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In a recent post by The Fraj (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showpos ... stcount=19), he says: 'After a lot of talking, finally, I know exactly what I am; what a few here may be perhaps. Neither and both at the same time. We might very well be the Third Gender; the thin line between Yin and Yang. Not easily classifiable in terms of behaviour.'

That's an intriguing thought: Third Gender. Could we explore that notion in this thread? Many posts at EA describe the physical effects of castration, but what are the INTERNAL changes wrought by having no T? (So we're talking about non-HRT eunuchs.) Can we discover any common internal changes/traits?

To get things rolling, here are unexpected changes I noticed post-castration:

- Increased concern about appearance (this tickles my wife!)

- Increased empathy/compassion, with tears to back it up

- Deeper emotions

- Ability to hug my 5yo son in times of distress like a mommy would

- Increased disdain for violence/war

What sort of internal changes surprised you?

I think for me its been the way i feel about others and how much more love i have for people i dont even know.I used to be afraid to drive anywhere but now i can drive anywhere i want with out getting upset or afraid i might get lost or some other dumb thing.I just have so much more confidance then i ever had i just wish i could have felt this way earlier in my life but thats ok i feel so much better about others and myself i will take what was given me

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm Ability to hug my 5yo son in times of distress like a mommy would.

I don't quite understand why this one was a problem before castration.

Paolo wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:34 pm I don't quite understand why this one was a problem before castration.

Hi Paolo,

Formerly when my son would hurt himself, I'd approach and ask, 'Here let me hold you.' If he didn't reach out, he didn't get picked up. Now, he doesn't get a choice -- I scoop him up.

There was also a tearful time in church where I was the one in distress, and I held him for dear life.

I understand the hugging the child.

When any of my kids were hurt,

Mom would hold them while she comforted them etc.

Dad, (me) I would question them to determine how hurt they were.

Today I would react just like mom does.

I was just as concerned as before the difference was the approach.

River

When you say non-HRT, do you mean non E too?

plix (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:53 am When you say non-HRT, do you mean non E too?

Hi Plix,

We can include folks on E. Otherwise, the sample size will be too small, I'm afraid. In either case, it will illuminating to see what personality traits are governed by hormones (or the lack thereof).

Besides, this will be a good way to get to know everyone better.

I understand exactly what you're getting at Bryan,

After breakfast I was hanging out our washing, it was quite early and the sun was brilliant. Which was odd - considering the country I'm in! I just remember the deep green of the grass, seeing the wonderous colours of the flowers, and seeing two children playing happily, noisily and carefree in the street. There was just such a feeling of peace and contentment. It's a level of happiness I think I've seldom known on male hormones (or with testicles).

Like Bryan said, it's increased sense emotions and sense of compassion (which would also explain the wonderful caring nature of the people here!)

I think it would be interesting to take a poll of eunuchs who support/deplore the war on Iraq. I think you'd probably find most eunuchs (compared with men) would find the murder of women and children and destruction of homes far too stomach-churning to justify any supposed idiological goal/war on terrorism/weapons of mass destruction/war on a single dictator (or whatever they're ever-changing justification happens to be!). Maybe the same would be true of women?

I appreciate this is a divisive issue, and apologise, feel free to chew me out if you dissagree, (please keep it off this thread though) and please be nice!

I can totally agree with the appearence issues. I'm much more concerned with how others see me, and more concious of how I appear since castration. Just like women I guess.

But I do adore the new me. Something I've felt all my life, but testosterone (not estrogen) does tend to sheild from all emotions, both the ups and the downs - which may go some way to explaining why many eunuchs have trouble dealing with depression.

And it would also explain why men seem more bold and clinical/scientific about things. And why eunuchs and women tend to be more artistic/humanist, because they are in closer contact with human (and mother!) nature.

I'll spare you all the lecture, then, on insensitive-asshole-men who don't deserve the children they fathered.

I just verbally tore one up tonight and I'm giving serious consideration to sicking the lawyer on him next.

Of course, when he reads the microscopic print on the photo agreement form - after he signs it - it'll be too late anyway.

I've experienced much of what has already been shared.

Emotions certainly come easier, and they're not as stable as they once were. One day I'm depressed and wanting to kill myself, and the next I'm happier than I could ever hope for.

The senses in general have become more intense. This includes sight, smell, taste, and touch. Colors are brighter, and foods taste better. I find I'm now more willing to sit down and take things slow with eating. Before I just rushed through eating even the sweetest foods without giving it much thought, but now I find myself wanting to take my time and actually enjoy the food.

