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Okay, what do you all think the youngest a guy should be before he can be legally castrated for reasons other than medical reason? Like if he wants to be castrated at a young age do you think the boy should be allowed to have it done?

Its been a while since I have been on here.

Oh and I know its a bit late but Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's.

To deny someone castration because of their age is difficult to say Because if that person wants it bad enough they will find a way to get it done safely or not

Everybody's life circumstances are different

What is young , certainty I would sagest to that young person to talk to a professional to help clarify there pathway so that their best interest are assured

If castration is going to be effective in preventing the unwanted changes of puberty it would have to be done before that time. However, that would require parental consent which would be unlikely.

JustAGuy (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:19 am Okay, what do you all think the youngest a guy should be before he can be legally castrated for reasons other than medical reason? Like if he wants to be castrated at a young age do you think the boy should be allowed to have it done?

Its been a while since I have been on here.

Oh and I know its a bit late but Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's.

What reasons might those be?

Unless one does not count gender body mismatch as a medical indication for castration.

Moi

For some reason, this question really peaked my interest. I know that Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland were notorious for changing a male baby's sex if the baby's penis was not an inch long. I think they stopped doing this. I was born in 1946 and they did not do this stuff where I was born. But if they did and saw my teeny weeny, I would have grown up a tall, skinny, bespecled, geeky looking girl whose name would have been "Bobbi"...

Yes, I have a micropenis and I hope that next year I can solve this problem through surgery rather than think about it, much less have to look at it, use it, abuse it ...

I think a boy of seven, who can reason, may have mixed emotions if he is transgendered. Therefore, if I were guessing the answer to this question, I would have to say four or five. This way the child/toddler who probably has not had his first haircut, can accept it much more easily.

The legendary boy was being circumsized with a cautery tool

that is a major No No

Well the cautery tool malfunctioned and his penis was fried, necessitating amputation. Then to try make things more, right, the doctors recommended castration and raising him as a girl. That did not go right from the first moment his mother, put the hardly one year old in a dress.

Years later the poor kid had to gesture suicide if "they" would not leave him alone I think when they were going to do the surgery to make him, female.

He has appeared on the talk show circuit.

The 1970's was big time for those inappropriate surgeries. Stanford University had a failure in their transexual program because they favored pretty boy homosexuals and not true transgender candidates.

Moi

old fart in San Francisco in the 70's, pre-AIDS.

If it is just to be a Eunuch, then it would have to be after he reaches 18, and after his body is done growing properly.

There has been a lot said on this topic over the years, if Jesus is looking I am sure he could shed some lite on this subject from a professional view.

Me, you should be of legal age.

River

There are some recent cases, mostly in Europe or the UK of boys of 13-15 being given the option to choose for themselves. In those cases, there was an interest in preserving youthful voices, and additionally there was a question about the fertility of the boys in question as well.

Most kids IMHO are not equipped to make a decision of this type prior to puberty. There are exceptions , but for the most part it is a decision best left to a mature mind.

This site is filled with guys who have harbored desires for castration for 10, 20 ,30 years, and still not acted. It is a very large decision, and not one to be made lightly.

In my own life, I have known a natural eunuch(born without testicles) who opted not to use Testosterone therapy, as well as several people who were castrated as infants or small children due to crypto-orchidism. I also have known several who agreed to castration at a fairly young men, with mixed results.

My own experience is that younger eunuchs tend to desire to have testosterone therapy , and seek to function normally, while those who are older, and past the "breeding age" seem to be content to go without.

My own situation was such that I really should have been castrated as a small child, but was not. This resulted in a lifetime of pain and discomfort, as well as dependence on Testosterone therapy. Today, I am a true eunuch, (balls removed in 2008) and quite comfortable with it.

I lived most of my life with others assuming I was castrated since my balls were so small , and imbedded in the abdomen. Over the years I developed a body image that did not include having balls, and now finally feel complete.

Had the option been mine, in my late teens, I would have opted for castration, but many others are not prepared to make that decision at 16-18.

To sum up, I think when we reach the point of castration on request that a minimum age of 21-25 should be required, unless there are other circumstances involved.

Raymar

Hi Friends!

Without any chance of saying if I think right or not I harbour a thought about the boy in the story "The choirboy" and his way of getting around the problem in comparison to the safe way of doing it a hospital if it was a guess that the boy could in our modern times get a big star on the stage. If a boy at 15 thought about going the way and the parents had heard about it earlier in the boys life I think it should be ok to go ahead with it.

Greetings

John

Right age? This is a question that does not have numerical answer.

