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By Associated Press

(local remote copy in the event original no longer available)

Mon Jul 3, 11:29 AM UPDATED 2 HOURS 33 MINUTES AGO

SANTA ANA, Calif. - A convicted child molester who got surgically castrated to curb his urges wants to be released from custody. Kevin Reilly won a court order and paid to have his testicles removed in 2003.

"He felt that this was the only way to stop his cravings and immoral conduct," said his attorney, Orange County Deputy Public Defender Dinah Granafei.

Reilly says he has completed a sex-offender treatment program, undergone castration and is no longer a threat to children. He wants to be freed from Atascadero Mental Hospital, where he has been locked up since 2000 when the Orange County District Attorney's Office filed a petition labeling him a Sexually Violent Predator.

District Attorney Tony Rackauckas says Reilly remains a sexual predator who should remain incarcerated.

"Just because they have been castrated doesn't change what's going on in their minds," he said.

Orange County Superior Court Judge John Conley is presiding over a Sexually Violent Predator hearing and will decide if there is sufficient evidence to order a jury trial later this year.

Reilly has been sentenced to 14 years in prison since 1983 in three separate child molestation cases.

He has been in prison or hospitals since 1998.

Barrie Hafler, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Mental Health at Atascadero, said she knows of fewer than 20 convicted child molesters and rapists who have undergone castration in the last decade.

___

Information from: The Orange County Register, http://www.ocregister.com (http://www.ocregister.com/)

They cut the wrong end.

A-1

The ethics involved in cases such as this intrigues me. If the prisoner gets castrated in order to be set free isn't he doing it for all the wrong reasons? And, if his motive is only to be set free does that mean that he is still as great a danger to others as he was before the castration was performed? Is there any reason to think that his "problem" has actually been solved? The statements of the district attorney are not to be relied upon. He is an advocate for the law as it exists, not for any form of justice, however it may be defined. He may even be standing for election, making his actions ones of self-interest only. Note the silence of the medical profession. Are they unsure of answers? Are they unwilling to offend the public mood? Are they ashamed that one of their own has participated in a "judicial castration"? Are there any ethical boundries at all? --FLO--

I am appaled by the large number of people that are being locked up for sondry reasons.I think most people in ouir Jails today could be FREED with some simple retraining or education whatever - something better thatn - spending our Tax Dollars and storing Lots of people for the "wrong reasons" - that is my feeling and has been some time.

Our Justice system needs and up date and all the "phony" laws relating to this topic of Sex and Drugs etc could be taken out of the lawbooks and be done with. The insidences of Child - molestation as I see it is often some kind of fiction made up by the child of some adult. The same thing goes for Rape and the numerous fantacies associated with that topic. I can only hope that this man will go free and that all these so called Attorneys be going to do some other job like working for McDonalds or some such job where they can do less harm to our society at large. My personal experience is small but gives me the impedus not to favor these things any more. http://n3rf.tripod.com Regards to all "thinkers" of improvements that we must get soon. n3rf

For an academic study of the results of castration of sex offenders, see the abstract to Castration in Germany (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8762). It reports on a study of 104 men who were voluntarily castrated after conviction for sexual offenses (70% as pedophiles). After release, only 3% were later convicted of a subsequent sexual offense, compared to 46% of the non-castrated control group to whom they were compared.

Can castration work to control sexual urges among pedophiles. According to this research paper it can. At least one of the three who was convicted of a subsequent offense was on full replacement testosterone at his wife's request and, therefore, was not effectively castrated. This does point out a potential problem when testosterone is as readily available as it is.

If the man committed the crimes and was sentenced I feel he needs to do his time. Yes I think he will be less likely to repeat the offense after castration when he is released. I also know that for the children this will affect them a lot longer than 14 years.

JesusA wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:12 am For an academic study of the results of castration of sex offenders, see the abstract to Castration in Germany (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8762). It reports on a study of 104 men who were voluntarily castrated after conviction for sexual offenses (70% as pedophiles). After release, only 3% were later convicted of a subsequent sexual offense, compared to 46% of the non-castrated control group to whom they were compared.

Can castration work to control sexual urges among pedophiles. According to this research paper it can. At least one of the three who was convicted of a subsequent offense was on full replacement testosterone at his wife's request and, therefore, was not effectively castrated. This does point out a potential problem when testosterone is as readily available as it is.

