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Is there a romanticized concept of DE-Manning a male...as in some stories a man is nutted and then stays married to his wife and becomes her servant and servant to the men she sleeps with. Is there a mythos attached to the whole thing that because you lose them, you are less than what you were?

The real Eunuchs on here have productive lives, did it as a life choice for the most part, take TRT if they want to...and haven't become spineless robotic servants.

Does the first idea refer to the fantasy bunch. The ones who if they really were castrated, would regret it almost immediately? Where as the guys who went into this with their eyes open, did it for specific reasons and are the same person afterwards albeit calmer and less aggressive?

Batman

I was told twice this weekend to stop being so agressive. You would think that after ten+ years of being a non hrt eunuch I might be calmer. Since becoming a eunuch I have felt more like my true self. Since I like myself more I am less apt to let people take advantage or mistreat me. I am more assertive in my day to day life.

Sexually I still find myself as more the bottom and my fantasies involve me being subservient. Once the sex is over do not make the mistake that I will be passive in other situations.

I guess everyone's experience is unique (no pun intended). The conventional wisdom certainly is that someone without a lot of testosterone in their system is likely to be less aggressive than someone with a high level of testosterone. I guess there's scientific research to support this as well, but I also know that the "normal" range for testosterone is between 300--1,000, depending on age. And, I imagine that someone can be angry and very aggressive without a lot of testosterone, depending on personality and background.

Men who would be submissive servants to their wives or girl friend and watch as they have sex with others would likely do the same with or without testicles. The fantasy of castration just adds to the humilation they seek. It also gives justification to those in denial, that are unable to admit to their submissive obsession, why a "real man" would tolerate such conditions. Its not about being a Eunuch, its about domination.

Charis (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:07 pm Men who would be submissive servants to their wives or girl friend and watch as they have sex with others would likely do the same with or without testicles. The fantasy of castration just adds to the humilation they seek. It also gives justification to those in denial, that are unable to admit to their submissive obsession, why a "real man" would tolerate such conditions. Its not about being a Eunuch, its about domination.

My own experience as an eunuch is that my desire to watch my wife have sex with other men has not changed much.

As for your conclusion - I'd have to agree.

As I'm not quite a Eunuch yet I must agree with Kangan's comment to Charis.

I really do think that it depends on the individual involved, we all have different reasons for doing this, for some this is the reason, while for others it is a totally different reason.

Of the three (well, four, counting our new Asian "ladyboy" acquaintance,) eunuchs I know, reasons for castration are widely varied.

Our "pet" eunuch friend and lover was voluntarily snipped to control what he describes as "urges that would make him do bad things." His mother, sad to say, was the driving influence in his being castrated. SHE got off on it, I'm quite certain.

His two eunuch friends from Houston? One has been reluctant to go into detail but I suspect it was a punishment dealt to him by some sort vigilante type or types, perhaps an "Either you lose 'em or we A: Kill you, or B: Go to the cops and tell all!" The other just made the choice on his own, and I think there may have been some medically-related factors in his decision.

The "Ladyboy", who has been in the USA for maybe a year, and was introduced to me by one of the Houstonians, stated that "She" was castrated, voluntarity, in her mid-teens, apparently right after or near the end of puberty. I was totally shocked by the revelation, but then we her at the EA learned of the back-alley Mom 'n Pop places doing castrations on VERY young teens in Thailand until the government stepped in. Whoa!

None of these folks seem subservient or to be seeking humiliation.

Yoli

More Kawfeeeeee!

As a "pituatary" eunuch and then a real eunuch (and I can sing higher than Celine Dione, did shave as much as twice a week in my thirties), all I can say is that a lot of the stuff you here about eunuchs is a bunch of pure total cockamany BULLCRAP!!! Yes, I get road rage every so often but then I have ridden along side women who have gotten road rage at the same kind of aggravations that get me pissed off. When somebody is human and walks on two feet, --or not even has to walk on two feet even they will get aggravated and pissed off at a lot of things in everyday life. Guaranteed. Ever wait at a four way stop sign for some itiot on the cell phone who just fuckin' isn't getting it? And so forth. You know what I mean. Maybe the only difference is that we're not particularly known for chasing after women or hanging out with the boys like every one else. We're probably not one of the ten guys surrounding the major center of attraction at the bar or around town hoping to be the one who gets into her pants and fending off the other guys all the while trying to get closer and closer to her while she's loving all the attention given to her by everyone. (Yes, I have have observed this sort of behavior lots of times.) And that's about all the difference there really is.

