EA Forums

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:57 pm**

I have, of course, been reading the pros and cons, visited other web sites, talked with other men who are

hypogonadal for one reason or another, and in general have tried to do my homework. Thirteen months after

castration, I am still getting hot flashes. Due to the stress I am under, from the circumstances of having to file a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, I am still flashing every hour or so. The flashes alternate between mild and serious. At night I sleep through the mild ones, and wake up every two hours from the serious ones. I am having major problems from my lack of sleep. The weather in LA is hot and getting hotter. I work in hot conditions 8 hours a day at the Post Office, and my flashing shows no signs whatever of abating in frequency or intensity.

Donna Garnier, my physician, has discussed options with me, and on 25 June I began estrogen, 1.25 mg. of Premarin per day, taken with supper.

Whilst some studies have been done on men who take estrogen in the aftermath of prostate cancer, the studies tend to be incomplete, contradict each other, and pretty much leave it up to you to decide what is best. The main advantage is that it will work for about 70% of the men suffering from hot flashes. The disadvantage is that one might be in the 30% for whom it is a waste of time and money. It may or may not also help in thwarting osteoporosis. There have been no reliable studies done on whether men taking estrogen benefit in the battle

against osteoporosis. The biology of the hypogonadal male and hypogonadal female are similar but not identical, and what works for one may not work for the other.

Donna and I discussed other potential side effects. Although some studies have suggested that there might be an increased chance of heart attack or stroke, Donna doubts this would ever be a problem. She measured my blood pressure at 105/60. My cholesterol is great, and my weight is now down to 175 pounds, the lowest I have been in years. My diet and exercise program is working fine, although I am quite aware that weight loss is the easy part and that keeping it off is the hard part.

Another potential side effect is mild feminization of the body, including gynecomastia.

The most serious side effect may be psychological. Most men with prostate cancer who have taken estrogen as part of their therapy report that there are changes in feelings and attitudes that may be unacceptable to non-transgendered males. This may adversely effect my current "eunuch calm". If it gets bad enough, I will discontinue the therapy. In any case, Donna and I plan to discontinue the therapy anyhow once the summer is over and cooler conditions prevail.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:14 pm**

<Snippetty snip>.....

Andrew (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:57 pm Donna Garnier, my physician, has discussed options with me, and on 25 June I began estrogen, 1.25 mg. of Premarin per day, taken with supper.

.............. <snippetty snip>......

Andrew (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:57 pm Another potential side effect is mild feminization of the body, including gynecomastia.

The most serious side effect may be psychological. Most men with prostate cancer who have taken estrogen as part of their therapy report that there are changes in feelings and attitudes that may be unacceptable to non-transgendered males. This may adversely effect my current "eunuch calm". If it gets bad enough, I will discontinue the therapy. In any case, Donna and I plan to discontinue the therapy anyhow once the summer is over and cooler conditions prevail.

1.25 mg of Premarin...... low dose..... ¿¿¿¿..... not in my book!!

1.25 mg of premarin / day is quite a HIGH dose for someone with no testicles.

Having taken premarin for nearly 4 years, and seen the effect on my body, I would suggest that there is going to be quite a considerable chance of you gaining (suffering?) breast growth. Of course this DOES depend on the genetics of your body!! Some people have very little development, for others it is very very dramatic!

The dose I have been on has mostly been 0.625 mg / day, but for about the first 12 months or so I took 1.25 mg/ day. The breast development I have had from this is dramatic to say the least, I am now a C cup. (Note:I also take an artificial progesterone to balance the Estrogen, I have been taking this for nearly 3 years.)

I have also had a dramatic change in my moods and sensitivity. I cry very easily, generally take a very very long time to anger, and when I do get angry it usually comes out in tears!

Remember tho, that I am transgendered so all of this feels very natural to me. I am not trying to put you off taking the Premarin, rather I am just trying to point out that the 'side effects' you mentioned as a possibility are very real and do develop in a lot of people that take this hormone. So monitoring what is happening to yourself is VITAL, and as you suggested, being prepared to stop the treatment if you do not like the effect is a very good attitude to have.

Good luck, I hope it all works out the way you want it too. I also hope you get the hot flashes under control, they are the pits!!!!