Regardless, it is not the sexual drive OR testosterone that is at the root of the problem. Vehicular homocide by an out of control drunk is prevented by taking the car away, or by taking the booze away, or by taking BOTH away. However, at the root of the problem lies personal responsibility. People need to be held R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-L-E for what they do and they need to know that they WILL be held responsible for their actions.

The re-conviction rate of 46% PROVES that 54% of the perpetrators CAN control themselves without being castrated. In addition, what if they are WRONGLY convicted in the first place? Also, castration as a guarantee of stopping the criminal is little consolation if you are one of the victims of the 3% of offenders who were previously convicted and released.

Sure, castration may stop the child molester, but it will not stop the first time molester. Neither will it stop a first-time rapist, a sexual murderer or any other sex-related crime. We as a society CAN and MUST do better than this band-aid approach and identify what causes this deviant behavior.

N3RF, are you saying that the majority of child molestation cases are fantasies and are not occurring? Please clarify this for me. Thanks.

A-1

Dear A-1 and EA. My feelings on the topic that I "plunged" into was only that - my feelings. Our legal system takes care of these things when other means of handling BAD BEHAVIOUR etc should be used. Our legal system is probably overloaded. The statistics of social misbehaviour is not something I can give You since I know You are the expert. Maybe something that I said did make some sense. If our legal system can save us from misbehaviour of these kinds - child and adult and sex etc, I am not all that sure. Really I don't think so. I hope in some of the thoughts I get to promulgate are not totally wrong. Happy Fourth of July 2006 to all EA. Keep pondering.Johan N3RF

Testosterone can do some mean things to a person's mind. If castration reduces such things, then it seems good.

Prison should be for rehabilitation as well as for keeping dangerous people away from society, although some would like to send people to prison as part of a sadistic personal hate for said people.

If castration has helped him rehabilitate, then, that is good thing, yes?.

If he has other psychological problems, they should be dealt with as well. There are root causes of the act of molestation, and primarily, it seems to stem from the sex drive. Castration rather goes to the root of the problem. Refusing to castrate molestors who opt for this therapy seems off-target.

Hugs,

Kelly

class of Spector, 2001

There is no crime worse then that of the pedophile who preys on children for sexual gratification. It is most revolting and disgusting to me. However, without being thought of as "soft on crime," I do applaud those who seek to alleviate themselves of their main sex hormone, which we know drives us to engage in all types of sexual activities that many find perverted. Most all of us eunuchs or want-to-be's were/have been prone to out of control behavior, myself included. Now, with my low dose testosterone regimen, I'm in control. Before castration, I was out of control, most of us were, only we sexually abused ourselves, which, if you're going to abuse someone, abusing yourself is more socially acceptable. Society doesn't consider you a criminal, more of a weirdo. When we are found out we get placed in a pysch ward instead of prison. Of course if you've abused a child sexually, and the evidence is sound, you deserve prison and you should be totally emasculated in my opinion. But, depending on the severity, perhaps we should give some the opportunity to prove themselves. Let's allow them to start out life again on the outside with certain limits. Like a half-way house for castrated sexual offenders. Hash

I wonder what the molester's choice would have been if he knew he would still serve his full sentence if castrated. Did he ask for castration with the thoughts of an early release or genuinely to stop his behavior?

Kelly you are very smart. I wish I had the power to appoint you head of Criminal Rehab.

I am very interested in this subject as I have talked with ex criminals and law enforcement about this subject (crime in general). I've had the opportunity talk in public about this and one of the things I've learned is people do not have a broad view of the problem (a polite way of saying they are ignorant).

I like to tell people who are vindictive and want punishment. WHAT IF IT WAS YOUR LOVED ONE? WHAT IF IT WERE YOU???? Do we as a society want to punish people or HELP them???? What if you in a moment of rage/stupidity you did a bad no no. How would you want to be treated???? Go chew on that one.

It is estimated that 2/3 of people in jail are mentally ill and/ or on drugs (alcohol included). Gangs are also a big problem and a problem that could be solved. Let's get some help for these people not punishment.

Do you know anyone who got up one morning and said gee I think I want to be a drug addict or be mentally ill and go to jail???

In spite of all I just said I do believe there are some people who should never be out on the street.