Answer could be found with the help of theory of relativity... There is no fixed points in the world. No fixed ages. There is always a background we are dependant on. Our thoughts, values and acts are dependant on. Cultural background, beliefs, knowledge, desire, etc.

I could say it is kinda provocative question, regarding western society beliefs, values and culture. So, be careful with answers!

I think that there shouldn't be an age limit, tbh. I mean I'm not saying a 3 yr old should make the decision, what if the kid is say 10 or 12? Old enough to actually think about and decide whether or not they would be happy with it.

Also to answer the question of what reason could it be, I mean for person reasons (i.e. feel like they aren't supposed to be a boy, or just doesn't want to go through puberty).

moi621 (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:43 am The legendary boy was being circumsized with a cautery tool

that is a major No No

Well the cautery tool malfunctioned and his penis was fried, necessitating amputation. Then to try make things more, right, the doctors recommended castration and raising him as a girl. That did not go right from the first moment his mother, put the hardly one year old in a dress.

Years later the poor kid had to gesture suicide if "they" would not leave him alone I think when they were going to do the surgery to make him, female.

He has appeared on the talk show circuit.

I watched a documentary on PBS about one of the first cases in which a boy was given a sex change because of a botched circumcision. I watched the program many years ago and while my memory is good, it is not perfect so I might have some of the details wrong.

This is what I remember: Twin boys who were about 11 months old were circumcised. One of them lost his penis. A doctor decided to convert him into a girl. He was castrated and had a vagina made. He was raised as a girl. The results were terrible. The doctor published a medical journal article in which he said that the results were very good. Because of this article, other boys were converted into pseudo-girls.

The boy who was converted found out when he was a young adult. He stopped taking estrogen and started testosterone. He was about six inches shorter than his twin brother. He planned to have surgery to restore his penis. A few years later he killed himself.

His name was David Reimerhttp://www.cbc.ca/news/background/reimer

What a sad story of mis-guided medicine.

I hope the doctor who caused the damaged penis was properly chastised -- that was an unfortunate and preventable accident.

I hope the doctor who told the family to raise him as a girl and removed his testicles lost his license and was ostracized -- he deserves that and worse.

We've had this discussion before, but I think that thread was lost in the 'great crash' some time ago.

My thoughts on the matter are this: No minor is capable of making such a life-altering decision on his/her own, in regards to MTE or MTF gender change. Nor with any kind of genital alteration. They simply do not have those cognitive processes. Treatment with something like lupron, used to delay puberty in some TG cases, is fine so long as it is reversible. Perhaps Jesus can provide us with info on this practice?

My only concession on this would be perhaps age 16, at the soonest, and then only if the person had lived in the different gender role for a long time and fully identified with it.

More discussion? And let's not delve into the fantasy aspects of it HERE. That's what the FICTION archive is for. Let's keep it in a rational, educated debate format.

Thank you.

Paolo wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:53 am We've had this discussion before, but I think that thread was lost in the 'great crash' some time ago.

My thoughts on the matter are this: No minor is capable of making such a life-altering decision on his/her own, in regards to MTE or MTF gender change. Nor with any kind of genital alteration. They simply do not have those cognitive processes. Treatment with something like lupron, used to delay puberty in some TG cases, is fine so long as it is reversible. Perhaps Jesus can provide us with info on this practice?

My only concession on this would be perhaps age 16, at the soonest, and then only if the person had lived in the different gender role for a long time and fully identified with it.

More discussion? And let's not delve into the fantasy aspects of it HERE. That's what the FICTION archive is for. Let's keep it in a rational, educated debate format.

Thank you.

How about voice training and a youths decision to become a castrato?

Would those qualify as appropriate circumstances with all the fluff of psychiatric reviews, etc.

Moi

No.

If you find a real one, call Simon Cowell and get him a recording contract.

This is a question that has been asked several times here on the Archive, usually with long and very thoughtful discussion of the many issues involved. At one point I was certain that I had the right answer. I'm now far less certain, and I'm sure that my earlier response was wrong.

I am actually the one who began the discussion on two occasions by posting what I termed an "ethical dilemma" about the issue. The first time was in response to a post by A-1. That time there were 75, mostly very thoughtful, responses before the Archive was taken down by a hacker and the thread was lost. In response to a thread begun by Vesal_mas, which also seems to have since disappeared, Paolo asked me to again post the ethical dilemma to see what responses it got. It's still available (at least until the next system crash) as Evangelical Church of the Lambs of Christ (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4348), though it had only a few responses the second time around.

