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Today I filled an Rx for T patches. The total for 30 Testoderm TTS patches was $143. This was $63 cheaper than the same number of Androderm patches, which seems to be the more popular of the patch replacement brands. I don't pick it up until Monday. I could have had Androderm today, but $63 was a worth a few days wait.

It's been a long time. I'm scared, I'll admit. Potential MPB, bad skin, thick body hair, facial hair, severe acne (this one according to my doctor), erections, libido, and all that fun stuff. And that's only the physical.

I said I'd give it a try. We shall see how long it lasts.

You might do better with "compounded testosterone cream," and it's cheaper. I get my "compounded testosterone" from an apothecary (pharmacy) in Hershey PA, and it costs about $70.00 bucks for a month and a half supply. However, since it's in cream form, you can use as much or as little of it as you need. You'll have to work with it, trying different amounts, but when you find the amount that works for you a month's supply could be spread out to two months. I like "compounded testosterone" for this reason. The adrogel/androderm is expensive unless your insurance covers it. My insurance covers most of it, but I still have to pay $45.00 per month supply. If you're paying over a hundred bucks, try the compounded. You will need a prescription for it, but there are plenty of pharmacies/apothecaries that still compound it. Hash

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:11 pm I'm scared, I'll admit. Potential MPB, bad skin, thick body hair, facial hair, severe acne (this one according to my doctor), erections, libido, and all that fun stuff. And that's only the physical.

I said I'd give it a try. We shall see how long it lasts.

Hi Plix,

Sounds like all of T's effects are side effects to you. What effects are beneficial? Trying to ward off osteoporosis?

Speaking for myself, the cure (T) is worse than the illness.

* * *

Hash,

Good advice about compounded T. If I had known about it back in May, I may have taken some in order to make the marriage work. Wanted a form which could be applied sparingly, only as needed. Glad I was ignorant about it at the time because I didn't really want T in my system again. The cost of gel and patches was prohibitive, so that was a safe excuse to not use T.

Terri

I get testosterone injections at two week intervals. The cost (to my insurance carrier) is $75 for the T and $25 for the medical office. The injections have acomplished what they were prescribed for,mostly better strength and stamina. I'm not too fond of the "side effects" either! Don't even bring up the subject of body hair! Also, in my case, I cycle very unpleasantly between too much right after the shot and too little right before the shot. I come down as if I stepped off a tall ladder. I like the idea of self-applied cream so as to co-ordinate dosage with needs. --FLO--

If I decide to stay on it on a regular basis, then the cost of the patches could become a problem. I have looked into injections and might consider those, but am worried about the swings, as I hear they are worse than E injections, which for me weren't really noticeable.

I don't really know if I would consider them side effects. In my eyes they are simply what was meant to be for the male portion of the population. I don't think any guy wants to go bald, but few would be willing to live without T in order to prevent it.

Flo

I Inject 0.5 ML of Testosterone Cypionate 200mg/ml twice a week by myself. The compounded T costs me about $75 for a months worth.

I have the srcipt filled by San Diego Compounding Pharmacy and they ship it to me via USPS.

I Got used to the self injection and I feel much better now than when I was using the gels and creams. The twice a week injections keep me pretty level and allow me to ease off every now and then.

SDCP's number is 858-277-8884. They also compound gels.

Steve

BroBear

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:11 pm Today I filled an Rx for T patches. The total for 30 Testoderm TTS patches was $143. This was $63 cheaper than the same number of Androderm patches, which seems to be the more popular of the patch replacement brands. I don't pick it up until Monday. I could have had Androderm today, but $63 was a worth a few days wait.

It's been a long time. I'm scared, I'll admit. Potential MPB, bad skin, thick body hair, facial hair, severe acne (this one according to my doctor), erections, libido, and all that fun stuff. And that's only the physical.

I said I'd give it a try. We shall see how long it lasts.

Check with your insurance. It should cover most of the costs. Be SURE you ask if they have a 90 days supply for 60 deal if you use Mail order. This saves me a lot of money. Injections are cheaper but you may want to use them weekly to avoid the peaks and valleys of HRT. Or you may find that bi weekly works fine for you. Are you taking DHEA by any chance? That might level things out a tad. But DON'T fool with that unless your Doctor says it ok and agrees to test you regularly for it.

