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What are the reasons why some eunuchs end up with bad depression and even commit suicide?

knightbird111 (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:17 am What are the reasons why some eunuchs end up with bad depression and even commit suicide?

Lack of testosterone. Some have predisposition and triggered by lack of hormone. Others already have depression, and lack of T sends them even further.

when it comes to anxiety, is anxiety an issue of low T or high T.

I've researched that Estradiol E2 at high levels causes anxiety. Does Low T make E2 levels rise?

kristoff wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:33 am Lack of testosterone. Some have predisposition and triggered by lack of hormone. Others already have depression, and lack of T sends them even further.

The answer to the question almost precedes itself. Everyone is unique. If an analysis of T level of men who have committed suicide were ever done one can only guesstimate that the T range would be generally above low. But no way to know. But sounds like a way to get a government grant; a study on men with low T and the statistical analysis of the number of men who acquired depression (not previously experienced prior to castration), number who committed suicide who had, or did not have, diagnosed depression.

In the end,everyone becomes a digital number in a study. And that is sad. in the real world I would rather see major efforts to help anyone who has developed depression, or is thinking of suicide, regardless of the roots of origin for those feelings. Money spent that way to try and help people, than make a pie chart, would be much better spent..........in my opinion.

nullorchis (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:31 pm The answer to the question almost precedes itself. Everyone is unique. If an analysis of T level of men who have committed suicide were ever done one can only guesstimate that the T range would be generally above low. But no way to know. But sounds like a way to get a government grant; a study on men with low T and the statistical analysis of the number of men who acquired depression (not previously experienced prior to castration), number who committed suicide who had, or did not have, diagnosed depression.

In the end,everyone becomes a digital number in a study. And that is sad. in the real world I would rather see major efforts to help anyone who has developed depression, or is thinking of suicide, regardless of the roots of origin for those feelings. Money spent that way to try and help people, than make a pie chart, would be much better spent..........in my opinion.

I suspect that those castrated for medical reasons are likely depressed for other reasons beside castration, and there are far too few voluntary eunuchs to put together a statistically valid survey, so we're probably stuck with just anecdotal evidence.

Transward

I continue to bad mouth Lupron. I was on it for a year and a half as part of my prostae cancer treatment. It took some time for the full effects to settle in but once they did I was not a happy camper. I don't know if it was depression or what but I lost my libido and interest in life in general, including my business and was pissed off at the world until I finally refused to take any more injections. It took some time for the effects of that poison to wear off but I was a much happier man once it did. Anybody gets anywhere near me with that stuff again, they'll find out how much fight is left in a 68 yr. old curmudgeon.

Nvr, I have never been on Lupron, however I have dealt with Low T for years. Your symptoms on Lupron sound alot like how I was most of the time. I am currently on HRT.

Now, if I could just be relieved of these nuts!

Dave

nvrgag44 (imported) wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:05 pm I continue to bad mouth Lupron. I was on it for a year and a half as part of my prostae cancer treatment. It took some time for the full effects to settle in but once they did I was not a happy camper. I don't know if it was depression or what but I lost my libido and interest in life in general, including my business and was pissed off at the world until I finally refused to take any more injections. It took some time for the effects of that poison to wear off but I was a much happier man once it did. Anybody gets anywhere near me with that stuff again, they'll find out how much fight is left in a 68 yr. old curmudgeon.

nvrgag44 (imported) wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:05 pm I continue to bad mouth Lupron. I was on it for a year and a half as part of my prostae cancer treatment. It took some time for the full effects to settle in but once they did I was not a happy camper. I don't know if it was depression or what but I lost my libido and interest in life in general, including my business and was pissed off at the world until I finally refused to take any more injections. It took some time for the effects of that poison to wear off but I was a much happier man once it did. Anybody gets anywhere near me with that stuff again, they'll find out how much fight is left in a 68 yr. old curmudgeon.

Not to go too far afield here, but most of these things you are complaining about sound like the standard castration side effects, at least to me.

