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I've been low T (around 200 ng/dL) for years, so I'm familiar with low energy, diminished libido, ED, etc. I expect there will be a difference after orchi, but since I'm already part of the way there, will it be a slight difference or a drastic difference? I mean, how much lower energy can I get?

At around 200 ng/dl you're at the low end of testosterone, but still not at eunuch level. You probably have some degree of hypogonadism, with some increased breast tissue and maybe your penis and testicles have shrunk. Low energy and diminished libido, ED, are all part of the low T equation, but those things will be the least of your worries after your castrated. Once you're totally castrated, you will enter into a new world in a few short days. The danger is deep dark depression, the kind you have never experienced. A few days after you're castrated, with your testosterone down at or near 45/50 ng/dl, you will be an emotional mess. Yes, total castration effects vary from one individual to the next, but all in all, from my experience, the effects will seem drastic. After I was completely castrated, I tried to live life as a eunuch, but the effects were too much for me to handle. I couldn't function at all. Maybe you'll be different, but if I were you, I'd ask for some Androgel just in case. My depression overwhelmed me, it was dark and dangerous and the cause was hormonal ablation. Adrenal glands manufacture testosterone, but it's insufficient to stem the desperate depression that you might experience. I'm very serious, it was scary. I had to use Androgel or another form of testosterone, it was only after adding back testosterone did my mental and emotional faculties return. So ask for some Androgel or some form of testosterone just in case the depression overwhelms you. Now that said, once you're castrated, your then able to control your testosterone and you might be able to start out with a certain amount and then reduce it slowly over time, giving your body time to adjust to it. I will also warn you that living as a testosterone free eunuch will cause osteoporosis and heart problems. You'll need to have a bone density test every year. Well, good luck to you.

I'd agree w/ Hash... 200 is low, but not that terribly low, so you probably aren't getting a lot of highly notable effects from it... But going all the way to castrate levels (under 50) has a LOT more consequences, and there are significant health risks, physical and mental, to being 'hormone free'.

However this does not necessarily mean having to go on supplemental T. There is the option of going the other direction and going on supplemental estrogen - using either T or E avoids the bad parts of having nothing. Estrogen avoids the negative parts of having T, but will tend to give you some breast growth and fat shifts to a more feminine distribution (how much is variable, but if you are on medicare because of age, you probably won't get a lot)...

I use an estrogen patch that I need to change twice a week, but is otherwise not a lot of hassle. Since I've been on it, my boobs have grown enough for me to notice when I'm naked, but not enough to be obvious with a shirt on.

There are also some artificial forms called "SERMs" that act selectively to give the health benefits of estrogen, but supposedly won't give as much breast growth. However they have the downside of increased risk of blood clots, which is why my doc won't put me on them. (I'm already at increased risk because of my paralysis)

This will be part of your discussion with the docs at the TG center as endocrine management is part of the process for any sort of transition.

ex-Gooserider

Hash & WheelyCurious, thank you for that feedback. I hadn't even thought about depression. I guess if you begrudgingly have to undergo the procedure for health reasons, that would be depressing. Do voluntary eunuchs experience depression also?

NaturalEunuch wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:38 am Hash & WheelyCurious, thank you for that feedback. I hadn't even thought about depression. I guess if you begrudgingly have to undergo the procedure for health reasons, that would be depressing. Do voluntary eunuchs experience depression also?

That is a good question, and I'm not sure if there is a definite answer, as there haven't been a lot of studies done on voluntary eunuchs. If you look through a lot of the past discussion, you'll learn that a lot of the work that went into the eunuch chapter of SOC v8, and a good bit of the research has actually come from this site, particularly several of the mods and "Jesus"...

Of course there are two things to keep in mind -

1. No matter what the research and experience of others suggests, each individual is different and it is not possible to predict what a particular person's experience will be with any accuracy. Bell curves only work for large groups, and their very existence says there WILL be individuals that don't do what is indicated by the curve...

2. From what I've seen reported by others here, (which includes a mix of voluntary and involuntary eunuchs, and it's not always clear which) the results vary a lot, from deep depression to delight.... It seems that some of the reaction may be from the hormone changes (which presumably would be minimal if doing the chemical castration for a while first?) and some from the physical impact of no longer having those precious family jewels.... Presumably the latter would be less of a problem for the voluntaries, but there is always the difference between imagination / expectation and reality... I'd say the best bet is to at least establish a mental health safety net before surgery so that it is there if you need it.

WheelyCurious

Perhaps a good method would be to start with a certain amount of testogel after castration and keep reducing it so that the loss of testosterone does not come suddenly.

