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I question whether the post castration depression issue is as the medical papers say. I wish there could be a new study that accounts for gender transition or males that are seeking castration. In the past society has portrayed a very negative message about this situation and I believe this has colored the research and how the respondents give answers. With all the social change in the last few decades does it not allow for a rethink of this idea,? To me one of the reasons castrations is not more available is Medical professionals honestly believe they will be lowering the quality of life for the patient. Depression is one of the most negative factors cited in that group. But as I read here on these pages as skewed a sample as it is I do not see the type of depression as discussed in medical journals. One way to cause this procedure to be more accepted is to correct the research that is negatively inflammatory.

Any idea?

One reason you might not see as much discussion about depression on these pages is that many on this forum are on some form of HRT.

And others seem to stop posting after they've achieved their goal. I do think research into post-castration depression deserves a second look, though, with accounting for both HRT and whether the guy wanted castration. The results may or may not correlate with previous findings. I'm not sure how the researchers would get data, though, let alone a representative sample of the latter group.

Sandi

There may possibly be something about castration depression in a certain new report out that I want to read sometime. It's a little off the subject but may have something.

Injustice at Every Turn: A Report of the National Transgender Discrimination Survey

I am no research expert. So Sandi I would think that a look at those that choose to be cut could be contacted and useful information gained. I do not believe every study is a double blind study. I realize that self selection is an issue in studies, but is not this idea about self selection? Frankly as I think of it, would it not be interesting to see about the impressions, feelings, and attitudes about those cut from spouses also (if they have one)?

The big question I have is society as a whole presents castration as a unwanted, unhealthy, disaster to be avoided at all costs. We choose to be here but we see data points that tell a very different story. I really believe that this decision would never be positive but for a small minority that for various reasons testosterone has never been a friend in their life. I admire the work done here by members to inform the medical community, and sometimes the general public that strays into our mists. I want to be able sometime in the future to say, "hey go read this, where not for everybody, some males for various reasons have made this choice for these reasons and had successful lives."

Right now voluntary castration does not really have that paper. If it does I am sure other here will quickly tell me where. And in the meantime all I can do is keep asking reasons questions, and provide thoughtful advice from my own experience.

I personally don't believe that every castrated male will experience depression. I think the candidates more likely to experience depression are those men who were castrated involuntarily. I never experienced depression during those time I were off T. I believe that those guys who desperately wanted castration should not experience depression. But as expressed above, using T should prevent depression.

I have been reluctant to jump in on this topic since the questions about depression that we asked on our large survey were not very good ones. They do, however, give a hint as to any connection between castration and depression. Take them ONLY as indicative, though, not as statistically significant.

We had enough respondents who had been castrated and who had answered our (poor quality) questions on depression to allow me to post the following:

I looked only at the 122 individuals who stated that their castration had been voluntary and who completed the entire 500+ questions of the survey. (The questions on depression were toward the end.) Numbers for those who had been penectomized only or who had been nullified were too small for analysis.

Of the 122 individuals, 27 (22%) reported that they had been clinically diagnosed with depression BEFORE their castration. Of these 27, 19 (70%) reported that they no longer suffered depression after castration. The remaining 30% continued to suffer from depression.

Of the 95 individuals who did NOT suffer from depression before castration, 29 (31%) reported being diagnosed with depression after castration.

A visual inspection of the data seems to indicate that hormone replacement therapy, or lack thereof, does not seem to make any significant difference. Those on full replacement testosterone, transitional levels of estrogen, or no HRT whatsoever, seem to be about the same with respect to depression.

If we decide to run another large-scale survey on the eunuch population, better questions about depression will need to be a part of it. All we can say for certain now is that some individuals who suffered from clinical depression had it lifted once they attained their goal of castration; others did not. About a third of those who did not suffer from depression before castration were diagnosed with it after their desired surgery.

Depression is a very serious disorder and anyone seeking castration needs to be concerned about the possibility.

My personal experience with short chemical castration trial was that I had no depression. But!!! I became much more fragile emotionally! Things that bothered me little before, suddenly became issues for me. That kind of emotional state could easily lead to depression. Mood swings in eunuchs is well known issue.

Jesus, looking at the data you provided above (and keeping in mind the sample size is small, but is all that is available), you'd think that the medical community would start to figure out the reason the men who come to them and state that they wish to be castrated are depressed is because the medical community isn't taking them seriously. Now, that is starting to change, but a 7 in 10 reduction in depression in those individuals who reported that they were no longer depressed post castration, seems to me to be an indicator their depression is caused by hopelessness in believing they cannot achieve their goal, and resulting comfort in their own bodies.