Look, I understand first hand how having your body suddenly react "differently" is weird. You might think as I did "What am I turning into?" And the changes will be pretty amazing. What I want to say (Like the guy in the pool) the waters fine jump in! And no, its not ice cold. Give it a chance. Try to be open to the experience. Being fired by testosterone is not bad! I have a un-medical joe six pack opinion that the guys with too much give it a bad name. And the guys with too little (like us) feel lousy.

When I went on HRT My first experience (On maybe day 4) was waking up with tons of energy. I wanted to get up (Not go back to bed for once) and do stuff. I was able to start and finish projects. My mental axiety issues we just gone! And these were getting to be really bad. I was just about ready for mental health meds. I used to love to read. When I got on HRT I was able to read a book again without getting bored 1/4 through it. My mood improved. My family was able to "stand me" much easier! I never got acne or bad skin. Not sure what MPB is. I did get some added hair growth but heck I just shave it all off! My mental FOG went away after many weeks to maybe months? And that was fantastic. I think its almost a on the knees and thank God type of moment. Sex, drive? Yes. Your going to have to deal with that but it can also be a good thing. Erections and such I still don't deal with but I've got ED issues from another medical problem. Thats a "problem" I wouldn't mind!

Anyway, talk with your doctor to be sure your getting a healthy amount and give it a chance. It "can" be a great thing.

- James (aka MrT *as in Testosterone)

Personally, I can feel a wide fluctuation in testosterone when taking it (cypionate) every week even. And I have heard about some ignorant doctors who tried giving cypionate injections every four weeks. The only testosterone I have used that can be given that far apart is Sostenon and thats not legally available in the states as it has never been FDA approved yet. In the UK they have Testosterone Undecanoate which is VERY long acting, as in shots taken every month provide a consistent level, probably equal to cypionate done every week, in terms of consistency. Also, in the UK, they have testosterone pellets that are implanted under the skin which can be given as seldom as once per year and there is even some (Though I hear never been used) that last even two years. I wish America would catch up with some of these other countries sometimes.

Plix,

I wish you the best on the patch, but if its not right there are other options.

River

It turns out my wait was for nothing. I went to the pharmacy today and they told me Testoderm TTS is no longer made. My only choice was Androderm, which would now cost $269 because apparently it was not covered under a cash discount like they thought.

So I asked for my Rx to be returned and left. I wanted to go over to my school pharmacy and get it filled there, but a certain someone insisted they closed at 4 when it was actually 4:45. I thought I'd have to wait yet again for another few days, but that certain someone came up with another pharmacy we could check.

But that wasn't the end of the fun. We called this pharmacy and found out they had it in stock for only $209. I was excited and thought I might finally have it. But when we got there we found out the computers were down and they didn't know when they would be back up.

I was upset by this point because it seemed like we were running into one obstacle after another. I was wondering whether it was meant to be at all. But they called a different location and found they had them in stock along with working computers. So we went there and were able to get Androderm for $209. Very expensive, but Androderm appears to be the only patch option now for those of us who are not intact.

So I have them now and will put the first one on at 10:00 tonight as is recommended. I have to admit that as scared as I am, I am excited too

By the way, MPB is Male Pattern Baldness.

My first day on the patch, and no big changes. I am thinking there may be a slight push in libido, but that could be placebo, and erectile function is somewhat better (could be fueled by the placebo libido) but still lacking.

I can narrow the reasons I believe it has not worked well so far down to the following:

1. Residual Estrogen

I took a shot of E 9 days ago. It should be on the decline at this point, but there could still be enough to cause problems.

2. Patch Issues

I placed the patch on my lower back, which according to the shaded diagram may have been too low. It did not work well in that position during sleep, and by morning it was wrinkled and had begun to peel at parts of the edges. It also slipped downward some.

I am thinking reason 1 may play more of a role than I realize, so I will give it more time before deciding it is not working.

I also am not sure how fast and suddenly the changes are supposed to occur. Should one expect to regain full libido and function overnight or does it build over time?

I will try again tonight and this time place the patch on my thigh with medical tape to help hold it in place.

plix (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:30 pm My first day on the patch, and no big changes. I am thinking there may be a slight push in libido, but that could be placebo, and erectile function is somewhat better (could be fueled by the placebo libido) but still lacking.

I can narrow the reasons I believe it has not worked well so far down to the following:

1. Residual Estrogen

I took a shot of E 9 days ago. It should be on the decline at this point, but there could still be enough to cause problems.

2. Patch Issues

I placed the patch on my lower back, which according to the shaded diagram may have been too low. It did not work well in that position during sleep, and by morning it was wrinkled and had begun to peel at parts of the edges. It also slipped downward some.

