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Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am
by guy26 (imported)
Ever since I was a young teenager I have been driven toward castration. I never truly felt like a guy, but I sure as hell didn't feel like a woman either! (Not that there would be anything wrong with feeling like a woman, but it would be a much more difficult journey.) Once I hit puberty, I largely felt unique and I didn't identify with anyone in my every day life. Things were made worse because I had bipolar. And when I sometimes experienced hypersexuality during hypomania, it would greatly enhance the gender incongruity that I felt. And consequently, I would feel extremely driven toward castration. At other times, the drive toward castration was like a pressure cooker that was relentless and slowly built in pressure over the months and years.

Eventually I tried depo provera a few times on my own and without supervision. It was amazingly effective at eliminating the gender incongruity. It was a major relief to have how I felt brought in line with who I was. At most I would take it for a few months and stop when I got scared. And once I stopped, I would experience extreme bipolar symptoms for 6 months. It was a high price to pay for relief. But sometimes it was something that just had to be done.

I tried reaching out for professional help about 7 years ago. It wasn't until the last couple of years did I find a therapist that was helpful. Because gender has a tendency to be regarded as a binary concept of men and women, it took a while for my therapist to really understand what was going on. After about 6 months of seeing him, I crossed the threshold of what I could tolerate and ended up injecting both of my testicals each with 3cc of everclear! Because of the immediacy of the situation, I worked with my family doctor and therapist to prescribe something to lower my testosterone. My family doctor consulted with an endocrinologist on an alternative to depo provera. He prescribed 1mg/0.2mL of leuprolide acetate.

Leuprolide acetate is a very powerful anti-androgen! It can easily take you to castrate levels in a hurry, but ironically it raises your testosterone levels by about 150% for up to a week. Something unusual happened for me during this time. For the first time in life I felt like a guy!! I ended up taking the leuprolide acetate for a month and stopped. The gender incongruity reached an all time low when I was as castrate levels. And I continued to see my therapist over the coming months as my testosterone climbed back up to normal levels. We talked a lot about those few short few days of feeling like a guy. Eventually we mutually wondered whether it would be physiologically reasonably to increase my testosterone to a level where I might feel like a guy.

It took a few months, but I managed to find an endocrinologist willing to work with me and my therapist. Initially he was a little confused and made it very clear that he had never done anything like this before. He ran some blood work and wanted to be extra cautious about proceeding with raising my testosterone levels. Things came back okay and he prescribed me 1% testosterone gel and indicated for me to take 5g of it three times a week. I felt cautiously optimistic, but I also know that me and medication get along like oil and water.

It has been a few months since I started taking the testosterone and my life is profoundly changed. There is a massive difference between feeling like a guy for a few days versus feeling like a guy all the time! I had every intention of taking the testosterone 3x a week right from the start, but it was so effective it was overwhelming initially. I had to start out by taking it just once a week and slowly increasing it. I'm currently taking it every 3 days--e.g. Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Wednesday, etc. I've tried taking it a couple of times every other day and it still seems excessive in its ability to change who I am. There is absolutely nothing left of what my gender was; I feel 100% like a guy. I see my endocrinologist in a couple of weeks and I'll see whether he thinks I should just stick to taking it every 3 days or move up to taking it 3x a week. The only downside to taking it every 3 days is that it is much harder to remember when to take it.

Testosterone has not simply changed my sense of gender, it has had a lot of other effects. And many of them have come as a complete surprise.

1. Taking testosterone has eliminated my gender incongruity by changing who I am. Testosterone's ability to change my gender from very close to neutral to a man is both profound and intellectually a little scary. At first I had a lot of doubts about whether this was some kind of placebo effect or that I was deluding myself. It also didn't help that to the best of my knowledge, no one has reported this effect before. I have searched PubMed in vain trying to locate anyone that has purported such an effect. I have not found a single instance. I even talked to transgendered people that are biological male but feel they are a woman to see if they could relate to my situation. A couple of them tried taking testosterone initially thinking it might help, but they reported that it made their situation far worse and greatly exacerbated their gender identity dysphoria. If anyone out there has tried testosterone and felt that it was able to change your gender, I would love to talk to you.

Because the effect of testosterone in me is so consistent and strong in its ability to change my gender, I no longer have any doubts about this. I believe that my problem is not unique and that other people may also benefit from testosterone, but my problem may be very rare.

2. I feel an amazing and deep sense of peace and tranquility. It's like looking out over the most serene of landscapes and taking a deep breath and slowly exhaling. Or maybe its like visiting a monastery atop a high mountain in the himalayas.

Initially, it was so strong in its effect that I literally just wanted to cuddle or take a nap 3 to 4 hours after taking the testosterone. I never realized just how much background emotional chaos that I had until it was removed. It was like a constant flux of chaos. I have no idea why, but I haven't felt any bipolar symptoms since I started taking the testosterone. Even more surprisingly, my mood remained stable and normal when I got sick for one and a half weeks with bronchitis. Normally that kind of disruption in my sleep and that kind of suffering would wreak havoc on my mood.

I have no explanation for this effect. It is very consistent. The one down side initially is that I felt less motivated to do anything. I felt content to do nothing! I've learned to adapt and still get things done when I get home from work, so this isn't a bad thing per se. I have also noticed that things just don't bother me like they use to.

The thing that seems most surprising about this effect is that my endocrinologist was concerned that I would feel increased aggression and anger, especially considering my bipolar diagnosis. Given my experience so far, I can't even begin to imagine feeling that way. It is completely the opposite of how I have felt so far. Maybe with a massive increase in testosterone it would affect me differently?

3. How I relate to people has changed. This is hard to put into words and be precise about it, but I'll try anyway. Because I feel like a guy, I now relate to other guys in an unspoken way that I never did before. The first time I realized that I related to another guy I nearly cried. It was a profound moment in my life. I was no longer alone.

I have felt others act differently toward me in a nuanced way. Guys seem to be a little more open and friendly while women seem to be a little more distant. It could be that I'm acting differently and they are just responding to me accordingly. I don't know.

I have gotten some solicited and unsolicited feedback from others that have noticed a change in me. My other half doesn't think that I have changed all that much, but he has noticed that I carry myself more often in a masculine way. My mom says that I seem to be more at more ease and I am more confident in myself. My grandma (who knows nothing about the situation) said to me that I look and sound better and that there is just something different that she likes.

Internally I feel less compassionate and sympathy to the feelings of other people. I haven't done anything bad, but I feel less sensitive to others and their situation. This bothers me a little, but it isn't so obvious or noticeable that anyone has called me out on it. I have always been a person that someone could turn to and I would listen to them intently for hours. That seems a little less likely with the changes I see.

4. When I look into the mirror. I see someone different. And I mean this quite literally. At first, it was a little shocking. It was like looking into the mirror and seeing someone else's reflection! I didn't physically look any different, but it didn't matter. I saw a man and it was someone else. I have now gotten use to the person that I see in the mirror. And it isn't shocking; it doesn't feel weird in any way; and it now feels like me.

5. I have always gotten cold easily. I find sitting in the office at 73F or below to be cold! And my hands and feet are often freezing to the touch, especially in the winter time. Things have changed since taking the testosterone. I feel a lot more tolerant to the cold. I have been surprised that I don't even feel cold at the office when it is 68F. This has been a completely unexpected side effect and something that I definitely don't mind!

6. My appetite has noticeably increased. I gained about 5lbs before I was able to get a handle on it. I switched to eating low calorie high volume foods so that I can eat a lot, feel full, and not consume a ton of calories. My weight has been stable at 140lbs for the last 10 years, so I'm very hesitant to allow my weight to change any amount.

7. Excessive body hair is something that would easily trip me up in the past and greatly increase my sense of gender identity dysphoria. Shaving and waxing body hair was something that I did from time to time because it helped me feel better. In fact, it was often a great relief!

This has definitely changed. The hair on my legs is well past the point that would send me over the edge and it doesn't bother me even a little. Lately I have even thought that it would be nice if I had more hair on my arms like most other guys. I would not have ever expected that testosterone would make me want more hair. That's almost unbelievable, but it is what it is.

Early on I felt so comfortable that I decided to try growing out my facial hair. I have never done this before in life. To my great surprise, it did not cause any problems. And even better, it reinforced the feeling that I am a guy, especially when I look into a mirror. My other half was not entirely keen on me growing facial hair, but virtually everyone else in my life celebrated this change. To them it was a very outward sign of the changes that I have felt inside.

8. One of the most unexpected side effects of testosterone is now how I feel around children. For the first time in life, I feel that I could be a father and have a healthy loving relationship with a child. I feel that being a father could be a great enriching life experience. Now don't get me wrong. This doesn't mean I *want* to be a father, just that I know I could be. Bringing a new life into the world or adopting a child is a stupendous decision that should never be taken lightly!

