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Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:23 am
by MacTheWolf (imported)
After speaking with my comrade, EunuchBob, I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005. If released, she will still be under house arrest.

Robyn is the slave girl of Todd Bertrang, both of whom were arrested in an FBI sting operation many months ago. All this time there has been no trial because the government lawyers keep changing the charges.

Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to circe two underage girls in front of two FBI agents posing as a couple who wanted circing for their daughters. Hence he was charged with conspiracy.

Robyn was arrested as a co-conspirator, even though as property, she had no rights, in his household, to object.

The FBI case must be weak if they keep changing the charges.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:24 am
by A-1 (imported)
...
MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:23 am I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005....

Do you think that she has turned state's evidence against him?

If she has, and she claims that was was done to her was non-consentual, the case against Todd could be getting a hell of a lot stronger.

She is such a cute kid, I cannot picture anybody doing that to her, for any reason.

Mackie, if they have "DE-PROGRAMMED" her re: "slavery" it could get real nasty.

🚬 A-1 🚬

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:20 am
by A-1 (imported)

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:50 am
by Blaise (imported)
If the Feds have a case against Todd Bertrang, where is it? From what some who post here say, Todd Bertrang is not an angel, but I keep wondering what case the Federal Government has.

Thanks for the update.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:27 am
by bullgeo (imported)
MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:23 am After speaking with my comrade, EunuchBob, I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005. If released, she will still be under house arrest.

Robyn is the slave girl of Todd Bertrang, both of whom were arrested in an FBI sting operation many months ago. All this time there has been no trial because the government lawyers keep changing the charges.

Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to circe two underage girls in front of two FBI agents posing as a couple who wanted circing for their daughters. Hence he was charged with conspiracy.

Robyn was arrested as a co-conspirator, even though as property, she had no rights, in his household, to object.

The FBI case must be weak if they keep changing the charges.

Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to
"circe"??

I checked the dictionary with negative results...could you please tell me what "circe" means.

Bull

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:38 pm
by Dave (imported)
There is another thread titled "Todd Bertrang Arrested" that is part of the discussion

ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3920501/

Highlights:

Tood Bertrang and his slave were arrested follawing an FBI sting operation. Two 'parents' contacted Todd, and met with him regarding the circumcision of their two daughters, aged 8 and 12. He agreed to perform the procedure, with the aid of his slave. Both were arrested as a result.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:08 pm
by jane_says (imported)
I know precious little about this case, only what I've read here and the stories I've read following links. I have gone and read a lot of what was posted in the Yahoo! group where Todd posted, but that's the end of my knowledge on the subject.

What I'm wondering, though, Wolfie, is whether the defense you mentioned - her being his property with no rights, etc. - will fly in court. It's not like we can go through a legal process to give over our free will to someone else. I understand that lots of people enter into that kind of relationship with others, but I'm wondering if the legal system will accept such an explanation. Is ther a precedent for something like that?

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:47 pm
by DocT (imported)
The Feds have a very high conviction rate, like 97%, because they spend at least two years accumulating evidence before they dangle the final piece of bait. They have a check list of something like 22 items that has to be filled out before they arrest anyone. They are very good at this and there is nothing left to chance.

I'm guessing that the two agents posing as parents were simply the final bait used to establish beyond any doubt that this man was willing to mutilate these children against their will. It is most likely all on video tape so there is no room for interpretation. I only know what I'm reading here, but if Todd is a person who would agree to do this to two young girls... my God, I don't have words. Regardless, they probably have two years of video, computer records, taped phone calls, etc.

No, Jane, no court in any country I'm aware of recognizes slavery. To my knowledge the last country to give up slavery was Saudi Arabia in 1962. But I'm not sure of that bit of trivia.

They will take Robyn's state of mind into account, but I think they will determine that her willingness to give up her will makes her a risk to the public. They will probably put Robyn on parole, meaning that she won't be able to associate with many people from her former life for two to five years. They will also most likely demand an extended period of psycological therapy and evaluations.

Mac, don't get mad at me, I know they are your friends and I'm not trying to upset you or prejudge them, but based on what YOU have told us here, this is how I think it will go. Adults can do what they want with each other, whatever makes them happy, but people who would abuse children... I don't think a judge or jury is going to be very understanding of their slavery culture, and I'm understating this. Actually, if this gets public attention it could blow the lid off slavery.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:21 pm
by surf_toad (imported)
i thought they got the two of them to plee bargain to child pornography so they could quietly sweep this under the rug and still spank them with enough time to get this thing quiet and forgotten?

