EA Forums

Taken from WDIV Channel 4 Detroit (http://www.wdiv.com)

Orginal Story Plus some news video (http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/news/ ... 90633.html)

Castration Investigation May Include More Victims

Suspect Says He Learned Surgery From Grandparents

Posted: 10:42 a.m. EDT June 11, 2002

Updated: 8:39 p.m. EDT June 11, 2002

OAK PARK, Mich.-- A 48-year-old Birmingham man is recovering Tuesday after undergoing a castration procedure he arranged to have done by an amateur surgeon, Local 4 reported.

Police say the procedure was performed on a dining room table inside an Oak Park home early Saturday morning by a 29-year-old man.

Lt. Bruce Smith said that the victim was found in front of the home with heavy blood stains on the front of his pants. When asked what happened the man allegedly told officers that he had undergone a voluntary castration two hours earlier.

Investigators later searched the suspect's home and said that they found enough medical equipment and drugs to perform surgery. Authorities said that the suspect is not a licensed doctor.

The man told officers that he is from Taiwan and that he learned to perform surgery from his grandparents, who were doctors. He performed his first procedure on a dog in Australia several years ago, Local 4 reported.

The victim arranged to meet the suspect over the Internet, Local 4 reported.

Smith said that investigators found a pair of severed testicles in a Tupperware container in the suspect's refrigerator, which he reportedly says were from another man he castrated last week. That procedure was done inside a van, Local 4 reported.

Psychiatrist Gerald Shiener said that there are some men who are so uncomfortable with sexual issues that they would rather undergo castration.

"There are always a handful of people who are so uncomfortable with sexual issues or so afraid of sexual issues that their only solution or only way out is to have those things cut out of them or cut off," said Shiener.

The suspect told detectives that he has performed similar surgeries on at least 50 other men. He said that Saturday's incident was the first in Oak Park.

The Oakland County prosecutor is considering charges.

Well I hope some people realize that even an experianced cutter can make mistakes. Things CAN and DO go wrong ocassionally.

There is a lot of this community that wants to be castrated in other than a doctor's office. Most of the time everything goes ok, but it only takes one bad one like the one above that can set our cause back. What we need is not more cutters but more doctors that are willing to do castrations. Remember no operation is 100% and doctors practice medicine. If you are going to get castrated do it safely. I am scheduled to see Dr's Spector and Kimmel this September.

Good luck to you all and remember to play safe.

Riverwind

And not only does this raise the level of public awareness, to some degree, it also puts a bad light on in-home cutters and throws the eunuch or wannabe into an unwelcome spotlight in today's narrow-minded world.

I don't know if this story is in the mainstream press or not, but coming so soon (yea, call it soon...) on the heels of the Ed Bodkin story, it's not really a good thing. Add to this the GQ magazine article with Gelding some time ago, and it's a pretty strange mix.

It also raises the suspiscion level, especially since this case involves the man saying that he met his cutter via the Internet.

I'm not saying that this is a total disaster or anything, but I don't really think it's a good thing for the Community as a whole.

Just be careful, people. That's all I want to say.

I would have to agree, this does not help the community out very well.

So far it has only appeared on 1 of 5 TV channels in the area, and isn't a major headline in the local papers. It took 3 days for it to be mentioned on the news. I plan on monitoring the local news to see what else develops from there.

This has definitely made me really reconsider the whole issue of castration. At the moment I would have to say that I'm leaning towards Dr. Spector and Kimmel (http://www.felixspector.com/).

FYI.

I have been in contact with the guy that was cut. He is out of the hospital and healing OK. Hopefully he will post some comments and his experiences shortly, as a learning experience for everyone.

As for the cutter, we will have to wait and see what happens to him. Some of the information disagrees what I was told by the cutter.

Perhaps the best approach to using an anonymus cutter is to learn about the proper procedure yourself and discuss the plans with the cutter prior the event. I would also suggest that you have a friend accompany you to the castration who also knows about the procedure. Of course this won't completely protect anyone from ending up in a bad way but it will always be a risky procedure largely due to the legal ramifications.

