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So... the UK is overrun with fertility fascism, to the extent that I have had all manner of abuse from doctors, even including having religious scripture shouted at me! So naturally I wonder if a zero fertility test result would strengthen my case (for orchidectomy for intermittent torsions, testicular pathology that looks autoimmune, maybe connected to my Crohn's Disease, and intense orchalgia) by "shooting their fox".

Does anyone know how such a thing could be engineered?

Old semen? Heat-treated? Anything else? ... Would a lab be able to tell?

magusuk89 (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:12 am So... the UK is overrun with fertility fascism, to the extent that I have had all manner of abuse from doctors, even including having religious scripture shouted at me! So naturally I wonder if a zero fertility test result would strengthen my case (for orchidectomy for intermittent torsions, testicular pathology that looks autoimmune, maybe connected to my Crohn's Disease, and intense orchalgia) by "shooting their fox".

Does anyone know how such a thing could be engineered?

Old semen? Heat-treated? Anything else? ... Would a lab be able to tell?

Hey magusuk89,

Using the wrong jack off lube in the lab collection room, one that kills sperm, would ruin your fertility test. I had to ask for the lab s jack off lube that does not kill sperm. It is water based and dries out fast from stroking friction. It is rough on circumcised dicks for jacking off. Bring your own lube that kills sperm to stroke with. But a lab could probably figure that out. Weeks of heating your balls will damage sperm and cause many sperm to die or malfunction.

I get intermittant torsions and have some ball damage from it. It is because you are young that drs don t want to castrate you. But if your blood to testis internal barrier is shot to hell by torsion damage, you will likely become sterilized and slowly castrated by your own immune system attacking your balls, sperm, and sperm making cells inside your gonads over time. Your immune system will attack and kill your sperm and sperm making ball pulp for lacking all of your chromozones. Your immune system mistakes your own sperm and sperm making cells as invading foreign cells or germs. That alone will affect your sperm over enough time. Drs don t even understand the blood and sperm barrier enough to know how it works or how to fix it.

Thanks!

Yes... I certainly have that problem. I keep getting small hydroceles that appear and disappear on scans, and also "foci" (granulomas essentially) that come and go within the balls themselves. In terms of the extent of physical damage from these twists, the cords are like calamari and bounce back (more's the pity) but I have had minor blood staining in ejaculate immediately after a twist before. Amusingly one urologist said "I never heard of that before", but I count that has his limitation, and it isn't up to the patient to explain the facts as they present themselves! So... I think there's autoimmune activity.

The idea of spermicidal lube is interesting, but yes... I don't know if it would piss off a lab technician. One is tempted to bribe them. The problem isn't cash, it's finding medical people who are willing to help. I tried going private in Harley Street, and even got as far as being consented and given a surgery date, but the hosting hospital objected and the clinic had to refund me! -- It is a truly dreadful country.

I think that even if you tested as completely sterilized, the drs would still not want to castrate you. You are old enough to voluntarily get yourself a vasectomy at any dr or clinic. But I think drs would still resist removing your balls. If the breaching of your immune system from sperm barrier is causing whole body wide auto immune symptoms, then drs might see a medical necessity and benefit to castrating you. You can research auto immune symptoms online to see if any are currently occurring in your body now ?

The blood in your semen after torsions makes perfect sense. Your twisted ball cords cut off your blood circulation in your balls which causes blood clotting, oxygen deprivation, tissue damage, and cumulative damages over time. Each time tissue is damaged enough, it swells, ruptures, and bleeds. Just like elastrator banded gonads obviously swell, turn purple, then black, and then rupture and degrade internally when the cells die.

Your hydrodeles are common signs of gonad injuries. Most men have a few from sports hits to their gonads that show on tests. The granulomas are likely ruptured inner testicle tissues that bleed into your semen after tight twisting torsions ruptured cells in your spermatic cords, inner gonad tubules, or epididymis. Then the blood shows in your semen if ejaculated soon after the torsions. Men can ejaculate to try to relax the twisted spermatic cords into untwisting as a self help for some torsions. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes the cords stay twisted. .