Love Lindaleah

Great bunch of responses, everyone.

I have several points of clarification that I will ask for when time permits. N3RF, don't take what I said too harshly, I didn't mean it to embarrass you, all I wanted is to see what your feelings on the subject were.

What I hoped that you would bring us was the McMartin molestations (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_mcmar.htm) that were an example of municipal social services systems gone mad. Note that the criticism leveled against social services on the site that I posted is from the perspective of a Christian organization. Sometimes, such church systems can also hide perpetrators, but this site I feel is not one of them.

Clearly, the outrage has been over-played in the press to the point of creating paranoid delusions in well-meaning individuals. However, this is NOT to minimize the damage done by pediophiles to children. We have all seen systems to terrorize individuals, guilty or no, and as has been so eloquently pointed out, the key to the success of rehabilitation depend upon effective behavior modification, not on punishment.

Perhaps a system that allows an individual to be placed where they will have no solitary contact with children without an admission of guilt would be the best in these matters, however, legally, such a system violates all sorts of constitutional rights. SO, do not expect to see in society a system that would work the best to prevent these occurrances.

Comments?

A-1

No You didn't embarras me, A-1, on the contrary. I appreciate Your bright views and the best part is that You know how to give LINKS to good stuff.. I still havn't learned that part ..Hi When we talk about Sex or Sex Crime in Public I find we or should I say they do not become specific enough by use only "generalizations" that hide the real meaning or the real purpose or the real factual event. When Clintor said he didn't have SEX he was right since what expired was only a sexual game that the adults involved knew only as that. The Semantics of if all becomes so confused and our system allows it to be that fuddled up rather that say, I petted the kid on the head and said I like him or something perfectly normal expression of affection. But when the System starts out with it all it becomes a "implied horrid" act that is never spelled out in sufficient detail to clear the person or the matter. This is what is wrong with that in my view.

If Clinton plays around with his friend and secretary in an adult "non-sex" matter it is their right and does not need to be convoluted by the rest of our system people etc.

So maybe Preachers cannot express friendly relations with children when they are not going over the edge. We will never know unless we specify the situation in sufficient detail to know if it in fact is "over the edge". You A-1 can probably say it better than I what I am driving at. Semantics is all. We have more important matters to procecute is all I am saying. Regards Johan N3RF

I once thought as RF did. That being that most of these "stories" were made up by kids or people with an agenda. Then we looked into adopting since I'm unable (blown out testes) and the county had a very large supply of children whose parents were being sexual with. These are NOT made up. These kids are scarred for life by the SOBs that molest them. If you think this is all made up I urge you to get in touch with your county adoption of foster care unit and tell them your willing to take in sexualy abused kids. Not many people are btw! BTW I remember asking if these sorts of things were all "made up" at church and had a couple of people take me aside and clue me into the sad reality of this veil of tears we live on.

No, I don't think you will enjoy taking them (Abused kids) to the shrinks weekly and or watching them pee their pants from fear because someone looks like "Daddy or Mommy" and they are worried about getting raped again.

If your worried about tax money to put these people away I understand being a cheapskate myself. When I start thinking that way I try to imagine all these scum bags loose hurting more people and in particular little kids. And I'm talking about 7 and 8 year olds.

This thread about castration of sex criminals is interesting. I know personaly what low hormones feel like and how interest in sex can be driven to zero. Question: Is that "punishment" enough for driving your 8 year old to the boyfriends for a gang rape? If castration is reabilitation how do you test it for success? And I think I can say that with HRT lack of working testicles is no problem with getting a full sex drive back again. Can you avoid the person finding some form of Testosterone to "abuse" so he can reoffend?

More important how many chances do you get to do this again? One of the people involved in this had been convicted three times (and with prepuberty kids) and will be let out relativly soon. What would any of YOU say to the kid and the parents of the next victim?

Frankly I feel very strongly that death is too good for some of these scum. And believe it or not I'm not a bit pro death penalty zealot. I think that the government has too much power already.

Ok, I'm on the soap box - sorry...

Originally Posted by Jesus

JesusA wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:12 am For an academic study of the results of castration of sex offenders, see the abstract to Castration in Germany. It reports on a study of 104 men who were voluntarily castrated after conviction for sexual offenses (70% as pedophiles). After release, only 3% were later convicted of a subsequent sexual offense, compared to 46% of the non-castrated control group to whom they were compared.