BTW, I mentioned that I also take an artificial Progesterone, there are a few of reasons for this,

1. I found that on Premarin alone my nails were dry, flakey and simply fell apart all the time (for a girl this is a DISASTER!!, just look at how most women react when we break a nail!)

2. My breasts had developed to a B cup, but were very very pointy, Progesterone helps in the development of rounded full breasts.

3. Some studies have shown that being on non opposed Estrogen can result in a much increased risk of developing breast cancer, as the breasts do not mature properly, and breast cancers are usually Estrogen sensitive. Haveing the balance of Progesterone & Estrogen has been shown to have a much lower risk of developing breast cancer.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:44 pm**

Pippa (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:14 pm Good luck, I hope it all works out the way you want it too. I also hope you get the hot flashes under control, they are the pits!!!!

Thank you for your reply.

I do not worry about gynecomastia, one way or the other. In any case, both my Mother and Sister are "B" cups so my current "A" is likely to be the maximum for me anyhow.

I doubt if my physician would prescibe progestine, unless it would also help with the hot flashes. Does it?

As of today, Thursday morning 4 July, my hot flashes are no longer every hour or so. With the premarin they are every two hours or so, and do seem to be milder. This after 9 days of use. Donna wants me to take it for 30 days as it may take that long for the body to adjust.

I asume you read my posting in "Eunuch Central" on HRT?

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:41 pm**

Why can't we just accept the fact that people come in all different sizes and shapes and not be so concerned about our differences?That would be a wonderful attitude to have. Society also places too much emphasis on penis size. For both penis and breasts, small is beautiful and will do the job as well as large.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:54 am**

Mac (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:41 pm Why can't we just accept the fact that people come in all different sizes and shapes and not be so concerned about our differences?

If only guys could be less concerned about the size of a woman's breasts, there would be less need for harmful breast implant surgery.

Men with gynecomastia have problems also. Help can be found at...

http://www.gynecomastia.org/

Tell Merle I sent you.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 5:01 pm**

Andrew (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:54 am Men with gynecomastia have problems also. Help can be found at...

http://www.gynecomastia.org/

Tell Merle I sent you.

I have just been reading this VERY interesting site, however I was disappointed that Merle has fallen into the trap that so many people do, linking Transsexuality to sexuality rather than gender identity. I have E-mailed Merle about this, and eagerly await a response.

Here is one section of the E-mail I have sent:-

I would like to point out to you that Transsexuality (or Gender Dysphoria as it is now known) is actually a disorder of Gender Identity, not a sexual orientation. Transsexual people's sexuality comes in all flavours from asexual, bi sexual, hetrosexual, homosexual and lesbian. Transsexual people also may be born male, female or intersex, so they may be becoming either male, female or even androgenous.

Sexual orientation is all about the person that is attractive to the individual, whereas Gender Identity relates to how the person feels about themselves. The condition of Transsexuality is one where the individual feels that they belong to the 'opposite' physical sex, and it has been proven that for a person with pronounced Transsexuality (Gender Dysphoria) the only sucessful treatment is to alter the individuals body in an attempt to make their physical self match their Gender Identity.

Posted: **Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:58 pm**

As always, posted for information purposes only.

http://www.ustoo.com/articles/7a.html

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:05 pm**

Andrew (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:58 pm As always, posted for information purposes only.

http://

abclocal.go.com/wls/news/052002_hs_estrogen.html

Posted: **Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:16 pm**

Very interesting articles! So, now, direct oral estrogen creates high blood pressure -- that was very disheartening to read.

I read in someone's personal journal (sorry, cannot provide the direct public link) that taking female hormones made her (him) sterile and impotent. Does anyone else have experience or thoughts on this? If that was the case, why not just take estrogens for the long-term instead of Androcur and then ease off with lower doses? On the UK pharmacy website, it states that estrogen is added, with Androcur, in male to female transsexuals.

From what I read, Androcur is expensive but reversible. Estrogen is more affordable.

From "New Thoughts on the Use of Estrogens to Treat Prostate Cancer":

"A reasonable approach is to start with one 1 mcg patch and increase the dose each week until testosterone levels fall into the castrate range."

Again, is that a permanent castrate range? Do the testosterone levels come back up after discontinuing the patch use?