The original posting led to a general consensus that 25 was the minimum age that should be considered.

Since then, I have met and talked with many more members of the Eunuch Archive community. I have read the responses to the first and second survey that were posted on the Archive (just under 1000 responses to the first survey and about 3000 to the second). I have read extensively in the related academic and medical literature and spoken with many of the experts in the field. I now know that the answer is far more complex than I ever thought it might be.

Today, rather than starting with age, I would begin by considering the REASON that someone wanted castration. There are many reasons, with different levels of validity, different ages of onset, and different ideal ages for castration (if that is a proper option at all).

I would argue that intensive psychological counseling is necessary in order to determine the reasons and, if justified, provide the necessary cover of a second opinion for any surgeon.

Of those who answered the surveys and provided sufficient information for us to determine their reasoning, about one-third appear to have a Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID). This is not yet well described in the medical literature, though it is beginning to be of more interest. Where it does appear, it is usually described in terms of someone "knowing" that a lateral appendage (hand, arm, foot, leg) does not belong. There is extreme distress until the appendage is removed. Neither psychiatric nor chemical treatment seems to work. Only the removal of the offending part provides a "cure" for this disorder. And it does provide a "cure" as the person almost never goes on to want another part removed. Most of those described in the literature with BIID are well-educated and successful in their fields.

The next revision of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the DSM-V) is likely to include BIID and to argue that surgery is justified after appropriate counseling.

My reading of the literature and of the survey results and my conversations with some of the "experts" on BIID lead me to suspect that BIID effecting the genitals is more common than that affecting the lateral appendages that are most of what is currently in the medical literature.

The age of onset of BIID is frequently in early childhood - six or seven years of age is common. But, if a boy wants his testicles removed because of BIID, he still wants to grow up to be a man - definitely male, just without those offensive parts. After castration, he would still want testosterone.

Since the testicles produce more than JUST testosterone, I would think that he should be counseled to wait until full maturity, but with assurance that surgery is possible at that point.

[Here I would like to have some input from Archive members with BIID as to their thoughts about demanding that someone wait, and if so, for how long. At what age did YOU first want your testicles removed? How did you feel about waiting? Should someone who is not yet 18 (or 25) have to wait? Why? Why not?]

I'll wait for some response to this first section before continuing with other reasons for wanting castration and the appropriate minimum ages.

I didnt really want them removed until puberty had started, but i sure would not have minded if they were removed at that point. It would have saved me years of frustration. I would agree that i always still wanted to be male, and never had or have had desires to femanize or loose my penis. But as I have aged I am now also in favor of having low testoserone and having been on siterone for 2 years think that having stopped T at puberty would also have been a good thing for me.

I don't know how old you are, but I started my pension last March.

My first recallection of castration was around age 8. I don't think that it was more than a week later when I went to the tack shed alone and banded my balls for the first time. I was curious. When the docking was done I asked why and the adults told me that it was done so the little boys couldn't make babies.

The next year at docking time, I'd ask about it and if I could be castrated. This disturbed my parents, and I was taken to a priest for a talk.

I didn't want children. Through college I had considered a vasectomy. My uncle and cousin went on "A Hunting trip" to another state and were cut together without their wives consent. Causing a stir in the family and the town.

I later got married, and had kids, for which I am greatful.

That Menopause word came around. I'm still horny as ever. The wife isn't. I still have the castration fantasy so, after the wife tried HRT, and didn't do well with it, I tried chemical castration.

Chemical castration didn't take away the desire for me only made the erection and ejaculation damn difficult.

As I left a sex club one night the attendant asked how I liked my stay, 6 ejaculations for a 60 year old wasn't all that bad.

In reality I have had the ability to castrate myself since back when elastrator bands were black and flat instead of green cheerios. I've been banding my balls for nearly 60 years but realize for me it's just a fantasy.

As for the priest that told me I was a shameful sinner that was going to hell.

I don't believe in his imaginary friends any more, much less that his holy spook tells me what to do.

Looking back I think the youngest age should be when you can understand the consequences.

