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I was talking to a doctor over the weekend about doing castration.I was told and I quote......

The reason I (we) require a letter from a therapist is that by removing the testicles we will effectively end your ability to have sex/orgasm in the future. This can be a major source of depression and unhappiness for men that do not identify as female identity as they watch their sexual relationships and even their ability to masturbate disappear.....

I must be different...I never had anything disappear except some libido which I didn't notice very much.

I think there needs to be a study of eunuchs to see exactly what does occur after castration.I don't think the medical community has a clue.

Any eunuchs here depressed or unhappy and non functional.??

That is indeed a difficult question to answer.

We have had a fair number of eunuchs who come out of the procedure more happy, more well-balanced than they ever were while they had their testes. We have also had a fair number who have gone through at least a temporary bout of depression while their bodies adjust. Sadly, I can think of a handful of cases where their depression has lasted longer than any 'adjustment period' could account for. There has also been at least one case I know of where the depression was severe enough for the person to take their own life.

I completely agree that this is an area that needs a lot more study, although I am unsure as to how exactly to study such an experience. Voluntary eunuchs may be more common than it would seem on this board, but even if every last one within the US were to be tapped, I'm not sure that would represent a large enough sample size to adequately study without bias. I'm not even sure how one would go about recruiting a large enough group for such research.

I can say that I am a eunuch who does suffer from depression. That is no secret, and definitely not a surprise to anyone who knows me. I do not claim, nor have I ever claimed, that depression is a certainty once a person has been castrated, but it is most definitely something to keep an eye out for. I feel that because of the potential severe depression carries, it is one of the biggest risks a new eunuch faces.

Personally I have absolutely no objections to requiring a therapist letter certifying that the prospective eunuch is fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and is of sound mind in general. I would wholeheartedly support a version of the HBSOC, modified to our relatively unique situation. Unfortunately, the major flaw in such a plan rests among the psychologists/psychiatrists themselves, who seem to immediately label anyone seeking such a transition as unbalanced, merely because they wish to become eunuchs.

If (big if) you can find one of the few psychologists who is open to exploring M2E as a valid option, I wholeheartedly encourage you to open up to them, and hopefully one day soon the entire community will recognize that transition as a valid option for the many people in the world who wish to pursue such a goal.

I'd like to briefly sidetrack to applaud the works of both Jesus and Dr. Wassersug (board name escapes me, if he has one) for their papers, presentations, and other work regarding the voluntary eunuch community. Their work represents one of the best hopes of the EA for having the medical community at large recognize our status, and educating the medical powers-that-be about our situation.

I think that with certain males the removal of testosterone throws other chemical systems in the body into disarray. Perhaps serotonin in the brain or some such chemical is over produced due to the "imbalance" created by the removal of the testosterone. It's just my personal theory as the medical community does not seem to care enough to do any studies. I personally have not experienced the chronic form of depression associated with castration but have had episodes of the acute form. Overall I am one of the extremely happy eunuchs.

Saturday I had a major depression the likes of which I have not had in years. It was triggered by a bad dream of the past. I got through it safely and feel better today. Having not been depressed in a long while it caught me off guard. Post castration depression is rare for me but while under the influence of T I struggled with depression.

The majority of time I would have to say that my emotions are appropriate for what is happening around me. My mother passed away recently and I was very sad. When I am doing something I enjoy I am happy. If I sit around and think too much about life I can feel sorry for myself. I find that for the most times I can redirect my emotions to be positive. Something I was not able to do with T in my system.

So yes I am a happy eunuch with less depression in my life. I am now more comfortable with myself and my place in the world. I have found me.

The question of depression is a very important one, and one that cannot yet be answered properly. Certainly depression is very common among prostate cancer eunuchs. The kind of eunuchs that any physician would be most familiar with. For too many men, their entire sense of self and of masculinity is tied up in their testicles. Even though for PCa patients, castration is done to save their lives (or, at least, to lengthen them), many would rather die than be castrated.