- Jim

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:36 am**

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:16 pm Very interesting articles! So, now, direct oral estrogen creates high blood pressure -- that was very disheartening to read.

Maybe, maybe not. I have a history of high blood pressure, now controlled by diet, exercise, and medication. On 25 June, the day I started the estrogen, she measured my blood pressure and found it at normal. But remember I have lost 20 pounds the last 9 months, which helps.

Today, Monday 15 July, after 3 weeks, she checked my pressure, and it is still normal. And anytime I want my blood pressure checked, I can have it done free at the local drug store or at the First Aid station at work.

Remember, the women in that study already had a history of CHD. Also, that study was on wowmen taking both estrogen AND progestin. An equally large study on women taking only estrogen is still in progress,with results to be announced in the year 2005.

Conclusion: Since there is no evidence that the sky is falling, I will continue my low level estrogen therapy, with proper monitoring by my physician.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:23 am**

Andrew,

You often speak of the 'eunuch calm'. It's a fact that high testosterone levels drive BP up. It's also a fact that pets and relaxation with fun hobbies do lower BP as well.

So between no T., the cat, and the estrogen - which would also help stamp out the T. made by the adrenals, you SHOULD be seeing a drop in BP. I don't know if you have any fun hobbies.

For the record, my own BP is usually 110/60 or so and seldom exceeds 130/90 even when I'm angry. That's also with constant time-release allergy meds in my system, which are documented to be culprits in driving BP up.

:p

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:24 pm**

Paolo wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:23 am Andrew,

You often speak of the 'eunuch calm'. It's a fact that high testosterone levels drive BP up. It's also a fact that pets and relaxation with fun hobbies do lower BP as well.

So between no T., the cat, and the estrogen - which would also help stamp out the T. made by the adrenals, you SHOULD be seeing a drop in BP. I don't know if you have any fun hobbies.

That would depend on how you define hobbies. But I have a strong interest in classical music, and listen to it all the time. I read a lot of books. But I do not have a TV set and rarely go to the movies. Hence my choice of smilies.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm**

Gentlemen:

It's good to know that your blood pressure is low. Mine is sky-high, sometimes a bit lower, and of course I am taking BP medicine. I'm also trying to lower it via diet and exercise.

From:

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:16 pm New Thoughts on the Use of Estrogens to Treat Prostate Cancer:

"Estrogens induce the release of proteins from the liver that cause high blood pressure. Renin and angiotensin act at the level of the kidney to then cause the body to retain salt and water. Estrogen increases the production of angiotensin by the liver. The extra salt and water can cause edema and high blood pressure."

This is what my concern is. Reading about estrogen patches, they don't have the ingestion "risks" of taking orally, but there are some other severe side effects of patches.

Again, I ask if anyone knows if estrogen hormone therapy leads to permanent sterility or permanent loss of erections. If estrogen indeed lowers BP (because it limits, decreases, or eliminates testosterone) it could be a potential wonder drug for those of us interested in methods, less drastic than castration -- and not permanent, who also have high BP.

Oh, I have birds...

Thanks!

- Jim

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:21 pm**

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm Gentlemen:

It's good to know that your blood pressure is low. Mine is sky-high, sometimes a bit lower, and of course I am taking BP medicine. I'm also trying to lower it via diet and exercise.

Actually, a week ago Monday, at my physician's office, I was so relaxed that she measured me at 100/60. I asked her to recheck it with another cuff, she did, still 100/60. I am RELAXED. The Eunuch Calm in action, or lack of action <G>.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:09 pm**

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm "Estrogens induce the release of proteins from the liver that cause high blood pressure. Renin and angiotensin act at the level of the kidney to then cause the body to retain salt and water. Estrogen increases the production of angiotensin by the liver. The extra salt and water can cause edema and high blood pressure."

This is what my concern is. Reading about estrogen patches, they don't have the ingestion "risks" of taking orally, but there are some other severe side effects of patches.

Again, I ask if anyone knows if estrogen hormone therapy leads to permanent sterility or permanent loss of erections. If estrogen indeed lowers BP (because it limits, decreases, or eliminates testosterone) it could be a potential wonder drug for those of us interested in methods, less drastic than castration -- and not permanent, who also have high BP.

