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In ancient time, when they clamped scrotum by ancient clamp (in Roman times), what do you think, the testicles were under or above each other? Is there any illustration, schematic diagram of this? (I don't want to use it, I'm just curious.)

Ones like these?

Cybele's castration clamps - medical apparatus of the Magna Mater - Roger Pearse (roger-pearse.com) (https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/201 ... gna-mater/)

Paolo wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am Ones like these?

Cybele's castration clamps - medical apparatus of the Magna Mater - Roger Pearse (roger-pearse.com) (https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/201 ... gna-mater/)

Damn, looking at these clamps gives me phantom pains

yes

Paolo wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/

wp-content/uploads/2015/10/castration_clamp_restoration.jpg

I am pretty sure they are believed to have been used as haemostats in surgery rather than burdizzos.

According to Sex in History by R. Tannahill:

The loop was to keep the penis out of harm's way, while the scrotum and testicles were secured in the jaws of the clamp. They were then sliced off in one stroke. The cut edge was then either stitched up or cauterized. While more painful, it is reputed to have not been any more dangerous than a modern vasectomy. - paraphrased

Apparently they had high survival rate.

Many years ago as a young boy I assisted my uncle as he castrated the young pigs. My recollection is that I would hold the pig's two hind legs while he sliced open the testicles and sliced them off. I think he just put some axle grease in the cavity and turned them loose. There was no attempt at sewing anything up. Seems like they did fine. Not sure what they did with the male calves but they would have done much the same. Then they were steers. In mature stallions they sometimes have to castrate them because they become too unruly. That is a bit of a chore and very dangerous. A kick in the head is probably fatal.

In all three cases the penis is located some distance from the testicles so no problem with getting to the testicles.

I wonder how many balls have fallen off of this clamp. 100? 1000?

Seems like they did fine.

Arterial spasm, as I understand it. In animals, the severed arteries will clench up in many cases, preventing bleeding out. Back in the days of hunting and trapping, you'd sometimes see animal had chewed its foot off and left. Humans tend not to have this built-in survival tool!

I donno Paolo. When you fart, I go through some serious spasms. Hehe

erikboy (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:04 am I wonder how many balls have fallen off of this clamp. 100? 1000?

Ha ha! The thing is useful, reliable, made of good bronze, could last for several decades and even a century!

If she dressed for one person, say for 7 days, then in one year - 52 people, in 10 years 520, well, in a hundred years - 5200. And since one man usually has 2 balls, then in the end it turns out more than 10,000 balls

talula wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:37 am I donno Paolo. When you fart, I go through some serious spasms. Hehe

Everyone does.

Different species are built differently! A Burdizzo works well on cattle, who have a "brittle" spermatic cord, but not well at all (if at all) on humans. Elastrators seem to cause relatively little pain in sheep and goats (seen from personal experience on the ranch), but cause incredible pain in humans. Don't try to use farm animal techniques on humans. They're not likely to work well.

Castration clamps that look very similar to the undecorated Roman example in the link above were still being sold for use on sheep well into the 20th century. There is a very similar one in the Handel House museum in London where an exhibit celebrates the many castrati who came to London to work with Handel. There are apparently a few in Italian museums as well. It's a good design that was used for centuries.

While there doesn't seem to be any detailed description of their use on humans, we do know how they were (are?) used on sheep. Once the scrotum is opened, testicles are round, smooth, and slippery from blood. The cremaster muscle tries to pull them up into the abdomen to keep them safe. The clamp holds them in place for the surgeon to carefully remove each of them through the scrotum. The scrotum is then held firmly enough for cautery and stitches. It only clamps the cord tightly enough to serve as a haemostat and to hold it in place to cauterize it, not enough to crush it as a Burdizzo would. The single description of the castration of an Italian choirboy that I've found gives no information on how the artery in the spermatic cord was sealed.

For Tenducci, we have his wife's written statement that he was castrated at the age of 9. We also have testimony from a court case against him (as quoted by Helen Berry 2011, pp. 287-88). Tomasso Massi, the son of the surgeon who assisted his father in the surgery testified:

"I do recollect very well when my said Father in the Year One Thousand Seven Hundred and Forty Eight Castrated the said Mr Giusto Ferdinando Tenducci who resided in the Village of Monti St. Savino...and I do clearly recollect that the said Operation of Castrating was performed by Order of the said Tenducci's Father who was then Servant of the Commissary of the said Village and that such Operation was made at a House in the said Village when the said Tenducci resided.... I do clearly recollect that my Father Castrated the said Tenducci of both parts by making the usual Incisions in the Groin and of having Executed and cut out his Two Testicles and the Spermatick Ducts...."

__________

Berry, Helen. (2011). The Castrato and His Wife. Oxford University Press, xiv,312 pp.

magusuk89 (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:09 am I am pretty sure they are believed to have been used as haemostats in surgery rather than burdizzos.

You are right, but this does not negate the fact that some of these products, judging by their design and high cost, still most likely have a ritual purpose for the castration of people.

I couldn't stand it, and tried on myself with two woodsticks. If you try to close the clamps, the testicles will located below each other. First right and below the left. I think if they really closed the clamps, the cords and veins was ruined.

MikeStone (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:16 am I couldn't stand it, and tried on myself with two woodsticks. If you try to close the clamps, the testicles will located below each other. First right and below the left. I think if they really closed the clamps, the cords and veins was ruined.

Excuse me, please send a photo. Understood nothing! I can't figure it out for myself due to the lack of appropriate bodily details .

I recall seeing similar decorated devices in the museum of torture in Prague a few years ago. Not only can humans devise the most insidious devices of cruelty, they seem to enjoy decorating them as well.

Roman castration clamps. Cult of Cybele/Attis:

Paolo wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/

wp-content/uploads/2015/10/img_1934.jpg

Paolo wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/
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MikeStone (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:13 am uote]
wp-content/uploads/2015/10/img_19341.jpg

Pao [/quote] lo wrote:Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/

wp-content/uploads/2015/10/castration_clamp_restoration.jpg

Who will understand them, pagans are masochists?! They probably liked to use these tools in relation to their people, and not just to torture their enemies.

Click: Snapshot of the book page I mentioned (https://64.media.tumblr.com/5afd4e93e03 ... f0f731.jpg). Not much to say about it.

The painful lose of one's balls never looked so good and artistic. Plus the roman were just plain nuts. [pun intended]

Paolo wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:12 pm Snapshot of the book page I mentioned (https://64.media.tumblr.com/5afd4e93e03 ... f0f731.jpg). Not much to say about it.

Thank you very much for a clear and complete explanation! I figured out how this tool was used. Now I know for sure that I will never be able to use it, since I do not have the part that needs to be inserted into the corresponding round hole of this tool .

I remember seeing a box like affair but I never found out what it was called or how it was used.