While I've had a rough couple of months since my penectomy, a lot of that was due to things outside of the surgery I had. I got a lot of crap thrown at me in a short amount of time (all my managers at work leaving except one, My family issues getting complicated at the same time as the surgery, then the surgery thrown into it all). Those issues not related to my surgery are finally starting to lift. I'm moving to Virginia for a new job (end of revolving door co-workers), and my family is starting to be less dramatic the past month than they had been.

All know is that the underlying malaise in life for me appears to be lifting, because for the first time ever, I'm comfortable in my body. I feel more capable of taking on these other annoyances of life, and dealing with them appropriately, than I did before because I'm not pre-occupied with figuring out how to fix the mistake that was between my legs. It's gone, and I'm happy.

One of the causes for depression after castration is the sharp increase of lutenizing hormone (LH) which causes your cortisone levels to elevate to high levels. There is also a dramatic change in the mineralocorticosteroid levels that can be helped with DHEA and pregnenolone. Castration creates a massive disruption to the complex system of feedback loops that are very interconnected.

So, is it within the error bars to say, "Of those groups who had

JesusA wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:30 am depression before castration

and those who didn't, one third of both groups

JesusA wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:30 am suffered depression after castration

"?

That may suggest a common, underlying mechanism, though without stronger numbers, all I can say is "Fascinating... " and "Requires further study".

erikboy (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:02 am My personal experience with short chemical castration trial was that I had no depression. But!!! I became much more fragile emotionally! Things that bothered me little before, suddenly became issues for me. That kind of emotional state could easily lead to depression. Mood swings in eunuchs is well known issue.

This is pretty much the way nullification effected me. I don't have depression but I am more fragile and find at times I would cry and don't know why. When I think or say something from my heart, my eyes will easily fog up...quite embarrassing if this happens when my boss talks to me!

YodaNell (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:41 am I don't have depression but I am more fragile and find at times I would cry and don't know why. When I think or say something from my heart, my eyes will easily fog up...

According to the suicide prevention classes we had to take in the military that is the first and most significant sign of depression.

Wow 18 years since castration but I do not remember depression. I do remember exaggerated emotions. Sad news, movies, and events I felt more strongly. On the other hand happy times were happier. My range and depth of emotions were wider and deeper. Quite a rollercoaster ride at first. The rollercoaster has smoothed out over the years.

tugon (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:37 am Wow 18 years since castration but I do not remember depression. I do remember exaggerated emotions. Sad news, movies, and events I felt more strongly. On the other hand happy times were happier. My range and depth of emotions were wider and deeper. Quite a rollercoaster ride at first. The rollercoaster has smoothed out over the years.

I hear you LeatherPup but to me it's more like the way tugon feels. I think after all these years depression or suicide would have taken it's toll already. I think it depends on many things like one's mental strength, growing up situation (some people handle situations better because they grew up under difficult situations), castration being a mistake because of the inability to distinguish between fantasy and true desire, always wanting your own way, castration tending to tenderise one's mental state...and much more. Depression is a difficult subject. One can have underlying (unnoticed depression) long before castration and then castration will be the catalyst to manifest castration. I really think that I do not have the courage to kill myself. My faith in God to change my situation is too strong.

I developed a mild depression this year but it's not due to castration. I just had a TERRIBLE year and EVERYTHING seems to go wrong, so I started to take it out on the traffic when I drive. My shrink gave me a mild antidepressant tablet (xanor 0.5 mg) and I'm feeling much better. Xanor is actually for panic attacks but it does make me calmer. My mood situation can also be because I have not had T for a few months now. Cannot afford it. But, my shrink told me there are MANY reasons for depression, but at the moment so far, I feel the same as tugon and the other guy a few posts back.

I'm chemically castrated since 4 years, and my T level is a menopaused woman's one. I've experienced hotflashes, dramatic shrinkage of penis, but no depression.

JessicaH (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:49 am One of the causes for depression after castration is the sharp increase of lutenizing hormone (LH) which causes your cortisone levels to elevate to high levels. There is also a dramatic change in the mineralocorticosteroid levels that can be helped with DHEA and pregnenolone. Castration creates a massive disruption to the complex system of feedback loops that are very interconnected.

I wonder how all these hormonal loopbacks are organized in prepubertal children? Also after a while these systems stabilize somewhere. Somehow. LH levels drop and hot flashes fade. Is there any scientific data?

I don't know ericboy. There is a good group on Facebook called Gender Research for All Genders. They have some very knowledgeable people there and share a lot of studies. It's the kind of group that you better have a study to back up any assertion that you make.

I've been off T for a while now, and I just a terrible hot flush 10 minutes ago. I hate hot flushes!

Seem to remember that as the flashes went away, it all felt much better. Hope it happens for you too.