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Why DO we have these thoughts about castration?

I know Enk has already asked something similar (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7935). But I think this is worth exploring for everyone.

It isn't normal to have thoughts like this. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But the vast majority of males cringe at the idea.

>>What makes us so different?<<

Firstly, it's probably worth saying "it's not our fault", anymore than a gay person chooses to be that way, or a transsexual deliberately asks to be born into the wrong body. I don't believe these desires are chosen. But inborn; There have been points in my life when I've wished to be 'normal'. Tried not to have those "intrusive thoughts" when I'm at work, out shopping or just sitting at home. What causes these thoughts?

Inability to accept being male, a problem with gender idetification?

A form of self-mutilation through body modification?

A form of self-punishment to alleviate social guilt cause by desires that are "taboo"?

A means of escaping a troubled past - of becoming someone new?

I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts.

Well, to be honest, I think the internet has opened people's eyes FAR more than ever before. People are more aware of the effects of testosterone, and it is EASY to see how a male could grow a certain distaste for the effects it produces. Finding a "cure" to this problem is no further away than the click of a mouse. Hell, that's why most of us are HERE in the first place.

Not to say that there weren't people who wanted to be eunuchs in the past. We know this to be false. But the internet has brought a kind of "great awakening" to most of society.

I am also of the mindset that: When sexually stimulated, the mind is an open door.

Now, say a guy was into women in leather. An internet search could come up with domination. The concept might turn a guy on, and he will whack off to it. He will become fascinated, and dig deeper. Things that once disgusted him, become more appealing. Eventually he delves into light Cock and Ball torture. Then heavy... then he runs across castration. Jerks off to the idea. He orgasms, and because of the erotic nature of the fantasy, seeks it out again. Eventually, he trickles down, and ends up here. Thats how you see SOOOOO many people who seek to be castrated by a mistress.

This is not unreasonable. When I was a proffessional dominatrix, I always asked my "clients" why they are interested in domination. 99% of them point to the internet, and the slow evolution of BDSM sexuality, that brought them to the door of my dungeon for a real world taste of domination.

Again, that is to be separated from a TRUE eunuch like yourself, who simply realized you were unhappy with your body, and made the necessary correction. No different than me changing my sex. (well a little different). I don't believe a person was born with the desire to be a eunuch persay, but a person can be educated to realize that the unhappiness they feel are a result of genitalia that simply poison their body. No, it is not the average, but no more or less wierd than getting a tattoo.

You saw a problem, and you rectified it. I did the same, and I have never been happier or more adjusted to life in the society we live in. I hope the best for you as well!!! ~hug~

thefraj (imported) wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:51 am Why DO we have these thoughts about castration?

I know Enk has already asked something similar (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7935). But I think this is worth exploring for everyone.

It isn't normal to have thoughts like this. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But the vast majority of males cringe at the idea.

Actually, if you look at the number of dominatrixes working in any given city, and that these women are booked full time, and that they almost all give cock-and-ball torture services, and that many say they will not do castrations, I think that men mixing up sexual pleasure and genital pain is actually pretty common.

Maybe it is not fully normal, but definitely common enough not be be abnormal either.

Castration is pretty extreme, but look at the total number of members on any of the internet forums for guys seeking castration. Literally thousands.

I think it is very common, and the Internet is letting us realize that.

For some it's certainly a sexual fantasy, there's no doubt about that. I think a lot of times in these cases things do get their start online. I'm sure there are a lot of people who never had any interest in castration till they came here to the Archive.

But aside from fantasy, there are others who have a real desire to lose their balls for a wide variety of reasons. Some dislike their libido, others don't want to be boys, and there are others still who just don't want to go bald or get prostate cancer. All of these could be considered perfectly valid reasons for wanting castration, though some might disagree on their level of validity.

What interests me most is the ones who have known from a young age that they wanted to be ball-free (like river ) It's very similar to transsexuality, only they don't take it quite as far. What is this third gender called eunuch and are there people who are born into it? Given the fact that many know from a young age they want to be eunuchs just like transsexuals know they want to be the opposite sex, I think it's likely there are some people

transgirl23ny (imported) wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:28 am born with the desire to be a eunuch.

