't feel there is a lot to be gained by it either. Having gone through rapid cycling once more, I don't really need a vivid reminder of it.

I feel like I'm in a paradoxical situation. And I don't really know if I have the strength to solve it. I have felt a deep inner peace pushing my testosterone level much lower, but I don't know if I could stay down there forever. I fear the long term changes and just the unknowns.

Instead of finding relief today, I got punched in the face. It hurts and it sucks. Apparently I was putting more hope in a different outcome than I was aware of.

They say that the grass is always greener on the other side. I call bullshit. That is just something we say to make others feel better. Sometimes it really is greener on the other side. I wish that I could be someone else. Someone that was average... Someone that was ordinary... Somebody that wasn't me. It helps knowing that the likelihood I exist is so infinitesimally small. And that by simply existing I have beat the odds. To be alive... right here... right now.. is worth more than anything. As I take a deep breath and fill my lungs, I recognize that life is the ultimate gift and consequence of our existence. Maybe life really does love variety and there is no way around it. It is the fuel of evolution and what gave rise to our species.

My struggle is far from over. I have no idea what to do. Nothing has changed except my awareness of the situation. I don't know if I really have the strength to own up to this and be the person that is inside me. I can't move backwards and I can't move forwards. I hate the idea of being stuck where I am now.

P.S. Sorry if I used too strong of language.

Nope, not "too strong" at all. Your situation is real, it's powerful, and it's impacting your quality of life. The male body transforms testosterone to estradiol (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC333134/) in the pituitary and hypothalamus glands through a process called aromatization. This has further impact on the other hormones in your body. Only repeated blood tests and detailed reviews by an endocrinologist can tell you for certain exactly what might be happening in your situation.

Continue working with your GP, your therapist, and an endocrinologist. All of them working together may be able to answer your concerns and address your feelings.

Hi Caith,

Thanks for responding. Sometimes I wonder what others are thinking. I know there are far more reading my account about life than are participating in the conversation.

It seems like a good idea to have a full hormone panel done, especially if I am looking at modifying them. I doubt that anything is really off from normal. I suppose having an endocrinologist look at the results is a good idea too. But I find having him read the results and provide an explanation for gender dysphoria to be a bit like reading the tea leaves. I could be wrong. I'm always open to new information and being wrong. I believe strongly in science, but unfortunately there is not a lot of scientific knowledge about the biology of GID. There are some studies that have linked changes in brain morphology between individuals of the same sex where one has GID and the other doesn't. These findings are a little controversial and my variety of GID is practically unheard of in the peer reviewed journals.

It's true that men have a certain amount of estrogen. Generally you can swap the normal ranges for sex hormones between men and women. Women have high amounts of estrogen and low amounts of testosterone. And conversely, men have high amounts of testosterone and low amounts of estrogen. A man without estrogen would have a seriously reduced sex drive. There are probably other side effects of having virtually no estrogen, but I don't know too much about it.

I feel somewhat better today. But, wow, was I in a funk after getting the news yesterday that I can't try testosterone. I started re-reading what I wrote and it made me ill. It is toxic and vile. I have written many things like that in the past and I generally refuse to re-read them. I get little use from re-living the pain. Sometimes I capture my thoughts a little too well for my own good.

A friend that I have known for years tried to be comforting last night and offer advice. He suggested that the normal range doesn't matter too much and even if I'm at the high end of the normal range maybe it is still low for me. He suggested I find a doctor to allow me to go beyond the normal range. I was a little surprised by that suggestion. It really isn't a practical thing. There are reasons not to go beyond normal. Oh sure, you could do it for a few weeks or maybe a few months, but you can't maintain that for a long time. It will create problems. It was interesting to ponder for a moment, even if it was a bad idea.

My doctor's office asked me to call them back if I was interested in proceeding. I left a message this morning for them to call me back with exactly what my doctor is considering prescribing me. I would like to research it further before doing anything. I still have a strong suspicion that he thinks I want to go all the way down to castrate levels, which is a bad idea. Not too many people can tolerate going that low and it's just physically bad for you. It seems most need and want at least some testosterone even if it doesn't quite make it into the normal range.