I am thinking reason 1 may play more of a role than I realize, so I will give it more time before deciding it is not working.

I also am not sure how fast and suddenly the changes are supposed to occur. Should one expect to regain full libido and function overnight or does it build over time?

I will try again tonight and this time place the patch on my thigh with medical tape to help hold it in place.

You need to be a bit more patient. It usually takes 3 days or there abouts to feel and see the affects of the patch. Take it easy, relax, rest the mind and good things will happen to you.

Take care and say hi to K_SD for me.

Generally takes several days to load the T. On gel, usually takes me 10-14 days to fully load. Patches are worse - very slow, ineffective. Not a good method. Recommend either gel or shots as most effective. Gel is expensive but very stable and consistent. On shots, a weekly shot of 1cc is usually most effective on the significantly less expensive end. Quick shot in thigh works well. Otherwise, try none of the above, E or T, and go from there. I dont do either now - for several months, and doing OK

Yoli here, all brighttailed and bushyeyed!

(Had to drive Ash[leigh] to the airport EARLY!)

Plixie,

A tip I picked up from Barry ('cept I was gonna apply a seasick patch.)

Wash the spot where you intend to place the patch with soap and water, rinsing thoroughly. Do not use "moisturizing" soaps, such as Caress(TM), since they leave a residue of oils. Ivory(TM) would be a good choice, followed by thorough drying with a clean towel (no fabric softener, same problem as with moisturizing soaps) and a quick swab with rubbing alcohol. Allow that to dry too.

The patch will adhere better to clean and dry skin.

Luv to all...ya'll.

Yolanda T. Crazy

Sleepless in San Antonio

Day 2 on the patch. Erectile function, while still nothing like pre-surgery ability, is stronger than it has been in a long time. But I know how powerful placebo can be, so I am not getting my hopes up.

Last night the patch stayed in place much better. I will continue using the tape as it is helping a great deal.

The E patches seemed to be effective in my case. I got my first breast development on Estraderm 25. Are the T patches not as effective as the E?

The only information that I have is from the endocrinologist my doctor consulted. He thinks that the patches are mostly ineffective in delivering testosterone and, taking the greater cost into consideration, are the least desirable form of application other than ingestion. His statement may not apply to you the same way it does to me, he also said that the more fat on a person the less effective is any dermal application of testosterone. --FLO--

Day 3.

I awoke this morning with an erection. First morning one in a long time.

I was able to maintain a very stiff erection in an intimate context for quite some time. Close to pre surgery stiffness.

Libido is still lacking, and I have not seen a significant surge in energy. But I didn't notice a significant decline in energy after the surgery, so perhaps I am not sensitive to that effect.

The patch came off today even with the tape.

Regardless of how well the patches end up working, I think I will switch to another method. The patches have issues with staying on and are much bigger and bulkier than I expected. I was thinking they were more like the Estraderm patches, which are much easier to deal with.

Testman (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:36 am Personally, I can feel a wide fluctuation in testosterone when taking it (cypionate) every week even. And I have heard about some ignorant doctors who tried giving cypionate injections every four weeks. The only testosterone I have used that can be given that far apart is Sostenon and thats not legally available in the states as it has never been FDA approved yet. In the UK they have Testosterone Undecanoate which is VERY long acting, as in shots taken every month provide a consistent level, probably equal to cypionate done every week, in terms of consistency. Also, in the UK, they have testosterone pellets that are implanted under the skin which can be given as seldom as once per year and there is even some (Though I hear never been used) that last even two years. I wish America would catch up with some of these other countries sometimes.

Yes, my Doctor suggested Androgel (Which I use - its great!) or monthly injections. I researched this and gave her some of what I saw. She said "thank you" and changed how she does the injections! The 6 month shots used in Europe are not perfect. I have some friends who have tried them and begged to be put on anything else. I think its a good idea but it needs to have some bugs squashed. I'm trying to remember what it was like to not slather on Androgel every morning. I like it because the effects are very even. I don't have roller coaster hormone rides.

plix (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:30 pm My first day on the patch, and no big changes. I am thinking there may be a slight push in libido, but that could be placebo, and erectile function is somewhat better (could be fueled by the placebo libido) but still lacking.

I can narrow the reasons I believe it has not worked well so far down to the following:

1. Residual Estrogen

I took a shot of E 9 days ago. It should be on the decline at this point, but there could still be enough to cause problems.

