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I hope I can get a little help here, I've been searching the 'extreme body modification' sites and whatnot since I got the gumption to admit to myself I want something like this. I want information for a girl who wants to be a 'eunuch.' I'm not sure that term applies. I've not found any other women who seem to be interested. And a whole host of sites decrying the mutilation of women without their consent, and no information for a woman who is willing.

Sunny,

I assume that you are a young lady. Can you explain this compulsion? Is it sopmething that is erotic to you? Are you disgusted with sex? Are you disgusted with your sex? Has a Lover rejected you? Does your body look ugly to you? Do you have a compulsion to be a masochist?

Just why is it that you want this?

Let us explore...

A-1

Well Honey,the female equivalent to male castration would be to have your ovaries removed.Genetic Males are usually casterated to reduce sex drive.Or,and as I have done,add some estrogen to try to achieve a little calmness and try to have a little of what you already have.But for you to remove your ovaries would put you on a hormone level simular to mine.You would have to replenish or take calcium for your bones.Maybe you was meaning a a clitorectomy. That would be equivalent to penectomy=sexless.Well no enjoyment anyway.What are you trying to achieve Dear?Hugs,Leona

Difficult questions. Clitoridectomy, and ovary removal, as well as historectomy. I know a LOT would have to change. I'm not certain if the vaginal column can be wholly removed.

As for the 'why' questions you're asking, those are both myriad, and, to be frank, a lot more private. But seeing as that is one of the reasons I'm here...

It isn't as much that the notion of these changes is sexually gratifying, as it is that it seems a return to...control?

As though I'm coming back to a form that is, more natural, or less so really, but feels more natural.

I'm not disgusted by sex, but I'd rather not need it, or want it, if at all possible.

I'm not disgusted by my body, though I'll admit it is not perfect. But, as I have said, a LOT of work would need to be done to make it perfect.

As for hormones, I'm aware that these changes are...drastic. Especially for women the threat of things such as osteoporosis.

I was hoping I'd find some kindred spirits. To know I'm not alone in my way of thinking. Perhaps eventually find someone who could help make it possible.

Well Dear I hope we are kindrid spirits.Then your reasons make sense and

I would think if the Medical Surgens can create a vagina,they can surely remove one.That would be a total nullification.Keep in touch,Hugs,Leona

Total nullification. Precisely.

The odd part is, I've yet to meet a single other woman who also desires this, or something similar.

Plenty wish they could be rid of their ovaries or uterus, though most often purely out of concern for pregancies, or weariness at menstruation.

Several fantasize about clitoridectomy, though often out of a masochistic urge. Or to control sexual satisfaction, which they feel is...unnatural or unclean.

None yet seem to share my point of view. But perhaps some of the genetic males here, however they view their gender, or lack thereof, will understand.

Yes, I do recall an article on BME someplace of a woman also contemplating what it means to be a female eunuch and wanting to be one. Sorry, I don't recall more. It's in the public area of BME.

Since you have an interest in female nullo, you might have more luck finding like minds if you join the IAM community at BME.

In my opinion, there is another way to make a female besides total removal of all reproductive structures: a set of piercings which completely close the vulva save a small opening for menstral blood and urination. That is, one can take about 24 small gold rings and close it shut. There's an article on EA about this treatment being applied to Roman slaves.

Good luck,

awen

Sunny,

What you are daydreaming of is surgically possible.

I do not know of a surgeon who would do it, though. I will not be so presumptuous and condescending to recommend therapy, but before a reputable surgeon would entertain doing this, therapy would be required.

It has been my experience that lot of women are becoming chronicallly infected with Chlamydia, or other Chlamydia-like infection and are not being properly treated for it. The problem being that the female reproductive system, unlike the male reproductive system, is open into the peritoneum. I know that this is probably a lot of medical mumbo-jumbo to you but please bear with me.

In a female, the infection enters into vagina, goes into the uterus and thne into the abdomen through the fallopian tubes. It chronically infects lower regions of the pelvis that results in constant, chronic pain. If left untreated scarring of the fallopian tubes renders one sterile and the area called the cul-de-sac, a fold of peritoneum between the uterus and the rectum, fills with infected fluid and makes life a living hell of constant, chronic, crampy pain. The treatment is I.V. therapy with a strong broad-spectrum anti-biotic such as Flagil and lots of bed rest. For chronic cases, flair-ups are common and as long as they are treated in the manner that I described and as long as the chlamydia or whatever does not develop an immunity to the antibiotic the condition can be put into remission and probably cured, if the woman does not get herself re-infected. Usually, it has been my expereince that re-infections occurs from an chronically infected male, or a promiscuous one, or some combination of the two. Generally, males are spared most symptoms that I described except for a chronic pus-like discharge out of the urethra that comes and goes. Usually, they have no pain and are without significant symptoms. Some of the bastards refuse to see the doctor or to abstain from sexual relations until they are non-contagious. These are the ones that need de-sexed, not the women.