In the past, it has been hard for me to have or want any kind of relationship with kids, even kids within my own family. I always felt a certain amount of fear and anxiety around them. What I saw in them was emotional chaos and unpredictable behavior. It reminded me so much of an event that happened years ago while I was a high school senior and when I was a teacher's aid for a first grade teacher. That day and event has been with me ever since. A child that had a history of behavior problems began to get upset about having to stand in line with all of the other kids to go to the bathroom. Suddenly and without warning he started to attack the teacher. WIthout thinking I tackled him to the ground. As soon as I realized what I had done, I was going to release him but the teacher yelled at me to hold him down until the principal came. He was still wildly out of control. In that moment, I looked into his eyes and I saw not a child but an animal. It scared the hell out of me!

I'm not really sure how or why testosterone could make me feel more comfortable around children. I'm even less certain how it could give me the confidence to feel that I could be a father. I have talked about this with my therapist and I haven't come to any conclusions about it.

9. Recently I thought about the likelihood of exogenous testosterone causing my testicals to shrink over time. Before I would have been delighted about such a possibility, but I don't feel that way now. I feel slightly concerned about it, but not too much. I guess I wouldn't mind if they were the same size or bigger because it would more closely match with how I feel, but it isn't that big of a deal. My sense of gender identity has never been tied to whether I have testicals or even the size of them.

10. My endocrinologist was concerned that raising my testosterone level would increase my libido, which has been a problem during hypersexuality. There has been some increase in my libido, but it isn't entirely cut and dry. I feel more frequently sexual, but I feel less inclined to act out on it. In some ways, it seems like awash. How often I climax has gone up by about 50%, so it is noticeable and significant. But it isn't anything that my therapist or I have been concerned about so far.

There is a LOT of difference between hypersexuality and even if my sex drive were doubled. Hypersexuality completely reorientates my life such that there is only one reason for my existence--to climax. It rewrites all of my priorities and nothing is more important than sex. It is extreme and ridiculously dysfunctional and highly irritating. The increase in sex drive hasn't bothered me or caused any problems.

I don't think that testosterone has magically cured me of bipolar. I hope that it will make things better, but there is every possibility that I will experience hypersexuality in the future. How that plays out while on testosterone, I have no idea. It's something that my therapist and myself will have to keep an eye on.

11. I have always had stronger climaxes than the average guy. The first time someone sees me climax they think something is wrong and ask me if everything is okay. Like many people, there are times when I have even stronger climaxes. Immediately following the most intense orgasms, I feel tremendously bad. Not just a little bad, but REALLY bad and in a way that is hard to articulate. It's like being hit with a hammer, but without the pain. It has nothing to do with feeling ashamed, embarrassed, or any other reasonable explanation that would come to mind. It has happened many times over the years. And this bad feeling would last 30 minutes to an hour and then mysteriously disappear. It has been so intense at times that I would take a shower and cry uncontrollably. Some people call this problem Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS), which can also have other symptoms. It has only recently being studied and I haven't been diagnosed with it. But I have no better name to call it.

Anyway, one of the most surprising side effects of taking testosterone is that I have not had this happen! Initially when I started taking testosterone it made my climaxes MUCH stronger than on average. The first time it happened I just KNEW that I was going to feel like crap. It didn't happen. Then over the next week I climaxed several times and hard enough that it should have easily caused the problem. But nothing happened. I have absolutely no idea why this problem seems to be totally gone, but I am very thankful!

It is interesting that the intensity of orgasms have returned to normal. The more intense climaxes were just transient as I started to take testosterone.

12. Testosterone has eliminated the castration fixation. I don't feel any desire for it. In fact, it is almost a little repulsive. Before starting testosterone, I didn't honestly think that this was possible. I felt that castration was inevitable and something that was going to happen in the next 5 years or less. I just couldn't deal with the gender incongruity any longer. If someone told me a year ago that I would feel this way, I would not have even remotely believed them.

----

Honestly since I've started testosterone I haven't given too much thought to the things I have seen in myself. There are some rather obvious questions that just beg to be answered. Such as what are the moral and ethical implications of changing who you are? Or why would I choose to change who I am instead of lowering my testosterone? Why I am the only one that has reported that testosterone can change their gender identity?

As I have told others recently... Being normal isn't necessarily better, but it sure is a whole lot easier. Maybe it isn't necessary to have all the answers when happiness and peace fill your life. I have found in life that great pain and suffering lead to thoughtful contemplative thought. These things can be a journey that pencil in depth and meaning to ones life. Without that pain and suffering, the most pressing questions can come and go unanswered... even when they stare you in the face.

I am more than happy to answer any questions. And I'm more than happy to hear about your experiences and if and how you related to my experience.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:22 am
by Elizabeth (imported)
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am Ever since I was a young teenager I have been driven toward castration. I never truly felt like a guy, but I sure as hell didn't feel like a woman either! (Not that there would be anything wrong with feeling like a woman, but it would be a much more difficult journey.) Once I hit puberty, I largely felt unique and I didn't identify with anyone in my every day life. Things were made worse because I had bipolar. And when I sometimes experienced hypersexuality during hypomania, it would greatly enhance the gender incongruity that I felt. And consequently, I would feel extremely driven toward castration. At other times, the drive toward castration was like a pressure cooker that was relentless and slowly built in pressure over the months and years.

Eventually I tried depo provera a few times on my own and without supervision. It was amazingly effective at eliminating the gender incongruity. It was a major relief to have how I felt brought in line with who I was. At most I would take it for a few months and stop when I got scared. And once I stopped, I would experience extreme bipolar symptoms for 6 months. It was a high price to pay for relief. But sometimes it was something that just had to be done.

I tried reaching out for professional help about 7 years ago. It wasn't until the last couple of years did I find a therapist that was helpful. Because gender has a tendency to be regarded as a binary concept of men and women, it took a while for my therapist to really understand what was going on. After about 6 months of seeing him, I crossed the threshold of what I could tolerate and ended up injecting both of my testicals each with 3cc of everclear! Because of the immediacy of the situation, I worked with my family doctor and therapist to prescribe something to lower my testosterone. My family doctor consulted with an endocrinologist on an alternative to depo provera. He prescribed 1mg/0.2mL of leuprolide acetate.

Leuprolide acetate is a very powerful anti-androgen! It can easily take you to castrate levels in a hurry, but ironically it raises your testosterone levels by about 150% for up to a week. Something unusual happened for me during this time. For the first time in life I felt like a guy!! I ended up taking the leuprolide acetate for a month and stopped. The gender incongruity reached an all time low when I was as castrate levels. And I continued to see my therapist over the coming months as my testosterone climbed back up to normal levels. We talked a lot about those few short few days of feeling like a guy. Eventually we mutually wondered whether it would be physiologically reasonably to increase my testosterone to a level where I might feel like a guy.

It took a few months, but I managed to find an endocrinologist willing to work with me and my therapist. Initially he was a little confused and made it very clear that he had never done anything like this before. He ran some blood work and wanted to be extra cautious about proceeding with raising my testosterone levels. Things came back okay and he prescribed me 1% testosterone gel and indicated for me to take 5g of it three times a week. I felt cautiously optimistic, but I also know that me and medication get along like oil and water.

It has been a few months since I started taking the testosterone and my life is profoundly changed. There is a massive difference between feeling like a guy for a few days versus feeling like a guy all the time! I had every intention of taking the testosterone 3x a week right from the start, but it was so effective it was overwhelming initially. I had to start out by taking it just once a week and slowly increasing it. I'm currently taking it every 3 days--e.g. Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Wednesday, etc. I've tried taking it a couple of times every other day and it still seems excessive in its ability to change who I am. There is absolutely nothing left of what my gender was; I feel 100% like a guy. I see my endocrinologist in a couple of weeks and I'll see whether he thinks I should just stick to taking it every 3 days or move up to taking it 3x a week. The only downside to taking it every 3 days is that it is much harder to remember when to take it.

Testosterone has not simply changed my sense of gender, it has had a lot of other effects. And many of them have come as a complete surprise.

1. Taking testosterone has eliminated my gender incongruity by changing who I am. Testosterone's ability to change my gender from very close to neutral to a man is both profound and intellectually a little scary. At first I had a lot of doubts about whether this was some kind of placebo effect or that I was deluding myself. It also didn't help that to the best of my knowledge, no one has reported this effect before. I have searched PubMed in vain trying to locate anyone that has purported such an effect. I have not found a single instance. I even talked to transgendered people that are biological male but feel they are a woman to see if they could relate to my situation. A couple of them tried taking testosterone initially thinking it might help, but they reported that it made their situation far worse and greatly exacerbated their gender identity dysphoria. If anyone out there has tried testosterone and felt that it was able to change your gender, I would love to talk to you.