Oral estrogen alone, in high enough doses, will lower testosterone levels to castration levels and may increase BP, but you can also expect the effects of feminization. Estradiol is the most potent of all the estrogens and can be easily tested in the blood. Transdermal estrogen patches are usually given to to those over 40, who have liver problems, high BP, or are at risk for blood clots. The patches are less harmful on the liver and reduce the risk of blood clots. But, as in MTF HRT, "2" 1.0mg patches must be worn simultaneously. A total of 4 patches per week must be worn, changed bi-weekly, and that can be more expensive than oral estrogen. You may have a skin reaction to the patch. The patch may start to itch or may fall off in the shower or in hot weather if you sweat a lot.

Spironolactone, a "diuretic", rids the body of excess salt and water, thus reducing the negative effects of oral estrogens on the liver when taken by itself. Spironolactone is also an anti-androgen and usually given as a mild anti-hypertensive treatment for high BP, but is also given in addition with estrogen in MTF hormone replacement therapy to lower testosterone levels and reduce the need for higher doses of estrogen.

As I have stated in others posts on this board, I had been self medicating myself for over a year with oral estrogen, transdermal estrogen patches, and spironolactone. During that time, I had reached the levels needed for castration and feminization. Although no blood test were taken during that time, all of the symptoms were evident,[eg. atrophy of the testicles, loss of erections, breast enlargement, reduction of body hair, softer skin etc.].

At the end of last year in December, I entered into a gender treatment program. I agreed with my doctors that I would follow there advice and would not use any medications unless they prescibed them. About four months passed, until May of this year, with no hormone use at all. During this time, everything seemed to return to my pre hormone use levels. The aggresion returned, the erections were back, testicles enlarged to normal, hair growth returned. In May blood tests were taken and I was started on low levels of estrogen. The blood test that was taken in May, showed that I had a testosterone level of 413, well within the range of normal male hormones. The test verified what I felt, that I had returned to a normal male hormone range.

As far as permanent reduction in sterility and erections goes, I have not had a sperm count taken and erections had returned to normal. From other posts that I have read, the loss of spontaneous and nocturnal erections if done over a long period of time, will lead to a permanently reduced size of the penis.

For 3 months now, I have been on an estrogen only dose[4mg daily] and have noticed a reduction in testicle size and less frequent erections. Last week my doctor increased my dose to 8mg estrogen and added 100mg spironolactone. I hope to see and feel more of the effects in the next couple of weeks and will keep you up to date if you like.

Chris

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:22 pm**

Chris,

Thank you for the information! Of course, I would vote for being kept up-to-date, and again thank you in advance.

May I ask what compelled you to see the doctors, since you mentioned "self-treatment" in the beginning of your post? Entering the gender treatment program?

- Jim

Posted: **Wed Jul 17, 2002 2:08 pm**

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:22 pm May I ask what compelled you to see the doctors, since you mentioned "self-treatment" in the beginning of your post?

Yes, I would be glad to answer that.

Before I started using hormones, I searched countless web sites for information regarding the typical dosage of cross- sexed hormonal use. Many of the web sites advised me that this should be monitored by a physician. This can be potenially dangerous, especially if one's health is in poor condition. Although I felt I was not in poor health, I was not in the best of shape. This was my first concern. So I made the decision to start myself on hormone without the care of a doctor. I had started on very small doses and worked my way up to the typical dose over many weeks time. After I had been on hormones for a while, I knew that this was what I had been searching for all of my life. Then I started to ask myself other questions. Was I harming my body and not knowing it, was I taking too much or too little? Only a doctor could answer these questions and do the proper blood tests to be sure. I felt a sense of guilt inside. How long could I go on by myself without the help of a doctor? This is when I made a decision to find a doctor that would help me.

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:22 pm Entering the gender treatment program?

My decision to enter into the gender treatment program is two-fold. First. Doctors that administer hormones, will not do so unless you are in a program and seeing a therapist. Second. In order to obtain GRS, at least here in the USA and Canada, you must have several letters of approval. One from your doctor stating that you have been on hormones for X amount of time, and a letter from at least two therapist's saying that you are ready for surgery and that this surgery is necessary to improve you quality of life. I realized the longer I wait to enter this program, the longer it will take to achieve my ultimate goals. This is what I truely desire in my life, and in order to get there, I must follow these rules.