If the above is true I have no problem with Sex offenders volunteering for castration it will certainly help lower sex crimes

MRT don't apologize for getting on your soap box. It's the one weapon this country has in its arsenal that still works. Communicating with our fellow humans may be the only way the world can be saved.

Thanks MRT and A-1. I needed that. But in my view at this moment at least none of these things belong in the Court or Legal system but should somehow be done "privately" or something. The legal system only seems to make it "worse" than it really is. How worse than it is - how do You explain it ?? You NEVER get the real story and no-body wants to know the real story. Even the "damages" are sort of "blown-out-of-Proportion" every time. The people in the White House works under a lot of stress, so what Clinton did with his friends was only an adult game to release stress. I really doubt that Church People who loves young and old would have any intent to HARM anyone. So there goes my - soapbox - of this morning. Stay healthy and be nice to each and everyone .. N3RF

A few years ago, as I was beginning to develop my "castration fascination", or acknowledge it as an outlet for my rage at the creep that tried to rape me as a young teen, I began to wonder how it might be IF castrated offenders were released into the general population.

One of my frequent little daydreams involves castrated creeps being FORCED to leave the relative anonymity of prison so that they might face the world...a world that knows they are ball-less, and WHY!

I realize that, in a society such as ours, my "dream" will not be realized. Still, I feel that those castrated, voluntarily or not, when released, should be permanently marked in some manner that will make their condition known to all that encounter them.

I'm aware that this little rant of mine is not of the lofty and scientific caliber of this thread, but I feel compelled to add it thereto.

Imagine, if you will, being a castrated sex offender, released into the world, and bearing some visible mark, (tattoo?) that makes it impossible for you to masquerade as an intact and non-criminal member of the populace.

Would that factor be sufficient to cause "wanna-be" eunuchs among the prison population to cease their quest for castration? I suspect so, at least in appreciable measure.

Well, that's my Dos centavos worth. I'd elaborate on my wish that such "corrective/punitive" measures be announced and well-publicized, to include the presence of witnesses, but everytime I mention or think of it, I get...ummmm...distracted, LOL!

Cuddles and huggies, and love to all,

Yolanda The Deranged AKA Yoli

(A nice lady in San Antonio)

Dear Yoli,

This sounds a bit like The Scarlet Letter (http://www.online-literature.com/hawtho ... letletter/).

What you propose has been done in other circumstances. It is generally not rehabilitation, but punishment. Your story indicates to me that you are justified in your expectation of punishment for those who abused you. However, uniform punishment for all is not only impossible, it is also undesirable. Humanity in all of it's fallibility is not ready to judge itself perfectly.

We expect to be able to make the world better for those who follow us, so that they will not have to suffer in life as we have. This balances with the opinion that others should have to suffer in life AS we have because it is part of the human condition and it is just. The former helps eradicate abuse, and the latter perpetuates abuse. The imperfect system that we have struggles to adjust itself to maintain balance with these two concepts.

PLEASE keep up your input to the forum. Your perspective is needed. IT helps maintain a balance.

THANKS!

A-1

Everyone knows my feelings on pedophiles and people that commit sex crimes. Also, my method ensures there are no repeat offenders (a .38 in the back of the head).

Just to stoke the fires here, I'll post the last paragraph from The science and ethics of castration: Lessons from the Morse case by J. Michael Bailey and Aaron S. Greenberg. The entire article is available in the Northwestern Law Review, vol. 92, pp. 1225-1245.

Finally, it will be important for states to closely monitor the outcomes of castrated sex offenders who are released into the community. We expect that there will be very few failures, but failures there will be. This is no different than for other categories of criminals (except that castrated sex offenders are probably much less dangerous). As we have argued, the castration option should not require that it always works. Recognizing this ahead of time may diminish the chance that highly publicized failures will irrationally distort a policy that works well, on average. Of course, it is important to evaluate whether releasing castrated sex offenders works sufficiently well to justify the practice. Available evidence suggests that it probably does, and better evidence will not exist until it is tried on a more extensive basis.

J. Michael Bailey is one of the acknowledged experts in the field of sex research. I do not know Aaron Greenberg, but his degree is in law.

