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Although I have never wanted to have any body parts amputated and don't want my testosterone level reduced, I have logged into this website on a number of occasions since finding it through a link a couple of months ago, and have made several posts on the message board. I find the Cellar and Political forums interesting, though the other parts of the message board don't usually include much that I want to read.

What strikes me as noteworthy is that most of the people who post on this forum seem sane and level headed. If you asked someone on the street what type of person would want his gonads cut off, the answer would probably be, that the person would have to be crazy to want that done. Yet I can't think offhand of anyone whose posts indicate severe mental imbalance. Some people are crazy most of the time, but have lucid intervals, so I suppose there could be some archive members who aren't as sane as they seem, but it seems to me unlikely that most of the people on the archive are much different than those members of the general public who don't have the castration desire.

I would assume that some of those who post on this forum have sought psychiatric counseling, and others were likely sent to a psychiatrist after their doctors or someone else found out what they were thinking. So my question is, simply, what do psychiatrists say about men who want their testes or penises removed? Is the desire considered a neuroses, a psychosis, an obsession which comes and goes? And has there been any medical research on the reasons why this urge develops? Is it considered a kind of half-baked desire for a sex change operation? There seems to be a wide cross section of people on the archive, in terms of age, sexual orientation, and lifestyle, so the desire for castration would appear to have a wide distribution in the population, though the number of people who actually have that desire must be a small percentage of all males. Other than on the forum, I never heard of anyone who wanted the procedure done, except for a few sex offenders who wanted to get out of prison.

I saw a psychologist briefly for post traumatic stress and on the third visit I told him I was a eunuch. Previously I told him of the events in my life that caused my PTSD. I mentioned my gender dysphoria of not feeling male but not wanting to be female. He thought I had made a logical choice for myself and was glad I was happy with the choice. His eyes did get a little bigger when he asked if the surgeon had me see a therapist and I asked what surgeon. He seemed to think I was quite sane. I agree.

It's a good question Beau! I was forced to a counsellor by my parents when they discovered I was self-harming in my late teens. Of course, really it was the desire to lose my testicles, though I rarely came anywhere close in the home.

And I know from seeing my own psychotherpist that - in his view - it didn't matter what it was called, or even what caused it. His primary concern was eliminating the urge to do things to myself, and was a firm proponent of behavioural therapy. Looking back, I wished the root cause could have been explored more thoroughly before I was castrated a few years later.

That said, I doubt the urges would have gone away entirely, and the thoughts would still have remained.

I guess this is a divisive topic, because some (like myself) will see this as a gender dysphoria, consisting of other traits and characteristics about myself and my identity that did not 'fit in with being male'. For others, it is done for asthetics.

But I think the universal view from any professional is that it is 'not normal', and they will not recognize it as anything other than what it is on the surface; a seemingly irrational desire to harm the body. (I know the few people I saw did!)

I never went to a psychiatrist, but did see two counselors, but they were not much help. I think that I am sane and was sane but not when testosterone was driving me to self abuse. The testosterone seemed to control my mind and I could not stop myself. I was driven to do damaging things, like cutting my scrotum open repeatedly week after week, month after month, year after year. For me, I think that there was some insanity in this action. On the other hand, with true insanity there are chemical inbalances, which is why a lot of people today who were once considered insane, can now live very "normal" lives by taking psychotropic? drugs, like depakote, zyprexa, clozapine, risperidone, etc. Maybe the eunuch community is similar in that we had a chemical inbalance of testosterone. I'll have to give this more thought, but I think I'm on to something. Hash

I saw a psychiatrist specialising in gender issues briefly just to check out whether I was severely off base about having my testicles removed. She had seen a lot o' guys with a castration desire, and I think she was just quite neutral towards older guys, explaining that there was both gender dysphoria and genital dysphoria. While the latter's abnormal, she didn't try to dissuade guys that she thought would be satisfied by losing their parts and that were otherwise balanced and normal. She complemented herself on dissuading some younger guys - late teens, early 20s - that might experience later regret about having their reproductive ability eliminated.