Because the effect of testosterone in me is so consistent and strong in its ability to change my gender, I no longer have any doubts about this. I believe that my problem is not unique and that other people may also benefit from testosterone, but my problem may be very rare.

2. I feel an amazing and deep sense of peace and tranquility. It's like looking out over the most serene of landscapes and taking a deep breath and slowly exhaling. Or maybe its like visiting a monastery atop a high mountain in the himalayas.

Initially, it was so strong in its effect that I literally just wanted to cuddle or take a nap 3 to 4 hours after taking the testosterone. I never realized just how much background emotional chaos that I had until it was removed. It was like a constant flux of chaos. I have no idea why, but I haven't felt any bipolar symptoms since I started taking the testosterone. Even more surprisingly, my mood remained stable and normal when I got sick for one and a half weeks with bronchitis. Normally that kind of disruption in my sleep and that kind of suffering would wreak havoc on my mood.

I have no explanation for this effect. It is very consistent. The one down side initially is that I felt less motivated to do anything. I felt content to do nothing! I've learned to adapt and still get things done when I get home from work, so this isn't a bad thing per se. I have also noticed that things just don't bother me like they use to.

The thing that seems most surprising about this effect is that my endocrinologist was concerned that I would feel increased aggression and anger, especially considering my bipolar diagnosis. Given my experience so far, I can't even begin to imagine feeling that way. It is completely the opposite of how I have felt so far. Maybe with a massive increase in testosterone it would affect me differently?

3. How I relate to people has changed. This is hard to put into words and be precise about it, but I'll try anyway. Because I feel like a guy, I now relate to other guys in an unspoken way that I never did before. The first time I realized that I related to another guy I nearly cried. It was a profound moment in my life. I was no longer alone.

I have felt others act differently toward me in a nuanced way. Guys seem to be a little more open and friendly while women seem to be a little more distant. It could be that I'm acting differently and they are just responding to me accordingly. I don't know.

I have gotten some solicited and unsolicited feedback from others that have noticed a change in me. My other half doesn't think that I have changed all that much, but he has noticed that I carry myself more often in a masculine way. My mom says that I seem to be more at more ease and I am more confident in myself. My grandma (who knows nothing about the situation) said to me that I look and sound better and that there is just something different that she likes.

Internally I feel less compassionate and sympathy to the feelings of other people. I haven't done anything bad, but I feel less sensitive to others and their situation. This bothers me a little, but it isn't so obvious or noticeable that anyone has called me out on it. I have always been a person that someone could turn to and I would listen to them intently for hours. That seems a little less likely with the changes I see.

4. When I look into the mirror. I see someone different. And I mean this quite literally. At first, it was a little shocking. It was like looking into the mirror and seeing someone else's reflection! I didn't physically look any different, but it didn't matter. I saw a man and it was someone else. I have now gotten use to the person that I see in the mirror. And it isn't shocking; it doesn't feel weird in any way; and it now feels like me.

5. I have always gotten cold easily. I find sitting in the office at 73F or below to be cold! And my hands and feet are often freezing to the touch, especially in the winter time. Things have changed since taking the testosterone. I feel a lot more tolerant to the cold. I have been surprised that I don't even feel cold at the office when it is 68F. This has been a completely unexpected side effect and something that I definitely don't mind!

6. My appetite has noticeably increased. I gained about 5lbs before I was able to get a handle on it. I switched to eating low calorie high volume foods so that I can eat a lot, feel full, and not consume a ton of calories. My weight has been stable at 140lbs for the last 10 years, so I'm very hesitant to allow my weight to change any amount.

7. Excessive body hair is something that would easily trip me up in the past and greatly increase my sense of gender identity dysphoria. Shaving and waxing body hair was something that I did from time to time because it helped me feel better. In fact, it was often a great relief!

This has definitely changed. The hair on my legs is well past the point that would send me over the edge and it doesn't bother me even a little. Lately I have even thought that it would be nice if I had more hair on my arms like most other guys. I would not have ever expected that testosterone would make me want more hair. That's almost unbelievable, but it is what it is.

Early on I felt so comfortable that I decided to try growing out my facial hair. I have never done this before in life. To my great surprise, it did not cause any problems. And even better, it reinforced the feeling that I am a guy, especially when I look into a mirror. My other half was not entirely keen on me growing facial hair, but virtually everyone else in my life celebrated this change. To them it was a very outward sign of the changes that I have felt inside.

8. One of the most unexpected side effects of testosterone is now how I feel around children. For the first time in life, I feel that I could be a father and have a healthy loving relationship with a child. I feel that being a father could be a great enriching life experience. Now don't get me wrong. This doesn't mean I *want* to be a father, just that I know I could be. Bringing a new life into the world or adopting a child is a stupendous decision that should never be taken lightly!

In the past, it has been hard for me to have or want any kind of relationship with kids, even kids within my own family. I always felt a certain amount of fear and anxiety around them. What I saw in them was emotional chaos and unpredictable behavior. It reminded me so much of an event that happened years ago while I was a high school senior and when I was a teacher's aid for a first grade teacher. That day and event has been with me ever since. A child that had a history of behavior problems began to get upset about having to stand in line with all of the other kids to go to the bathroom. Suddenly and without warning he started to attack the teacher. WIthout thinking I tackled him to the ground. As soon as I realized what I had done, I was going to release him but the teacher yelled at me to hold him down until the principal came. He was still wildly out of control. In that moment, I looked into his eyes and I saw not a child but an animal. It scared the hell out of me!

I'm not really sure how or why testosterone could make me feel more comfortable around children. I'm even less certain how it could give me the confidence to feel that I could be a father. I have talked about this with my therapist and I haven't come to any conclusions about it.

9. Recently I thought about the likelihood of exogenous testosterone causing my testicals to shrink over time. Before I would have been delighted about such a possibility, but I don't feel that way now. I feel slightly concerned about it, but not too much. I guess I wouldn't mind if they were the same size or bigger because it would more closely match with how I feel, but it isn't that big of a deal. My sense of gender identity has never been tied to whether I have testicals or even the size of them.

10. My endocrinologist was concerned that raising my testosterone level would increase my libido, which has been a problem during hypersexuality. There has been some increase in my libido, but it isn't entirely cut and dry. I feel more frequently sexual, but I feel less inclined to act out on it. In some ways, it seems like awash. How often I climax has gone up by about 50%, so it is noticeable and significant. But it isn't anything that my therapist or I have been concerned about so far.

There is a LOT of difference between hypersexuality and even if my sex drive were doubled. Hypersexuality completely reorientates my life such that there is only one reason for my existence--to climax. It rewrites all of my priorities and nothing is more important than sex. It is extreme and ridiculously dysfunctional and highly irritating. The increase in sex drive hasn't bothered me or caused any problems.

I don't think that testosterone has magically cured me of bipolar. I hope that it will make things better, but there is every possibility that I will experience hypersexuality in the future. How that plays out while on testosterone, I have no idea. It's something that my therapist and myself will have to keep an eye on.

11. I have always had stronger climaxes than the average guy. The first time someone sees me climax they think something is wrong and ask me if everything is okay. Like many people, there are times when I have even stronger climaxes. Immediately following the most intense orgasms, I feel tremendously bad. Not just a little bad, but REALLY bad and in a way that is hard to articulate. It's like being hit with a hammer, but without the pain. It has nothing to do with feeling ashamed, embarrassed, or any other reasonable explanation that would come to mind. It has happened many times over the years. And this bad feeling would last 30 minutes to an hour and then mysteriously disappear. It has been so intense at times that I would take a shower and cry uncontrollably. Some people call this problem Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS), which can also have other symptoms. It has only recently being studied and I haven't been diagnosed with it. But I have no better name to call it.

Anyway, one of the most surprising side effects of taking testosterone is that I have not had this happen! Initially when I started taking testosterone it made my climaxes MUCH stronger than on average. The first time it happened I just KNEW that I was going to feel like crap. It didn't happen. Then over the next week I climaxed several times and hard enough that it should have easily caused the problem. But nothing happened. I have absolutely no idea why this problem seems to be totally gone, but I am very thankful!

It is interesting that the intensity of orgasms have returned to normal. The more intense climaxes were just transient as I started to take testosterone.

12. Testosterone has eliminated the castration fixation. I don't feel any desire for it. In fact, it is almost a little repulsive. Before starting testosterone, I didn't honestly think that this was possible. I felt that castration was inevitable and something that was going to happen in the next 5 years or less. I just couldn't deal with the gender incongruity any longer. If someone told me a year ago that I would feel this way, I would not have even remotely believed them.

----

Honestly since I've started testosterone I haven't given too much thought to the things I have seen in myself. There are some rather obvious questions that just beg to be answered. Such as what are the moral and ethical implications of changing who you are? Or why would I choose to change who I am instead of lowering my testosterone? Why I am the only one that has reported that testosterone can change their gender identity?