Are all these reasons equal? Many times here on the archive there are some reasons, particularly fantasy, that are criticized as reasons for seeking castration. What if those who fantasize are eunuchs too, just in a different way?

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:56 am For some it's certainly a sexual fantasy, there's no doubt about that. I think a lot of times in these cases things do get their start online. I'm sure there are a lot of people who never had any interest in castration till they came here to the Archive.

But aside from fantasy, there are others who have a real desire to lose their balls for a wide variety of reasons. Some dislike their libido, others don't want to be boys, and there are others still who just don't want to go bald or get prostate cancer. All of these could be considered perfectly valid reasons for wanting castration, though some might disagree on their level of validity.

What interests me most is the ones who have known from a young age that they wanted to be ball-free (like river ) It's very similar to transsexuality, only they don't take it quite as far. What is this third gender called eunuch and are there people who are born into it? Given the fact that many know from a young age they want to be eunuchs just like transsexuals know they want to be the opposite sex, I think it's likely there are some people

[quote="transgirl23ny (imported)" ti

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:56 am me=1126628880]
born with the desire to be a eunuch.

Are all these reasons equal? Many times here on the archive there are some reasons, particularly fantasy, that are criticized as reasons for seeking castration. What if
[/quote]
those who fantasize are eunuchs too, just in a different way?

Well sweetie, I think that transsexualism is not alone in the fact that some individuals are not entirely comfortable with the body they were given. The existance of a 3rd gender is not a new phenomena... its a fact of life. There are intersexed individuals, gender varient, male, female, sissies, tomboys, and eunuch is no exception to all of it.

Sadly our Christian based (yes I said it, it's a historical fact, and I wont lie about it) ... our Christian based society is sadly in only 2 checkboxes (M) or (F). There is little positive reinforcment to the existance of 3rd genders, and I'm afraid our society is a long way away from changing that. It's a shame...

It's funny, after posting the starting thread my mind wandered in that direction too. Both transgendered folk and the the eunuch group often find themselves self harming. What's really interesting is that the former group is aware at a much earlier age, and with the eunuch-wannabe group it developes later, often around teens, and tends to be eroticised and directed towards the testicles, as opposed to the penis.

I wonder - is it possible to be a eunuch born into a mans body? As a eunuch, the existance of a penis would not be too distressing, but what does become upsetting is when the full male characteristics begin in puberty. Which would explain why the self harm occurs during arousal, and maybe intertwined with sexual activity? I know for myself and a few here this is often cited as a reason for castration. Lowered sex-drive, etc.

Is it possible to not identify with being fully male, but not wish to change genders? Or at least - not all the way?

I'm starting to wonder if there really, really is another gender - neither male nor female. But something different.

Could it be that societies view, and current trends in thought are helping make this desire more difficult to understand?

Thanks SplitDik, Plix And Jessica!:) Oh - love the new avatar btw Jessica! ♥

~Rog.

thefraj (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:25 am It's funny, after posting the starting thread my mind wandered in that direction too. Both transgendered folk and the the eunuch group often find themselves self harming. What's really interesting is that the former group is aware at a much earlier age, and with the eunuch-wannabe group it developes later, often around teens, and tends to be eroticised and directed towards the testicles, as opposed to the penis.

I wonder - is it possible to be a eunuch born into a mans body? As a eunuch, the existance of a penis would not be too distressing, but what does become upsetting is when the full male characteristics begin in puberty. Which would explain why the self harm occurs during arousal, and maybe intertwined with sexual activity? I know for myself and a few here this is often cited as a reason for castration. Lowered sex-drive, etc.

Is it possible to not identify with being fully male, but not wish to change genders? Or at least - not all the way?

I'm starting to wonder if there really, really is another gender - neither male nor female. But something different.

Could it be that societies view, and current trends in thought are helping make this desire more difficult to understand?

Thanks SplitDik, Plix And Jessica!:) Oh - love the new avatar btw Jessica! ♥

*blush* Thanks Rog!

I fully believe there is a 3rd gender. Many ancient cultures recognized other genders aside from male and female. Some people are happy being MULTIPLE genders, there is a spectrum here.