Another guy I know - already without balls or sac - also saw her to get a letter for a surgeon that he was aware of the consequences of having his cock removed. She supplied it after determining that he was normal except for this desire to have no external genitalia. He was also lucky to have a supportive wife and is now a happy bloke with a smooth crotch.

Of course, my BF knows I'm castrated, and I'm not shy about going nude in public. Few people notice, and it's not a big deal for most others. Even guys with whom I've had casual sex just accept I've no balls when they've determined my sac's empty.

There appear to be two separate issues here.

1. Gender identity/sex change.

2. Reduction of an abnormal sex drive.

The first issue is dealt with quite often by psychiatrists and there is a growing body of knowledge and of knowlegible doctors regarding it. As a result, TG persons should have little trouble finding help.

The second issue is still a gray area when it comes to finding a doctor. Unless you are a sex offender residing in certain States, there isn't much you can do openly. So this means that a non-TG male has great difficulty getting suitable medical treatment.

I'd like to hear from a psychologist or psychiatrist regarding non-TG castration issues.

What does a Psyciatrist say :

I heard a talk show the other day about a gay person also having wife and kids - and how wrong that was. Well while listening to this harrange, I thought, why could not a GAY person who likes menfolk - also like woman kind and have a family with her and kids - this sounded to me to be quite a normal thing, I thought.

I wonder what You GURUS think and why not ??? N3RF

Beau Geste (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:24 am Although I have never wanted to have any body parts amputated and don't want my testosterone level reduced, I have logged into this website on a number of occasions since finding it through a link a couple of months ago, and have made several posts on the message board. I find the Cellar and Political forums interesting, though the other parts of the message board don't usually include much that I want to read.

What strikes me as noteworthy is that most of the people who post on this forum seem sane and level headed. If you asked someone on the street what type of person would want his gonads cut off, the answer would probably be, that the person would have to be crazy to want that done. Yet I can't think offhand of anyone whose posts indicate severe mental imbalance. Some people are crazy most of the time, but have lucid intervals, so I suppose there could be some archive members who aren't as sane as they seem, but it seems to me unlikely that most of the people on the archive are much different than those members of the general public who don't have the castration desire.

I would assume that some of those who post on this forum have sought psychiatric counseling, and others were likely sent to a psychiatrist after their doctors or someone else found out what they were thinking. So my question is, simply, what do psychiatrists say about men who want their testes or penises removed? Is the desire considered a neuroses, a psychosis, an obsession which comes and goes? And has there been any medical research on the reasons why this urge develops? Is it considered a kind of half-baked desire for a sex change operation? There seems to be a wide cross section of people on the archive, in terms of age, sexual orientation, and lifestyle, so the desire for castration would appear to have a wide distribution in the population, though the number of people who actually have that desire must be a small percentage of all males. Other than on the forum, I never heard of anyone who wanted the procedure done, except for a few sex offenders who wanted to get out of prison.

One point I think that has to be made is that we are here for a variety of different reasons. Transexuals may desire castration simply to eliminate the costs and possible dangers of anti androgens. Men with insane sex drives that want to "do it" with little kids and are sane enough to know this is wrong may desire castration to simply get themselves under control. Some people have medical issues with their Testicles. Cancer, Hypogonadism, cronic pains etc and need them out (or have them out already) for that reason. Accidents, war injuries the list goes on. There are some who want this for fetish reasons as well. And if you look at the stories you will see they write some very creative prose which may shock, horrify or turn people on or all three. I came here also expecting some crazy insane "cult" people wanting to get cut so they could get a better seat on the mother ship UFO. So far? None on the rocket ship to MARS that I can find.

Beau,

I think your question rather ought to be looked at from a different perspective.