Two types? I'd say probably a whole bunch...my heart goes out to the transexual types.

It seems like alot of emotional and intellectual energy gets spent just trying to express yourself with little or no energy left for developing an equaly satisfying expirience.

I think you have to first accept that having an orchiectomy "de-mans" someone. More on that later..

Its too many things at once (to complex to put into a box) I think the sexual kink your talking about is cuckolding and is mostly married guys who get off on seeing their wives have sex with other men (Or hearing about it) Some of it is probably just a slight variation on wife swapping and to other extreme it about male chastity and being humiliated. There is also a segment that is about forced homosexuality and I used the word "forced" tongue in cheek. More of an "excuse" to have homosexual contact. All very taboo all I'm sure very exciting and on the edge but... I dunno. I'm simple.... Why all this drama?

What do they say about the largest sex organ? The one between the ears? Those of us with functional sex drives can get "horny" about all sorts of things. I once had an argument with a friend who thought I might be into doing bondage with her. It was pretty much along the lines "Why isin't sex with out all the handcuffs, whips etc good enough?" And in her case I think it was lots of mental reservations about sex. She was (i think) ashamed of her needs and wanted someone to tie her up and "make her" do it to make it "ok." I dunno... its all games and making the simple complicated. Plus pain and sex don't make any sense to me.

"Castration" in and of itself I guess I think of as a complication in that a man who wants to retain his "male" wiring has to fiddle with his hormones, have PSA and DRE exams. For men like me who had testicles that were a chronic source of pain removing them was a total blessing. And while there was the months (year?) of fiddling with hormones to get it right I feel more "male" then I have in decades. Oh, and if we are talking about the male "body image" a good topic I feel more male like since my goofed up testicles were shrunken up peripuberty sized and my replacements are adult sized.

I think that the connection that exists between the chemical soup that is our bloodstream and our mental or emotional states is so complex and poorly understood that almost any theory about motivation and behavior as they relate to the testosterone in our bodies is probably defensible.

Some societies seem to believe that testosterone's relationship to aggressive behavior in males is so clearly established that there are laws that allow the chemical castration of an individual who is determined to be a risk to the population. On the other hand, the ability to become extremely angry and also act out of that rage can be completely unrelated to the level of testosterone in one's system. I'll take the word of those who report that they have experienced a "eunuch calm" after castration as evidence that such a "calm" exists, but I have never experienced such.

What does this mean in the context of this discussion? People's bodies are their own and they should do with them what they wish. Personally, I hope that individuals seek counselling before they consent to anything irrevocable and that whatever they choose to have "done" to them is carried out by licensed medical professionals acting in the best traditions of their professions and in safe, sterile settings.

Testosterone might be able to be compared with salt. Most of us probably do eat too much of it (including myself) but then on the other hand there are those "health nut" types that completely avoid salt altogether. And I did even know of one lady who actually died from the lack of salt (I think) due digestive complications because she was totally convinced that "salt was evil" and the reason for most of our health ailments. But I'm alive and she's not. I myself like having very low testosterone but I do know that a little of it IS good and perhaps I need more. I don't know. The way I see it is that testosterone is neither good nor evil. It just is. If the body gets too much it just turns around and converts into estrogen is all. And far as aggressive behavior is concerned, I've heard the same things about the amount of salt in our diet.

Maybe I'd like to go back to the original post that referenced a "romanticized concept" of being a eunuch.

To me, all this discussion revolves around insecurity (of which I have a lot) and a desire for acceptance and a "romanticized concept" of what it would be like if sexuality were of minimal or marginal significance.

I've lately thought that most of us are fundametally insecure about our identities most of the time, sexual or otherwise, with brief interludes of confidence, and that that's almost a natural condition of our humanity.

Sometimes we're just so afraid....

Michael

mrt (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:31 pm I think you have to first accept that having an orchiectomy "de-mans" someone. More on that later..

Its too many things at once (to complex to put into a box) I think the sexual kink your talking about is cuckolding and is mostly married guys who get off on seeing their wives have sex with other men (Or hearing about it) Some of it is probably just a slight variation on wife swapping and to other extreme it about male chastity and being humiliated. There is also a segment that is about forced homosexuality and I used the word "forced" tongue in cheek. More of an "excuse" to have homosexual contact. All very taboo all I'm sure very exciting and on the edge but... I dunno. I'm simple.... Why all this drama?