When it comes down to it... I believe in types of Eunuchs. Real ones, and ones who only want to do it for sexual reasons. The latter has higher chances of regretting it later.

There certainly is no standads here... everyone is their own person. I don't think we should encourage creating gender boxes, but encourage individualism. Whether its for gender or something else... people should do what they need in order to be happy. "And if it harm none, do what thou wilt"

I may be qualified to speak to "the eunuch born into a male body". I was just that person and my genitals became a painfull reminder that I was not "right". Now as a eunuch I am more at peace with my SELF and I no longer hate who I am or more to the point WHAT I am. I am a eunuch I always have been a eunuch inside. I think that pretty much covers the 30,000 foot synopsis of me.

Sorry about that [edited] it was a little excessive.

The thing with pictures is that they're just too much of a load on the EA server and the bandwidth.

HOWEVER, the way Fraj did his picture was to "hotlink" it to a file NOT stored on the EA server by using the IMG command that is built into VBulletin.

What this does is simply load code that says "Hey, look over there on the www and get that picture." All the EA server has to do is serve out a few bits of code. It's the server on the www that does all the work, but YOU still have to wait for the picture to come up.

The problem with hotlinking is that most servers track this, and they get irate that you're pulling images off of their site without actually looking at it.

It's different if it's YOUR box, though.

Personally, I don't have a problem with regular, respected users posting a small image file this way now and then. Just let us know first, please. And by the way, I liked that picture!

Thanks Paolo

I guess hot linking does mean an extra thread to load on peoples machines (I do try keep images rather piddly in size ... for speed), but I can understand why it may still be a problem (you won't want just anyone advertising or posting 'unsavoury images' I guess it could open a bitofa pandoras box So obviously I don't want to upset anyone.

To be honest, it was just a 15 minute thought last night, and probably nothing more than "pop psychology". If anyones' really bothered I don't mind putting it back, but there's no loss really

~Rog.

Paolo wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:31 am The thing with pictures is that they're just too much of a load on the EA server and the bandwidth.

HOWEVER, the way Fraj did his picture was to "hotlink" it to a file NOT stored on the EA server by using the IMG command that is built into VBulletin.

What this does is simply load code that says "Hey, look over there on the www and get that picture." All the EA server has to do is serve out a few bits of code. It's the server on the www that does all the work, but YOU still have to wait for the picture to come up.

The problem with hotlinking is that most servers track this, and they get irate that you're pulling images off of their site without actually looking at it.

It's different if it's YOUR box, though.

Personally, I don't have a problem with regular, respected users posting a small image file this way now and then. Just let us know first, please. And by the way, I liked that picture!

That's how I post ALL of my pictures. There is a site where you can upload what you want, and it provides the HTML or the IMG extention to link the picture. I use www.photobucket.com but I am sure there are others... I wouldn't know what to do without my photobucket account, lol...

Interesting thread i never looked at myself as the third gender but as i look at myself now and how i lived my life befor becomming a eunuch i have never been as happy as i am today.I havent ran into to much problems so far when i tell people i am a eunuch and if i do i dont have much to do with them as i feel they wernt realey my friends anyway.Yea i kind of like being called the third gender but i have always liked being diffrent.

It's probably just best to put the www link in and if we want to see the picture, we can go there and see it.

Thanks!

Roger, send me a link to it again, please.

I liked it.

Cheers Paolo

Well, here's a nicer one (larger) and truecolor (JPG) as opposed the 256-color gif (for transparancy)

Gender Spectrum (http://thefraj.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gender_spectrum.jpg)

_______

original GIF version is here (http://thefraj.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gender_spectrum.gif)

Thanks!

~Rog

Hehe, okay, going back to the thread; there's a question from both the Anne Moir and COGIATI test which stuck in my mind because it touches on this 'inability to fully identify with being male'. Nothing more, (no mention of changing genders!)

Your penis and testicles are destroyed, perhaps due to an accident or injury, but they are gone forever. You are otherwise the same as now, but you are utterly without your reproductive organs, just smooth, flat flesh. What is the most realistic statement of how you would deal with this?

I would consider suicide. That would be absolutely horrible.

That would be terrible.

I am not sure how I would feel. I could cope, given enough time.