As I have told others recently... Being normal isn't necessarily better, but it sure is a whole lot easier. Maybe it isn't necessary to have all the answers when happiness and peace fill your life. I have found in life that great pain and suffering lead to thoughtful contemplative thought. These things can be a journey that pencil in depth and meaning to ones life. Without that pain and suffering, the most pressing questions can come and go unanswered... even when they stare you in the face.

I am more than happy to answer any questions. And I'm more than happy to hear about your experiences and if and how you related to my experience.

I have heard your story many times before. You are not alone at all. The only difference is, I heard it from female to male transsexuals. So neutral to male makes perfect sense to me as well. I suggest you go to a few transsexual websites that have large female to male memberships. If you have trouble finding some, PM me and I will give you a few places to check out.

Elizabeth

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:00 am
by guy26 (imported)
Elizabeth (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 7:22 am I have heard your story many times before. You are not alone at all. The only difference is, I heard it from female to male transsexuals. So neutral to male makes perfect sense to me as well. I suggest you go to a few transsexual websites that have large female to male memberships. If you have trouble finding some, PM me and I will give you a few places to check out.

Elizabeth

I had not considered female to male transsexuals that started out as feeling fairly neutral. I could imagine that I have some things in common with them. I'll try putting out my story to a board I have visited several times and see if anyone responds. If not, I'll send you a private message.

Thank you for that insight. :)

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:53 am
by Wolf-Pup (imported)
What was your starting Testosterone levels? Were they low-normal or normal? I suffered from low testosterone and know going on T has made a positive impact on my life. It didn't affect gender, but had plenty of positive effects. One of which is mental clarity/acuity, It didn't make me feel more aggressive or any of the other negative stereotype things that get thrown out.

Taking T may shutdown your testicles, which if fertility is an issue you may want to think about freezing some sperm samples. If that happens, atrophy is possible as well (I know first hand). You can add HCG to the testosterone and it will keep the boys functioning and at their normal size. The Yahoo group hypogonadism2 has a lot of information about T and HCG.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:30 am
by tugon (imported)
Guy26 I remember some of your early posts and I am glad you found your correct path in this life. I am happy for you, congratulations.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:57 am
by guy26 (imported)
Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:53 am What was your starting Testosterone levels? Were they low-normal or normal? I suffered from low testosterone and know going on T has made a positive impact on my life. It didn't affect gender, but had plenty of positive effects. One of which is mental clarity/acuity, It didn't make me feel more aggressive or any of the other negative stereotype things that get thrown out.

Taking T may shutdown your testicles, which if fertility is an issue you may want to think about freezing some sperm samples. If that happens, atrophy is possible as well (I know first hand). You can add HCG to the testosterone and it will keep the boys functioning and at their normal size. The Yahoo group hypogonadism2 has a lot of information about T and HCG.

Right before I started testosterone my testosterone level was normal, but on the low side of normal. I have had it checked several times over the last 8 years. Except for the last time, it was almost exactly in the middle of the normal range. I have a feeling that it was taking a while for the effects of the leuprolide acetate that I took last year to completely wear off. I read some where that it can take up to 15 months to get back to 100% of where you started. After I stopped taking the leuprolide acetate, It felt like like after a couple of months I reached 70% of where I started from.

From my experience I have wondered about the aggression issue that some have experienced while taking steroids. Maybe this only has a tendency to happen when testosterone levels are far above what is considered normal? I have no desire to push the envelope on my testosterone levels. I just want to continue to feel normal!

I haven't noticed any change in my intellect or mental clarity or acuity. I have heard other guys with low testosterone indicate that they had a hard time focusing. The times that I experienced low testosterone because of anti-androgens I never felt anything like that. But then again I wasn't on them for long periods of time either.

Fertility isn't an issue, but you bring up a good point. I'm gay and I don't want kids. I don't see kids as the ticket to immortality and happiness. I have a strong feeling that I'm sterile anyway considering the damage that I did with injecting my balls with Everyclear. I don't know for sure though. I never checked to see if I was still fertile.

I don't know anything about HCG, but I'll do some research. Thanks for tidbit. The size of my balls isn't a huge concern, but I wouldn't mind if they stayed their current size now that I feel like a guy. It isn't too big of a deal to me. It matters far more that I feel like a guy.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:59 am
by guy26 (imported)
tugon (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 11:30 am Guy26 I remember some of your early posts and I am glad you found your correct path in this life. I am happy for you, congratulations.

Thanks Tugon! I appreciate that. It has been quite the journey to get to this point. My last two therapist appointments have felt almost like a celebration. My therapist could not be more happy for me and he has said that it is well deserved considering everything that I have been through.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:19 pm
by Wolf-Pup (imported)
Oh one other thing I just thought of...if your testicles do shutdown from taking exogenous testosterone, you may need to increase your dosage. Initially you benefit from both the T your body is making as well as the additional amount. When the testicles stop producing your levels can go down again. Just something to be on the lookout for.

Wolf-Pup

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:57 pm
by raymar2020 (imported)
Guy 26,

Like tugon, I remember your posts. You were really in quite a state. I am glad to hear that you have found a means to correct the problem. As others have stated, taking a supplemental testosterone may cause your body to reduce production, so be watching out for a drop in your T level. For those who use a supplemental dose there is often some loss in size of the testicles, but its not like they will simply dry up and disappear. We are talking a reduction of maybe 25%. That should still leave you in a position of being in a normal size range.

I spent many years on a low dose supplement because my testicles never worked. I find now that using a larger dose that more closely comes into the normal range that I feel much more male than before. Even though the testicles were removed,I still identify first as male.

It is sad that in this day and time, something so simple as adjusting testosterone levels is NOT a standard therapy for people with emotional/sexual issues. I am very pleased that your therapist was willing to experiment a bit. You should press them to write a paper on your case. Others could benefit from your experience, beyond this site. Thankfully you never were able to achieve castration, or now with correct therapy , you would have another issue to deal with.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Raymar

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:45 pm
by Hash (imported)
Guy26,

Here's something you need to consider and think about. If you still have your testicles, they will begin to shrink, because the topical testosterone will shut down your normal testosterone production, then you'll have to use more topical testosterone until eventually your own testicles won't make any at all. You'll be dependent on external testosterone for the rest of your life and it's not cheap.

If you go off the testosterone gel, your own testicles might eventually start producing "t" again, but maybe not, it depends on how long you stay on the external topical "t". A lot of male body builders who have used external testosterone for years, have testicles the size of peas, some have tried to go off it and use HCG to bring their testicles back to normal with no success.

Go to some body builder websites, very informative. http://www.steroidology.com/hcg-human-c ... adotropin/

Here's what happened to me before I was castrated. I had one remaining, though small and failing testicle and my endocrinologist decided to give me shots of "HCG" for a few months to actually force my testicle to pump out more testosterone and grow larger. It worked initially, but my remaining testicle had been so abused that it eventually failed, atrophied. That's when it was removed and I was fully castrated. http://testosteronewisdom.blogspot.com/ ... -size.html

However, in your case, had I been your endocrinologist, I would have recommended this course first, HCG injections, to see if your testicles would respond and increase the amount of testosterone that's produced. This is also what Tribulus Terrestis? does. (not sure of the spelling). Tribulus forces your testicles to produce more testosterone, but you've got to cycle this, use for a few days, off for a few days. http://www.bodyproject.com.au/do-you-kn ... t-booster/

Anyway, you're going to become completely dependent on external testosterone very soon and as a eunuch who's been on the external "t", I can tell you that it's not quite the same as the natural "t". So be careful with this stuff and do more research for yourself. Eventually, if you stay on external "t" for a long time, your testicles will shrink and shrink a lot to the point that you're actually a eunuch. Yes, a eunuch because your testicles are dead, tiny, atrophied.

"HCG may not only boost testosterone but also increase the number of Leydig cells in the testicles. It is well known that Leydig cell clusters in adult testes enlarge considerably under treatment with HCG. However, it has been uncertain in the past whether this expansion involves an increase in the number of Leydig cells or merely an enlargement of the individual cells. A study was performed in which adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were injected subcutaneously daily with 100 IU HCG for up to 5 weeks. The volume of Leydig cell clusters increased by a factor of 4.7 during the 5 weeks of HCG treatment. The number of Leydig cells (initially averaging 18.6 x 106/cm3 testis) increased to 3 times the control value by 5 weeks of treatment (P<0.001), while the average volume of individual Leydig cells (initially ~2200 µm3) enlarged only 1.6 times. They concluded that chronic treatment with HCG increases the number of Leydig cells in the testes of adult rats. We do not know if these results can be extrapolated to men."

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 pm
by guy26 (imported)
Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 2:19 pm Oh one other thing I just thought of...if your testicles do shutdown from taking exogenous testosterone, you may need to increase your dosage. Initially you benefit from both the T your body is making as well as the additional amount. When the testicles stop producing your levels can go down again. Just something to be on the lookout for.