With me, my castration has had no negative effects on me when it comes to depression, the only thing that seems to get me depressed is money issues or problems at work. Otherwise I feel great and have no problems at all with my low T.

Ken

BossTamsin (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:20 am Not to go too far afield here, but most of these things you are complaining about sound like the standard castration side effects, at least to me.

True enough. The difference is I didn't have the option of TRT to ease the symptoms at the time. My T level now is well below 200 (the radiation must have cooked more than the prostate cancer) but apparently that's high enough. I'm quite comfortable with it. I have a much lower but quite satisfactory libido. I'm much easier to get along with, more comfortable with myself and I love the reduction in body hair.

knightbird111 (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:17 am What are the reasons why some eunuchs end up with bad depression and even commit suicide?

Maybe it's from constant teasing and ridicule from school on as in, "Goddamnit! What the holy fuck is wrong with you!¿?! You're no-o-o good for chiette!!! You're just not good at anything. -Anything at all. Ain't you got no balls or WHAT¿!!?

Eunuch's life seems scattered with some inconveniences.

And the peace (or calm) of the eunuch where it is ?

Can it help to endure these inconveniences?

Thank you for speaking to us about it.

regardless if statistics exist, if you were to make an educated guess, would you say suicide is more prone in High T men or Low T men?

knightbird111 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:23 pm regardless if statistics exist, if you were to make an educated guess, would you say suicide is more prone in High T men or Low T men?

I am not aware of any research, or even educated guesses, that would answer this question. In my opinion Testosterone levels would be only a small factor if it is a factor at all in suicides. The things leading to suicide seem to be many and the interaction of them is complicated. --FLO--

I think anybody that has ever taken all the time necessary to thoroughly and completely think all about their life, and has ever considered whether they were serving any useful purpose at all, and whether their life was worth living afterall would only come to one conclusion: I'm not doing anybody any good and my life is NOT worth living! But then after arriving to this conclusion you look around at others and you see all kinds of examples of people that probably shouldn't be living either. They may have just never thought it out. Or they may have just decided to go on living to see what happens next. So if they're alive then why can't I also be alive too. I don't think testosterone or estrogen has anything to do with whether anyone actually commits suicide or not but whether they've taken the time to think it out or not. Testosterone may be implicated in mindless behaviors but so is the teenage brain too.

It has been my observation that stable low T people tend to have more depression, of the passive, lethargic no energy type than men with normal T. But people with changing T levels such as after castration, or changing hormone dosage often have the kind of wild mood swings that lead to the kind of violently active depression that causes suicide.

Transward

transward (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:13 pm It has been my observation that stable low T people tend to have more depression, of the passive, lethargic no energy type than men with normal T. But people with changing T levels such as after castration, or changing hormone dosage often have the kind of wild mood swings that lead to the kind of violently active depression that causes suicide.

Transward

I can attest to this. It is the swings in my hormone levels that cause me to go off the rails. One of those effects can be a particularly nasty temper, that seems to flare up for no reason. What is really happening is a sudden drop-off in testosterone. The temper always hits just before the depression. Once in the depressed state, I can pull myself out, but remain lethargic and unmotivated. Once I level off, I am much more myself, and human again.

It is amazing how much our hormones affect our thinking and our reactions. We like to think our brains are independent of our hormones, but they are entwined in a very real and measurable way.

Thousands of Chinese men became eunuchs for hundreds of years until the Qing Dynasty ended in 1912. I often wonder how all those eunuchs coped with depression. Maybe they were able to offer each other support and encouragement. They certainly didn't have access to HRT or anti-depressants.

eunuch2001 (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:58 am Thousands of Chinese men became eunuchs for hundreds of years until the Qing Dynasty ended in 1912. I often wonder how all those eunuchs coped with depression. Maybe they were able to offer each other support and encouragement. They certainly didn't have access to HRT or anti-depressants.

Ginseng ...........

Ginseng ...........