I doubt there is much information available for my doctor to use in adjusting my testosterone levels down without going overboard. I still have no contrary indication not to believe that going down only somewhat on testosterone is far less straightforward compared to pushing testosterone levels higher. It gave me some confidence to know that he is consulting with another doctor on what I should take. It seems like a completely trial and error endeavor.

I would probably feel initially okay at castrate levels. However at this point, I'm only willing to consider going down to the low end of normal. If that isn't enough to feel right, then that's just too bad.

The desire to walk away from this situation is there. I'm not going to lie. I have been there and done that numerous times. In a way, me trying to live completely as a guy when I don't feel like one inside is akin to guys who are gay and struggle with trying to live the straight life. Maybe they have it harder? There is no way I could sleep with a woman. That is just too repulsive even with sheer will power. LoL

If I walked away from this today and continue living as cisgender, I know I could do it another 6 months or maybe a year. I know I have that much will power. But it bothers me to think what will happen the next time my resolve cracks and crumbles to dust. It is never a pretty sight when it does and it seems to be a worse experience each time it happens. Remember on The Office when Peter is sitting with the hypnotherapist and says that every day of his life is his worst day? Not only is that messed up, but I'm sure at some point in everyone's life we all feel that way.

I wish I was a stronger person. If I was invincible, I could carry this incongruity with me till the day I die. Or even if I didn't have to deal with hypersexuality, I could at least put this problem off longer. And ideally I just wouldn't have this problem at all. But none of that is the case, and we all have to face reality at some point in our lives. Wishful thinking only gets us so far in life.

As it always has been, the ball is in my court. And I need to really decide what I want to do. Do I try to power through this longer with sheer will power? Or do I try going forward and finding out if going lower will work out? That is the question. I don't know. No clue...

I've decided not to change my hormones for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I can resist forever, but I don't have the will power to do go any further right now. I can't crawl back into a shell and do nothing. And I can't use every ounce of my being to suppress it back into a singularity only to explode in a moment of instability. I have to find a way to better live with this problem. That is much easier said then done and it is a tall order. I may never be right until I go one step further, but it's okay.

For now this problem can be pushed further down the road so long as I find a way to deal with the hypersexuality. The best I might be able to hope for at this point is to intentionally destabilize the hypomania when it occurs. Taking anti-depressants for a few days or even a quick start and stop of atypicals can accomplish it. It has worked in the past and it will have to do for the foreseeable future when it is needed. In some twist of fate, making things worse at times may actually be better than the alternative. I can't let this problem explode in my face time and time again.

I still plan on staying around the board. I'm not in denial about this problem and I'm not hiding from it. I've chosen to walk away from who I am and be the person I seem to be on the surface.

Should something change, I'll update this thread. Thanks to everyone that listened to my excessive writing at times. On the off chance that I helped someone better understand themselves, it has been worth sharing my thoughts with you.

You might wonder what changed my mind. My other half opened up to me today. It ended up being a big pep talk to do whatever is necessary to overcome this problem, not to give up, and find an endocrinologist. Instead of giving me strength to go forward, it has given me strength to fight some more against myself another day. This might not make sense, but does life ever make sense?

I once had a friend who was going through a roller coaster of a life somewhat like you.. This person's physician referred them to a specialist. I think it is spelled endocrinoloist. There are a lot of hormones in the body. Each with a specific function, each dependent on others, they all interact. An imbalance in hormones was found. New medication was prescribed a few times and ultimately a solution was found. They finally got off that roller coaster and went into the driver seat of life, got married, got a good job, had no more mental, emotional difficulties. That's about all I can suggest.

Hi nullochis,

If you happen to recall what was wrong with your friend, I'd be happy to know more. I agree that hormones are all important and there is a lot that can go wrong in the human body. Too high or too low thyroid levels can cause mood problems, usually anxiety and depression respectively. Too low of testosterone can cause depression. I wouldn't be surprised if other hormones could affect mood too.

The last couple of months my mood has been pretty stable despite embarking on such intense introspection about myself and my drive toward castration. I'm not for sure I have accomplished much for the amount of effort I have put into it. I understand myself better. And I finally have the words to describe more precisely why I am being driven toward castration. Even though I am no closer to a solution, I have a better understanding and self-awareness. I'm sure that will help some in the future.

It seems like a good idea to seek out an endocrinologist and have him look over all my hormone levels. I will probably wait a few more months for any changes to stabilize that might have been done by the one injection.