For voluntary eunuchs, the situation is quite different. They are seeking to lose their testicles for any of a variety of reasons. Their sense of self-worth does not require having them.

The Eunuch Archive survey did ask questions about depression among those voluntary eunuchs who took it. What we found was that a slightly lower percentage were depressed after castration than before. Unfortunately, the design of the survey was such that we couldn't track to see whether it was the same or different people who were depressed before and after.

A second round survey is currently being designed to ask questions that the first survey raised or missed. Depression will be studied in greater detail.

Any role of testosterone itself in depression still needs to be properly investigated.

I consider depression to be one of the most severe side effects of castration, chemical or physical.

I have recently re-ordered the side effect list on the Chemical Castration protocol i wrote by % effected and severity:

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12114

I list "moderate to SEVERE suicidal level depression" as the #1 and most dangerous side effect. I know several eunuchs here who have been "gun in mouth" suicidal level depression.

Most here dont get to that level, i myself have "depression cycles" and a constant low level depression that started BEFORE my castration, both chemical and physical. My physical castration has actually made it better.

The rest of the effects are less common, and less life altering.

The 2nd major subsection on side effects are chemical castration's side effects on the liver, this will kill you slowly but you have warnings to stop it. Depression is much more insidious and will kill you faster if you dont catch it before it gets to that point.

Then there is the "less than 2%" side effect list.....

There is some type of depression with all castration. The degree and the type of depression depend greatly on the reason for the castration. Age of the person also weighs greatly in the matter. Depression seems to fall in to two groups from what I noticed form chatting with many.

I think you are hit with sort of a shock or a type of depression when the final cord is cut. The reality of castration hits and you know there is no going back now. No matter how much you have prepared for the day I think you may have a short time of self drought when you ask your self did I really do the right thing. That does pass fast for many of us. That worry/regret passed before I went to bed that night.

I think castration falls into two general classifications.

First the voluntary types:

The first group have very little depression and passes rather fast. They accept being an eunuch and get along with their life happy and content. These are the people that desired castration for many years. They have done their research on the effects and in most cases have been on chemical castration drugs for an extended time. They have lived as a eunuch and know how their body will react as an eunuch.

The second group are castrated but find that it is not what they expected. They got much the effects they wished but also got the side effect. They never really paid attention to side effects or thought they were so strong they could just overcome them and would not be a problem. This is the most over looked part of castration many have. You cannot pick and choose what effect and side effect you will get. You will get all of them to some degree. When the other side effects start to kick in the reality of castration kick in and the eunuch becomes depressed. Now they are faced with unwanted effects, the fantasy of being an eunuch is an reality. This can lead to some deep depression. For many they cannot separate fantasy from reality. Some acted out the fantasy to a disastrous end. They have to find a doctor to prescribe testosterone. Hope that their insurance will cover the expenses. The next problem is to find the correct dose of the hormone and the correct way to receive the hormone. As many threads have mentioned there is problems with each way.

Third group would be the transsexual, transgender. I would not even want to try to explore this area even being part of it.

Involantary Castration

In general, these people will be more depressed because for most people being castrated is about the worst thing that can happen to a man. Being a eunuch takes their strength, their power, manhood and all kinds of things. When something happens to a person against their will they will rebel. In this case become depress.

For many it is a real hard choice they have to make to give consent for castration. This would fall in the medical area cancer, deformity, accidents, hormonal. Often they look back and question their choice. What if I waited. Could it have healed. Seems like they need more time to adjust. Often are very ashamed of being one. Tries to conceal the condition from everyone. Sociality is not very understanding of eunuch's, yet most of us could know one .

The last group is most likely to suffer long and deep depression. That is the group of people that are forced or talked into castration. They are trying to live a fantasy in many cases. For some it is a life style they want now but may not be the one they want later in life. Once the current relationship is over it may be harder to find a new relationship. The number of people looking for a eunuch in the dating rooms is not good. So, the chances of finding a partner later in life will be greatly reduce.