I'd never thought of ginseng, nor do I recall seeing it mentioned in any research into Chinese eunuchs. Do you have a source of information or was ginseng an educated guess? On the subject of herbs and drugs I've often wondered if the Chinese cutters used opium for pain relief. Bearing in mind there were 100,000 eunuchs at the end of the Ming Dynasty, and many of these volunteered for castration, the surgeons must have had plenty of experience and the surgery can't have been too terrifyingly painful. I don't recall how many eunuchs were around when the Qing Dynasty ended.

Eunuken (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:48 am With me, my castration has had no negative effects on me when it comes to depression, the only thing that seems to get me depressed is money issues or problems at work. Otherwise I feel great and have no problems at all with my low T.

Ken

Ditto. I have a set routine for exercise, hobbies and social life, so I remain upbeat. The only thing to get depressed about is the diabolical weather in the UK!

eunuch2001 (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:58 am Thousands of Chinese men became eunuchs for hundreds of years until the Qing Dynasty ended in 1912. I often wonder how all those eunuchs coped with depression. Maybe they were able to offer each other support and encouragement. They certainly didn't have access to HRT or anti-depressants.

A couple of things are in play here. First you have to distinguish between being miserable and being depressed. If you lose a battle where most of your friends are slaughtered, your wives and children are raped and enslaved, and your manhood is brutally chopped off and you are sold into backbreaking labor, you will probably be miserable, but you would know exactly the source of that misery. You would not be depressed. Depression on the other hand, is an unpleasant byproduct of freedom. If the universe doesn't sufficiently oppress me then I do it to myself. A large percentage of Chinese eunuchs were the spoils of war, and misery would overwhelm depression.

And of the voluntary eunuchs, you have to look at the system. For large chunks of Chinese history the vast Chinese Civil Service was mostly staffed by eunuchs who could rise through the ranks to positions of great power. Often the Emperor frolliced with his concubines within the Forbidden City leaving the country to be ruled by the eunuchs. (to the point that the evil eunuch was a stock villain in Chinese folklore.). In a Confucian society where family was everything, often after a couple of sons to inherit and run family enterprises, one of the younger sons would be castrated and schooled for government service with the expectation of return on investment in the form of government goodies channeled family-ward. ( a similar system occured in Italy with the great families and the papacy. Which is how so many of the younger sons of the Borgias and Medicis ended up pope) So the eunuch, while mocked (often with the adjective "smelly," alluding to the difficulty nullified eunuchs can have controlling the bladder) had a respected place in a society that revered familial devotion..

Still I suspect they were depressed.

Transward

eunuch2001 (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:58 am Thousands of Chinese men became eunuchs for hundreds of years until the Qing Dynasty ended in 1912. I often wonder how all those eunuchs coped with depression. Maybe they were able to offer each other support and encouragement. They certainly didn't have access to HRT or anti-depressants.

I beg to differ about not having HRT. It has in fact been around for millenias of years, but probably was not anywhere near as consistant and reliable as what we have today (so you'd have to know the practitioner). However ways to perform certain medicinal functions were well known such as bringing on breast growth and inducing abortions by the ancients and possibly still being practiced today. Both of these are forms of hormonal management. And I have a good hunch that it is still practiced in certain places to this very day due to certain things that I have read mainly about India.

transward wrote, "

transward (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:08 pm A couple of things are in play here. First you have to distinguish between being miserable and being depressed. If you lose a battle where most of your friends are slaughtered, your wives and children are raped and enslaved, and your manhood is brutally chopped off and you are sold into backbreaking labor, you will probably be miserable, but you would know exactly the source of that misery. You would not be depressed. Depression on the other hand, is an unpleasant byproduct of freedom. If the universe doesn't sufficiently oppress me then I do it to myself. A large percentage of Chinese eunuchs were the spoils of war, and misery would overwhelm depression.

"

If depression is an unpleasant byproduct of freedom I'll learn to deal with it and fight to the death before I'll willingly give up my precious freedom.