Well, we know I have high-levels of autoimmune activity because of my Crohn's, and TNFa, the immune system part responsible for that is the thing that causes sympathetic orchidopathy (all this is ludicrously easy to google and is even on Wikipedia)...

I have ulceration, orofacial and perianal granulomatosis and ulceration of the TI and the IC valve provoking diarrhoea... so this month I am being put on immune suppressants. I suspect they think this will make all the problems go away... but there's still the pain, of course, and the twists.

You sound like castration is the right answer for you. Your daily sperm production is continuing to trigger and antagonize your body s whole immune system. As long as you pump out fresh sperm by the second and minute, your body will continue trying to kill all of those sperm and the cells in your gonads making the sperm. No wonder you have so many auto immune problems. And testicle pain. Immune suppression drugs likely will create new problems of their own. Drs should weigh the risks of auto immune problems and immune suppression drugs vs castration in your situation.

I discussed it with them, and they are adamant that my problem is Crohn's... and that lives with the gut doctors (gastroenterology) who are so peeved that the condition is commonly understood to affect other stuff (like arthritis, which I get during flare ups, and blindness) that clearly they want to deny gonad involvement probably for crowd control reasons... despite papers like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4411760/

It is very possible that immune elimination will stop the testicular pathology, but obviously will do nothing about the nerves being shredded and the ongoing torsions from bell clapper deformity.

Personally I wonder sometimes whether I could get into remission with the Crohn's solely via orchidectomy and diet, seeing as limiting my diet reduces my Crohn's symptoms right down, before a torsion sends it all through the roof again.

I'm thinking it would have to be a very good friend to do this for you. However, if you have a buddy who has had a vasectomy, you could either get him to provide a sample and bring it in your pocket or just sneak his condom out of his trash can in the bathroom.

TopManFL (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:30 am I'm thinking it would have to be a very good friend to do this for you. However, if you have a buddy who has had a vasectomy, you could either get him to provide a sample and bring it in your pocket or just sneak his condom out of his trash can in the bathroom.

You're right --- if someone offered I'd be grateful for that. But I wouldn't know how to ask.

My father had a vasectomy after I was born, but I think asking him would possibly be the very weirdest social interaction ever...

You have nearly all of the possible causes of the lesions in that 21 year old man s testicle that are discussed in that article ! What do your drs say when you show them this professional medical journal article that lists Crohn s, intermittant torsions, and auto immune as all being possible gonad damaging conditions ? How many do you need to have before they will castrate you ?

I know you rejected doing an orchiopexy, sewing the testicles into the scrotum to prevent twisting on the spermatic cords. But the worst that an orchiopexy could do, causing chronic pain, auto immune reactions, removal of some scrotal organs such as the tunica muscles, and death of the gonads, you already are facing. So, why not give orchiopexy a try ? Even the most radical scrotum stripping orchiopexy is less destructive than fully castrating you.

TopManFL (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:30 am I'm thinking it would have to be a very good friend to do this for you. However, if you have a buddy who has had a vasectomy, you could either get him to provide a sample and bring it in your pocket or just sneak his condom out of his trash can in the bathroom.

At 32 years old, magusuki89 can easily get his own vasectomy.

cutnbulls2ox (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:42 am You have nearly all of the possible causes of the lesions in that 21 year old man s testicle that are discussed in that article ! What do your drs say when you show them this professional medical journal article that lists Crohn s, intermittant torsions, and auto immune as all being possible gonad damaging conditions ? How many do you need to have before they will castrate you ?