I did not think I could qualify for a response then read the next post and the guy is 60. I'll be sixty four next month and have a similar answer. I hated my little dick when I was eleven at summer camp and saw all the other boys' penises flying around like rubber hoses. I didn't know much about sex but I knew I liked girls. What I didn't know is that girls like big dicks or certainly not micropenises. After having a daughter, a divorce, several relationships, I got a vasectomy. After the "last relationship" with a woman of eleven years, I started thinking about castration. Several years ago my therapist talked me out of this. Beginning a month ago, I was so mixed up being impotent with a lot of Paxil and my past bi sexual experiences, I was thinking some real crazy stuff. So I went to my new therapist (it was our first session) and demanded to be castrated. He sent me to the psych ward where I was deemed sane,depressed with an above average IQ. Hence, my story can only conclude one thing: if a boy is eleven and hates his penis, the parent should pick up on this and do something about it. What about the family doctor? Should there be a practise of asking the boy about his sex organ? I think so.

I have been following what seems to be a very poor outcome of someone who was castrated in their 20's which is usually considered old enough to make the decision. They do not want to take T and although other medications maybe influencing the situation, the person has fallen into an acute state of depression and has not been able to function. This seems to have happened about 2 months after castration. I guess that the T levels in a man in his early 20's are so much higher than say someone in his late forties that the risk of depression are greater.. as they drop. I know other non T eunuchs on here have been castrated without severe depression, but I believe that this individuals age has been an aggravating factor...

Legalities aside. I would suggest that early teens would be the minimum age in reality. The recent cases of the 2 young TS cases in Europe illustrate that young teens are very much sexually aware, if not active. Surely, the desire to be rid of ones balls is no more an outlandish desire than to be a girl, and yet the medical profession has listened to these young people and acted accordingly. Perhaps the medical profession should listen to any young teen (or older) who wishes to be castrated, and then guide them, especially with regards to health and hormones etc. so that they may enjoy life the way they wish, regardless of sexuality.

JesusA wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:12 am Here I would like to have some input from Archive members with BIID as to their thoughts about demanding that someone wait, and if so, for how long. At what age did YOU first want your testicles removed? How did you feel about waiting? Should someone who is not yet 18 (or 25) have to wait? Why? Why not?

I'll respond to this line of questioning. As a child I was quite content with the fact that visually I did not have testicles. they were there, but embedded deeply in me, I knew of them cause the doctors talked about them. I actually found them to be kind of disgusting on the boys I knew , when I saw them. I was glad that mine didn't show.

At 16 , when they were finally visible for a short time, I was deeply depressed, and very distraught due to their presence. I begged for them to be removed. Not just because of body image, but also due to the discomfort that they caused. The pain was no fun, and the barbaric treatments that I endured trying to "make them work ", in my teens only cemented my desire to be free of them.

For the several years that they were visible and attempting to stretch skin to accomodate them, I tried to avoid being seen nude. I was embarrassed that they had shown up, and felt unnatural with them there. By the time I was 20 they had retreated back into the inguinal canals. and for the most part were there for the next 30 years. I again felt correct, and sought out sexual partners again.

Now that I have passed a full year since their removal, my only regret is that I didn't meet a doctor who would have done it much earlier in my life. Functionally I was HRT dependant and sterile anyway, and they were more often than not painful, its amazing to me how resistant the medical community is to make such a simple procedure available to a person like myself who could only benefit from castration.

In my life , owing to my own situation, I have had the fortune to know quite a few eunuchs, both natural ones, and those created by surgery or accident. There are myriad ways that a male can find himself ball less, and just as many reasons for choosing that option. I know of only one who truly regrets the decision to remove them, and that is largely coupled with a bad mix of male and female hormones, and antidepressants that have left him somewhat immune to the benefits of testosterone. I think that if that issue were resolved, his regrets would fade away quickly.

In my own case, I was making the right decision at age 16 when I was begging to be castrated, as it would have eliminated years of discomfort from both pain , and the emotional trauma of having this part of me that I wasn't supposed to have. I am not sure that all guys are equipped to make that decision at that age, but many are, and truthfully with proper counseling and support there is no reason why a 16 year old would not be prepared to make that life changing decision. I do believe that young straight or gay men who opt for castration should bank sperm , "just in case" they want children later, but no one requires that you use it.

As to depression, well, that is something that needs to be dealt with , most easily by small doses of Testosterone, but also with other drugs as well. Continued therapy as they transition from male to eunuch is also a good idea.

I feel that I am a well rounded person , with widely varied interests , who just happens to be a eunuch. It is part of my everyday life, but does not consume it. I strive to assist those who are struggling with the decision, and make their own choice a bit easier. For me, removing my tiny shriveled testicles in 2008 was the cure for the one thing that really messed with my life. My body and mind are now in accord, and I am the happiest I have ever been in all my years. It does help too, to be pain free, but its the lifting of the weight that having an incorrect body part caused that really is the best change.

Raymar