The doctors in these programs follow the guidelines outlined in the HBSOC, [Harry Benjamin Standards Of Care]. These rules, however, are not set in stone, and may be adjusted to fit an individuals needs. Since I have been in this program, I have recieved nothing but positive results with the doctors and therapist's that I have been dealing with. The future looks bright for me and I see no reasons, other than money, that would keep me from reaching my goals.

Chris

Posted: **Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:16 pm**

Chris,

Thanks again!

Thanks for sharing your information and goals. Although I have not decided yet what course I will be taking, it seems mine is similar to yours. And - I am currently not in the best of shape either.

So, I have made some immediate changes like drastically reducing alcohol intake and revising my diet. I have noticed already that I am sleeping far better! As well, I have started exercising again but that is tough in the very humid desert monsoon season. One thing I hate is early-morning exercise but now I am forced to go out for a walk/jog.

I have tried some glandular therapy with some interesting results but am now interested in hormone (estrogen) to make myself more neutral. As much as I would like to see the end of erections, ejaculations, sex drive, and would like to find the "calm" Andrew speaks of, blood pressure is my main concern.

Please keep us posted on your ongoing results if you want.

- Jim

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:21 am**

It has been 8 days since my dosage was increased. I have noticed a firmness in my breasts and they are begining to get a little tender again. Also my labido and erections have decreased somewhat. These changes are very small but notable.

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:16 pm Although I have not decided yet what course I will be taking, it seems mine is similar to yours.

Please, I don't want to sound like a mother hen or something, but I strongly consider you to do some soul searching for yourself. Along with the castration like effects that you will get from taking estrogen, there are emotional changes that happen as well. There can be waves of emotion that can overcome you and for someone who identifies theirself as "male" this may be totally unacceptable. You may find yourself crying for no reason at all! If you feel that you have "female" qualities, like I do, then by all means this should be the right course of action for you.

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:16 pm I have tried some glandular therapy with some interesting results but am now interested in hormone (estrogen) to make myself more neutral. As much as I would like to see the end of erections, ejaculations, sex drive, and would like to find the "calm" Andrew speaks of, blood pressure is my main concern.

May I suggest another course of action to take if you are not 100% sure that estrogens are right for you. Spironolactone can give you all the effects of castration, plus the added benifit to reduce your BP, and it's a lot cheaper than Androcur! Some people have reported their skin to become very dry and get brittle nails, and you might get some breast growth, but nowhere near what you might get from estrogen and you won't have to deal with the emotions.

If you decide to go this route, and you don't want to invole a doctor, I would advise caution. Start yourself on a low dose, say 100mg a day, for 4-6 weeks and let your body adjust. It will take time for you to feel the effects, please do not over do it! If after 4-6 weeks you feel comfortable, and you have no problems, then you could increase the dose to 200mg a day. The maximum dose seems to be about 300mg, but I would suspect that you will feel the results before reaching this level. Each dose should be divided so that you take them twice a day. Don't take the last dose before going to bed or you will have to get up several times to go to the bathroom. Try to take the last dose around 6pm if you can. Again, this is only the results from my experience and as Andrew is fond of saying "Your Milage May Vary".

Thank's, and I hope I have given you a little bit more insight on your decisions.

Chris

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:18 pm**

Chris,

Thanks for the additional information. At first I was shocked by all the warnings of Spironolactone but have decided to give it a try -- in the very lowest dose, 25-mg. at first. I have also started estrogen therapy.

I suppose I identify myself as being male, or possibly someone asexual. I don't necessarily want to change myself into a Woman; however I do have strong Female feelings like you do.

Or, I identify with Women most often. Most of my life I have been interested in Female issues, Women's health, Women's political action organizations and I have participated in same. I took Female Psychology courses in college. Physically I have been jealous of the body parts and aspects of the Female body and disappointed that I lack them. I wish I could look pretty but not with make-up or clothing. While I like large and attractive penises on men and am strongly attracted towards them, I don't want one for myself. I sort of feel like I have a limited female heterosexual drive instead of a male bisexual drive (if that makes any sense). But, that couldn't be because I am still highly attracted to Women.