I know you rejected doing an orchiopexy, sewing the testicles into the scrotum to prevent twisting on the spermatic cords. But the worst that an orchiopexy could do, causing chronic pain, auto immune reactions, removal of some scrotal organs such as the tunica muscles, and death of the gonads, you already are facing. So, why not give orchiopexy a try ? Even the most radical scrotum stripping orchiopexy is less destructive than fully castrating you.

Because I don't want to. Every single guy I have spoken to who had an orchidopexy regrets it. Every single guy I have spoken to who had an orchidectomy is cool with it on the physical level. Also, at this stage there are papers that show that re sympathetic orchidopathy 'once you pop you can't stop', and frankly the organs are psychologically traumatising after a year and three quarters of searing pain.

cutnbulls2ox (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:43 am At 32 years old, magusuki89 can easily get his own vasectomy.

This would be true were I not under a urology department because of the current crisis. This makes it impossible to get treatment elsewhere in the UK because they would defer to 'the leading team'. The UK is like a dictatorship when it comes to healthcare.

So, I will have to continue negotiating with the urologists. Last position was they said my refusing their mesh solution was self-abuse (regarding the ongoing torsions), so they wouldn't countenance a vasectomy and denervation without also doing the orchidopexy, because they understand that from my perspective it would be a ruse to advance to orchidectomy.

They keep passing me from hospital to hospital trying to have a go at bullying me, and feeding me hope that other hospitals might have a clinical pathway for orchidectomy.

Yes, understood. Once many of these things are triggered, stopping the torsions might not stop what the torsions went on and then triggered in other organs.

I ve talked with men who had orchiopexies at different ages, as young as early teens. Some went on to have kids and did great with sewn balls after orchiopexies.

What would be the downside for you of trying an orchiopexy before doing a full castration ? Your sperm testis barrier is clearly already breached by your torsions. I m dealing with that myself. I rejected doing any orchiopexy on my balls because each dr had a different method of doing an orchiopexy but all of them did huge damage to most of the scrotal contents by either intentionallty removing it, or as calateral damage from the surgery.

Well firstly whatever I have I will have to pay for, as the NHS is so overwhelmed by Covid that waiting lists are running into years, and the situation I have I view as urgent. So multiplying procedures is unaffordable. I would rather keep my finances whole to go to the USA if I have to. I reckon I can afford around £10,000 GBP. A private pexy plus denervation etc is going to be £7000, and at Harley Street that was what I paid for orchidectomy before they cancelled and refunded me (politics)... which if I did both in the long run would be at least £14,000 plus twice the anaesthesia, twice the risk, more disruption to work etc.

Secondly, I want to keep the scrotum as undamaged as possible.

Thirdly, they have outright admitted that if the balls are immobilised, and the nerves are gone so I can't feel anything, there is nothing I could do to make anyone in the UK take on my case because I couldn't "detect"/report symptoms short of a large tumour. So they said it would shut me up. They are not interested in curing/helping me, they are interested in making the kind of case they don't like go away.

Man, what a trap to shut you up and leave you with auto immune problems until your immune system destroyed your balls slowly and painfully. I d be talking to animal vets quietly to get castrated if I was in your position.

cutnbulls2ox (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:21 am Man, what a trap to shut you up and leave you with auto immune problems until your immune system destroyed your balls slowly and painfully. I d be talking to animal vets quietly to get castrated if I was in your position.

If anybody of good standing presented themselves to me with their qualifications and operating theatre, I would happily cross their palm with gold. But I wouldn't want to insult someone in that professional position by cold-calling them with a bribe. As for cutters, it's a no-go for me. Doing something off the books, cocking a snook at the GMC, the tax man or whoever, I would do (to do what I have to do to survive), but that would be an exception to the rules rather than operating outside of a routine clinical environment.

Regarding vets, in this country they are allowed to operate on humans in an emergency, but not otherwise. Curiously that is not so of human surgeons on animals. Anyway, re castrations I think every vet is probably more competent than every urologist, just because day 1 of the job is probably neutering around a dozen pets or farm animals...