Wolf-Pup

Thanks. That is a good point! So far it looks like taking testosterone about every three days to 3 times a week is just the right amount for me. As I told my therapist, it seems that my situation is a bit like goldilock's situation. Too little testosterone and it isn't effective all the time and too much
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am seems excessive in its ability to change who I am.

Originally when I got to taking testosterone twice a week on Wednesday and Saturday, I felt irritated all day on Tuesday. At first I didn't notice or think it was because of the testosterone, but after the third week I caught on. And
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am 4 hours after taking the testosterone
on Wednesdays, all of the irritation went away. Once I switched to taking it every three days, I didn't notice ANY problems in my mood. The other reason that I moved it up just slightly is that I felt on every Wednesday I had to choose whether I wanted to be a guy or not! The effect of feeling like a guy wore off by waiting that extra day. It felt confusing to have to make that decision every week! Moving to every three days has eliminated that too.

I'll let you know if I find that I have to increase the testosterone because my body stops producing as much.

Since I started taking testosterone, I have noticed something somewhat unexpected in terms how my testosterone level feels over time. Initially, it felt like my testosterone level went dramatically up after just a few hours of taking a dose of testosterone. Then it would stay relatively high and constant and start to fall rapidly back to normal after a day and a half. But over time things have seemed to smooth out and I notice a much more constant level. I don't know if this is my imagination or not. I prefer that my testosterone level feels even and constant.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:19 pm
by DavidB (imported)
I havent read your past posts, but I am glad to hear that you are feeling better about yourself, but I am also a bit confused. If you had normal T levels before you started the artifical T and now on an artifically high dose it doesnt seem to me that your issue was actually with T. It seems more likely that the artifically high T is addressing your bi-polar issues and thus really dealing with the side effects of your disorder then making you better.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:55 pm
by guy26 (imported)
raymar2020 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:57 pm Guy 26,

Like tugon, I remember your posts. You were really in quite a state. I am glad to hear that you have found a means to correct the problem. As others have stated, taking a supplemental testosterone may cause your body to reduce production, so be watching out for a drop in your T level. For those who use a supplemental dose there is often some loss in size of the testicles, but its not like they will simply dry up and disappear. We are talking a reduction of maybe 25%. That should still leave you in a position of being in a normal size range.

I spent many years on a low dose supplement because my testicles never worked. I find now that using a larger dose that more closely comes into the normal range that I feel much more male than before. Even though the testicles were removed,I still identify first as male.

It is sad that in this day and time, something so simple as adjusting testosterone levels is NOT a standard therapy for people with emotional/sexual issues. I am very pleased that your therapist was willing to experiment a bit. You should press them to write a paper on your case. Others could benefit from your experience, beyond this site. Thankfully you never were able to achieve castration, or now with correct therapy , you would have another issue to deal with.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Raymar

Hi Raymar,

It's interesting that you bring up the idea of my therapist writing a paper. A couple of times I have mentioned to him that I would be supportive if he wanted to write a paper for a professional journal. On several occasions I have searched PubMed and I have found very little information surrounding those being driven toward castration. Maybe after six months to a year and I'm still doing fine my therapist will be inspired to publish something?

In my opinion, more research and more information geared toward professionals would be welcomed. At the minimum it would increase awareness in the professional community and make it easier for others to seek help. On a side note, I am happy that the DSM-V is looking to make significant changes related to Gender Identity Disorders. I feel there is a lot of room for improvement.

I'm sure the abuse of testosterone by athletes has made it far more difficult for anyone to have access to it even when it is reasonable
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am . Given my experience so far, I
feel that the decision to take testosterone is a serious one and one that shouldn't be taken lightly. As with most medications, both the patient and doctor need to weigh the benefits against the risks.

I agree that I would feel a bit less like a guy without any nuts, but it isn't entirely tied to my sense of gender one way or the other. It's just better to have them because I now feel like a guy. So yeah, it's a good thing that I never went through with castration.

I will try to keep everyone up on my progress. With any luck, there won't be much to report! I'll just continue to feel like a guy!

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:08 pm
by guy26 (imported)
DavidB (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 8:19 pm I havent read your past posts, but I am glad to hear that you are feeling better about yourself, but I am also a bit confused. If you had normal T levels before you started the artifical T and now on an artifically high dose it doesnt seem to me that your issue was actually with T. It seems more likely that the artifically high T is addressing your bi-polar issues and thus really dealing with the side effects of your disorder then making you better.

The principal reason that I am taking the testosterone is to address gender identity dysphoria. It has surprisingly dampened mood and emotional problems arising from my bipolar disorder. But that is only an unexpected benefit and not the reason I am on testosterone.

I drew a picture for my therapist that might help to clarify the situation. You can look at it at this link -- . Keep in mind I wasn't trying to explain gender in its entirety. I don't purport to understand things like bigender and trigender. This is only a depiction to explain my situation.

Post Image Elsewhere Please, then provide a link

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...identity-1.jpg

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm
by janekane (imported)
In my view, oversimplifying a complex situation may lead to undesirable outcomes. The regulation of testosterone levels in "intact" human males is a seriously complex "situation," and is affected by many aspects of human genetics and the expression of genetics upon experienced quality of life. My background includes decades of intense study of biology, both theoretical and applied, and I, as I may have mentioned far too many times already, am licensed as a professional engineer in part by having a university degree in bioengineering, and I also have a bioengineering Ph.D.

Based on decades of study (I began studying biology at college level, with college and graduate school level sources, when I was 7 and starting third grade. So what?

What intrigued me by time I started third grade was the observation that no two of anything are actually the same; or, that diversity is the essence of existence. As a college student, majoring in physics during the end of my teen years, I came upon the math needed to make useful sense of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and thereby to formn some sort of useful-to-me grasp of the domain of definition of that principle. In toying with the math, the only way the Pauli Exclusion Principle has ever made any useful sense to me is that everything that exists is actually perfectly unique in forever, even though the mental models people make of things and events may be identical, identical models of events does not convey "identicality" onto what is being modeled.

Sorry about the way I worded that. Yet it is as good as I could make it.

I am exceedingly wary of offering diagnoses because I do not have anywhere near enough verified data to have a diagnostic clue. And yes, as an aspect of my work in theoretical biology, I have developed a diagnostic system, albeit not a system of differential diagnosis as is typical of allopathic medicine; my approach is of integral diagnosis, using biological pattern recognition approaches.

On the way to my Ph.D., I interacted with many physicians. One of them asked me for my diagnostic opinion regarding a "difficult case." After I had stated my integral diagnosis, the physician remarked to me, "You are as good at diagnosis as I am, but you have a different system." To which I replied, "The difference is, my system works."

So I found then, so I find ever since.

Were I to guess, I would guess that physicians do not yet make much, if any, use of "my system" because it requires a deep understanding of Bayes Theorem, biological pattern recognition classifiers and decision boundaries, ways of generating verifiable Bayesian priors, and especially formidable proficiency in doing accurate, high-dimension-space, complex-variable, relational tensor calculus.

Can anyone actually do that math? Methinks, yes. Why? Observe a superbly skilled athlete. There is now way that such an athlete thinks through in words exactly how and when to activate each and every individual motor neuron; such math is intuitive, I am guessing, even in a dinoflagellate.

So, if using androgen gel results in an improvement in your quality of life, my view is that you may wisely use it according to how your quality of life is optimized; wile allowing that the optimal "dose" for you may not be optimal for anyone else you will ever encounter.

My work in theoretical biology has led me to reject the commonplace understanding of medical/biological issues as being necessarily "disorders." Rather, I strongly favor an adaptive model, one in which genetic factors result in a repertoire of adaptive mechanisms which come into use in response to life events, and the adaptive mechanisms a particular person has may or may not allow for a satisfactory adaptation to life events. When internal adaptive mechanisms are unsatisfactory, I favor augmenting them with what may be deemed medicine and/or nutrition and/or behavioral modification.

If a testosterone level higher than your body's "testosterone homeostasis set point" is necessary for optimizing your quality of life, then gel augmentation and/or replacement seems very wise to me.

If varying levels are bothersome, I wonder whether dividing the gel dose into smaller, daily doses would give you a more consistent experience than a three day interval. That may be worth asking your prescribing physician...

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:56 pm
by guy26 (imported)
Hash (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 7:45 pm Guy26,

Here's something you need to consider and think about. If you still have your testicles, they will begin to shrink, because the topical testosterone will shut down your normal testosterone production, then you'll have to use more topical testosterone until eventually your own testicles won't make any at all. You'll be dependent on external testosterone for the rest of your life and it's not cheap.