I do not have low self-esteem; I just want to change myself a little bit.

At this stage in my life, I prefer that erections, the urge to masturbate, etc. just go away or become lessened. For comfort, I hope to reduce the size of my testicles or tighten up the scrotum -- which can also be done temporarily via exercise. Breast growth is neither a positive or negative issue for me; I already have boobs from being overweight. If they get larger, it won't make much difference. If I am able to lose a lot of weight through changes in diet and increased exercise, they should also get smaller. It doesn't matter.

I thank you for your concern about "waves of emotions". I believe that I already have that anyway. My moods are in constant change. If I don't commit something to paper (or computer) I could change my whole outlook 15 minutes later or after a brief nap. In the long run, I do feel very submissive towards Women and would like to be closer to them spiritually whether I am taking drugs or not. Since I do go through so many changes, one would be correct guessing that sometimes I do believe I am Female --- but thinking that at 100% strength does not occur often. Do I wish I was born Female? Yes, most of the time.

Thank you for being so kind to me and for your helpful suggestions. If there are any parallels between us, I'd like to know. I am very interested in the path you are taking --- as much as you want to reveal about yourself.

- Jim

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2002 10:21 am**

Well it's been almost 3 weeks now since my doctor increased the dose of medication. I have notice some changes already. This past week has been very busy for me at work, so I have been focused on my job all of the time. When I finally got time to relax this weekend I noticed that I was no longer having erections and the urge to masterbate was gone. I'm not sure on what day this happened, but I am glad that I don't have those thought's on my mind anymore.

Chris

Posted: **Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:24 pm**

Just generally,

I am wondering if not using the tool -- ignoring the penis, not wishing for erections, etc. helps to contribute to maintaining it in its' small size. By this I mean, the longer one ignores it -- perhaps it just doesn't grow anymore.

Could this be a psychological or is it physiological phenomenon?

And of course the benefits of HRT and testosterone-reducing drugs or minerals will give some results, but I am wondering if ultimately the brain is responsible for reducing the amount of erections or eliminating them all together. Would that follow? Would estrogen change one's thinking process to where the male genitals become "rusty", "ignored", and left to atrophy?

Just sort of rambling on in thoughts here this early A.M.

- Jim

Posted: **Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:52 pm**

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:24 pm I am wondering if not using the tool -- ignoring the penis, not wishing for erections, etc. helps to contribute to maintaining it in its' small size. By this I mean, the longer one ignores it -- perhaps it just doesn't grow anymore.

If you can manage to stop the erections you can accomplish having the penis shrink

slave_jim (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:24 pm Could this be a psychological or is it physiological phenomenon?

And of course the benefits of HRT and testosterone-reducing drugs or minerals will give some results, but I am wondering if ultimately the brain is responsible for reducing the amount of erections or eliminating them all together. Would that follow? Would estrogen change one's thinking process to where the male genitals become "rusty", "ignored", and left to atrophy?

I think it is a little of both the psychological and physiological phenomenon. In my case it seems to be more physiological than psychological.

I have no problems in preventing erections throughout the day, I usually don't get erections during the day unless I get really turned on by something I read or saw, or spend the time and energy stroking my dick.

However that be told I usually get 2-4 erections (that I know of) during the night, and they are not caused because of some wild dream (from what I can tell). All I know is I hate getting them at night as they usually wake me up.

I would conclude that it would be very hard to stop getting erections unless you lower or eliminate the Testosterone from your body, or find same way to damage penis or prostrate so you become impotent.

Posted: **Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:32 am**

You are right Luvpain, the average male gets 4 to 5 nocturnal erections every night, most men sleep right through them, I for one did not. Each erection would wake me up and in the last couple of years they were becoming more and more painful. Last September I started on Androcur, a castration drug. The second week I was waking up because of that nocturnal erection thing but my member was limp.

With out erections day or night awake or asleep you will start a study decline in the size of your penis. Most of the guys I have talked to that have made the transition from Male to Eunuch really don't want the erections and don't mind the small penis.

Now those guys that get cut and take HRT dose not figure in this as they will still be getting erections and will have days that there horny.

:tongueout :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout

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