2. Patch Issues

I placed the patch on my lower back, which according to the shaded diagram may have been too low. It did not work well in that position during sleep, and by morning it was wrinkled and had begun to peel at parts of the edges. It also slipped downward some.

I am thinking reason 1 may play more of a role than I realize, so I will give it more time before deciding it is not working.

I also am not sure how fast and suddenly the changes are supposed to occur. Should one expect to regain full libido and function overnight or does it build over time?

I will try again tonight and this time place the patch on my thigh with medical tape to help hold it in place.

For me (And this may not be the norm) Energy and mood improved in 3 or 4 days. For me it was WOW! I had stopped expecting anything and I was so charged up. I also lost my Anxiety problem which has never returned. Sex drive took many weeks to months to come back but when it did it was another WOW! Mental fog took long - maybe about the same length as drive. I wish you the best! If it works for you like it does for me? I feel 1000x better then when my hormones were all tanking.

mrt. How much of Androgel are you using and do you know your present T-level? H.

I was on 10 gm daily but my Doctor cut me back one pump so its an odd number. I get tested every 6 months and the numbers are good. I was in the 700s the last time I was tested but this was not long after I applied it. Maybe 4 hours. My previous numbers were abnormaly low but the testing was being done over 24 hours after the application (almost 30) due to my insane early work hours and the time the lab was opened.

BTW the Doctors felt this time "shouldn't" make a difference. It clearly does. Whoever is selling the idea that Androgel doesn't peak in fairly short order (24 hours) has not seen any of my labs. That said I think its the greatest stuff. My life went from suck-o-ramma to WOW!!

If you go on HRT you have to have PSAs and the DRE (Dreaded Rectal Exam) on a regular basis. So find a Doctor you can joke around with. Its embaressing but nessesary.

I know I sure like the androgel. And there's another brand of it coming out soon that is said to lower the price as the two companies compete with each other.

But the difference I have experienced compared to the other board members was in my case, I had a very rapid response to it. As in the first few hours I was a teen again. But this is probably due to the fact that I already had elevated androgen levels due to my bodybuilding experiences and the others here are starting from a very low level and so the effects need to sort of build up in the body.

Woe, thats way below normal, Huevon. Why don't they prescribe more? Mrt's doctor seems to have it right, pushing his level to 700, as 700 is actually in the normal range. (True normal range is 700-1200, not the commonly reported 240-800)

Testman (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:00 am Woe, thats way below normal, Heuvon. Why don't they prescribe more? Mrt's doctor seems to have it right pushing his level to 700, as 700 is actually in the normal range. (True normal range is 700-1200, not the commonly reported 240-800)

Normal depends entirely on the test and scale that the lab is using. Many use different methods and different scales. Nevertheless, 196 ng/dl (if that is the scale) is quite low. Huevon, perhaps ask the doctor to prescribe an injectable and some syringes - 1cc IM in thigh per week is usually a good level (more as needed), and a hell of a lot cheaper that patches or gel. You can do your own injections. Syringes are cheap, and a 10cc vial is $50-$70

The Gel (Androgel) is working better than the patch. after my surgery with one testicle left I started to use the patch (5 mg) and it seemed to work for about 3 months.Then when my level was still around 135 mg my doctor called my insurance to approve the gel.

I am still on 5 mg and T has incresed to 196 mg.Still not enough but I feel better. I just have to take a nap every afternoon between 1-3 pm.. just get very sleepy much more so then before the surgery. The hot flashes are coming sometimes but not often. I think that my doctor will increase the gel next time I see him.

So the question now is: How many people over 40 have to take a afternoon nap to function? Where is A-1 when you need him? H.

Huevon-man. I would very seriously talk to the doctor about increasing your dose. I was higher then your at now when I was diagnosed with hypogonadism. How old are you (If you don't want to answer that ok) your age and where your T should be roll down slightly but I can't imagine not being above 400 again. I was waking up sleepy. All the bad stuff...

Testman (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:00 am Woe, thats way below normal, Huevon. Why don't they prescribe more? Mrt's doctor seems to have it right, pushing his level to 700, as 700 is actually in the normal range. (True normal range is 700-1200, not the commonly reported 240-800)

I agree! 240 really stinks. The Testing Labs seem to all make up the numbers they like. Its VERY annoying. The AACE guidelines for treating men with low T say that 325 (I think it was) is the cut off where treatment should be considered. That said some males can function ok with lower T then others.

If your down near 300 and have symptoms you should get (or be able to get) help with HRT.