* Guys that think they can be a better slave.

* Will make them more submissive.

* Doing to win someone affection.

* Will make them more feminine

* Wanting to look younger

* To keep being a boy

* Eunuch calmThere are far more to the list. But you get the idea.

I was castrated by choice, and as far as I can tell castration did not cause, make worse, or improve any of my mental health issues. I had pre-existing mental health issues that I still have, and that have not been affected in any way by castration or hormone types or levels.

I had some unique issues leading to my desire for castration. Chemical castration probably would not have helped stop me, and therapy would likely have had to be intense and long-term, and even then it may not have helped. I did not understand these issues at all then, and while I have developed some understanding of them now, I still have a long way to go.

I am partially regretful of my choice. There are aspects I like, and aspects I dislike.

I have issues with libido and ability, and at times these issues can upset me, but they do not cause clinical depression.

I think bobbie sums the different types of eunuchs and how each type is affected very well. Depression is something that affects each group of eunuchs differently. As bobbie says, involuntary eunuchs are more likely to experience depression, although some regretful voluntary eunuchs can become very depressed too.

Whatever the reason for castration, depression is a potential issue, and one that can be serious. Any new eunuch should be on the lookout for it and have a plan in the event that it develops.

I'm not sure I'm a good example here as I'm only at the beginning of my fourth month on chemical castration. I will say that I wasn't depressed before I started Androcur and I'm still not depressed. I had already been addressing my pre-existing depression, though, and was put on an antidepressant about 9 months ago that for the first time put my life-long depression in remission. This has been verified by psychological testing (late November 07) and my therapist's observations. There's always the possibility that the depression will return. A remission is not a cure.

For two weeks before starting Androcur (and making an appointment with the gender therapist), I was self-harming every evening and drinking 5 -6 beers a night on top of it. Not a good combination. What I think happened is the absence of depression had made my gender issues more apparent (that is, not masked by depression) and I didn't want to deal with them. For that matter, I didn't see there was a way to deal with them. That led to the temporary and uncharacteristic trip down alcoholic lane.

As soon as I started Androcur (November 2) and got an appointment with a gender therapist at the University of Minnesota, I stopped self-harming and my drinking returned to my typical level of a few a week. I had started to take action on my issues and so I was OK again. My situation has remained this way. BTW, I view male to eunuch as a legitimate gender transition, as does my gender therapist.

The problem I have had develop is Bipolar Disorder, although to date I've only experienced the manic end of the spectrum. No grandiose ideas or anything like that. Just feeling so extremely happy that I felt I couldn't contain the emotion. Believe it or not, this is not pleasant after the first few hours (or less).

I suspect I've always been bipolar and that the symptoms have been exacerbated by low testosterone. Hormones imbalances can contribute to bipolar disorder, as can major life changes. I'm certainly experiencing both of these. It's likely I will go on some hormone replacement, perhaps estrogen, and this may help control the mania.

My bipolar condition is under control for now and I'm certain the control will be fine-tuned as time passes. I have yet to experience the opposite end of the bipolar spectrum, depression. That may happen but I'm hopeful that as I continue to positively address my gender issues, and get some form of hormone replacement, the depression will not return or only in a mild form.

So there is the undesirable and unpleasant happiness when I'm manic (which can be controlled). When I'm reacting normally (and that's the large majority of the time), I am for the first time in my life consistently happy and not depressed from day to day. I never would have imagined that I could reach this state and I am very thankful for it. I don't think there are many people that are this fortunate.

There are so many signs that I'm on the right path. I'm really lucky to have reached this point in my life.

I have no intention of being castrated until I feel I am ready. I'm not there yet. Even when I am ready, I can certainly believe that the finality of the surgery will have an emotional impact. I'm confident that I will be able to deal with that.