A quick answer would be that, along with transsexualism, volunteer castration is still viewed as a psychopathology among the majority of psychiatrists, although there have never been any references to eunuchs and castration in the psychiatric bible (DSM). In a few studies I have seen on medline, men with a castration desire were reffered to as "paranoid schizophrenics" who simply required extra large doses of the toxic chemical lithium as a "palliative treatment" (for example, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum ). Neither the real causes nor the well-recognized ill effects of testosterone were mentioned as a possible reason why these men wanted to be castrated, and the circumstances examined were of a questionable relevance. All they cared about is how to propagate yet one reason to increase the sales of the pharmacies that manufacture psychiatric drugs. The psychiatrist views on volunteer castration (unless it is a medical neccessity or in case of sexual abuse) is mostly filled with extreme prejudice and an ignorance of encyclopedic proportions.

Personally, I give a total damn (pardon the expression) about what a so-called "psychiatric community" may think - theorize - about people who desire castration on a well-informed, volunteer basis. I say this not only because I consider castration as perhaps the most unique surgical procedure there is (testicles are the only organs in the body that work for a foreign purpose - reproduction & associated behavior - ie. the testicles are parasites, with no practical benefit, and at times direct harm, for vital biological proccesses of the organism), but simply because, who would in their own right really care about what a bunch of unscientific charlatans have to say on the matter? Because this is the most important assertion we can make about the field of psychiatry.

We should keep in mind what psychiatry is and what it isn't. It is NOT a valid science. To this date, psychiatry failed to produce adequate proof of at least one of the by now 300 diagnoses listed in the DSM-IV (the amount of diagnoses keep growing - the next issue of DSM is expected to list up to 600 new diagnoses, according to a central APA member). There is no objective test - no blood or brain scan tests - for any of the psychiatric diagnoses that can be validated outside the subjective impression of an individual psychiatrist (or "inquisitor", if you like). Even psychiatrists recognize this important fact. According to a former president of the APA, Robert Spitzer, the DSM is "not a scientific document. It is a bunch of smart people who studied the literature and then came up with the best way to define diseases -- very few of the categories have an empirical base.", admitting that "DSM classifications did not rest on new scientific data". http://www.templeton-cambridge.org/fell ... art_1.html.

Unlike other medical professions, psychiatrists actually vote over the inclusions or exlusions of various "psychopathologies", and often with considerable disagreement (In 1973, 5584 psychiatrists voted against 3810 other psychiatrists to remove homosexuality as a "psychopathology" - 68% vs. 32%) Only the top influential APA psychiatrists - about a few thousands - are allowed to vote in defining a new "disorder" (just imagine the MD's voting over such diseases as diabetes, cancer, HIV.. ). In fact, simply put, psychiatry is a whore of the Big Pharmacy (f inst., see http://www.prozactruth.com/dsm_iv.htm and http://www.mental-health-abuse.org/rehabFraud5.html), and the result is that at least unlike psychology, psychiatry is NOT concerned with causes, only symptoms - symptoms that can be medicamented.

The whole "chemical imbalance" theory failed to produce any proofs and is still widely debated; not only is it impossible to define what a "chemical balance" really is, there is, again, no tests or scans that can effectively and without a doubt document a "chemical imbalance", equivalent to tests for say, diabetes or cancer (see: http://www.altpr.org/modules.php?op=mod ... le&sid=643). The effects of brain altering psychiatric drugs, while poorly documented to produce significant results (see: http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities ... nagers.asp), are nothing more than a "knock-out" effect by numbing the brain. It does NOT correct any "chemical imbalances", instead, it merely poisons the brain and numbs the symptoms, ALONG with many other vital personality traits of the "patient".

And I will not go into the history of psychiatry and it's role in psychosurgery, Nazi genocide and USSR political witch-hunt.

Having said that, I must add that I do NOT deny that emotional crises and irrational and bothersome behaviors do exist. What I am saying is that there has to be a distinction between a "mental disorder" and "currently socially unacceptable behavior" (nurture vs. nature, etc.). Unfortunately, psychiatry failed to realize the destinction between the two. Besides, it is compeltely wrong to assemble a set of behaviors (many of wich are mostly unrelated - see the links below) under an umbrella term of "disease", totally ignoring the peronal history and bioloigcal makeup of a person, drug it down and get away with it. Various forms of 'psychopathology' do arise from hormonal imbalances and neurological lesions (wich CAN be documented by objectionable trests), but I strongly disagree with the authoritarian psychiatric approach of "blaming the brain".