What do they say about the largest sex organ? The one between the ears? Those of us with functional sex drives can get "horny" about all sorts of things. I once had an argument with a friend who thought I might be into doing bondage with her. It was pretty much along the lines "Why isin't sex with out all the handcuffs, whips etc good enough?" And in her case I think it was lots of mental reservations about sex. She was (i think) ashamed of her needs and wanted someone to tie her up and "make her" do it to make it "ok." I dunno... its all games and making the simple complicated. Plus pain and sex don't make any sense to me.

Finally, I'm an infrequent poster, but I hope that folks out here who clearly fantasize about a lot of stuff (not a dis of fantasy, but acknowledging and understanding the frontier between fantasy and reality is important) benefit from the experience of people like yourself who know what you are talking about.

mrt (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:31 pm "Castration" in and of itself I guess I think of as a complication in that a man who wants to retain his "male" wiring has to fiddle with his hormones, have PSA and DRE exams. For men like me who had testicles that were a chronic source of pain removing them was a total blessing. And while there was the months (year?) of fiddling with hormones to get it right I feel more "male" then I have in decades. Oh, and if we are talking about the male "body image" a good topic I feel more male like since my goofed up testicles were shrunken up peripuberty sized and my replacements are adult sized.

Really thoughtful and insightful post. Thanks!

A few comments.

I think you read your "submissive" friend right. A lot of submission for many is giving up control in order to engage in things which might otherwise bring up internal prohibitions or taboos. And, you don't have to be into "pain" to give into her wishes and restrain her gently and consensually so she can find what she wants. For many of us, the "simple" is indeed "complicated."

Thanks for sharing your experience with HRT. It's taken me a long time as well to "get it right," experimenting with different, medically prescribed, delivery systems, monitoring levels with a very helpful endocrinologist, once convincing a urologist (who correctly did all of the proper tests) that an objectively alarmingly elevated PSA level was due to my making the mistake of getting the level taken too soon after my testosterone injection, and other things with which I am sure you are familiar. I fully understand your comment about feeling "more male" now. The HRT has allowed me to maintain the libido of a much younger person as I have aged and I must admit, I haven't minded that one bit.

cordonone (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:56 pm Really thoughtful and insightful post. Thanks!

A few comments.

I think you read your "submissive" friend right. A lot of submission for many is giving up control in order to engage in things which might otherwise bring up internal prohibitions or taboos. And, you don't have to be into "pain" to give into her wishes and restrain her gently and consensually so she can find what she wants. For many of us, the "simple" is indeed "complicated."

Thanks for sharing your experience with HRT. It's taken me a long time as well to "get it right," experimenting with different, medically prescribed, delivery systems, monitoring levels with a very helpful endocrinologist, once convincing a urologist (who correctly did all of the proper tests) that an objectively alarmingly elevated PSA level was due to my making the mistake of getting the level taken too soon after my testosterone injection, and other things with which I am sure you are familiar. I fully understand your comment about feeling "more male" now. The HRT has allowed me to maintain the libido of a much younger person as I have aged and I must admit, I haven't minded that one bit.

My friend who was (is?) into bondage was never on my radar. She was cute but... not my type. And that was several decades ago! I think by now she has met Mister (or would it be Master?) right.

I've been emailing a few close friends on the whole "how to get HRT right" thing because its more complex then I think we think.

The first problem is that when you start it many men get a "jolt" that makes them a bit euphoric and thats just a one time thing. Chasing that is of no value.

Second if your sex drive and memory have been shot for a long time getting it back doesn't (in my case) happen for a while. You might have to be on a good dose and have proper blood levels for months to get feeling 100%. And then some of it can still be a bit objective. For example if you've sworn off sex while in the Eunuch zone some of that thinking can make allowing yourself to be sexual again more complicated. If you have had low levels for a really long time this second "puberty" can really hit like an A bomb. I am so thankful I had a good GP that focused on getting me feeling right rather then just hitting some lab level mark. And also that she was open to questions and willing to find answers when she didn't know. Hey, a doctor that doesn't know EVERYTHING? how rare is that?

cordonone (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am I think that the connection that exists between the chemical soup that is our bloodstream and our mental or emotional states is so complex and poorly understood that almost any theory about motivation and behavior as they relate to the testosterone in our bodies is probably defensible.

I think your comment is dead on. Talking to a person who has never had any changes in their hormone levels is like a blind guy telling you his favorite color.

As to Testosterone and emotions I think weird levels of it are the cause of a lot of hostility. In my case low levels = pissed off ALL the time.