Here is a article taken from the local newspapers

The Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/)

Orginal Article (http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/ncast12_20020612.htm)

Police shocked by a castration that went awry

Birmingham man sought out surgery

June 12, 2002

BY JOHN MASSON AND AMY KLEIN

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

It wasin his low-slung Oak Park home, he told police, that he quietly performed a castration on a man who contacted him through the Internet.

The 29-year-old Taiwanese national told police he had performed about 50 castrations before his kitchen-table operation on a 48-year-old Birmingham man went wrong.

Now, police are trying to figure out whether a crime was committed.

The man, who said he performed castrations both here and in his previous home in Australia, told police Saturday he had finished the procedure and the two men were enjoying a postoperative piece of pie when the Birmingham man started laughing.

Then he started bleeding.

The men couldn't stanch the flow. At about 5 a.m. the newly castrated man stepped out to the street. Someone called police, who found him sitting on the curb in a pair of blood-soaked blue jeans.

He said he'd been voluntarily castrated a couple of hours earlier in the nearby ranch house.

Inside, police found two human testicles in a container in the refrigerator.

"I can't even imagine this," said Lt. Bruce Smith, head of the Oak Park Public Safety Department's detective bureau. "It's bewildering to me."

Investigators aren't releasing either man's name until they sort out whether a crime was committed. Likewise, investigators don't know why the Birmingham man went under the knife.

Criminal or not, home castration is not unheard of.

Several Web sites are devoted to the subject, which some men pursue for erotic reasons. The Birmingham man gave investigators the name of one such Web site.

Dr. Jonathan Metzl, a professor in psychiatry and women's studies at the University of Michigan, said the desire to be castrated could stem from a number of psychiatric disorders.

People who suffer from gender identity disorder feel they are living in the body of the wrong sex and are disgusted by their own genitals, Metzl said. Or, a man with an obsessive-compulsive disorder could feel that his genitals are dirty, he said.

"This is very rare," Metzl said. "The fear of castration is much more prevalent than actual castration."

Self-castrations tend to be more common than leaving the job to someone else, said Dr. Dana Ohl, a urologist at the U-M Medical Center who has operated on botched amateur castrations.

"Usually, when these people just chop their own testicle off, they don't pay attention to the blood supply," he said.

The Birmingham man is out of the hospital and recovering after several hours of emergency surgery Saturday morning. The would-be surgeon, who overstayed his visa, has been released as the investigation continues.

"We may not be able to prosecute this guy," Smith said.

Legally, according to Jim Halushka of the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office, you can't commit a criminal assault on a consenting person.

But other legal options are being explored, Halushka said. Police found a bottle labeled "zylocaine" in the Oak Park house, which is being tested in case a prescription-drug law was violated.

Another possibility is a charge of practicing medicine without a license.

Either way, the would-be surgeon has overstayed a student visa by about a year, Halushka said, and that information has been turned over to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

"This makes no sense," Halushka said. "This is just too weird."

It will be interesting to find out what happens to the cutter after everthing is resolved.

Hi, all.

I am "the person involved", and yes I'm now resting comfortably at home. I thought I had taken the proper precautions beforehand in that I had checked out his references and discussed the operation with him.

The doctor who fixed the damage said he did a really good job on my right nut in terms of tying things up, suturing, etc. It was when bleeding started on the left side a couple of hours after the operation that he was in over his head. So even if a cutter is knowledgable enough to perform a simple castration, he can be caught out if something unexpected happens.

Luckily I got to the hospital in time so I'm fine now, but there is a lesson here about using a licensed practitioner in a medical setting for your castration. Yeah, I know a real doc won't be willing to put up with your favorite "scene", but it beats winding up dead, which I could have if I had gone without treatment much longer.

I'll be posting more thoughts later on.

And rest assured I left the EA out of my statements to the police, since the EA was not involved in any way with this affair.

Don (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:53 pm I'll be posting more thoughts later on.

And rest assured I left the EA out of my statements to the police, since the EA was not involved in any way with this affair.

I am very very happy that you are now recovering and will sooner or later be healed. I assume from the newspaer stories that the bleeding occured AFTER both testicles were removed? If so, you are now a eunuch, and I hope the result is what you are looking for, and will make your ordeal worthwhile.