-Danya

Lots of awesome thinking exhibited in this thread, with many good observations and experiences noted. Thank you all. I've stuck the thread so it will appear near the top of its category, so more people will likely see it, especially in the future. I also stuck DonFL's side effect thread.

After my chemotherapy and I became castrated. I did slide into a depression, but, I just had a quarter of my lung removed, and had been poisoned by chemotherapy, I think I was entitled to be depressed.

I also had some problem determining what was depression and what was emotions coming to the surface. Having been a person with little or no emotions before, having them envelop my sole was difficult to deal with.

Well that's my two cent.

Pauline.

I think many think they are depressed when it's just, they as men, never dealt with emotions. Also, you guys on chemicals would know better than me, but I understand that the quick drop in Testosterone causes the depression, and if one would taper down one might avoid the depression.

I seem to fall into Bobbie's first category of voluntary eunuchs. I wanted it for years due to problems caused by an over-active libido. I must say that when I crushed the second cord, it was with a bit of nervousness and apprehension. But that is long past. I chose my destiny and here I am.

I'll offer a bit from another point of view. At one point I explained to my doctor that I feel what I think are the physical feelings of depression yet do not feel like I have any reason to be depressed. While my T wasn't low - it wasn't where it could be - not quite sure why. In a very short time on a T supplement the feelings of depression went away. My doctor explained that it's quite common and the first thing she looks for when people like me present such symptoms.

I suspect that there might be a lot of experience to support a doctor's thinking that if adding T takes away depression then taking it away is likely to cause depression. That may be an incorrect conclusion however there is lots of experience with otherwise health men who've been castrated because of injury or illness - and my guess is that it's that base of expience that is used by the doctors. I have to say that my docs have made it clear to me that people are incredibly variable especially when it comes to T levels. Feelings of sexual frustration cause their own set of problems - that's tough for anyone to judge how any one person will feel before or after and suggests that predicting the outcome of hormone adjustment is difficult at best.

Just keep in mind that these are the same "know-it-all" clowns who park their thumbs up where the sun don't shine concerning global warming and a thousand other important issues.

And why is "depression" worse than wanting to have sex with dead people or some other sexual aberation? Necrophilia is just one of many paraphilias that can easily destroy one's ability to have a meaningful relationship.

WOW, where did that come from.

Pauline

gpb3aol (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:43 pm WOW, where did that come from.

Pauline

No Shit! Is ALL of Tom back?

Such broad generalizations are generally a bad idea.



(Insert Richard Dawson's sound clip here)

As the survey says...

We're a pretty diverse group, as anyone who was at the last MoM can attest to.

OK, we can leave a few members out of the 'pretty' category...

But to say ALL eunuchs are depressed, well, no.

Are all eunuchs tall and thin? No.

Depression is a side effect, though, and if you use the SEARCH function, you'll find that quite a few were blindsided by it. It's an associated risk.

The life and times we live in (GW, the war, the economy, the right wing Christians and other hate groups, over population) the list goes on. You don't have to be a eunuch to be depressed.

Pauline

This might be a good question for Sister since your experience is in this area and professional.

I started out with testicles that didn't "function" and had low Testosterone as a result. Life for me was not great. I was in a serious funk. I didn't know why and my GP did a physical, asked me a number of questions and said that what I had sounded "like" mental depression. But to be sure she was going to check my hormones. (Testosterone, Thyroid etc) and when it was discovered that I had low Testosterone I went on HRT and got better. LOTS. My depression "symptoms" went away.

My question has always been this. Is it really "depression" as in mental depression when your suffering from low to no hormones or is it a different thing? I've always thought it was two seperate things. A blood test can tell for example that you have low testosterone and dialing that up with injections or gels or patches seems to help people assuming they don't also have Mental Depression. And from what I know (Which I admit is zilch) there is no blood test for mental depression. Its more of a subjective test by a professional. Correct?