It would not bother me. I sometimes think it would be an improvement.

I often wish something like that would happen. I seriously do.

Surely any 'normal' male would find this terribly distressing, and possibly be ready to risk life than so easily give up a gender identity like that? (Answers 1 or 2)

>>What makes us so different?<<

Paolo wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:31 am Personally, I don't have a problem with regular, respected users posting a small image file this way now and then.

How do we know if we're regular and respected?

thefraj (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:30 am Hehe, okay, going back to the thread; there's a question from both the Anne Moir and COGIATI test which stuck in my mind because it touches on this 'inability to fully identify with being male'. Nothing more, (no mention of changing genders!)

Surely any 'normal' male would find this terribly distressing, and possibly be ready to risk life than so easily give up a gender identity like that? (Answers 1 or 2)

>>What makes us so different?<<

Would all normal males feel that way? I'd be surprised if a normal male answered number 5, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot answer number 3. In our society it is the penis that is associated with manhood, and with it you are a man while without you are not. I personally think there is a lot more to gender than genitalia.

I understand what you're saying Plix and I would certainly consider you a regular and respected member (but I'm not a moderator!)

To put it another way, suppose it asked the same question of your arm?

And you answered "I'm not sure how I would feel". (3)

Most people would be fairly certain how they felt about losing an arm : the same way 'normal males' would feel about losing their genitals.

It's probably worth asking a few ''normal males' that exact question, I think it would be interesting to see the results

I suppose thats the idea I'm exploring. Why do we feel differently about that part? Losing any limb will change your body, and who you are. But for some reason, we don't mind the idea of losing something about us that makes us male.

What 'underlying psychology' makes us more readily accept the loss of manhood?

for me the posession of equipment caused major problems I had no self esteem and I pretty much hated myself. I may be an odd duck but when I answered the cogati question mentioned above I answered #5 because its true.

philip1 (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:51 am I may be an odd duck but when I answered the cogati question mentioned above I answered #5 because its true.

Not at all Phil ... if truth be known I answered 4 (or it may have been 3, can't remember! one or the other!)

That's why I thought it was an awesome question ... it doesn't have any obvious element of wishing to change genders, but is a nice slidy-scale to how much the questionee(?) doesn't identify with being male. (may tie in with what you were saying about self-image and equipment?)

I suppose thats the question I'm wrestling with at the moment ... why?

thefraj (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:25 am I'm starting to wonder if there really, really is another gender - neither male nor female. But something different.

It's ironic how our mind tends to try to compartmentalize -- even the idea of a third gender is limiting. I like the image of the spectrum because that's what it is. I even think it is more complicated when you add bisexuality and such, plus as I've mentioned in other threads I believe that in addition to varying level of attraction we also feel various levels of repulsion. For example, I know gay guys who would find the idea of sex with women totally repulsive while others just would prefer not to.

Keep thinking spectrum rather than "third sex" and then we'll be on the right track toward accepting the true complexity of being human.

I've always worried about life being a "zero sum solution".I think it's the combination of the grading system at school (especially "grading on the curve") and the scoring systems of athletic games which pound into us the idea that every good thing for someone implies a bad thing for someone else. Hierarchical organizations also reinforce this idea---for everyone who gets a raise or a bonus or a promotion there are others who don't, and often at least some of those others seem to us equally or more deserving.

.

Uh... about the COGIATI test. It's um... well, some of the questions aren't exactly... let me put it this way:

thefraj (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:30 am Your penis and testicles are destroyed, perhaps due to an accident or injury, but they are gone forever. You are otherwise the same as now, but you are utterly without your reproductive organs, just smooth, flat flesh. What is the most realistic statement of how you would deal with this?

I would consider suicide. That would be absolutely horrible.

That would be terrible.

I am not sure how I would feel. I could cope, given enough time.

It would not bother me. I sometimes think it would be an improvement.

I often wish something like that would happen. I seriously do.

Most women would veer away from options 4 and 5, if they seriously considered what they'd do with a cock and balls. Really, I think the COGIATI test is more to test whether you're extremist and devoted to the notion of genital manipulation than whether you're male or female in the way you think.

...then again, I'd pick option 5...