All of which points out again that we need more legal doctors willing to do this operation on consenting adults, since not everyone can afford a trip to Philadelphia.

Don,

Glad to hear that you're recovering. As the old saying goes, even the best laid plans can go astray. I'd send ya an online get-well-soon e-card, but those usually result in tons of spam coming in to you so I won't!

:redbounce

The story made it to Minneapolis talk radio this morning, so it is on the the ABC news wire.

talula

I am the news director for a radio station in North East Michigan. This story popped up on my morning news feed, and my boss said it came down the pipe as a special feed yesterday. Even though you may not have mentioned the EA the wire story did.

Being that my radio station is not a shock and rock station I did not run the story. BUT expect the number of hits on the archive to jump soon.

Don (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:53 pm And rest assured I left the EA out of my statements to the police, since the EA was not involved in any way with this affair.

I am not sure what others might think, but I (OPINION! OPINION!!) would see no reason NOT to mention The Eunuch Archives. If people come here, they will find a HUGE spectrum of opinions, from those who suggest the best way to get castrated by the underground cutters, to those like me who advocate the services of Drs Spector and Kimmel, Or the Thailand surgeons. Not to mention some who might discourage the idea entirely and advocate to leave it a fantasy. The EA doesn't need publicity, but in my opinion there is no reason to avoid it. The EA DOES supply an enormous service to the Eunuch Community, and we should give thanks to that hard-working trio that makes it possible.

Andrew

I agree the EA performs a great service to the community. I just meant I kep

Don (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:53 pm t the EA out of my statements to the police

in the sense that I don't want any harassment by our duly consituted authorities of the best source of information around. In the meantime, if they want to worry about some Yahoo groups that never get any traffic, let them.

Yes, I have to say that this:

luvpain (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:51 pm Several Web sites are devoted to the subject, which some men pursue for erotic reasons. The Birmingham man gave investigators the name of one such Web site.

really has me worried.

If anyone has a copy of any article or wire report that mentions the EA by name, please post or mail me a copy. Thus far I haven't found anything any more detailed than the news article posted above.

And, to any law enforcement agents or agencies, the EA does NOT act as a clearinghouse for "cutters" and anyone every asking advice or actively seeking a cutter has been told that ANY operation should only be done by a licensed professional.

So far I haven't seen any articles listing websites. However Arcane did mention it was given on the news wire he received at the radio station. Hopefully he will be so kind to post the article here.

I've only have found one more article from the local news here mentioning the castration.

From The Detroit News (http://www.detroitnews

luvpain (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:51 pm .com/)

Orginal Article (http://www.

detroitnews.com/2002/metro/0206/12/c02-512518.htm)

Police say Oak Park man admits to castrating 50 men

By David Shepardson / The Detroit News

OAK PARK -- A 29-year-old Oak Park man who castrated another man on his kitchen table told police he has castrated 50 men since 1994.

The local resident, who doesn't have medical training, was arrested Saturday morning after a 48-year-old man was found wearing blood-stained pants, said Bob Bauer, deputy director of the Oak Park Public Safety Department.

The resident told police that he met the men he had castrated through the Internet. Police have been unable to verify the man's claim of 50 castrations.

"We believe that the castration was a consensual act," Bauer said. "We don't know what his motivation was in performing the castration or why the other man wanted to be castrated."

After the procedure early Saturday morning in the 14000 block of Northfield, the two men ate strawberry pie together, Bauer said.

Police plan to re-interview the man who was castrated. He was taken to Providence Hospital, where he underwent a three-hour operation. He has since been released.

When police searched the Oak Park house, they found two testicles in a plastic container in a refrigerator. They were not those of the man who was castrated Saturday, Bauer said.

The man was arrested on suspicion

luvpain (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:51 pm of practicing medicine without a license,

Bauer said.

Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca said his office was reviewing the case.

"We are working with the Oak Park police to see what charges, if any, are appropriate," Gorcyca said.

As for my observations, meeting someone on the EA is very unlikely. You will have better luck meeting them on Yahoo, if you are an active member in the different groups.

I was wondering - If a guy had a botched castration, but refused to tell authorities who his cutter was, could he get in trouble?