If you go off the testosterone gel, your own testicles might eventually start producing "t" again, but maybe not, it depends on how long you stay on the external topical "t". A lot of male body builders who have used external testosterone for years, have testicles the size of peas, some have tried to go off it and use HCG to bring their testicles back to normal with no success.

Go to some body builder websites, very informative. http://www.steroidology.com/hcg-human-c ... adotropin/

Here's what happened to me before I was castrated. I had one remaining, though small and failing testicle and my endocrinologist decided to give me shots of "HCG" for a few months to actually force my testicle to pump out more testosterone and grow larger. It worked initially, but my remaining testicle had been so abused that it eventually failed, atrophied. That's when it was removed and I was fully castrated. http://testosteronewisdom.blogspot.com/ ... -size.html

However, in your case, had I been your endocrinologist, I would have recommended this course first, HCG injections, to see if your testicles would respond and increase the amount of testosterone that's produced. This is also what Tribulus Terrestis? does. (not sure of the spelling). Tribulus forces your testicles to produce more testosterone, but you've got to cycle this, use for a few days, off for a few days. http://www.bodyproject.com.au/do-you-kn ... t-booster/

Anyway, you're going to become completely dependent on external testosterone very soon and as a eunuch who's been on the external "t", I can tell you that it's not quite the same as the natural "t". So be careful with this stuff and do more research for yourself. Eventually, if you stay on external "t" for a long time, your testicles will shrink and shrink a lot to the point that you're actually a eunuch. Yes, a eunuch because your testicles are dead, tiny, atrophied.

"HCG may not only boost testosterone but also increase the number of Leydig cells in the testicles. It is well known that Leydig cell clusters in adult testes enlarge considerably under treatment with HCG. However, it has been uncertain in the past whether this expansion involves an increase in the number of Leydig cells or merely an enlargement of the individual cells. A study was performed in which adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were injected subcutaneously daily with 100 IU HCG for up to 5 weeks. The volume of Leydig cell clusters increased by a factor of 4.7 during the 5 weeks of HCG treatment. The number of Leydig cells (initially averaging 18.6 x 106/cm3 testis) increased to 3 times the control value by 5 weeks of treatment (P<0.001), while the average volume of individual Leydig cells (initially ~2200 µm3) enlarged only 1.6 times. They concluded that chronic treatment with HCG increases the number of Leydig cells in the testes of adult rats. We do not know if these results can be extrapolated to men."

I appreciate the more reserved if not more cautionary response. I have no doubt that there exists a risk that my testicles will stop functioning and I will become forever dependent on exogenous testosterone. So far the fact that I feel like a guy is nothing short of amazing and a huge benefit to
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am raising my testosterone level.
I feel normal in a way that I haven't since before puberty! If the ultimate cost over a long time is to lose normal sized functional testicles so that I can feel like a guy, it seems more than worth it to me. It also helps that whether they are there or how big they are isn't all that tied to how much of a guy that I feel I am.

I hope that my risk is less than male body builders that are raising their testosterone level far beyond what is considered within the normal range of an adult male. My risk may not be less though. I'm not even 100% sure if the amount I'm taking is beyond my testosterone homeostasis set point or not. Normally 5g of 1% of testosterone would be taking every day to get a castrate male into the half way point. I'm using the testosterone gel slightly more than twice a week. It is something that I should ask my endocrinologist about.

Once I had experienced
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am feeling like a guy for a few days
last year when I initially started the lueprolide acetate, I told my therapist that I would regret it later in life if that was the only time in life that I had felt like a guy. When I started the testosterone a few months ago, I literally started counting the days that I felt like a guy. I was that overjoyed. No one in my life completely understood how stupendous each new day was as a guy. I have stopped counting. Feeling like a guy every day isn't such a novel experience day after day. LoL. But I still find it profound on an intellectual level.

I agree that exogenous testosterone may not be exactly like the same thing. To me it seems better! Normal testosterone levels rise during the night and begin to fall in the early morning. When I began taking leuproide acetate over a year ago, I definitely noticed that my body was being forced to produce testosterone within hours of taking it in the morning. (Leuprolide acetate is a GnRH agonist which initially forces LH to be released and then of course testosterone to be released. In less than a week the pituitary becomes deaf to the GnRH and stops releasing any LH.) Anyway, it's my intuition and I have no explanation as to why, but experiencing higher levels of testosterone during the day seem to help me feel like a guy and it helps my mood.

Lately I have wished that I didn't have to take testosterone to feel like a guy. That's probably asking for the impossible. Maybe that is just a normal response to the idea of taking medication for the rest of one's life. In many cases with persistent mental illness, a person will get much better taking some medication. And then they will decide that they feel normal and don't need it any more. Predictably, things tend to go bad for them when they quit taking the medication cold turkey.

I am curious though. Can you elaborate on how exogenous testosterone isn't exactly the same as the normal production of testosterone for you? I have heard this before, but I don't fully understand the cautionary message.

The one slight negative I have seen since starting the androgel is that I don't' seem as driven to actually climax once I become sexual. It isn't that I can't or don't climax. I'm just not as driven to reach climax. It's a little weird, but it doesn't bother me either. It mirrors more generally how I more frequently feel sexual, but don't feel as driven to act out on it. That doesn't bother me either. I'm reaching climax more frequently and they are strong climaxes, so it just doesn't seem like a big deal.

It does sound worthwhile to become familiar with HCG and even talk to my endocrinologist about it. It is noteworthy that HCG hasn't been well studied in men.

The one thing I like about Androgel is that it is easy to control my testosterone level. As I mentioned previously, too much testosterone and I find it a little intellectually scary by how much it can change who I am. I feel lost on how to behave and interact with others when it is too high. It is hard to describe. At the level that I'm at now, it allows me to feel like a guy without being excessive. With the Androgel, if I take too much by taking it a day early, at most I only have to experience the excess for a day. Usually it doesn't last quite that long.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:38 am
by SplitDik (imported)
I totally agree, and have been recommending the same to others -- if you're into castration but not transsexual make sure you try to maximize your maleness before going to castration. I spent years with a serious obsession with castration which was rooted in a general discomfort with my male urges. Finally I realized it was a simple mismatch between what society expected (i.e. a non-aggressive, gentle, non-sexual, type of guy) with my true nature as a virile, dominant, thrill-seeking man. So I took a different approach: In addition to tweaking hormones (instead of getting testosterone which is a bit difficult to come by for many) I just suppress my estrogen (using Raloxifene or Tamoxifen). Furthermore, I engaged in many traditionally male activities -- I started seriously boxing (great channel for male aggression and athleticism), I bought some handguns (for sport only, don't keep them in the house), I started embracing my sexuality (stopped feeling bad about viewing porn, masturbating, having sexual fantasies, seeing strippers, or even seeing escorts).

And now I feel really, really good about myself. I still have the occasional regression, but ultimately believe I have have managed to minimize the castration desire while at the same time finding much more satisfaction in daily life.

So my advice to any non-transsexual guys seeking castration: make sure you try to maximize your maleness first, get in top shape, find outlets for your aggression and thrill-seeking, get a positive, dominant personality. Only after that (if it doesn't suit) then should you seek castration.

Also, related to your statement
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 11:56 pm I hope that my risk is less than male body builders that are raising their testosterone level far beyond what is considered within the normal range of an adult male. My risk may not be less though. I'm not even 100% sure if the amount I'm taking is beyond my testosterone homeostasis set point or not. Normally 5g of 1% of testosterone would be taking every day to get a castrate male into the half way point. I'm using the testosterone gel slightly more than twice a week. It is something that I should ask my endocrinologist about.

You are correct that there is little risk of issue with regular androgen HRT levels. Body builders take incredible amounts of testosterone -- I know guys easily taking 10x normal amounts, along with all sorts of other crazy stuff (insulin, prolactin suppression, diuretics, etc.). Testosterone has gotten a bad rap simply due to the sports "cheating" aspect -- it is a real shame because it is essentially a "wonder drug". Imagine if someone came up with a medication that would make you stronger, more energetic, better libido, achieve the perfect male body, etc. ... well guess what they have invented it!

There is some risks of cancer, but basically if you're at HRT levels then you just have the same risk as every other man on the planet.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:42 am
by guy26 (imported)
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 1:38 am I totally agree, and have been recommending the same to others -- if you're into castration but not transsexual make sure you try to maximize your maleness before going to castration. I spent years with a serious obsession with castration which was rooted in a general discomfort with my male urges. Finally I realized it was a simple mismatch between what society expected (i.e. a non-aggressive, gentle, non-sexual, type of guy) with my true nature as a virile, dominant, thrill-seeking man. So I took a different approach: In addition to tweaking hormones (instead of getting testosterone which is a bit difficult to come by for many) I just suppress my estrogen (using Raloxifene or Tamoxifen). Furthermore, I engaged in many traditionally male activities -- I started seriously boxing (great channel for male aggression and athleticism), I bought some handguns (for sport only, don't keep them in the house), I started embracing my sexuality (stopped feeling bad about viewing porn, masturbating, having sexual fantasies, seeing strippers, or even seeing escorts).