It is obviously different from individual to individual, I have been castrated two years ago and asked for androgel just in case, as it always was my wish to become eunuch. Have to say that my main problem is weight gain and hot flashes and ED of course but I didn't have any issues with depressions up to know. My athletic performance also went down. I'm slower and exhausted quicker. I took no T for a couple of months and still leave it from time to time, and when taking gel I take a dose as low, that I don't get hot flashes but my sexual interest is still not there, neither an ability to perform sexually And I have to say I am very happy like it is.

So taking gel is a good idea. the good thing about it, that the dose can be determined by yourself

DerKastrierte (imported) wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:58 pm It is obviously different from individual to individual, I have been castrated two years ago and asked for androgel just in case, as it always was my wish to become eunuch. Have to say that my main problem is weight gain and hot flashes and ED of course but I didn't have any issues with depressions up to know. My athletic performance also went down. I'm slower and exhausted quicker. I took no T for a couple of months and still leave it from time to time, and when taking gel I take a dose as low, that I don't get hot flashes but my sexual interest is still not there, neither an ability to perform sexually And I have to say I am very happy like it is.

So taking gel is a good idea. the good thing about it, that the dose can be determined by yourself

Thank you for your answer. Apart from the weight gain, that would be exactly what I would like to achieve. Therefore, I think that I will try to keep a low T value after my castration.

so good luck for you castration, just read it takes part in early 2023, so probably soon. Let us know how it worked and lost of sports will help preventing the weight gain!

Thanks again. I am still waiting for the final permission, but I expect it every week, so that nothing should stand in the way of a castration in the spring. I will keep you informed.

Please listen. The depression I'm talking about is not the result of mental anguish or sadness because you've lost your genitals, it's not that type of depression. Hormonal related depression is different, it's not the result of sadness becaus

Hash (imported) wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:42 am e your penis and testicles have

been cut off and you're regretting your decision, that's not it. It's the result of hormonal loss that triggers an uncontrollable depression that you've never experienced. You have no control of it, you're not thinking at all, it just happens to you because your hormones have plummeted. Not much is written about it regarding castrated men, but a lot is written about castrated women, women who undergo hysterectomies. It's the same thing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819414/

NaturalEunuch wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:38 am Hash & WheelyCurious, thank you for that feedback. I hadn't even thought about depression. I guess if you begrudgingly have to undergo the procedure for health reasons, that would be depressing. Do voluntary eunuchs experience depression also?

For me it wasn't the depression that got me. I went a year and a half after my orchiectomy without external hormones. The first year was awesome, first six months I was horny as heck, going to swingers meets and being topped as the Eunuch I wanted to be. After the first 6th months when my natural testosterone fully diminished and I only produced the 30ng/dl that the body still produced I started losing interest in things I was into sexually before my castration. Another 6 months went by, I stopped having sex and started getting odd feelings that I didn't have any emotions, felt blank and a bit hollow. I started estradiol at the beginning of November 2022 and after just a couple weeks I snapped out of the emptiness I felt inside. Now I'm dealing with some depression and will be seeing about upping my intake in case it's due to hormonal imbalance. Am working with my Dr to get on the right track, but it rakes some time and patience.

Hash (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:20 am Please listen. The depression I'm talking about is not the result of mental anguish or sadness because you've lost your genitals, it's not that type of depression. Hormonal related depression is different, it's not the result of sadness becaus

Hash (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:20 am 672861320]
e your penis and testicles have

been cut off and you're regretting your decision, that's not it. It's the result of hormonal loss that triggers an uncontrollable depression that you've never experienced. You have no control of it, you're not thinking at all, it just happens to you because your hormones have plummeted. Not much is written about it regarding castrated men, but a lot is written about castrated women, women who undergo hysterectomies. It's the same thing. h
[/quote]
ttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819414/

For my part, I also think that it would be dangerous to exclude the possibility of such hormonal related depressions after castration. But I also think that these depressions may not necessarily affect everyone. Therefore, one should expect it after castration, and increase the T level if necessary. However, if depression does not occur, I would try to avoid the use of artificial testosterone as much as possible.

justapup (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:48 am Another 6 months went by, I stopped having sex and started getting odd feelings that I didn't have any emotions, felt blank and a bit hollow. I started estradiol at the beginning of November 2022 and after just a couple weeks I snapped out of the emptiness I felt inside.

That is very interesting. Why, may I ask, estradiol? Estradiol is likely to induce feminization, isn't it? Why not small amounts of testosterone?