The bottom line is that is a total waste to discuss causes with a psychiatrist. If anything, psychaitry is all about politics, social control and big bucks. It has gradually taken this role over the Grand Inquisition and witch doctors/priests of the past, arrogantly hiding behind the phony shield of "science" and "medical authority" wich they are imposing on the society through the means of propaganda and advertizing. If you need help with self-insight, see a psychologist, or a priest. At least they won't see you as a potential customer of the Phramcy Industries, at least not as instantly.

PS: For more interesting links about psychiatry see (I do not neccessary agree with all of the statements below, but I agree with most):

http://www.psychdisorders.org/reviews.html - "Psychiatrists and other professionals on psychiatry"

http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html - Manifesto of Dr. Thomas Szasz, a former psychiatrist and psychiatric abolitionist.

http://www.oikos.org/mosher.htm - An official resignation letter to APA from a prominent psychiatrist Loren Mosher, MD. "Famous psychiatrist L.R. Mosher resigns from the American Psychiatric Association in disgust"

http://www.breggin.com/ - The offical site of Peter R. Breggin, MD., with lots of info on psychiatric drugs.

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ - The Antipsychiatry Coalition, lots of links & articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment - The famous Rosenhan experiment on the validity of psychiatric diagnoses.

Thanks for a most interesting response. I have to agree with 98% of what you say about psychiatrists.

As for calling your gonads "parasitic organs" - I have to disagree with this. Without gonads, there would be no reproduction - and that is the primary biological function of most life - to multiply itself. I'd have to say that our brains are the real parasitic organs - without them we wouldn't need psychiatrists or be discussing castration issues at all!

Kangan (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:57 am Thanks for a most interesting response. I have to agree with 98% of what you say about psychiatrists.

As for calling your gonads "parasitic organs" - I have to disagree with this. Without gonads, there would be no reproduction - and that is the primary biological function of most life - to multiply itself. I'd have to say that our brains are the real parasitic organs - without them we wouldn't need psychiatrists or be discussing castration issues at all!

All meds are an "art" not a science and shrinks even more so. *An opinion. We have a couple of foster kids who have greatly benifited from them however so I would not discount them out of hand.

I think there is a good thread to talk about gonads/hormones and the influence these create in a man. (Or ovaries in a woman) I've had a good look at both sides. Having healthy hormones means being "driven" I was trying to put down in words what that means to me. Driven to do things, to be sexual etc. When its just switched on from being in the OFF mode for a long time its a bit of a shock. I think that the inital feeling is almost of being carried away by it. Puberty in young boys who have all these "hormones" and are just wired to screw anything that moves for example. I can understand who a person without any self control switches would feel just carried away and not appreciate being a man. On the other hand for me I have a firm hand on my self control switches and a wonderfull outlit for my sexual desires (Mrs T) and find life with that "drive" to be a great thing.

However back to the initial question. I think it would be interesting how many people are here due to the following reasons.

Castrated not by choice (Accident, Cancer, chronic pains, etc)

Castrated by choice for sexual fetish type reasons

Castrated by choice for self control reasons.

Castrated by choice for other reasons (Atrophy, cosmetics)

And then after that I would be curious about the use of hormones.

None a hard core Eunuch

Strong Estrogen (Transexual Cocktail)

Strong Testosterone

Some minimum health only dose of either.

Kangan (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:57 am Thanks for a most interesting response. I have to agree with 98% of what you say about psychiatrists.

As for calling your gonads "parasitic organs" - I have to disagree with this. Without gonads, there would be no reproduction - and that is the primary biological function of most life - to multiply itself. I'd have to say that our brains are the real parasitic organs - without them we wouldn't need psychiatrists or be discussing castration issues at all!

Kangan, thanks for your kind comments.