When I'm outside I take more time to appreciate the beauty of the environment around me. Sometimes just notcing how crisply blue the sky is is enough to kick me right out of a depression. The green of trees and mixture of the flowers is also something I can't ignore. I often find myself looking at a scene and thinking "wow, this is beautiful". I rarely did that before.

When I'm not depressed I can actually feel quite calm and content.

thefraj (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:54 am I understand exactly what you're getting at Bryan,

After breakfast I was hanging out our washing, it was quite early and the sun was brilliant. Which was odd - considering the country I'm in! I just remember the deep green of the grass, seeing the wonderous colours of the flowers, and seeing two children playing happily, noisily and carefree in the street. There was just such a feeling of peace and contentment. It's a level of happiness I think I've seldom known on male hormones (or with testicles).

This was the first sign of change when I began horomone therapy to transition from male to female. Colors were SOOOO vivid and shocking to me, that I had to wear sunglasses indoors and at night, for like a month. Hearing increased drastically, tastes were more enjoyable and various, pungent/pleasant odors beacame significantly increased, and most of all my sense of touch was EXTREMELY heightened. I have neared orgasm from my bellybutton alone. A mere brush on my arm sends chills down my spine. I became one giant nerve begging to be touched and held.

Not all was positive though... I bruise easier, and my pain tolerance has bottomed out. Now I whine about little things that never would have bothered me previously. I cry alot too... and I have gotten WEAK! I used to be able to carry a 100lb rucksack, 2 bandoliers of ammo, a couple mortar rounds, and a 16lb machine gun, and keep treking. Now I struggle to open a jelly jar.

There is alot to be said for the elimination of testosterone, but like everything, it has pro's and con's. I think all the pro's are WAY worth the con's in this instance. But that's just me. Everyone is different.

sag111 (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:53 pm I think for me its been the way i feel about others and how much more love i have for people i dont even know.I used to be afraid to drive anywhere but now i can drive anywhere i want with out getting upset or afraid i might get lost or some other dumb thing.I just have so much more confidance then i ever had i just wish i could have felt this way earlier in my life but thats ok i feel so much better about others and myself i will take what was given me

I really love your posts, Sag. They bring me back to a state of loving and feeling at times when I'm instead "analyzing". Loving always feels better than inspecting and judging. Thanks for that.

It's funny how different each person's response is to the effects of testosterone. I'm on a stiff dose of testosterone now after 30 years of replacement therapy. At times in the past when for one reason or another I would would not get testosterone I would become impossible to live with. I would become emotional, nit-picky, severe and closed-hearted to my wife and kids. I would lose my ability to manage people effectively at the office. I would lose discipline over things like my diet and exercise. On testosterone I'm so calm; I can handle so much more stress. I maintain a light, loving atmosphere in my home. I recover more quickly from emotional events, if that makes sense.

Well, it's just great that we, being all so different, can get along and help each other - have a sense of community with each other here.

DocT

I guess I should preface this by saying I have Hypogonadism (low testosterone) and am not castrated (not yet anyway)

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm - Increased concern about appearance (this tickles my wife!)

Yes! Although I didn't really think about it as having to do with Hormones. My wife thought I was becoming metrosexual.

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm - Increased empathy/compassion, with tears to back it up

Weird but true. Crying at some idiotic Radio Commercial was the tip off for me.

- Deeper emotions

Humm... Yes Probably so.

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm - Ability to hug my 5yo son in times of distress like a mommy would

No, not so much. I'm just not a hugger.

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm - Increased disdain for violence/war

Nope, I tended then (and now) to remember the people jumping from the flaming twin towers and the Police, fireman who were smashed to death along with the brave folks who fought back and stopped the white house from being burned to the ground. And died because of it. As Ernie Pyle said in WWII BRAVE MEN!

bryan (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:22 pm What sort of internal changes surprised you?

Anger at everyone. Inability to do small things. Hatred of the phone and whoever was calling to bother me. Tiredness. Mood swings. Hot flashes, Lack of any sex drive but not able to see it until it was shoved in my face.

I feel much MUCH better under HRT. I'm not fond of my shrinking testes or the constant ache I get from them but I really do like myself better with testosterone.

I'm fasinated at the comments about transition from male to female sex hormones. Talk about seeing how the other side lives. I really believe that women DO have a stronger sense of smell for example and all the rest. Its amazing what hormones do for us.