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Puberty changes most males more in their minds and bodies and more publically noticably than puberty in most females.

A castrated male even gets gynocomastia and other changes usually considered to be more female. A female with her gonads removed does not experience masculinization the way a castrated male has feminization after losing his testosterone makers.

JessicaH (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:53 pm It's funny that women have their ovaries removed all the time and no one ever thought there needed to be a term to call them. Does there need to be a noun for a male with no balls?

I think this is partly due to the fact that safely castrating women is a more recent invention, so there are not historical examples of DFAB castrates like there are of eunuchs. Even in modern society, it's simple for uneducated folks to joke about chopping phalluses off despite lacking any knowledge of internal anatomy.

Part of the reason I like the noun 'castrate' is that it is gender neutral. However, I have stumbled across anecdotes of 'female-to-eunuch' individuals on the internet, and I have noticed that trans individuals in general sometimes do not take kindly to association with their natal anatomy, so perhaps some FtE individuals might prefer the term 'eunuch.'

JessicaH (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:53 pm It's funny that women have their ovaries removed all the time and no one ever thought there needed to be a term to call them. Does there need to be a noun for a male with no balls?

I could be mistaken, but the term "Barren" usually covers women unable to conceive. Eunuchs and Barren have the inability to make children in common. Adoption is their only answer.

We are talking about the WPATH Standards of Care, as far as I understood. I guess what is needed is a medical term, as neutral as possible, without social connotations etc. The least problematic terms are usually descriptive terms. This would mean in this case something like "state after total gonadectomy". So we are talking abopout "people seeking or having undergone total gonadectomy". That would be an inclusive term for people of all genders.

Beyond that, one is likely to run into a disagreement on terms or at least into a wide field of different terms, definitions and views. I myself use the umbrella term non-binary, together witth agender (or agenderflux) and other terms for self-description. That is a very individual thing. But this has a much wider scope, it opens the field of gender and gender identities, and goes far beyound a "simple" anatomical description. The current version of the SoC (V 7) uses the umbrella term "gender nonconforming people" and will most likely be amended in the upcoming version.

Perhaps the OP could be a bit more specific about the content and aim of the text passages that are proposed for the next version of the SoC. The SoC try to be as inclusive as possible, and try not to be too specific for special cases, since that would mean narrowing down the proposed options and may lead to unwanted or unnecessary constraints in methods derived from the SoC in the medical systems of different countries (e.g. the history in the care for "transsexual" people and of the according law in Germany).

That is a description not a noun like eunuch.

My recommendation was "eunuch", with a side note stating that while the vast majority are o.k. with the word eunuch, it's important at the first therapist meeting (or during intake) to have the patient self-identify how they view themselves for this purpose.

JessicaH (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:11 am That is a description not a noun like eunuch.

Indeed, that is not a short noun. Please consider my posting non-existent.

For a more thorough discussion of this topic, if desirable, has anybody read or even participated in the formulation of the current WPATH SoC?

kastranja (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:46 pm Indeed, that is not a short noun. Please consider my posting non-existent.

For a more thorough discussion of this topic, if desirable, has anybody read or even participated in the formulation of the current WPATH SoC?

Not entirely sure, but I believe JessicaH was referring to "Barren" as mentioned by Eunuchorn. (I love the name Eunuchorn by the way. Maybe that can be the noun. We can all be eunuchorns.)