P.S. I'm glad that your friend figured things out and it changed his life around.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a delicate balance in the brain and body between (T) testosterone, (E) estradiol, (A) aromatase, (FSH) follicle stimulating hormone, (LH) leutinizing hormone, and (LH-RH) leutinizing hormone - releasing hormone. Genetic factors can cause instability in this delicate balance. When you consider the T/E/A activity takes place

Caith721 (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:51 pm in the pituitary and hypothalamus glands,

you begin to see how far-reaching the effects can be.

As I mentioned before, you've got a GREAT GP who listens to you seriously, and a good therapist. All you're missing is the endocrinologist to help document what's REALLY happening in your body and brain chemistry. Don't pass up this opportunity, especially because you're so close to nailing it down.

Just my two cents, YMMV, yadda, yadda . . . and as always, GOOD LUCK!!

I had to take a break from writing for a while. My self reflection and analysis was bordering on excess. It was beginning to drive me crazy and I was becoming frustrated. It was good that I pushed my thoughts as far as I could go with them. I had never looked at this issue with such depth and clarity. Normally I tried to repress it and deal with the aftermath that it creates when I also become hypersexual.

It is in my nature to take things to the extreme. Somehow the ordinary is never enough. This probably has more to do with bipolar than anything. It could be part of my personality too. Who knows?

Anyway, my family doctor's office finally called back. My family doctor has taken a while to get back to me because he was consulting with a urologist here in town. This instills more confidence for me. I was beginning to have second thoughts about my decision to seek out help from my general practitioner as opposed to a urologist. And I was wrong about my family doctor misunderstanding my desire to not go ALL the way down, but to find a more comfortable hormone level. I made a bad assumption when I heard GnRH agonist. I thought you could only really go all the way down with them, but I guess not.

I had really shutdown considering lowering my testosterone level because I was frustrated and didn't want to think about it for one more second. Did the desire go away? No. It seems to be a constant and follows me around in life like a lost puppy.

The two options he gave me are Synarel (Nafarelin) and Lupron. Both are GnRH agonists. The Synarel is a nasal spray and the Lupron is injected daily subcutaneously (just under the skin). The Lupron also comes in a longer lasting monthly intermuscular injection. But that is out of question for right now. My doctor wants something that can be more quickly adjusted. And that seems reasonable from my perspective.

Price pretty much follows however much you end up using on a daily basis. The retail price of Synarel is VERY pricey. Locally the price could be as much as $1,034/month! That is completely unreasonable unless insurance is going to pay for the vast majority of it. Lupron has a generic available, which I was unaware of until today. It's called leuprolide acetate. Lupron as a daily injection could cost as much as $552/month, but the generic is only $126/month.

If you are searching around for more information, the daily injections come as 14 day kits. The Lupron can be found as Lupron 5mg/ml kit. The Leuprolide acetate can be found as leuprolide acetate kit 1mg/0.2ml .

I still have no idea whether insurance is willing to cover these options under GID. Considering the issues with coverage and potential problems, I'm not willing to try anything other than the leuprolide acetate. It is obviously still expensive, but not ridiculous or unaffordable in my case.

There seems to be little anecdotal experience on the archive with GnRH agonists. I think expense has probably been the primary deterrent to others even considering it.

I'll give my doctor a call back and just see where things go.

Still following your thread. Good luck with the GnRH treatment, and I hope everything goes well for you.

My doctor went ahead and prescribed the leuprolide acetate. Each injection is only 0.2mL and has 1mg of active medicine. That is really REALLY small. What's interesting is that he prescribed .1mg/day which means that I would only take 0.02mL! That is so low in volume the pharmacist has no idea how to accurately measure it out and repackage it. So he is going to call tomorrow and find out if it was a mistake or not. Since they don't have it in stock I won't have it at the earliest until Monday. I'm not in a hurry anyway, so we'll see what happens. The only thing I could see doing is putting it all together. Then diluting it with sterile water and repackaging it, but who knows.

The pharmacist is going to let me know what they find out tomorrow.

I don't recall my friend's condition or actual treatment.

There is something else you might try.

Light therapy.

During the winter lack of natural sunlight can cause some people extremely severe mental upset by amplifying beyond reason our normal every day thoughts, fears, stresses. They are special lights. They may be available locally or you might need to order via internet.

