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kristoff wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:22 am As a general rule, I believe that anyone who has reached the age of majority should be able to do as he / she pleases....

I think it is a good thing that younger folks are discovering what they need and acting on it earlier. My only wish, aside from attaining what many find necessary, is that thorough thought and introspection be done first, before action.

I agree with Kristoff, and want to emphasize his critical point. Prior to any legitimate surgeon removing a functioning body part s/he would need assurance that the patient knows exactly what he is getting into. This requires a few counseling sessions with a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist who is willing to accept castration as a legitimate possibility (leaving out the majority of those professionals). The individual needs to work though the reasons WHY he wants castration and be able to convince a professional that the reason(s) are valid. Certainly some are. (See below)

As far back as the mid-1940s, Dr. D.O. Cauldwell, M.D, Sc.D. wrote that castration ought to be readily available for those who seek it. Cauldwell was the first to clearly distinguish between physiological sex and psychological gender and the first to use the term "transsexual" in its modern meaning of someone who desired a change of sex.

The full text of his 1947 pamphlet Effects of Castration on Men and Women is on the Non-Fiction Articles board, though it's been badly scrambled by all of the system crashes since its original posting. I need to either re

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:19 pm -post it or completely edit it to clean it up.

An older guy can always get castrated, after having experienced all of being virile, having biological children, and all the other testosterone-filled "joys....

Unless you are actually doing criminal things (pedophile, rapist, etc.) there is nothing really lost in waiting to go through with it, after being totally sure of what you are doing. No matter how intense the urge to get castrated seems to you, there isn't usually a real urgency to get it done

and waiting can only help avoid real regret.

Here, I disagree with SplitDik. There are valid reasons why castration (or, at least hormone blockers) need to be available to some before puberty.

While there are many different reasons for wanting castration (or penectomy) expressed here on the Eunuch Archive, I see two, which really deserve immediate consideration and help from both counselors and physicians.

For those with BIID who have not yet gone completely through puberty, they need assurance that surgery will be available at the right time. They want to be male, just not with those offensive parts attached. Those parts provide more than just testosterone and should probably be kept until about age 25 when puberty is completely finished. While they don't want the parts, they want the results that the parts will bring. Since they want to be male, they need to bank sperm in case they later want to be a parent.

For those with Male-to-Eunuch gender dysphoria, where they do not want to be male, but do not want to be female either, being forced to go through the wrong puberty (or puberty at all) can be devastating. They need hormone blockers starting at about age 12 or 13 and assurances that, if they are still certain of their desires, surgery will be available once they reach legal adulthood. (In some places those with the standard binary MtF or FtM can get surgery as young as 16. Maybe some day it will also be available for those who can demonstrate that they are MtE as well.)

There are now a number of counselors and physicians who will prescribe hormone blockers to MtF or FtM individuals to prevent an unwanted puberty. I know of only one in the United States who has felt comfortable prescribing hormone blockers to a 12 year-old MtE boy.

Progress is being made, though far too slowly.

JesusA wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:27 am Here, I disagree with SplitDik. There are valid reasons why castration (or, at least hormone blockers) need to be available to some before puberty.

While there are many different reasons for wanting castration (or penectomy) expressed here on the Eunuch Archive, I see two, which really deserve immediate consideration and help from both counselors and physicians.

For those with BIID who have not yet gone completely through puberty, they need assurance that surgery will be available at the right time. They want to be male, just not with those offensive parts attached. Those parts provide more than just testosterone and should probably be kept until about age 25 when puberty is completely finished. While they don't want the parts, they want the results that the parts will bring. Since they want to be male, they need to bank sperm in case they later want to be a parent.

For those with Male-to-Eunuch gender dysphoria, where they do not want to be male, but do not want to be female either, being forced to go through the wrong puberty (or puberty at all) can be devastating. They need hormone blockers starting at about age 12 or 13 and assurances that, if they are still certain of their desires, surgery will be available once they reach legal adulthood. (In some places those with the standard binary MtF or FtM can get surgery as young as 16. Maybe some day it will also be available for those who can demonstrate that they are MtE as well.)

There are now a number of counselors and physicians who will prescribe hormone blockers to MtF or FtM individuals to prevent an unwanted puberty. I know of only one in the United States who has felt comfortable prescribing hormone blockers to a 12 year-old MtE boy.

Progress is being made, though far too slowly.