Also, thanks to Andrew for his post -- that's very nice of you. There are, however, people out there who would like nothing more than to rid the world of websites like this and people like us.

Sex should be between a man and a woman, over 18, in a marriage, each with all of their respective parts. Praise God. Amen.

Luvpain:

Can you confirm that the person posting here as the person involved in this incident is in fact the person?

Bboy,

You keep talking like that, and I'm going to come up there and wash your mouth (and your ass) out with soap!

Bboy - Yes Don is actually the person involved with the Castration that went awry.

Happousai - I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be any charge brought against someone for not divulging the name of the cutter if something were to go wrong. As for why Don mentioned the name of the cutter was two fold. For 1, it was done at the cutters house, and he was found about 2 houses down. Second the cutter was on the verge of suicide after what happened that night. I do think more harm would have come out if he had committed suicide.

Personally I do think Don did his homework, and that it the cutter had been someone else, he would not be here with us today. It was just bad luck on both his and the cutter's part that things went awry that night. I personally would have let that cutter castrate me before all the events that had occurred. I have been at his mercy a few times in some Bondage/CBT session, and never once felt threaten by him.

As for my recommendation I still recommend that people see Dr. Spector & Dr.

luvpain (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:07 pm Kimmel (http://www.felixspector.com/)

if they want to be done. It is the safest method out there. Although I do understand the need for underground cutters, since not everyone can afford to head to Philly and be cut professionally. Maybe someday people's attitude will change and there will be more understanding about guys wanting to become eunuchs, and more professional doctors that will do the job.

Bboy wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:34 am Sex should be between a man and a woman, over 18, in a marriage, each with all of their respective parts. Praise God. Amen.

Luvpain:

You are right, except for the part about needing all of their respective parts. Certain of those parts are occasionally removed for medical reasons. A committed marital relationship should not depend on the existance of essential sexual parts.

Thanks, Luvpain, for vouching for me.

I've consistently answered the questions the police have asked honestly, but I haven't volunteered information. If I had been dropped off at the ER door with no way to connect me to the street in question I might not have given out the location of the house where it happened, but as I was found on the street, and with the possibility (probability) of suicide, I decided that was the better course at the time. Of course, reasonable people could draw the opposite conclusion. I guess I didn't and don't think he should die just because we ran into some bad luck. I still think he's a talented cutter, and have heard from others this week who used his services without incident. As I say, just bad luck.

I don't want to sound disrespectful. I'm glad you found the strength and the method to achieve your dream. If I where in the same situation I don't think I'd be able to face it so honestly.

So please don't answer if you don't want to. I'm just some guy with a wacky curiosity.

What was it that made you laugh?

As you all know by know I am taking Androcur and under Doctors care and advise, I will be see Dr Kimmel this Sept 6th and taking a friend along for camera work and moral support.

I looked into cutters, tried a couple of times to castrated myself, when I came to the conclusion that, that was stupid.

It is unfortanet that we have lost another cutter but I would reather see the medical community step up to the plate and offer this kind of surgery at an afforidable price and have the option of where to go. Right now we only have two choises. Kimmel/Spector or a cutter. not much to choise from.

This whole insident makes me sad. We have a cutter that was tring to do good not harm and he will be gone for a while. We have Don who made all the news papers in his area which is somthing I know he wanted all to know.

The whole thing is just sad.

Well, the operation was over, we were just sitting around talking and joking, and I laughed. Of course I suppose I was feeling sort of jolly at the moment since I had finally become a eunuch. That did have me in a good mood

I guess they must have gotten that detail from the police from my cutter's statement. I'm sure I didn't mention that kind of detail to them (remember, just answer the questions honestly, don't volunteer anything)

JustOneQuestion (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:22 am I don't want to sound disrespectful. I'm glad you found the strength and the method to achieve your dream. If I where in the same situation I don't think I'd be able to face it so honestly.

So please don't answer if you don't want to. I'm just some guy with a wacky curiosity.

What was it that made you laugh?

Don,

I am glad your happy, I know I will probably laugh also when mine are finally gone. I will have a friend with me taking pictures and telling jokes so I know I will be laughing. I understand its a relief and emotions will let loose.

Riverwind the Happy Eunuch