In the mean time, do some play acting and pretend you are someone who is successful with no pressing issues. Just pretend for a little while, once a day, or several times a day. It's amazing sometimes how we can trick ourselves into a new us. It's something like stuttering; if a stuttering person can not hear themselves talking, they do not stutter.

PS: By the by, once I finally achieved a permanent low testosterone level, my constant craving and desire to be castrated has subsided. I now think about life and living and not about being castrated. It can be a long and windy road to get to that point and one must make sure well in advance that the destination is truly what is desired for it is a one way road.

Hi nullorchis,

What you are referring to is called seasonal affective disorder. It is abbreviated as SAD. It is a form of depression brought on by changes in exposure to light. Depression can certainly bring on a form of rumination for some people, but that is not my problem. I have had plenty of depression in my life and it isn't something that I'm currently suffering from. Actually it has been quite a while since I've had to deal with it for any long period of time. Light therapy can be helpful for those with seasonal affective disorder during the winter months.

My core problem with mood is having bipolar. It is a complicated beast especially since I don't tolerate the medication for it. No amount of pretending makes it better. Self awareness if my primary weapon against it. Ignoring it tends to be disastrous.

What you are suggesting is a form of "pull yourself up by the bootstraps." It doesn't tend to work for many people.

I'm glad that you feel much better adjusted after castration.

My local pharmacy called me today to let me know what was going on with the prescription for leuprolide acetate. My doctor had made a mistake in the decimal place. I hope that doesn't happen to others! That could be a bad thing for other kinds of medicine, especially if they went the other way and it was for too much! Anyway, now that that is cleared up, they were unable to find another pharmacy in town that carries the leuprolide acetate. I'm not surprised, very few people take this medication. They were also unable to contact the manufacture today. They will try again next week. Unfortunately, they didn't seem very confident on fulfilling this prescription quickly. They said they will try every week to get it in. I take it that it will take on the order of a month or more to get it. I will be surprised if it comes in any quicker. LoL. I'm patient, so it isn't that big of deal.

guy26 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:21 am Today I have been having self doubts about my core identity. I'm not entirely for sure why. I find it more distressing that I can't be happy with who I am. It seems like such a simple task in life and one that would grow easier, not harder over time.

Humans are designed to be dissatisfied. This is due to evolution. From an evolutionary point of view, the most successful being is one that expands its territory and most inventive. If you think about it, the reason you explore new territory is because you are dissatisfied with where you are. And the reason you invent things is because you are dissatisfied with what you have.

We (especially West Coast North Americans) are the descendents of explorers who descended from explorers who descended from explorers. For example, my family came to North America in the 1600s and then kept moving around -- to Mid-West, then Gold Rush, then Mexico, then Canada, then California again. This means my family has been perennially dissatisfied, and it is in my genes.

I'm sure there have been many content individuals, but they have been overrun by the dissatisfied explorers with technology.

Anyway, my point is that it is our human nature to be dissatisfied. Even the people who are rich, famous and able to bang any chick they want seem to still be greedy and power hungry. Look at Gaddafi trying to hold power, or Charlie Sheen and his current break-down.

So it is not happiness that you need to seek, but rather what Buddhists call "equinamity". Basically, it means that you have perspective and accept the dissatisfaction and the suffering of life. You instead just become interested in the process of life, and you are able to observe yourself through all your travails.

Your quest for "happiness" is not as easy as you think it is -- as evidenced by your difficulty in achieving it. Just stop seeking happiness, and instead get interested in life in all its ups and downs.

guy26 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:21 am You could suggest that I'm having pity for myself and asking, "why me?" Maybe that's the case, but it seems deeper than that.

You've hit the nail on the head. Our fundamental dissatisfaction manifests itself as self-pity. It is "deep" and also silly. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and replace the self-pity with pure interest in awareness.

guy26 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:21 am For a long time I have felt that my self identity shifts just slightly from time to time.

Don't worry about that. Just watch it with interest and let your "identity" flow and evolve naturally.

Sorry for getting all philosophical, but it seemed that your posts are reaching out for some deeper answer.

Anyway, my point is that you're going in the wrong direction worrying about "happiness" and "identity". Instead, you're an ever-changing awareness that is fundamentally dissatisfied but is still on an amazing, interesting journey.