I agree with anyone seeking castration due gender identity should be transitioned as early as possible, but I think this thread was more about other castrations. I was responding to the context of the original post which was "

JustAGuy (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:19 am Okay, what do you all think the youngest a guy should be before he can be legally castrated for reasons other than medical reason? Like if he wants to be castrated at a young age do you think the boy should be allowed to have it done?

"

No. He doesn't know what he's losing, even if he thinks he does.

Castration fantasies can be just a phase.

I agree with justjustin. It certainly CAN be a passing fancy. That is why there needs to be more education with doctors and psychologists about the subject, as well as parents and guardians need to be educated.

On a lot of other sites I am on, a lot of new parents actually believe that if they have their infant son circumcised, that it will 100% prevent cancer later in life (all forms) and is as effective at preventing the spread of AIDS as condoms. I actually had one new parent tell me they had their son circumcised because she doesn't want her baby to suffer from being gay! She truly believed that if she let her child keep his foreskin, that he would immediately become homosexual. (What the F**k?)

It is the adults that are not educated about these things. They are the ones that need to understand and recognize that not all children are the same. Not all of our brains are wired in the same way.

Can a castration fixation be a passing notion? Yes. Can it be a persistent condition like BIID, or gender dysmorphia? Absolutely.

Science is slowly coming to understand that some children really are born in the wrong body. MtF Transexuals and FtM Transexuals are making headway. However there is also the MtE Transexuals who simply do not view themselves in such a binary way.

I know that for the vast majority of children these issues will never come up. Further, for those where this issue does arise, a great number will surely grow out of the notion. That does leave a small number of individuals where castration may in fact be the more desirable outcome.

It may be very rare, but as I have come to understand, there are always exceptions to every rule. Some children may in fact be better off if they are castrated in childhood. They may well be able to understand the consequences, just as an adult can. They may well experience a fuller life, and be more comfortable with themselves as people.

I will never advocate that childhood castration should become common. I would rebel against any society that made such a practice common. Though I write about such worlds in my fiction, the reality would be horrific. My writing about such worlds is meant to be taken along the lines of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal". My stories are meant to unsettle the reader, by facing a reality that must be prevented.

No one here thinks the world would benefit by castrating children against their will. No one thinks that just because a child walks into a doctor's office and asks to have his balls off, that the doctor should immediately comply. Instead, the question is, how much can a child really know their own mind and body? Can a child ever make that decision, and have it taken seriously?

My answer is, sometimes. Some children can, and some should. I would expect that number to be incredibly small, but I must recognize that it nonetheless exists.

The key answer to this dilemma is that should the question arise with a child, the adults involved should seek the education to understand. They should probe the question more deeply, and with an open mind. Always they should proceed with caution. Wherever possible, they should not proceed where other, reversible options are available. The effects of puberty inhibiting drugs are reversible. The effects of surgical castration are not.

Interesting articles on ealier puberty in boys just incase you missed it.

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/10/earlier ... oys_j.html

Earlier puberty seen in boys, just like in girls

By The Associated Press Press-Register

on October 22, 2012 at 3:32 AM, updated October 22, 2012 at 3:33 AM

Email | PrintBrought to you by

CHICAGO - When it comes to the birds and the bees, some parents may want to have that talk with their boys a little sooner than they expected.

Researchers have found signs of puberty in American boys up to two years earlier than previously reported — age 9 on average for blacks, 10 for whites and Hispanics. Other studies have suggested that girls, too, are entering puberty younger.

Why is this happening? Theories range from higher levels of obesity and inactivity to chemicals in food and water, all of which might interfere with normal hormone production. But those are just theories, and they remain unproven.

Doctors say earlier puberty is not necessarily cause for concern. And some experts question whether the trend is even real.

Dr. William Adelman, an adolescent medicine specialist in the Baltimore area, says the new research is the first to find early, strong physical evidence that boys are maturing earlier. But he added that the study still isn't proof and said it raises a lot of questions.

Earlier research based on 20-year-old national data also suggested a trend toward early puberty in boys, but it was based on less rigorous information. The new study involved testes measurements in more than 4,000 boys. Enlargement of testes is generally the earliest sign of puberty in boys.

The study was published online Saturday in Pediatrics to coincide with the American Academy of Pediatrics' national conference in New Orleans.

Dr. Neerav Desai, an adolescent medicine specialist at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, said he's seen a subtle trend toward slightly earlier puberty in boys. He said it's important for parents and doctors to be aware so they can help children emotionally prepare for the changes that come with puberty.

Doctors generally consider puberty early if it begins before age 8 in girls and before age 9 in boys.