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 pm
by SplitDik (imported)
Despite the presumed careful preparation of the case by FBI, they may get entangled in a number of very tricky issues regarding consent on this one.

First of all, it was "parents" approaching Todd so it could be argued that they were responsible for any consent (parental consent is fairly powerful and can override a number of things, such as statuatory rape). In other words, if Todd presumed that adults could consent to the procedure then it is reasonable that parental consent would cover children.

Secondly, from my understanding (maybe wrong) the "parents" had to repeatedly ask Todd to do it, so he may appear reasonably considerate on the manner of consent.

How they hope to charge Robyn is beyond me. I guess this could be considered child abuse and child abuse must be reported (it is crime to know about it without acting). But then again she has had the procedure done to herself in a "slavery" relationship -- so either how can someone expect her to recognise the abuse and/or report it if she does not recognise the abuse to herself?

Overall it is a very interesting case that may set some precedents in the BSDM community. What can a voluntary slave consent to? What part can a slave play in conspiracy charges?

I think that the only way in current legal context (i.e. no new precedents), is to consider Robyn mentally unfit. I think it would be easy for her defense to make that case.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:31 am
by jab (imported)
...
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 pm In other words, if Todd presumed that adults could consent to the procedure then it is reasonable that parental consent would cover children.

Secondly, from my understanding (maybe wrong) the "parents" had to repeatedly ask Todd to do it, so he may appear reasonably considerate on the manner of consent.

I'll bet it's wrapped up in "he was doing medical procedures without a license, which is going to be close to aggravated assault" if they wanna claim it.

...
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 pm How they hope to charge Robyn is beyond me...

Overall it is a very interesting case that may set some precedents in the BSDM community. What can a voluntary slave consent to? What part can a slave play in conspiracy charges?

Easy. In the eyes of the law, she's a legal adult. Anything she does or participates in, is her action and her responsibility. (And knowing about a felony, before it happens, is pretty much the definition of being an accessory to a crime.)

Honestly, this particular "setup" troubles me. While the small amount I've read/seen of Todd makes me nervous, the notion of parents cutting their daughters (or trying to set up someone with that as the pretext) makes my blood boil.

-Jeff

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:01 am
by Blaise (imported)
Many years ago the police Portland, Oregon set up a friend of mine on child pornography charges.

I do not remember the details. My friend was not at all interested in child pornography but he ran a massage parlor. I think that a detective threatened to harass him if he did not obtain the pornography. My friend acted in response to threat. However, he entered the massage parlor business only when people in Portland had become tired of tolerating that kind of business. The parlors located in residential neighborhoods and were a nuisance.

My friend stepped over the line in obtaining the pornography. He set himself up as much as being a victim.

Anyone who would mutilate a child needs jail time. The idea is awful. There is no excuse for such conduct.

T

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:48 am
by Dave (imported)
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 pm Secondly, from my understanding (maybe wrong) the "parents" had to repeatedly ask Todd to do it, so he may appear reasonably considerate on the manner of consent.

No, that's not an excuse for commiting a crime.

Let's say that I repeatedly ask you to break the law - how about a crime like (a) murder (kill my wife, please), or (b) use your drivers license to register for a hunting license or (c) to purchase alcohol for teens, or (d) cash a forged check in the supermarket. And let's say that I ask you 10,000 or 20,000 times over a period of years... over and over and over...

How many repetitions of the request to commit an illegal act does it take for an act to become legal???

So no, a well-considered motive is not an excuse to commit a crime.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:13 am
by TheOtherSide (imported)
Dave (imported) wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:48 am No, that's not an excuse for commiting a crime.

Let's say that I repeatedly ask you to break the law - how about a crime like (a) murder (kill my wife, please), or (b) use your drivers license to register for a hunting license or (c) to purchase alcohol for teens, or (d) cash a forged check in the supermarket. And let's say that I ask you 10,000 or 20,000 times over a period of years... over and over and over...

How many repetitions of the request to commit an illegal act does it take for an act to become legal???

So no, a well-considered motive is not an excuse to commit a crime.