Personally for me castrate levels are around 25ng/dl and below. It means that below that level I feel free of any T side effects. No morning woods at all, no interest in sex or porn, masturbation rate around twice a month. 50ng/dL I already start to have some T effects. certainly not as much as normal male would have, but still, frequently enough to be worried. Like masturbation rate is more than once a week. At 600ng which is my normal level average mb rate is 1,5 times a day, to stay sane.

Regarding depression, castrate levels make you more emotional. It means both ways more emotional. Sure you may develope a lack of dopamine, but that is not depression yet. So far my only depression episode happened during full T levels.

Castor wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:42 am That is very interesting. Why, may I ask, estradiol? Estradiol is likely to induce feminization, isn't it? Why not small amounts of testosterone?

In my journey becoming a eunuch, I've realized that the less manly I am the happier I feel. Feminization is not a worry of mine.

justapup (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:48 am Another 6 months went by, I stopped having sex and started getting odd feelings that I didn't have any emotions, felt blank and a bit hollow.

that sounds similar to lack of dopamine. I know how it feels. Low T levels can induce that condition. It is unfortunate that it is not very well studied in eunuchs and fighting methods against it basically forces you out of eunuchdom.

erikboy (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:40 am that sounds similar to lack of dopamine. I know how it feels. Low T levels can induce that condition. It is unfortunate that it is not very well studied in eunuchs and fighting methods against it basically forces you out of eunuchdom.

That is something I will talk to my Dr about. She is always open to my interests. Thank you for the info.

After castration I went almost a year without testosterone. Overall I felt fine. I did go through the hot flash stage, but mentally I felt quite good. I had some physical changes like improved skin, far redistribution and loss of body hair, along with a loss of erections. I started testosterone therapy because of my doctor's insistence. I recently asked my doctor why it would be an issue for someone over 50 to go without testosterone. My theory is it should be no different than what a post menopausal women experiences.

It is worth noting that osteoporosis is a MAJOR health issue for post menopausal women.... That 'hunch back" you see on the stereotypical "little old ladies" is a classic symptom. A more serious concern is the increased risk of bone fractures (particularly hip fractures) due to loss of bone mass - remember those "I've fallen and can't get up" ads? A hip fracture has a high risk of ending up living in a nursing home for what remains of a much reduced lifespan... You are sort of right about being sort of what a post menopausal woman experiences, but that isn't such a great experience....

Also worth noting that absent removal of the ovaries, a post menopausal woman still has both the adrenal production of testosterone that everyone gets and SOME production of estrogen.

You need either T or E to avoid bone health issues among other things. All that I've read suggests that either does about as well in terms of preserving health.

WheelyCurious

WheelyCurious wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:18 am You need either T or E to avoid bone health issues among other things. All that I've read suggests that either does about as well in terms of preserving health.

WheelyCurious

Exactly what my TG Surgeon who performed my nullification told me; "it's not good to be without sex hormones, Testosteronal or Estradiol; pick one." My PCP who has experience treating TG folks, said the same thing. I told him that I didn't want anything to do with Testosterone anymore, so he sent me to get my legs scanned looking for clots and when they were clean, he wrote me the script for the Estradiol.

I've been a lot happier and much calmer on the Estradiol than I ever was with the low dose Testosterones I wound up taking after my Orchiectomy to take care of the night sweats and return of some of the sex drives and hazardous self bondage activities I'd been engaged in which is why I got the Orchiectomy in the first place.

i Get confused over numbers.

My medical provider says that the range of Testosterone, Free Calculation in pg/ml is 47-244

My last lab test was 98

Yet a chart I found on the web says Free Testosterone in men in pg/ml should be 6.9

Then another chart shows that free testosterone for men my age should be 11.3 pg.ml

Other data is shown in ng/ml.

So all very confusing.

Anyway it won't be long now until my T level is nearly 0 pg/ml or ng/ml as I have stopped taking the Androgel prescription.

Standards are wonderful... That's why they create so many of them for us to pick from....

What I USUALLY see referenced for T is ng/dL or nanograms per decileter, w/ the castrate range being from 0-50 ng/dL and 'normal' between about 200-750 ng/dL, with a fair bit of variation in what they suggest for a 'normal range.

Note that even after getting you usually still get some T production from the adrenals, so you may not go all the way to zero, but definitely should drop below 50 ng/dL (around 30 seems common)

However if you stop taking T, you should definitely be monitoring your bone density, and may want to consider using E or possibly a SERM in order to maintain it.

WheelyCurious