Boys are more likely than girls to have an underlying physical cause for early puberty. But it's likely that most, if not all, of the boys in the study were free of any conditions that might explain the results, said lead author Marcia Herman-Giddens, a researcher at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill.

Problems such as thyroid abnormalities and brain tumors have been linked to early puberty. But boys with chronic medical conditions or who were using medicines that could affect puberty were excluded from the research.

In girls, early puberty has been linked with increased chances for developing breast cancer, but whether it poses health risks for boys is uncertain. Some scientists think early testes development may increase the risk for testicular cancer, but a recent research analysis found no such link.

"If it's true that boys are starting puberty younger, it's not clear that means anything negative or has any implications for long-term," said Adelman, a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics' committee on adolescence.

For the new study, researchers recruited pediatricians in 41 states who participate in the academy's office-based research network. Doctors asked parents and boys aged 6 to 16 to take part during regular checkups. The visits took place between 2005 and 2010.

Half of the boys were white. The rest were almost evenly divided among blacks and Hispanics.

On average, white boys started puberty at age 10, a year and a half earlier than what has long been considered the normal average. For black boys, the average age of 9 was about two years earlier than in previous research. Among Hispanics, age 10 was similar to previous research that only involved Mexican-American boys. The new study included boys from other Hispanic backgrounds.

Testes enlargement was seen at age 6 in 9 percent of white boys, almost 20 percent of blacks and 7 percent of Hispanics.

Pubic hair growth, another early sign of puberty, started about a year after testes enlargement in all groups but still earlier than previously thought.

In girls, breast development is the first sign, and recent research suggested that it starts at age 7 in about 10 percent of white girls, 23 percent of blacks and 15 percent of Hispanics. That's substantially higher than rates reported more than a decade ago.

But some experts have questioned methods used in studies in girls, noting that the age when girls start menstruating has not changed much and remains around age 12 on average.

Dr. Dianne Deplewski, a pediatric endocrinologist at the University of Chicago, has not seen any increase in boys referred to her for signs of early puberty. She said it's possible that the new study results were skewed by families who brought their boys to the doctor because they already had concerns about their health.

The study had other limitations. Testes were measured just once, and doctors weren't randomly recruited but volunteered to participate. That means it's possible that those with early maturing patients were overly represented, but Herman-Giddens said it's unlikely boys in the study were different from those in the general U.S. population.

She said the research methods weren't perfect but that they're the best to date. She also stressed that the results shouldn't be used to establish a "new normal" for the start of puberty in boys.

"Just because this is happening doesn't mean this is normal or healthy," the researcher said.

I started thinking about my earlier post on men under 25 who were castrated. Actually there are 4 who regret their decision, another one who seems to be no longer eunuch identified and one who is very public and happy about his eunuch status and has given interviews. So about 5 out of the six that I know either regret or de-identitify as eunuchs. In contrast I cannot think of a single case of anyone over 45 who has deep regrets.

Hi, been a while since posting, as have been very busy with new job etc but thought I'd weigh in with my 2pence. I was castrated nearly 6 months ago, aged 25 for BIID reasons. Am on 3-monthly nebido shots. The shots work well, I don't feel any different to before. The offensive parts are gone, and I'm getting on with my life. I don't think about the fact that I'm a eunuch that often, except when a guy points it out to me mid-coitus when he's searching for my balls I'm me, a young professional now living in London, holding down a job, dating a guy who I like, and in general enjoying life. Since castration, my interest in it, and in genital mods has by and large dissapeared. I don't regret the decision at all, and would do the same again, but I've stopped thinking about it

Milkman (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:21 am . In contrast I cannot think of a single case of anyone over 45 who has deep regrets.

Does that include possibly regretting that they waited 45+ years of their life?

but i remember, that my desire toloose my nuts is great so long i can think!

As a little boy i tyed and squeezed my little nuts, already between stones aso.

it never will go out of my brain, until its done some days...

There are a few great posts here.

And in my mind a few trully sceary one`s.

The way i see it. Some have fantasies about castration. they jerk of to it.

The ide it self. Have to do with the forbiden. And also about look, and being forced(often)

For this people a castration in real. will destroy them. Its the fantasi it self thats the trigger.

Others know in early age. that they whant them gone! here we talk about a totaly different segment. and a thing that shoud be adressed early.

Tru talk with parents,doctor and generaly other that have gone tru a castration, for same or simulare reason.

As i see it No one shoud be Castrated before they are finished with there develupment. Not so much body.