I'm really interested in others point of view on this. Is Mental Depression one thing and ahh... what to call it? Hormonal depression another? Can you have both? I think so btw....

BTW from what Jesus posted. I think he is right - its far too complicated to lump all eunuchs together and say "Castration = depression" Clearly a young super stud guy with testicular cancer who is told Monday he has cancer and has a bilateral orchiectomy tuesday is going to feel different then say a transexual person who has been saving up their pennies for the surgery and sees this as a step to where they want to go. Or any other voluntary Eunuch such as myself that saw the operation as a plus.

And if I "get" mental depression is there some connection to feelings of self worth and positive outcome vrs tragic "oh shit why me?" Or is it mostly brain chemistry and genetics?

I suspect its some of all this and hormones in many cases. Which is why I am amazed with my good doctor who is able to sift though a very complex set of things and come up with a correct answer.

You were very lucky that your GP thought to check your T level. Most doctors do not do this, and instead the diagnosis of "depression" is given and SSRIs are prescribed.

I know of many cases where this has happened, and these guys have spent years or even decades on SSRIs trying to figure out why they still don't feel so great. Some have even had their marriages and other aspects of their lives ruined over the doctor's mistake. Then years later they find out it was low T all along. Once they start T therapy, they feel better than they have in years or decades. And since SSRIs are suspected to lower T, they may even make the problem worse (and goodness only knows what other long-term effects these powerful and little understood drugs have on the body and mind).

This could have easily been you if it were not for you doctor's knowledge to give your T a check first. You have a good doctor

You are right that there is no objective test for depression, and that is my biggest beef with it. This diagnosis is entirely subjective, usually given by only one person, and often it is based on one short interview. There are no objective tests to confirm any diagnosis of depression.

I have been given more psychiatric diagnoses than I can count by therapists who have seen me no more than a few sessions, sometimes as few as one. These people usually knew nothing about me or my history. And many of their diagnoses were later said by other therapists to be mistakes. So if the diagnosis of "depression" is to be given, it is one that should be given with care, only after all possible physical medical problems have been ruled out. It is a diagnosis that follows a person for the rest of his or her life.

plix (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:18 am You were very lucky that your GP thought to check your T level. Most doctors do not do this, and instead the diagnosis of "depression" is given and SSRIs are prescribed.

I know of many cases where this has happened, and these guys have spent years or even decades on SSRIs trying to figure out why they still don't feel so great. Some have even had their marriages and other aspects of their lives ruined over the doctor's mistake. Then years later they find out it was low T all along. Once they start T therapy, they feel better than they have in years or decades. And since SSRIs are suspected to lower T, they may even make the problem worse (and goodness only knows what other long-term effects these powerful and little understood drugs have on the body and mind).

This could have easily been you if it were not for you doctor's knowledge to give your T a check first. You have a good doctor

You are right that there is no objective test for depression, and that is my biggest beef with it. This diagnosis is entirely subjective, usually given by only one person, and often it is based on one short interview. There are no objective tests to confirm any diagnosis of depression.

I have been given more psychiatric diagnoses than I can count by therapists who have seen me no more than a few sessions, sometimes as few as one. These people usually knew nothing about me or my history. And many of their diagnoses were later said by other therapists to be mistakes. So if the diagnosis of "depression" is to be given, it is one that should be given with care, only after all possible physical medical problems have been ruled out. It is a diagnosis that follows a person for the rest of his or her life.

Thanks! I really am pleased (and amazed) that I have such a good doctor. When she retires I plan to jump off a building

I've often wondered about the number of menopausal women who are prescribed SSRIs. Is this more of the same thing? I mean are they treating the "symptoms" instead of the actual cause? And again I wonder if its two different things? I can see how strong doses of mental health meds might make a person feeling lousy from hormone problems no longer "care" about them. We had a neighbor who had "vegged" out on this type of thing and her doctor left her on this junk for years. Then when she went off the stuff she was so happy to have her head removed from the "fog" that it was almost scary.