The equation changes considerably though, when it is a law enforcement official repeatedly asking a person to break the law. I don't know about you, but that sounds suspiciously like entrapment to me. After all, he didn't seek the parents out, they sought him. They refused to take no for an answer, on multiple occasions. Exactly how long are law enforcement officials allowed to keep after you to break the law, without the case being compromised?

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:31 am
by Dave (imported)
TheOtherSide (imported) wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:13 am They refused to take no for an answer, on multiple occasions. Exactly how long are law enforcement officials allowed to keep after you to break the law, without the case being compromised?

Sorry, but I don't know the legal theory about entrapment well enough to tell you. What I can say is that entrapment doesn't mean the perpetrator didn't commit a crime, only that without the temptation by the police a perpetrator never would have committed the crime.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:15 am
by A-1 (imported)
SplitDik (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 pm How they hope to charge Robyn is beyond me. I guess this could be considered child abuse and child abuse must be reported (it is crime to know about it without acting). But then again she has had the procedure done to herself in a "slavery" relationship -- so either how can someone expect her to recognise the abuse and/or report it if she does not recognise the abuse to herself?

Overall it is a very interesting case that may set some precedents in the BSDM community. What can a voluntary slave consent to? What part can a slave play in conspiracy charges?

I think that the only way in current legal context (i.e. no new precedents), is to consider Robyn mentally unfit. I think it would be easy for her defense to make that case.

HELLO!

Robyn is not who they are after here.

Upon arrest I suspect that they both either hired or more likely were assigned attorneys by the court. No attorney their right mind would allow Robyn to stand trial along side of Todd and be equally culpable under the law for those charges.

If Robyn showed up in court with the "SLAVERY STORY" thing and presented it as a REAL 24-7 lifestyle, the court may have very well referred her for a psychiatriac - medical evaluation, (The judge would have no choice but to do this or it would be a reversable procedural error in any court of appeals), the results of which would have undoubtedly made her incompetent to stand trial and would eventually remand her to the custody of a "guardian" or perhaps be made a ward of the state of California. No medical doctor is going to buy Robyn's story of being orgasmic or being more sexually responsive after Todd cut her genitalia off. Once her mental examination rendered her incompetent to stand trial and her medical examination was over and it was found that she did in fact have her genitalia cut off, the charges could be brought against Todd for that, too.

Keep in mind, the mentally incompetent cannot consent to surgery or to anything else. S & M games are one thing, but Todd cut the poor girl's crotch off. No woman deserves that, SLAVE or otherwise. Shit, that in itself is not according to the U.S. Constitution. You cannot "sign" your constitutional rights away to be mutilated at the whim of another. Ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation? Yep, Abraham Lincoln signed it! It is still in effect.

As far as the S & M community go, when is consent withdrawn, or at what point abuse, rape or assualt and battery occurs, is not a one-sided thing and once it becomes known it is prosecutable whether reported or not. A person judged incompetent is incapable of legally giving consent.

Once this hits the law books as a precident the websites with the girls with the brusied asses and the S & M abuse of the women will be next. Nevada and California are going to need a lot of new prison space. You know that these gals are getting big Meth money allowing their bodies to be abused for the sake of us Internet perverts. Or, perhaps no money at all, just Meth.

Regarding Todd, just research your rape laws in California, and you will see what I mean. But keep in mind, these charges against Todd are federal. The State of California must get in line for Todd. Yes, Todd raped Robyn. Todd might as well went out and tied down a woman that he took out on a date date and cut her genitalia off as far as the court is concerned. Why do you think that he has not been able to make bail?

So, as far as Robyn "Consenting" to have her genitalia mutilated, that is most likely just not the case now from a legal standpoint. Even in spousal abuse cases the laws are written so that the victim no longer has to testify.

Yes, that is how the law, medicine and society will classify it, with Robyn being mentally incompetent and physically abused in a relationship. Any "agreement" that she signed to allow herself to be treated in that manner will not stand muster in a court of law and I would suspect that charges against Todd for mutilating Robyn's genitalia are either filed or are pending. God knows how the prosecutor will file them. One thing is for sure, it is going to be some heavy, heavy duty shit.

Let me put this in perspective for you.

What would happen if you had a relationship with a mentally handicapped person, a Dustin Hoffman - RAINMAN type and then castrated him or perhaps nullifed him in an act of "love" and then posted pictures of yourself doing it on the internet?

Repeat this to yourself. "I WOULD BE FUCKED OVER BIG TIME!"