Most of what I had to say about pscyhiatrists was only a summary. There is so much more to say; we could digress further into every aspect of psychiatric theory but this is perhaps not the right thread for that. My main intention was to briefly demonstrate that it does not really matter what psychiatrists have to say, because of the bogus and corrupted nature of the field, and even in spite of all the power they have to exercize social control.

As to the remarks regards "parasitic gonads" - please let me clarify. I did not mean to say that gonads were without purpose. I simply mean that there is a dual and conflicting interest to most sexual organisms when it comes to reproduction. It is called the "cost of reproduction", I believe. On one hand, you can have optimum health/vitality and no reproduction; on the other hand, you can trade off some of your resources and energy and deploy them in sexual reproduction, instead of further increasing your health and longevity. Breeding and associated behavior is usually very bothersome and requires a lot of energy and that energy is taken on behalf of other bodily tissues. This is exactly why gonads are the only organs that are inactive for the first 12 years of our life (except shortly before birth) - all the other organs, including the brain, are fully functioning and developing right after birth. This is also why castration results in increased life spans for most living organisms, from the extreme examples of salmon and some insects (more than 100% increase in life expectancy) to about 15% in larger mammals, simply because castration serves the purpose of preservation of self whilst gonadal output facilitates preservation of species on behalf of self. So, from a strictly individual standpoint, these hormones are completely unnecessary and parasitic.

However, this is not to say that hypogonadism is neccessary alien to propagation of the species. The concept of eusociality - societes where only a select handful of individuals ar allowed to breed - is actually an important part of nature that occur in many species to varying degrees (from complete eunuchdom in social insects and naked mole rat to decreased sexual hormones and behavior in subordinate flock members in rabbits, wolves, etc.)

Some scientists have also speculated if the use of eunuchs in ancient times was a similar kind of extended human version of eusociality.

However, I definitely believe that our brains are, perhaps, the most valuable organ in our possession. Without the brain to guide us in this world no higher life forms would have been possible (and we could breed asexually, with minimum resource depletion and such unpleasant side-effects).

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 am All meds are an "art" not a science and shrinks even more so. *An opinion. We have a couple of foster kids who have greatly benifited from them however so I would not discount them out of hand.

Actually, I have nothing against psychiatry if they:

1. Come forth and publicly admit what they really know about the so-called "mental illnesses", the "science" behind their claims, as well as how their "imbalance correcting" drugs really work;

2. Consent to complete separation of psychiatry and state and immediate cessation of involuntary commitment, drugging and electroshock.

If some people feel that their lives are better after chemical intoxiaction and brain damage, by all means, it is their private right to continue as long as they are aware of what they are doing and no coercion takes palce.

However, I DO feel sympathy for the poor children who are forced to consume toxins simply because their parents and caretakers cannot afford more time and effort to appropriately meet their needs.

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 am Castrated not by choice (Accident, Cancer, chronic pains, etc)

Castrated by choice for sexual fetish type reasons

Castrated by choice for self control reasons.

Castrated by choice for other reasons (Atrophy, cosmetics)

And then after that I would be curious about the use of hormones.

None a hard core Eunuch

Strong Estrogen (Transexual Cocktail)

Strong Testosterone

Some minimum health only dose of either.

I guees then I would be "

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 am Castrated by choice for other reasons

" and a "None a hard core Eunuch".

Eunuchist (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:47 am Actually, I have nothing against psychiatry if they:

1. Come forth and publicly admit what they really know about the so-called "mental illnesses", the "science" behind their claims, as well as how their "imbalance correcting" drugs really work;

2. Consent to complete separation of psychiatry and state and immediate cessation of involuntary commitment, drugging and electroshock.

If some people feel that their lives are better after chemical intoxiaction and brain damage, by all means, it is their private right to continue as long as they are aware of what they are doing and no coercion takes palce.

However, I DO feel sympathy for the poor children who are forced to consume toxins simply because their parents and caretakers cannot afford more time and effort to appropriately meet their needs.

I guees then I would be "

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 am Castrated by choice for other reasons

" and a "None a hard core Eunuch".