I did not respond on the second part of you question. That is a far harder one to answer. First of all it is harder to get first hand information on suicidal. I would find it unusual to a person to leave a note behind stating that they took their life because they are an eunuch. Again different groups will react differently.

The voluntary eunuch may be depressed as a result of the castration. The effects were not s desired. While this may not be enough by itself to bring on suicidal thoughts. It could be a factor along with other depression causes. The combined depression could be enough to push the person over the edge. IN general castration would not be a cause of suicidal thoughts.

The involuntary eunuch poses different potential problems. Castration can cause serious depression in some. If other personal problems are going on in their lives it can compound and be overwhelming. The inability to perform in bed with a partner can cause problems that stress relationships to the point of separation. An unhappy eunuch may have a desire to keep showing that he is still a "man" and takes wild chances to prove that he is. He may try to over compensate and become a risk taker. This may not be suicidal in the true sense but could be cry for help. Can castration contribute to thoughts of or the act of suicide? Yes it can for some. Castration may be more of a factor but many other things are going on in his life that are playing a part of the depression.

Now for the unfortunate who were talked into castration or were done against their will. Finding records for this group would be very hard. Their stories makes for some good reading but do not think that happens all that often. This group would tend to be more prone to act more irrational. Depression could be deeper and have other physiological problems. Do not have the numbers of how many females are suicidal as a result of being raped. I would think that being forced into castration would have at least the same effect if not more. If the guys castration story was on the evening news the embarrassment could be very overpowering and harmful. Harmful to the degree of being suicidal. I am not sure just how trauma and crisis centers are prepared to deal with a forced castration. Judging how the medical community treats castration in general I bet very poorly. This person will need psychology help for some time to help put the life together.

I am not going into all the possible areas. I taking a very general standpoint. Suicidal persons will most often have several areas in their life that is in trouble. All it may take is one more little thing to reach the limit and they snap.

Depression is a multifaceted and variable phenomenon, and there are many theories abounding regarding it

The largest areas of agreement suggest that depression is either of a transient type or a more chronic, long-lasting form. It can range in degree of severity from mild to very severe, including psychotic levels.

There are strong arguments that depression has a significant element of heritability (a genetic component). There is substantial evidence, though by no means conclusive, for this. It may also include a propensity toward depression, as well as that state itself. Propensity may suggest more transient types of depression as well as the full monty. Degrees of any of this are always variable, suggestive, and at this point, never completely definitive.

The more transient types are usually associated with a situation where one may feel "down" for a few days, to something significant, like a death in the family. The less transient types (more chronic) generally need and should be treated with such drugs as SSRI's. There are other options available as well. In any case, depression is not likely something that one can just "snap out" of, especially more difficult forms or degrees.

Certainly, such things as different levels of hormones or other body chemicals, or lack thereof, can cause depression. There is substantial support for this all throughout the medical literature - including a lack of testosterone. Of course, the risk is, as has been pointed out, that an accurate causative assessment may not be made, and a physical cause that manifests depression not be discovered. The risk is furthered in that the cause may be masked by SSRI's or similar, and go untreated. A thorough physical exam, including labs, should always precede a diagnosis of depression.

It should be noted that there is no published literature that says the SSRI's lower testosterone levels, at least that I can find (and I have looked a lot) (maybe someone else may find something contrary). There are, however, many reports that they can impair sexual function, but not by reducing testosterone. The "how"of the impairment is not known.

In terms of differentiating "real" or "mental" depression from some or any other sort, I would suggest there is no difference between them in any form, save degree. Pain, after all, is pain, no matter the cause. The only questions in my mind would be how much and how long is the pain, and why the pain - if discernible -to determine transience.