Now, believe it!

Furthermore, Todd posting the pictures on the internet of himself performing the act was the final nail in the "airtight" case against him. That posting was public domain on Yahoo. It is STILL POSTED! No search and siezure Constitutional rights will bear in that evidence. Those tattoos on Todds arms are as good as a full size picture of his face while doing the act. Furthermore, he cuts that poor thing's clitoris and labia minora of and then places parts of it on her tongue, which is not going to play well with either a judge OR jury. So, man, stick a fork in his ass, because he is DONE!

Even if Robyn did have an orgasm during the ordeal, (which I seriously doubt), her hands were clearly restrained in the pictures. Once the cutting started, what choice did she have? I am not sure that kidnapping charges will stand, but do not be suprised at how bad this gets, because this is way, way over the top. Kidnapping is still, technically, a capital offense. Life in prison for those who are convicted is common, especially if bodily harm is involved. Get my drift, here? Much would depend on if the police investigation revealed that Robyn had prior treatment for mental problems. If this is the case the government's case against Todd gets expotentially stronger.

So, Macie - da - wolfie, plan on writing Todd lots of letters as he does his time. He is going to be getting a lot of it, I suspect. Send him some money occasionally because he will need personal items. He may be out in twenty years or so, but don't bet on it.

Also, if you care for him, please advise him to get into protective management on the first day that he hits the correctional facility, because as soon as the other inmates find out what he done or has been doing, he will never be safe in the general inmate population.

His best bet is to go for an insanity defense. I doubt if it will work, now, though. If it would it is perhaps the only way that he will be able to avoid serious prison time.

I know that this may be the pot calling the kettle black, but Todd is deeply disturbed.

🚬 A-1 🚬

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:08 pm
by Uncle Flo (imported)
A few brief comments. Investigating officers can do whatever they deem necessary to gather evidence of your believable intent to commit a crime including pay you to perform an illegal act. As long as you willingly go along with the suggestion any number of approaches to you are acceptable. And consent to a criminal act such as battery, even by the victim, is not a defence to that criminal act. In fact, at least in some jurisdictions, consenting to such an act is a criminal conspiracy. --FLO--

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:52 pm
by jane_says (imported)
Well, today's the 25th - has anyone heard anything? Did she get out?

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:47 am
by Riverwind (imported)
HELLO!
A-1 (imported) wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:15 am Robyn is not who they are after here.

Upon arrest I suspect that they both either hired or more likely were assigned attorneys by the court. No attorney their right mind would allow Robyn to stand trial along side of Todd and be equally culpable under the law for those charges.

Furthermore, Todd posting the pictures on the internet of himself performing the act was the final nail in the "airtight" case against him. That posting was public domain on Yahoo. It is STILL POSTED! No search and siezure Constitutional rights will bear in that evidence. Those tattoos on Todds arms are as good as a full size picture of his face while doing the act. Furthermore, he cuts that poor thing's clitoris and labia minora of and then places parts of it on her tongue, which is not going to play well with either a judge OR jury. So, man, stick a fork in his ass, because he is DONE!

Even if Robyn did have an orgasm during the ordeal, (which I seriously doubt), her hands were clearly restrained in the pictures. Once the cutting started, what choice did she have? I am not sure that kidnapping charges will stand, but do not be suprised at how bad this gets, because this is way, way over the top. Kidnapping is still, technically, a capital offense. Life in prison for those who are convicted is common, especially if bodily harm is involved. Get my drift, here? Much would depend on if the police investigation revealed that Robyn had prior treatment for mental problems. If this is the case the government's case against Todd gets expotentially stronger.

So, Macie - da - wolfie, plan on writing Todd lots of letters as he does his time. He is going to be getting a lot of it, I suspect. Send him some money occasionally because he will need personal items. He may be out in twenty years or so, but don't bet on it.

🚬 A-1 🚬

A1, you are right on the money, having had several chats with Todd and watching him in the BME chat room, he has always impressed me as a predator. You can do the things he does but DONT ADVERTIZE IT.

RW

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:14 am
by Geotarr (imported)
Dave (imported) wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:31 am Sorry, but I don't know the legal theory about entrapment well enough to tell you. What I can say is that entrapment doesn't mean the perpetrator didn't commit a crime, only that without the temptation by the police a perpetrator never would have committed the crime.