But more there brain, We humans use a long time to, be able to see the consequenses of our actions.

Thats why 14-20 year old people. make a lot of bad desisions.

And before you can trully see and understand, what you are in for. You shoud never be aloed to be castrated.

But there are also a few that even from child`s age know they whant them gone(and many that whant sex changes operations.)

Here it shoud be up to the kid-parents.doctor. to do it at a time where it is best for the child.

Feelings like that will not changes,when they get older. Even if they cant see the consequense behind the action.

So for me as a ground rule. finished development of the brain. Able to thing and see the conections and the consequenses. (age 20-22)

Trancgender or simulare things. depending on the family and there doctor.(but at least pre puperty(11-12)

Self hurting kids. That will kill them self to get it off. Doctor-talk family or friends(11-12)

Thats my belive at least.

No, humlind, i never had told with anyone about my sex desires and fantasies.

this want happen! Thtats a thing with your self. and no doc would had end this fantasies. they are burned in our brain and fantasie. the talking at the psychatrist cant change the predisposition! only the castartion itself, because it takes away our sexdrive.

Unless there are medical reasons such as cancer or accident / injury I believe before a person voluntarily accepts being castrates he should live as a full man for as long as he can tolerate that situation .... this includes breeding, marrying a women and other wise functioning as a man .... when he reaches the age of 45 or so (depending on the person) he can have his balls removed...and I believe that process should be an easy one unlike today.

rushsite (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:30 pm Unless there are medical reasons such as cancer or accident / injury I believe before a person voluntarily accepts being castrates he should live as a full man for as long as he can tolerate that situation .... this includes breeding, marrying a women and other wise functioning as a man .... when he reaches the age of 45 or so (depending on the person) he can have his balls removed...and I believe that process should be an easy one unlike today.

Nobody should be forced to live in pain. How do you mean by "tolerate"?

A few people on this thread seem to think their situation was more valid than others but you're a lot younger than the age you've set?

~Tiamat~ (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:42 pm Nobody should be forced to live in pain. How do you mean by "tolerate"?

A few people on this thread seem to think their situation was more valid than others but you're a lot younger than the age you've set?

The point is this has to case by case decision. Also it has to be a private decision not by law just between the doctor and patent.

Since castration is irreversible, and a big step, people should be

Paolo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:18 am old enough to make an informed decision

first. Young people who are still going through the physical, intellectual, and emotional processes of maturation ought not do something they could come to regret. Legally, there's no obstacle once someone reaches the age of majority, but it would be unwise to act before understanding your mature identity. Sex aside, there are so many changes people undergo in their teens and even their twenties, changes transforming their lives, that haste is ill advised. I'm 62 now, and I well remember being in pain about many things in my twenties, which were a sort of post-adolescence. Had I made irreversible decisions at 25 or 28, I'd have done myself terrible harm. Patience will help you, even if it doesn't feel that way today.

rushsite (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:30 pm Unless there are medical reasons such as cancer or accident / injury I believe before a person voluntarily accepts being castrates he should live as a full man for as long as he can tolerate that situation .... this includes breeding, marrying a women and other wise functioning as a man .... when he reaches the age of 45 or so (depending on the person) he can have his balls removed...and I believe that process should be an easy one unlike today.

And if a person cannot produce sperm for breeding, cannot properly consumate a marriage, does not grow a beard, etc., is not mature enough to be desireable for women to want to date them, then does this person need to wait until 45 years old and be forced to take testosterone in order to grow a beard and a few other superficialities just so that they can finally be able to remove those small useless testicles that could never mature???

We need to consider that there really IS a "third" gender category that are neither technically full men nor women either. Most cultures in the world have understood this much.

I recently went to a PFLAG meeting where several transgendered young people told of their journeys along with there parents.

In the urban areas some kids started the transition before Puberty.

They were fortunate to have enlightened parents that got them the counseling and professional help young enough that they weren't subject to puberty that they didnt want. They went through the puberty they did want. The two teenage girls were shapely and good looking, and. Confident in themselves.

The one teenage boy was very well muscled. His dad acted proud of his new work out buddy.

The one kid from a small rural town was there with his mom.

He had gone through puberty as a boy. His mother was afraid for his safety.

The other parents of transsexuals agreed that it was a life long decission, but to force him through puberty as a boy gave him a lifelong bone structure that would make his transition much more difficult.

I'm glad to see that some parents realize the consequences of not acting in their child's behalf when It's needed, loving and being attentive enough to recognize problems.