Relative to tests for depression, I know of no blood or other physical test the detects depression. In many respects, it is a subjective judgement that needs to be tempered by experience and care. There are, however, questionnaires and inventories (not these 10 or 20 question Reader's Digest things) that are reasonably to quite accurate for assessment. I favor those developed by Cattell and the successors to them, as very highly accurate.

Regarding some of the manifestations of depression, I won't go into any great discussion. There is a LOT of very good information all over the net on the topic. But, specifically, to equate castration with a certainty of depression is not in the least valid. Broad generalities do no one any good, and usually only tend to stoke fear.

I will say that there is some evidence in this regard in the recent EA survey. I am not sure of the numbers off hand, but as I recall, about 50% of voluntary eunuchs experienced some level of significant depression. It is very substantial among cancer patients (testicular certainly, and much more reported evidence with prostate cancer patients). Of course, there is a significant body of anecdotal evidence scattered throughout this Archive, suggesting a high RISK (not certainty) of experiencing depression. Voluntaries seem to report significantly less depressive experience than involuntaries. Where voluntaries do experience significant depression, reports suggest that it is most often an exacerbation of pre-existing depressive states or conditions.

Sister K:

So what your saying is depression is depression but you need to do labs etc so as to see how best to treat it? Hoo hoo for my GP! She got it right.

So for example a healthy person who takes a long series of tests like say an MMPI? or whatever and talks to a doctor is diagnosed with Depression but has good labs for hormones etc would be best treated with therapy and maybe SSRIs.

A person with low to no hormones of some type (Including Thyroid) would first be treated with HRT then if they were still having depression problems go to therapy and or SSRIs?

And I guess a third thing to check is if the patient is having some tragedy that they have to deal with like death in the family disease etc. And how to treat that? Therapy I suppose or a short run of drug therapy?

That makes sense to me!? wow....

Yoli here, nervously awaiting the predicted storms (high winds, rain, "large" hail, and maybe a tornado or two...EEEEK!)

Most of the membership here are aware that I know three eunuchs on a personal basis, including one (Barry) on an up-close-and-very personal basis. Of the three, there is one who evidences resentment, thinly-veiled anger, etc, over his condition. I've described him in some previous post. If there is one among the three that I can envision in a suicide scenario, it's him.

Whereas the other two, Barry and Mr.X, were very voluntarily castrated, this guy, without revealing specifics, hints darkly that he was forced into it, or castrated by force. This, if course, has caused me to wonder and even fantasize as to "why, where, how, by whom?". Even before this thread was initiated I had him pegged as someone who might commit suicide. Worse yet, I can't shake the feeling that he might not go out solo; That he might take someone with him, perhaps whomever he feels is the "culprit" in his castration.

As to the "why"; I suspect that he was castrated in some "either/or" scheme, perhaps being confronted with the choice of castration or being exposed for some sexual misdeed (rape? pedophilia?). I know that such things are not unheard of, the Story Section notwithstanding. Whether or not force was involved I cannot say but can imagine.

"Where"? That seems to be a tossup between Mexico or somewhere in the Houston area. I've thought in past that I'd discovered which, but can't be certain

"How"? Whoever did it must have known what they were doing or got very lucky...incision in his baggie, balls gone, neat stitching.

"Whom"? This is the greatest mystery. Beside the person doing the actual cutting, who "ordained" the castration? Who was present? Was there a struggle? Did he resist? The stuff of wonder and fantasy, to be certain, but he is most evasive re all four questions and/or changes the skimpy responses he does offer.

In my opinion, this man is a time bomb. That's why he is seldom invited to our little gatherings. Stranger still; He can be charming, helpful with domestic chores, is a good cook and good bartender, and generous to a fault when the pizza boy needs payment. He can also be silent, sullen, weepy, and a dark cloud over the proceedings.

So, suicidal? I give it a 60/40 likelihood. I just hope he goes it alone unless whomever he takes with him richly deserves it.

That's all.

Now I'm all gloomy!

Yoli