I am all for voluntary castrations. I would not be upset if the state would pay for them. If they are voluntary an innocent man wrongly accused would of course not agree to it. Of course a molester who is castrated is taking a preventative step to reduce future molestations. His past acts still deserve the current sentence he received. I think it is great that he wants to stop but that should not absolve past acts. All castrated sex offenders should still register so the states can keep track and record recidivism rates. We will then know how succesful the treatment is. I am against his being marked so he would not be able to find work or employment. I also believe that once time is served the punishment is over and so the torment he would receive being marked would be cruel and unusual.

As far as rehabilitation is concerned some learn their lesson before the length of their sentence is over and some never learn. Pedophiles have the lowest rates of success in not reoffending unless they are chemically or surgically castrated. When they register and periodicaly I think their T levels should be checked to ensure they are not taking repalcement therapy and able and willing to offend again.

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:24 pm Thanks MRT and A-1. I needed that. But in my view at this moment at least none of these things belong in the Court or Legal system but should somehow be done "privately" or something. The legal system only seems to make it "worse" than it really is. How worse than it is - how do You explain it ?? You NEVER get the real story and no-body wants to know the real story. Even the "damages" are sort of "blown-out-of-Proportion" every time. The people in the White House works under a lot of stress, so what Clinton did with his friends was only an adult game to release stress. I really doubt that Church People who loves young and old would have any intent to HARM anyone. So there goes my - soapbox - of this morning. Stay healthy and be nice to each and everyone .. N3RF

Look I don't want to just come out looking angry with these posts but everyone please be clear this hits a nerve for me and I have to admit that I'm not 100% rational about this topic.

If the "real" story was published we would have towns people with torches storming the jails and lynching people. No, obviously I'm against that for obvious reasons. But the truth would sicken a cockroach. Mothers helping their "boyfriends" rape a kid under 10 years old. Oh I can't even go on. It gets worse and worse and makes me sick just thinking about it. If you don't "believe" it I do understand. The human brain blows a fuse at some point when its confronted with the real horror out there. We get a pretty sanitary view of everything and this is "nice" but false. And its not just the big cities. Little rural towns have these pieces of human garbage just as much as the big towns. Its criminal in the real sense of the word that this happens but what stinks is how often it happens over and over again.

I remember reading about a neighborhood watch in Texas that was formed to protect the ladies in the area from a serial rapist. He was cutting open window screen with a knife, letting himself in and raping women. The watch group found a screen cut open collected the local men and they grabbed him when he tried leaving the way he came in. He got 1 year in jail. His first offense! They talked to the men that caught him and one said "If we knowed they were gonna let him loose we wouldn't given him to em. At least ways not in one piece."

Ok, I think I'm done talking about this. Too close to home.

I must reply to N3rf

You say "

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:24 pm Even the "damages" are sort of "blown-out-of-Proportion"

"

You also say "

n3rf (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:24 pm I really doubt that Church People who loves young and old would have any intent to HARM anyone

"

To the first quote I say talk to my wife (if she doesn't hurt you before you get finished) She was abused by her father as a child and has never recovered.

To the second quote check with the kids that were molested by priests and see if what they would tell you. And I think we've only seen the tip of the ice berg.

Also check with all the kids growing up in drug addicted homes. Talk about hell they could tell you what hell is.

If we're talking about informed consenting adults? That's their business. But when it comes to kids you'd better be looking over you shoulder because I think there is some one looking to put you away!!!! And if you wind up in prison? Child molesters don't fair well at all.

I suggest you might want to seek a counselor that could help you put a light on your opinions.

I am glad that we are all "so awake" this morning. It is good to ponder. Keep pondering. R

My current "thinking" is - "our legal system -k i l l e d-him" the Enron Mr chief. I am sorry that this company was made the tarket etc etc. He didn't make it. All our best companies do sometime weird things. I never felt right about this E N R O N campaign. That is my feeling and to prove it I bought when it happened $1,000 dollar ENRON stock on Ameritrade. Well I was new there, so there was lots to learn. Yes it went down and down and down. I think a got a few bucks back,just before that stock evaporized totally. But my feeling was there still, and I learned a lot about Ameritrade, to buy and to sell - when the time was "right".

Yes there are L O T S of topics to P O N D E R dear EA thinkers and writers etc..N3RF