So, as a woman experiences these things, she is likely to want it all cut out out of frustration. I am sure that may not be a good alternative. Untreated, this condition usually results in a lot of misery and finally the need for a hysterectomy, usually vaginal, that results in the vagina being left a blind pouch, sealed off from the internal abdomen. Sometimes part of the cervix remains but if so, it is sealed.

In such a surgical procedure the uterus and vagina are prolapsed externally and the blood supply is ligated and then the vagina sewn shut and anchored back into the proper place in the pelvis. It would be a simple thing at that point to do what you ask, but a surgeon would not do it out of fear of a woman changing her mind and suing later. Also, a husband, or I suppose a lover of long standing, could sue the surgeon for causing the loss of a sexual partner.

Other medical conditions that cause the female misery include prolapse of the uterus that produces much the same symptoms, i.e., chronic pain. The brutal act becoming more and more popular among the kinky that is commonly known as "fisting", in a female, usually results in the tearing of the muscles of the vaginal wall and causes rectoceles and cystoceles. Formerly, these were injuries sustained only during vaginal delivery of a big baby or after several births, and a woman under 30 rarely had them. Now, women in their 20's are showing up with these problems. These conditions are herniations of the rectum and the urinary bladder, respectively, into the vaginal canal. This causes incontinece under stress such as happens from sneezing, jumping rope, or jogging. You leak pee into your pants. Rectoceles, if bad enough, cause the need to digitally manipulate the vaginal wall to properly deficate and to clear the rectum of fecal material. (You have to push your poop out with your finger.)

Now, Let me tell you that all of the conditions that I just described are, usually, surgically correctable. Hysterectomy usually results in early menopause, and sexual need diminishes significantly, even if the ovaries are left.

If what you want is an erotic dream, perhaps it is best left that way. If you are experiencing any of the symptoms or conditions that I have outlined, see a reputable gyneocologist in a teaching medical center. Such a place is where doctors are trained and so will have the best doctors that you can find to put your bottom together properly.

At any rate, if you are having medical problems that are causing you to want your sex cut out, first try getting it fixed so that it is reasonably normal and then try living with it that way after the repair surgery for at least two years before you pursue having anything done that would remove your ability to have sex should you choose to do so.

I will tell you the same thing that I tell everyone else. Once you have it cut out, it will never grow back and it will be gone forever. This is something that is irreversable. I hate to see anybody do this, but for some strange reason, it bothers me more when females want it than when males want it.

A-1

I have read a little on the nature of 'chastity' piercings and things of that nature. It seems to me to be a reasonable alternative for someone who is sexually gratified by the idea of nullification. However, for my purposes, it is rather like hiding something you'd rather just not have at all.

A-1. I appreciate the concern you show in your post, and allow me to strip you at once of any misconceptions. My desires do not stem from pain or misfunction, or any combination. I will overlook the suggestion of Chlamydial infection, singular or serial, and the mention of fisting. I do not think that these were mention to be specifically insulting, though perhaps they could be construed as such. Your mention of therapy is important I think, as it is one thing perhaps everyone could benefit from.

And I applaud your forthrightness in admitting that a female nullification bothers you more than a male's. I think perhaps this is nearly universal, and is largely based on the outmoded remnants of chivalry in our society. Also, many knowledgable people, such as yourself, recognize that the scope of female nullification is much wider, and that the process itself is much more dangerous.

Pardon my pontification. I do encounter a bit of condescension from people who hear me discuss this subject. I know that was not anyone's intent.

Sunny,

You are right. I never meant to offend. You have to cover all possibilities, though.

Usually, men who desire this are fed up with the need for sex and just want to be free.

Women, however, have a sex drive that is different from a man and do not desire this as often, or if they do they are not verbal about it.

Please be careful as you pursue this. You will probably end up in Asia, though, because this is just not done in America or Europe.

A-1

Sunny (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:55 am I hope I can get a little help here, I've been searching the 'extreme body modification' sites and whatnot since I got the gumption to admit to myself I want something like this. I want information for a girl who wants to be a 'eunuch.' I'm not sure that term applies. I've not found any other women who seem to be interested. And a whole host of sites decrying the mutilation of women without their consent, and no information for a woman who is willing.

Welcome to the Archive, Sunny.

I think there are many here that understand your plight. Although it is much easier for the male genitals to be modified, there stands no reason that you should not be able to obtain a similar goal. We do host a transgendered section here on the Archives, but I understand that is not your desire. Most of the members that are transgendered here are male to female. Some of the web links for transgender sites will lead you female to male links as well.

Finding a surgeon (for male castration), is at best, very difficult for the non-transgendered. I can imagine it would be the same for you, or even more difficult, as well. Perhaps persueing a gender councilor would be an option you could consider? At the very least they may offer you another source information or other options you may not have thought about.