It depends on the state, and the powers that be. Well in the preliminary, a person can't be held if there are no charges filed a day after that of the arrest. But if charges are filed, it has to be resolved within the least amount of time, but of course this is subject to maneuvering and politicking so it's never a set rule. (and is highly subjective to the presiding judge)

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:43 pm
by Riverwind (imported)
Geotarr (imported) wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:14 am It depends on the state, and the powers that be. Well in the preliminary, a person can't be held if there are no charges filed a day after that of the arrest. But if charges are filed, it has to be resolved within the least amount of time, but of course this is subject to maneuvering and politicking so it's never a set rule. (and is highly subjective to the presiding judge)

Geotarr,

I believe it was the FBI that made the arrest, federal court, different rules.

River

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:54 am
by A-1 (imported)
Mackie the Wolfie...

So, tell me what you know about this case. What is the status now?

I see that they have finally taken the group down and the pictures of poor Robyn's mutilation off of Yahoo.

Please let me know of the status of Todd and that poor little thing Robyn.

Thanks... but,

Honestly, how could somebody do that to her?

I do not buy for a minute the story of her being sexually responsive. Her sexual responsiveness is now a historical memory. Read This... (http://www.ndwj.kabissa.org/ArticlesRes ... 3/ab3.html)

More information (http://www.fictionwriter.com/double.htm) Still more... (http://www.astraeasweb.net/politics/nytgen.html)

Scandinavian Legislation as it concerns Physicians... (http://ask.lub.lu.se/archive/00016463/0 ... d_2004.pdf)

Ramifications of Legislation on the Intersexed person (http://www.ipdx.org/law/fgm-law.html)

Doctors disagree regarding surgical "enhancement" (http://www.jendajournal.com/vol1.1/dvagina.html)

More information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision)

Infibulation (http://www.lockmeup.com/cb/facts/pinker ... ation.html)

Dr. Laura Berman, director of a treatment clinic for female sexual dysfunction in Chicago, the Berman Center, said some of her patients complained that they ended up with pain or could no longer be sexually aroused after undergoing some of the procedures. Unlike most other cosmetic procedures, she said, genital plastic surgery has the potential to harm function.

"Any time you're having surgery that involves any kind of intervention in the genitals you're asking for trouble in regard with your sexual function," she said.

Related Web Site... (http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/public/ ... rgery.html)

As recently as 1979, the "Love Surgery" was performed on women in the United States. Dr. James E. Burt, the so-called Love Surgeon, introduced "clitoral relocation" (i.e. sunna circumcision) to the medical establishment. He believed and acted upon the idea that excision does not prevent sexual pleasure but enhances it. Dr. Burt practiced in Ohio for almost ten years before he was exposed after which he gave up his license.

.

Doctor loses license over "Sunna" circimcisions (http://www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/fgmintro.html)

More... (http://www.e-cosmeticsurgery.com/html/article4.htm)

We Bury our mistakes... (http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May- ... jun03.html)

# Did you ever think doctors were scary?? Ohio gynecologist James Burt, M.D. subjected hundreds of women, often after they had been anesthetized for other procedures, to a disfiguring operation involving clitoral circumcision and vaginal "reshaping" which he called the Surgery of Love. Since peer review does not cull these monsters from the profession, women need to speak of the unspeakable and scream until we are heard.

Web site for above... (http://www.now-va.org/donc_winter2000-01.html)

The "COVERUP" (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... ai_7648537)

Well, I have ground my point into a Blunt object. There is no point in further bludgeoning.

🚬 A-1 🚬

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:34 am
by Blaise (imported)
Why haven't the yellow journalists jumped on this case? It's sufficiently lurid to bring attention.

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:42 am
by A-1 (imported)
Softee,

The last news service article that I saw on it was old.

Maybe the judge put a gag on it. The federal statutes call for 5 years upon conviction. Probably, Todd won't get that much time unless they can pin something else on him.

I was worried about Robyn.

I wonder what became of them.

🚬 A-1 🚬

Re: Robyn Soon to be released

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:32 am
by ToddBertrang (imported)
I hope all of those watching this old thread actually noticed that I had absolutely NO charges in relation to any (which incidentally were all on adult's) circumcisions I did, including robyn's. Ever wonder WHY? Because what I did was NOT illegal. Get that straight, what I actually did was NOT illegal - Todd Bertrang