And now I feel really, really good about myself. I still have the occasional regression, but ultimately believe I have have managed to minimize the castration desire while at the same time finding much more satisfaction in daily life.

So my advice to any non-transsexual guys seeking castration: make sure you try to maximize your maleness first, get in top shape, find outlets for your aggression and thrill-seeking, get a positive, dominant personality. Only after that (if it doesn't suit) then should you seek castration.

Also, related to your statement

You are correct that there is little risk of issue with regular androgen HRT levels. Body builders take incredible amounts of testosterone -- I know guys easily taking 10x normal amounts, along with all sorts of other crazy stuff (insulin, prolactin suppression, diuretics, etc.). Testosterone has gotten a bad rap simply due to the sports "cheating" aspect -- it is a real shame because it is essentially a "wonder drug". Imagine if someone came up with a medication that would make you stronger, more energetic, better libido, achieve the perfect male body, etc. ... well guess what they have invented it!

There is some risks of cancer, but basically if you're at HRT levels then you just have the same risk as every other man on the planet.

If someone is committed to castration for a long period of time, the reason isn't because of a transexual desire to become female, and the problem isn't because of a BIID issue, it seems potentially reasonable that someone would try BOTH approaches before actual castration. The first approach would be to lower their testosterone level for a significant period of time and determine if they are comfortable with the changes in the long term and if it brings them relief. The second approach would be to raise testosterone levels within the normal range to see if it allows them to somehow overcome their drive toward castration and feel comfortable as a man. It seems that the benefit of potentially avoiding castration outweighs the risks of trying anti-androgens and exogenous testosterone as a trial. Far more research needs to be done to understand the best protocol of treatment for those with this particular problem. I don't see that happening at any time, so sadly we are left with anecdotal evidence on effective treatment and sharing information on the eunuch archive.

Whatever is done I strongly feel that it should be done under professional supervision. It appears that health professionals are more willing to lower a person's testosterone level versus raising it within the normal range. Thus it could be hard for many to safely and legally experience both conditions before making a decision on castration. With persistence and time, maybe others will find success too in working with the medical community!

If I understand you, you are explaining a kind of incongruity that existed between your true self and what society expected of you. Resolving that incongruity through behavior and increasing your testosterone level to a degree somehow released you from that castration drive. I find it interesting that the changes you have seen in yourself partially resulted as a change in behavior, i.e. indulging in and becoming comfortable with what could be regarded as alpha male behavior. In my case, I don't know how any change in behavior could have made me feel like I do now. For example, I have lifted weights off and on over the years, but often times it would only exacerbat
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 am e the gender incongruity that I felt.
Sometimes I would look more masculine and it would make me feel worse. I only felt driven to do weight lifting because I felt that it was a healthy thing to do as one component of a workout program.

The few times I tried increasing the dosage of androgel slightly beyond where I'm at, it left me feeling lost and unsure of how to respond to other people. That level felt natural, but far beyond anything that I previously experienced in life. Maybe that's what it feels like to be a guy with a higher level of testosterone? I really don't know. If I stayed at that level, it would change my behavior and interests in ways that I'm not really sure of. Maybe that's why I like my level where it is. I feel like a guy, but it doesn't push me in a direction where my behavior will change all that much. Despite the significant benefits I have seen because of androgel, I haven't regarded it as a "wonder drug." It feels more like a broad brush that has the potential to affect a whole lot of things!

You mention the risk of cancer. I was happy that my endocrinologist got a PSA base line so that he can keep track of it over time.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:54 am
by guy26 (imported)
Hi Janekane,

It is hard for me to follow up with an appropriate response. You certainly have a flair for words and discourse!
janekane (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm In my view, oversimplifying a complex situation may lead to undesirable outcomes. The regulation of testosterone levels in "intact" human males is a seriously complex "situation," and is affected by many aspects of human genetics and the expression of genetics upon experienced quality of life.

I agree in principle that the regulation of testosterone through exogenous use in intact males is more complex than in those that are lacking normal testicular function. There are a lot of variables that go into the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis that dictate how testosterone levels track over the hours and days.
janekane (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm My background includes decades of intense study of biology, both theoretical and applied, and I, as I may have mentioned far too many times already, am licensed as a professional engineer in part by having a university degree in bioengineering, and I also have a bioengineering Ph.D.

Based on decades of study (I began studying biology at college level, with college and graduate school level sources, when I was 7 and starting third grade. So what?

What intrigued me by time I started third grade was the observation that no two of anything are actually the same; or, that diversity is the essence of existence. As a college student, majoring in physics during the end of my teen years, I came upon the math needed to make useful sense of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and thereby to formn some sort of useful-to-me grasp of the domain of definition of that principle. In toying with the math, the only way the Pauli Exclusion Principle has ever made any useful sense to me is that everything that exists is actually perfectly unique in forever, even though the mental models people make of things and events may be identical, identical models of events does not convey "identicality" onto what is being modeled.

Sorry about the way I worded that. Yet it is as good as I could make it.

I am exceedingly wary of offering diagnoses because I do not have anywhere near enough verified data to have a diagnostic clue. And yes, as an aspect of my work in theoretical biology, I have developed a diagnostic system, albeit not a system of differential diagnosis as is typical of allopathic medicine; my approach is of integral diagnosis, using biological pattern recognition approaches.

On the way to my Ph.D., I interacted with many physicians. One of them asked me for my diagnostic opinion regarding a "difficult case." After I had stated my integral diagnosis, the physician remarked to me, "You are as good at diagnosis as I am, but you have a different system." To which I replied, "The difference is, my system works."

So I found then, so I find ever since.

Were I to guess, I would guess that physicians do not yet make much, if any, use of "my system" because it requires a deep understanding of Bayes Theorem, biological pattern recognition classifiers and decision boundaries, ways of generating verifiable Bayesian priors, and especially formidable proficiency in doing accurate, high-dimension-space, complex-variable, relational tensor calculus.

Can anyone actually do that math? Methinks, yes. Why? Observe a superbly skilled athlete. There is now way that such an athlete thinks through in words exactly how and when to activate each and every individual motor neuron; such math is intuitive, I am guessing, even in a dinoflagellate.

I don't have any practical experience with bayes theorem except in the practical application of bayes pattern recognition in setting up spam filtering. I suppose it could offer a new methodology of recognizing disease and suggesting diagnoses for people. I'm a little unsure of the specific application of this methodology in practice. At the minimum, one would have to handle false positives appropriately, which would almost certainly occur. I could also imagine that it will take a lot of effort to change the culture of the medical profession to accept this kind of methodology in every day practice.
janekane (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm So, if using androgen gel results in an improvement in your quality of life, my view is that you may wisely use it according to how your quality of life is optimized; wile allowing that the optimal "dose" for you may not be optimal for anyone else you will ever encounter.

I have not thought of the use of androgel as a means to improve my quality of life. That is a reasonable way of looking at it, especially if weighing the use of it against potential risks. I feel that my quality of life has significantly improved.
janekane (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm My work in theoretical biology has led me to reject the commonplace understanding of medical/biological issues as being necessarily "disorders." Rather, I strongly favor an adaptive model, one in which genetic factors result in a repertoire of adaptive mechanisms which come into use in response to life events, and the adaptive mechanisms a particular person has may or may not allow for a satisfactory adaptation to life events. When internal adaptive mechanisms are unsatisfactory, I favor augmenting them with what may be deemed medicine and/or nutrition and/or behavioral modification.

If a
mong other things you are rejecting diagnostic labels for people, especially when they involve mental health issues, I'm all for that. People are complex organisms and a label has a way of over simplifying their issue(s). It is on the behest of the medical professional not to allow a label to be a crutch in understanding the individual and their problem. Without that it would be difficult to offer care that is appropriate for all individuals.
janekane (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 10:24 pm If a testosterone level higher than your body's "testosterone homeostasis set point" is necessary for optimizing your quality of life, then gel augmentation and/or replacement seems very wise to me.

If varying levels are bothersome, I wonder whether dividing the gel dose into smaller, daily doses would give you a more consistent experience than a three day interval. That may be worth asking your prescribing physician...

Early on I had considered smaller daily doses, but I didn't want to try that without consulting my endocrinologist. So far I'm really happy with just every thee days. I haven't noticed anything bothersome with that interval, especially once things seemed to smooth out by itself. It seems to just work.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:16 am
by Wolf-Pup (imported)
It sounds as if your situation is fixed, don't break it :)

Have you had your T levels tested since you've been on the Androgel?