I'm curious how you came to be castrated (Kimmel or Spector?) and why you opted for no HRT? Or not? Its none of my biz really.

I think we agree for in general I'm not a fan of mental health meds. MrsT uses some now and the initial drug was one that would have made her (most likely) a female eunuch (asexual anyhow) and that would have made me a very unhappy MrT. We had to switch doctors explain our (my) fears and fortunatly she is taking a less troublesome drug.

As to kids and meds. Again in general I don't like this one bit the idea of dialing down kids who are loud and creative with meds. That said we have taken in kids who have been in very bad families who are WAY out of control. As in making enough trouble to bring the police to ask what the hell is going on. In addition not being able to sleep because they fear "Birth Daddy" will come back etc etc etc. Way too horrific stuff to talk about really. So in "SOME" very specific cases with very troubled kids and with a good doctor who is not just writing out scrips for the fun of it I do consider it ok or even essential. Maybe you have had contact with kids who have been raped, beaten regularly etc or not. I assure you this DID change my opinion on SOME drugs and some doctors who prescribe them. I'll admit that I still think a vast majority of this stuff is given for the wrong reasons to the wrong people. Hell I was told that if my hormones had not been tested and found to be near zilch that I would have been offered depression meds. *Not that I would have taken them!

I would have to admit that I also have a distrust of many doctors. I've seen more then a few and the smallest percentage impress me as being "good" doctors. Ones who diagnose causes rather then treat symptoms for example. Treat the entire person and not just the one problem and so forth. Just being able to communicate with patients seems a lost art. Several urologists I've "spoken" to never shut up about Golf or whatever for me to have a chance to say anything. Just insane...

Relative to some of the foregoing responses, I can say, categorically, that I would be up "shit creek" without a paddle, without the assistance of 1 or 2 extremely helpful psychiatrists, as well as some well prescribed "psyche meds." It took some time to determine which worked well for me, but I AM grateful for them.

As a former and recovering psychologist, I readily admit that the entire field of personality and clinical work is highly artistic, although I do allege that the science is advancing, albeit slowly. Notwithstanding the seemingly erratic appearance of the field at times (yes, I could tell many interesting stories....), it is in fact a worthy pursuit, and must not be dismissed wholesale; such an approach is as much the approach of the charlatan as are some who profess to be professional in the field of psychiatry. Maintain some healthy skepticism, but work with what is there.

I don't care how the content of the DSM is derived. While it is not the bible that some profess, it does lend some direction to thought, process, inquiry, and approach. It helps direct the brush stroke of the artist. The whole give and take of the process is just a more transparent aspect of what is in fact the approaches of science - just look at the back and forth vascillations of "science" through the ages - no more really need be said.

When the voices of reason compete with the voices of one's mind, tell me how you will know the difference, and to which you will listen.

I was fortunate to be helped by a sympathetic therapist when I needed it badly. I also had a useful experience with antidepressants. I can see where there is room for skepticism about the methods of psychiatry but, in my case all went well as I'm sure it has in many others. --FLO--

What do psychiatrists say? Well mine thinks I have a gender identity problem, this revelation caused my medical doctor and I to laugh so hard the nurse came in to find out if we were allright.

It has been my experience that most, not all, but most of us know exactly why we want them gone and are glad to be rid of them. I know that most of the eunuchs and I know a bunch would never be noticed as a eunuch by the public. We are just men without balls and glad of it.

The other thing I have noticed is that of non eunuchs and eunuchs, you may find as I have is that the eunuchs make the best and most loyal friends you can ever have. I am not sure why this is so but it goes beond other boundres, we are stright, gay, bi, young, old, TG, and put us in a room together and you would think we were all a tight family.

Final note, my eunuch friends are the best people I have ever known and totally real.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:14 pm What do psychiatrists say? Well mine thinks I have a gender identity problem, this revelation caused my medical doctor and I to laugh so hard the nurse came in to find out if we were allright.