Don't apologize SplitDik. I appreciate the thoughtful and philosophical reply. It means a lot to me that you would take the time to think so deeply about my situation. Your response is entirely relevant to my situation and it is something that I need to give more thought to.

I have struggled for years on even trying to pin down on what it means to be happy. It is such a simple concept on the surface. My changes in mood have often made me question the very essence of happiness. I tend to cast feelings and emotions into a dichotomy of legitimate and illegitimate feelings. For instance, euphoric mania has to be the most pleasurable and happy moments that I have ever had in life. Nothing else comes measurable close to it, let alone exceeding it. It is well beyond normal and it has nothing to do with reality. I tend to think of it as the essence of happiness and joy. It is a limitless exuberance and energy. For these moments of euphoric mania, I classify them as illegitimate. Ultimately designating feelings as legitimate or illegitimate may serve no other purpose than to better help me respond to the irrational chaos that I feel at times.

My struggles in life have caused me to reject Christianity and a lot of the surrounding philosophy. It doesn't work for me and I find it somewhat destructive for my own situation.

The Buddist perspective has a strong appeal. It sounds somewhat similar to my own self developed philosophy, which also draws upon existentialist thought to a degree. I find that life may have no ultimate meaning, and yet life itself gives rise to meaning.

And yeah, my posts were reaching out for something deeper. My struggle with bipolar and identity has not been an easy one.

As I approach starting a GnRH agonist, I have been questioning my motives even more. And I have been looking even more critically at them. I want to know that I am acting rationally and reasonably. It isn't that this is an undoable proposition. I can quit at any time and as long as I don't go past a certain length of time, the likelihood of permanent changes isn't all that high. I've lowered my testosterone with depo prover twice, so I have an idea of where I'm going. The larger issue is the rapid cycling that I'm risking by going down this road. It is a hell that few understand and I don't really want to invite it back.

For the last few days I have had doubts and wondered whether I have just been making shit up for the last couple of months. My desire to start the GnRH agonist over the last few days has had to do with an uptick in my libido. And this increase is beginning to drive me crazy.

However, I can't really imagine how anyone could make up the amount of crap that I have written about in the last couple of months. I can't imagine how I could come up with that level of detail if it were some kind of self dilution.

I have begun to wonder if the reasons for my drive toward castration is really all that static over time. Maybe sometimes it has a lot more to do with hypersexuality and almost nothing to do with identity issues. And other times it may have a lot to do with identity and almost nothing to do with being uncomfortable with an elevated libido. And if that is the case, it makes me a little uncomfortable with moving forward with it. It seems a little wishy washy even by my own standards. Is either really an invalid reason to change my hormone levels? Maybe. I don't know.

Maybe who I am is in constant flux at a deeper level. Part of it may simply have to do with being bipolar. I can accept that even if it is a little disconcerting. I agree that life is all about the journey. Introspectively, I find my life interesting alright. LoL. I have done and felt many things others around me never have and never will. I don't think this makes me better than them, but it may make my life more rich and ultimately fulfilling before I die.

Do you have a suggestion for what I could read to better understand equanimity?

guy26 you're really psychoanalyzing yourself, which isn't a bad thing, but you can over do it. It's a Freudian method of therapy, maybe you didn't realize it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/psychoanalyzing

I've tried to do the same thing for years, but after I was castrated. Castration became such a compulsion for me I couldn't stop myself, I was mentally & emotionally driven to have it done. I never considered myself hypersexual, but I did do a lot of cutting before I was castrated, specifically to my genitals. Did I hate them? No, but I think I was frustrated sexually and cutting gave me some sort of release other than orgasm. I've yet to really understand or know why in my mind I had to be castrated, but I was and I am now a eunuch. Sometimes I think about becoming a nullo but the compulsion to remove my penis isn't near as strong as my compulsion to be castrated. It's been an interesting journey, I think it would make a good movie, but who would make it?

How true Hash,

The drive to be castrated is very strong and it leads to self abuse, it did with me. It was my every thought my life wrapped around the thought of being castrated, when I was walking down the hall after being castrated by Dr Kimmel, I remember well the thought I had, "I am finally complete".

From that day to now, those thought and actions of self abuse or to cut off any other part of my body are gone.

I am finally at peace with myself.

River