The concern on hypogonadism2 group on Yahoo, from the folks that are using HCG, is that they worry that the leydic cells in the testicles may do more than just create testosterone. They worry that they are losing some intangibles by letting the testes atrophy. Personally I don't worry too much about it. My Endo who seems to be up on these things said she'd only use HCG if I was worried about maintaining fertility. which I'm not.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:41 am
by guy26 (imported)
Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 9:16 am It sounds as if your situation is fixed, don't break it :)

Have you had your T levels tested since you've been on the Androgel?

The concern on hypogonadism2 group on Yahoo, from the folks that are using HCG, is that they worry that the leydic cells in the testicles may do more than just create testosterone. They worry that they are losing some intangibles by letting the testes atrophy. Personally I don't worry too much about it. My Endo who seems to be up on these things said she'd only use HCG if I was worried about maintaining fertility. which I'm not.

Yeah, I had it measured at the 6 week mark when I was
guy26 (imported) wrote: Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 pm taking testosterone twice a week.
I'm using it every three days, which is just a little more often--3x times every 10 days versus 3x times every 9 days. I haven't gotten my results back, but I also noticed that my endocrinologist only wanted my free testosterone checked. I'm a little surprised. It might have been a mistake. The phlebotomist at my local doctor's practice drew the blood and sent it into the lab. She was a little surprised and had to call my insurance's lab to get a code only to run the free testosterone test. I guess total and free testosterone are checked together.

As far as things being fixed and not breaking it... I totally agree with that! That's why I'm leaning on just staying on a schedule of every three days. Unless there is a physiological reason, why mess with something that works? But I'll abide by whatever my endocrinologist thinks is right. My therapist thinks that it is psychologically reasonable to leave it where it is, so hopefully it is okay to leave physiologically on the same schedule. I'll let you know how my visit goes in a couple of weeks.

It's interesting that your endocrinologist is onl
Wolf-Pup (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 9:16 am y concerned about using HCG in the cas
e that you were worried about maintaining fertility. I don't really care about that. I'd be surprised if I was fertile to start with! I primarily just want to feel normal, which I seem to have achieved. :)

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm
by SplitDik (imported)
guy26 (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 4:42 am The few times I tried increasing the dosage of androgel slightly beyond where I'm at, it left me feeling lost and unsure of how to respond to other people. That level felt natural, but far beyond anything that I previously experienced in life. Maybe that's what it feels like to be a guy with a higher level of testosterone? I really don't know.

Here's the thing. Being a horny, energetic, thrill-seeking guy is somewhat uncomfortable. But it is uncomfortable in a different, more tolerable way than when I was obsessed with castration.

I think the best way to explain it is with an analogy -- when someone gets on stage they always get an adrenaline rush but some people experience it as stage fright (i.e. uncomfortable) and others find it exhilarating.

It is the same with taking extra testosterone -- you are still horny, in fact even hornier, but instead of it being an unpleasant feeling it becomes pleasant. At some level it is the same feeling, but your acceptance of it is different.

I think that behavioral changes can also create some of the same effects -- imagine someone who had stage fright actively working to conquer it and then eventually one day realizing the positive thrill.

I think that the testosterone itself will create some changes, but you have to be careful not to let it just create more sexual frustrations and other bottled up energy -- if you go for more testosterone in your system, I highly recommend that you consciously seek behaviors that provide a natural outlet. Otherwise you will almost certainly start getting anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a generally anxious feeling. When you have high testosterone you NEED adrenaline and sexual outlets, otherwise you're likely to crack.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 pm
by guy26 (imported)
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm I think that the testosterone itself will create some changes, but you have to be careful not to let it just create more sexual frustrations and other bottled up energy -- if you go for more testosterone in your system, I highly recommend that you consciously seek behaviors that provide a natural outlet. Otherwise you will almost certainly start getting anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a generally anxious feeling. When you have high testosterone you NEED adrenaline and sexual outlets, otherwise you're likely to crack.

So far I haven't noticed any
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm anger management issues, sexual frustration,
or anxiety because of increasing my testosterone level.

The times I have had conflict at work in recent weeks, I felt more laid back about it. I didn't take things as personally and I didn't seem to care as much. I haven't been all that concerned about testosterone increasing my likelihood to get angry or the intensity of that anger. Anger doesn't seem to be a part of my personality and it's rare that I get angry. I have always been that way. I dislike conflict, but I don't necessarily run away from conflict either. I like to debate, but I don't like to get emotional about it.

I have not been sexually frustrated so far. I have noticed that I feel more inclined to top. I'm not for sure why. Maybe it has something to do with the testosterone? I really don't know. My other half whom I've been with for 11 years has a much lower sex drive than mine. I haven't let that be a source of frustration for me in the past or more recently. I have no qualms about watching porn and attending to myself if he isn't in the mood.

As far as anxiety, I have noticed less anxiety in general. And when anxiety has occurred it doesn't seem to bother me as much. In some ways I have felt that my response to emotions in general and including anxiety has been tempered because of the testosterone.

As far as random desires or changes in behavior, I have recently wanted to ride a dirt bike on some of the local trails. Our area has some nice trails designed for that. I don't know anyone that has a dirt bike, so I don't see that happening anytime soon. LoL. And I don't know if this desire is because of the testosterone or just something that has popped up. As a kid, we use to ride three wheelers all the time on the farm. So it isn't totally out of character.

I have only been taking exogenous testosterone for 3 months, so I'll keep a watchful eye on things. If I get a desire to watch football, I'll definitely know that something has changed. LoL. I have never understood the desire to watch big team sports. I can understand wanting to play in them, but not watch them.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:40 am
by knightbird111 (imported)
I had all of these with my natural testosterone;
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 pm anger management issues, sexual frustration, and a
nxiety

but now I take siterone and it definitely helps.

Re: Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:42 pm
by SplitDik (imported)
So far I haven't noticed any
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 pm ]
anger management issues, sexual frustration,
or anxiety because of increasing my testosterone level.

The times I have had conflict at work in recent weeks, I felt more laid back about it. I didn't take things as personally and I didn't seem to care as much. I haven't been all that concerned about testosterone increasing my likelihood to get angry or the intensity of that anger. Anger doesn't seem to be a part of my personality and it's rare that I get angry. I have always been that way. I dislike conflict, but I don't necessarily run away from conflict either. I like to debate, but I don't like to get emotional about it.

I have not been sexually frustrated so far. I have noticed that I feel more inclined to top. I'm not for sure why. Maybe it has something to do with the testosterone? I really don't know. My other half whom I've been with for 11 years has a much lower sex drive than mine. I haven't let that be a source of frustration for me in the past or more recently. I have no qualms about watching porn and attending to myself if he isn't in the mood.

As far as anxiety, I have noticed less anxiety in general. And when anxiety has occurred it doesn't seem to bother me as much. In some ways I have felt that my response to emotions in general and including anxiety has been tempered because of the testosterone.

As far as random desires or changes in behavior, I have recently wanted to ride a dirt bike on some of the local trails. Our area has some nice trails designed for that. I don't know anyone that has a dirt bike, so I don't see that happening anytime soon. LoL. And I don't know if this desire is because of the testosterone or just something that has popped up. As a kid, we use to ride three wheelers all the time on the farm. So it isn't totally out of character.

I have only been taking exogenous testosterone for 3 months, so I'll keep a watchful eye on things. If I get a desire to watch football, I'll definitely know that something has changed. LoL. I have never understood the desire to watch big team sports. I can
[/quote]
understand wanting to play in them, but not watch them.

A lot of people get confused about this, but let me explain. When you have testosterone, the aggression, libido, and energy are very different. I personally like it a lot better, and like you said it can feel more "laid back". But don't be complacent -- here's how to look at it.

When a low testosterone person or a woman talks about being angry, they really mean a feeling of "irritation" or being "peeved". You won't feel this with high testosterone; however what you will feel is a very primal urge to physically dominate. It will feel good to punch someone or to shout and rage at a loved one just for the "fun of it". A young man wants to fight. Not because they are irritable or actually mad for any reason, but they just like the idea of purely physical altercation. Where you will feel this "anger management issue" is when you are outright confronted or challenged (for example your anger at your children misbehaving, or road rage type stuff).

When a low testosterone has sexual frustration it is sort of an agitation feeling, some sort of discomfort in the loins and stomach (at least that's where I feel it). When you have high testosterone, instead the sexual buildup feels GOOD. You lust after women, just walking around can give you an erection, etc. But that will start to get to be too much pressure.

When a low testosterone person has anxiety, it is a nervousness, almost a fear. Whereas a high testosterone person will feel it as positive energy, yet it will also become a bit manic, lead to a certain type of insomnia, etc.

So, yes you will feel good. It will feel better than the low testosterone versions of the feelings. But trust me, if you get into high testosterone range you will feel like a dominant guy, and that means physically dominant (and therefore anger when challenged), horny (meaning you feel constantly sexual until it drives you crazy), and energetic (until you realize that you're not truly relaxing).