It has been my experience that most, not all, but most of us know exactly why we want them gone and are glad to be rid of them. I know that most of the eunuchs and I know a bunch would never be noticed as a eunuch by the public. We are just men without balls and glad of it.

The other thing I have noticed is that of non eunuchs and eunuchs, you may find as I have is that the eunuchs make the best and most loyal friends you can ever have. I am not sure why this is so but it goes beond other boundres, we are stright, gay, bi, young, old, TG, and put us in a room together and you would think we were all a tight family.

Final note, my eunuch friends are the best people I have ever known and totally real.

River

I definitely concur with Old Man River here...

On the other hand, I do think Gender Identity Disorder for some eunuchs and wannabes is very possibly a real issue, and not from the perspective of MtF. Why not MtE or Non-Male, Non-Female, A-gender transexual? Certainly makes for an interesting concept, particularly thinking of "genderless" eunuchs as transgender.... First heard an interesting dicussion of this concept from Uncle Flo. Perhaps he could enlighten us more?

Perhaps I'll do just that. But it will have to wait until I get through my current virus induced funk. --FLO--

I have seen a psychiatrist regularly for last five years, specifically because of my desire for castration. I first submitted myself for psychiatric evaluation after I was in the emergency room of a hospital after yet another attempt at self castration. The psychiatrist listened carefully, didn't seem shocked or anything, said that I was suffering from an obsession and that anti-depressant SSRIs had been helpful to people who act out compulsively against their better judgement. He prescribed Celexa and referred me to a psychiatrist for regular counseling.

I have to say that the Celexa worked almost immediately -- within a couple days I went from hurting myself every day (I'd crush my balls in a door every morning before my shower, etc.) to rarely even thinking about it.

My main psychiatrist treated me professionally as well. His personal view is that I have a paraphilia (which I don't quite agree with), but in any case he feels SSRI is reasonable treatment. He also asked me to bring in all my castration tools and drugs so we could destroy them together. Otherwise, he just listens and occasionally adjusts my dosage depending on how much self-control I'm exhibiting.

So for those non-transexuals seeking psychiatric treatment I would definitely recommend right away approaching it as a compulsive behavior and a paraphilia. Even if a psychiatrist is not familiar with treating paraphilia, there is a lot of literature to which they can refer and which will get you in the right direction. Once you are diagnosed with paraphilia you can even get hormone treatments prescribed (my psychiatrist is willing to do this).

As long as you fit into a classification that they can find literature on, psychiatrists will be comfortable treating almost anything.

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:13 am I have seen a psychiatrist regularly for last five years, specifically because of my desire for castration. I first submitted myself for psychiatric evaluation after I was in the emergency room of a hospital after yet another attempt at self castration. The psychiatrist listened carefully, didn't seem shocked or anything, said that I was suffering from an obsession and that anti-depressant SSRIs had been helpful to people who act out compulsively against their better judgement. He prescribed Celexa and referred me to a psychiatrist for regular counseling.

I have to say that the Celexa worked almost immediately -- within a couple days I went from hurting myself every day (I'd crush my balls in a door every morning before my shower, etc.) to rarely even thinking about it.

My main psychiatrist treated me professionally as well. His personal view is that I have a paraphilia (which I don't quite agree with), but in any case he feels SSRI is reasonable treatment. He also asked me to bring in all my castration tools and drugs so we could destroy them together. Otherwise, he just listens and occasionally adjusts my dosage depending on how much self-control I'm exhibiting.

So for those non-transexuals seeking psychiatric treatment I would definitely recommend right away approaching it as a compulsive behavior and a paraphilia. Even if a psychiatrist is not familiar with treating paraphilia, there is a lot of literature to which they can refer and which will get you in the right direction. Once you are diagnosed with paraphilia you can even get hormone treatments prescribed (my psychiatrist is willing to do this).

As long as you fit into a classification that they can find literature on, psychiatrists will be comfortable treating almost anything.