Osteoporosis is a concern for a eunuch (as well as depression), but there are ways to help ward it off. Having any issues with depression should be addressed before considering castration. I am unfamiliar with the medications used for chemical castration of a female (my main interest is in male castration/transgendered), but I am sure they are out there. More than likely they would be a prescription medication to which you should be under a doctors care while taking them.

Testosterone (in both sexes) is the main player in sex drive. Males seeking castration are wanting to lower that sex drive. Bear in mind that by removing estrogens, the testosterone will influence one's body. It may in fact masculinize you or make you more aggressive. I would suggest that you get a blood test for hormone levels. It is possible you have a hormonal imbalance.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you will find some answers here and make a few friends along the way. We are a friendly group and we welcome you.

Christina (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:27 pm Welcome to the Archive, Sunny.

Osteoporosis is a concern for a eunuch (as well as depression), but there are ways to help ward it off. Having any issues with depression should be addressed before considering castration. I am unfamiliar with the medications used for chemical castration of a female (my main interest is in male castration/transgendered), but I am sure they are out there. More than likely they would be a prescription medication to which you should be under a doctors care while taking them.

Lutenizing Hormone Releasing Hormone agonist. See the hbsoc at http://www.hbigda.org (specifically the section on hormone related interventions in youth).

Christina (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:27 pm Testosterone (in both sexes) is the main player in sex drive. Males seeking castration are wanting to lower that sex drive. Bear in mind that by removing estrogens, the testosterone will influence one's body. It may in fact masculinize you or make you more aggressive. I would suggest that you get a blood test for hormone levels. It is possible you have a hormonal imbalance.

Cool.

awen

Sunny (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:57 pm Pardon my pontification. I do encounter a bit of condescension from people who hear me discuss this subject. I know that was not anyone's intent.

We are very sorry about that. This should be a place where you can find camaraderie. And you are by no means alone in the world.

Sunny (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:57 pm I have read a little on the nature of 'chastity' piercings and things of that nature. It seems to me to be a reasonable alternative for someone who is sexually gratified by the idea of nullification. However, for my purposes, it is rather like hiding something you'd rather just not have at all.

Understood. You are discussing vaginectomy, which is somewhat of a common procedure, but not as common as a penectomy for MtF transsexuals. There are a number of surgeons who do this. A few are listed here:

http://myria.home.mindspring.com/Indigo/ftm.html

Meltzer states:

http://www.tmeltzer.com/procedures/ftm.shtml

"Though not a prerequisite to other procedures, removal of the uterus and ovaries (hysterectomy and oophorectomy) are frequently performed. This can be done vaginally with laparoscopic assistance, or vaginally. The vagina can also be completely removed at the same time or as a separate procedure."

Monstrey in Ghent will perform:

http://www.ftmphallo.com/Monstrey/MonstreyLetter.htm

"An abdominal hysterectomy/ovarectomy, combined with a vaginectomy and a reconstruction of the fixed part of the urethra."

Some of these doctors will also want to create a weenie as well, but phaloplasty is not really required as part of FtM surgery, and most FtM people never have it done. Many stop at the hysterectomy/oophorectomy/vaginectomy stage, about which is what you inquired (note on terminology: oophorectomy is removal of the ovaries).

While I am at it, let me welcome you to the forum. I, too, have had surgery. Three years ago, I had my weenie removed, but at the same time, had vaginoplasty (the creation of that dreaded vagina--the opposite of vaginectomy). However, I do know of a number of people (mostly born male, though) that opt for nullification. I do not see why it would be impossible for you--many FtM people achieve these very same surgeries.

Hugs,

Kelly

. .

Kelly_2 (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:35 pm . Understood. You are discussing vaginectomy, which is somewhat of a common procedure, but not as common as a penectomy for MtF transsexuals.

. . .

"Though not a prerequisite to other procedures, removal of the uterus and ovaries (hysterectomy and oophorectomy) are frequently performed. This can be done vaginally with laparoscopic assistance . . .. The vagina can also be completely removed at the same time or as a separate procedure."

. . .

Some of these doctors will also want to create a weenie as well, but phaloplasty is not really required as part of FtM surgery, and most FtM people never have it done. Many stop at the hysterectomy/oophorectomy/vaginectomy stage, about which is what you inquired .

. ..

Hugs,

Kelly :)I don't really understand why a ftm would desire to have a weenie that can only be used for peeing given the complexity of the surgery. It is certainly not as functional as the mtf vagina.

Interesting that breast removal hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Albeit, the only thing I can remember reading about it, as an adjunct to desexing, was a passage about a Skopt ceremony in which the breasts were put through a sheet with two holes in it, and then excised. (I think. This was in Tompkins' book.)

Historically, some women who were placed in harems in the Middle East, were subjected to removal of the ovaries. I presume this was to prevent the birth of individuals who might compete with favored heirs for an inherited title or for inherited wealth.

I have encountered a few women that have talked about nulification in this manner so, you are not all by yourself. I don't think that any of them have gone any further than talking, but I found their interest to be sincere. My hope for you is the same as for any of us: that you have the chance to explore the depths of your own needs and motivations. And to be content within yourself. FLO

. . .

Sunny (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:55 am I want something like this. I want information for a girl who wants to be a 'eunuch.'

As a woman, you are more fortunate in this respect. As long as you have only tiny breasts, all you really require is a hysterectomy to remove your uterus. That will stop your periods and eliminate any possibility of becomming pregnant. If your breasts are large you might want them reduced. Also, hysterectomy and breast reduction can legally be performed by licensed medical doctors without psychoanalysis.

If you have your ovaries removed there will a possibility of developing osteoporosis and some masculine traits. Do you really want that?

There is really no need to have your vagina removed. It is not seen unless you spread your legs and separate your labia. Also, it does not have to be used just because it is there.

Kelly_2

Thank you! Those links are very useful. If the surgeons listed would be willing to assist with someone not interested in becoming male, I may have found exactly what I was looking for.

Uncle Flo

I appreciate both the hopes you're willing to share with me, and the assurance that I am not alone. Thank you.

Mac

I don't know that being female makes my desire any easier than a male's would be, as the invasive nature of these operations makes doctors unlikely to proceed with them without a medical necessity. The difficult for anyone interested in nullification is finding qualified, and willing surgeons. Precisely why I'm so delighted with the help of Kelly_2. As for your claim that a vaginectomy is not needed, I would argue that no one here, of any gender, is interested in nullification because of the visibilty or appearance of their genitals. The fact that I do not often see my vaginal column does not lessen my desire to be without it.

Sunny,

If it sealed off, and it can be, it would be the same as not having it. Just a thought. Good luck on your quest.

A-1

Sunny, pardon me if this is too personal or painful to answer, I don't mean be inappropriate, but as you said, this is the forum for these kinds of discussions... were you ever raped or violated sexually?

I've heard rumors before that there exist mainstream surgeons who are willing to remove a woman's healthy uterus just because she doesn't want to menstruate anymore. I don't know how true this is, though.

Also, some underground cutters will perform labia removal and clitoris removal.

(An Onymous)

In the quote that you gave

"

An Onymus (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:01 am Historically, some women who were placed in harems in the Middle East, were subjected to removal of the ovaries.

"

Have you any more information about this?<br>

How did they manage to to perform bilateral oophorectomy (spaying) without killing the woman (or child) in antiquity (since they would not have had the same degree of anatomical knowledge, asceptic techniques or anaesthesia)?

Just curious...

Tiddly Pom--

I have to admit that I made the statement without remembering where I read the passage about the removal of women's ovaries. As is true of a lot of the references I have referred to over recent years, it may have come from the Peter Tompkins book, THE EUNUCH AND THE VIRGIN. I do remember reading a passage somewhere, which included the assertion that the ovaries were removed from women so that they could be used in harems, without the possibility of their becoming pregnant.

Strictly speaking, the period in which the removal of women's organs in this way would have occurred, might not necessarily have been the time generally referred to as antiquity. It could have been as late as the nineteenth century. The surgery is somewhat invasive, but would not be substantially more so than caesarean section, which, as the name indicates, is supposed to have been used in Roman times. I have to admit that I am not knowledgeable about the history of surgical procedures, and so can't speak to the issue of whether operations of this type would often have been successful before the advent of modern medicine.

A1:

It would not be the same as not having it, any more than vasectomy is the same as castration.

I am apparently not quite getting my point across. Nullification, complete and total, is what I want. I want it gone.

DocT:

Not that it is any of your business, but no, and no.

happousai:

Should you happen to learn the names of those surgeons, please post it, or send me a private message.

Sunny (imported) wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:12 pm I am apparently not quite getting my point across. Nullification, complete and total, is what I want. I want it gone.

Good point. I understand completely. We have seen some interesting posts, many not exactly on topic. That happens in threads--they can certainly drift.

But many others wish the same thing--

Sunny (imported) wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:12 pm Nullification, complete and total.

You are hardly alone.

Many surgeons advertise following the SoC reccommendations by the HBIGDA. This would require obtaining a "letter" (actually two of them) for genital surgery approval. However, if you deal directly with the surgeons, you may get what you need. Indeed, the FtM surgeons in the list that I provided do perform the surgeries that you require. Or you could seek out the "letters."

Vaginectomy is more complicated than a simple male castration. A hospital setting with an experienced surgeon seems logical to me.

I would suggest contacting the surgeons in the list and explaining what you need and then plan accordingly.

Hugs,

Kelly