On the other hand, some of us fit into categories called psychotic, schizophrenic, or bi-polar, or whatever label is convenient (I've been tagged with them all - big deal). Often the usual approaches don't fit or work. It requires a bit more effort and thought on both our part, and that of the attending physician/psychiatrist, and hopefully, thinking outside of "my box." All of these elements are worthy of consideration, but I suspect should never be considered as more than a jumping off point for any of us. I just prefer to suspend most limitations and requirements, consider my own perspective, and "bounce" it off several others who may or may not be sane (another bizarre and paradoxical word when one thinks about it.) Haste is truly our only enemy....

But that is the main problem with psychiatry. Because, what does it really mean to be "successfully diagnosed and treated" in psychiatric terms? It simply means that they manage to get you under one of those fraudulent, way-too-broad DSM labels, convince you that you are mentally ill, and begin intoxicating your brain with dangerous chemicals (or worse, electroshock and in earlier times, psychosurgery), all under the disguise of "treatment". There is no objectivism, no cures in psychiatry; all they offer are the so-called palliative "treatment" by drugs, electroshock and a small amount of talk therapy in isolated cases.

So, what is the psychiatrist's answer tot he majority of the diagnoses found in DSM? Answer: SSRI's and yet more SSRI's + amphetamine-like stimulants and some more brain-disabling chemicals like lithium (yep, that's the same stuff you find in your batteries). Got depression? Try SSRI's. Got obsessive disorder? Try SSRI's. Anorectic? Try SSRI's. Got social phobia and anxiety? Try SSRI's. Premature ejaculation? Try SSRI's.. The list goes on. SSRI's doesn't work? Don't worry, we've got some more powerful toxins up our sleeve; if that doesn't work, a 500 Voltage blow to your diseased brain (I hope you are not getting into the delusion that nothing is wrong with your brain, because that's called "Noncompliance with treatment", and that's a real mental disease for sure, so don't you get any ideas) would surely do the trick. So, in a sense, what is psychiatry really about? Psychiatry is all about drugs and fraudulent diagnoses. Take the drugs out and there is virtually nothing left of it; the whole field of psychiatry would collapse entirely. Armed with drugs, anybody could easily became popular by offering "treatment", without DSM or even the most basic medical education, simply by prescribing meds to such compaints as "I am afraid to get out", "I have troubles sitting still in school", "I am constantly afraid of death", "Years have passed but I am still depressed over the death of my relative", etc.

Some of the oft-told arguments used against critics of psychiatry that I have encountered, are that their drugs have been helpful to a number of people, so psychiatry must be true. But so has been excorcism and prayer, fasting, meditation, yoga, narcotics, alcohol, smoking.. because a drug has worked as "expected" does not validate anything beyond a subjective experience of the "patient". For example, we do also know that "weed" is usually helpful against neurosis while a few glasses of cognac help boost self-confidence and raise mood, and so on.

There are, in reality, no such diseases as Schizophrenia (also known as "The Sacred Symbol of Psychiatry") and Bi-polar Disorder; instead, these labels represent a set of a number of picked symptoms that psychiatrists and society at large would consider "troublesome". Most of those diagnosed exhibit only a bunch of the defined symptoms and there have been many instances that one pyshciatrist diagnose "Schizophrenia" and the next "Bi-polar", and the third soemthing completely different (well, as long as you can get on the durgs, so..). The diagnostic criteria, even for these potentially serious "diseases", is so broad and inconclusive, that most of us could be diagnosed with enough effort on the side of the psychiatrist (as the Rosenhan experiment, among others, clearly establishes - the psychiatrists are simply unable to tell the difference between "sanity" and "insanity" except the most severe and self-evident episodes). The brain scans wich psychiatrists claim represent some sort of increased anomalies among so-called schizophrenics have been presented, although in each instance up to 40% of the schizophrenic's scans turned out to be within the normal range, and in most cases, their brains were already altered by psych meds (wich have a documented brain altering effect detected by the CT scans). The testing of the efficiency of anti-depressants, while constituting a significant bias because the side-effects of anti-depressants are easily noticeable by physicians, still shows only a small and at times less than effect vs. a placebo http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/dr ... -18-04.htm (wich is clearly not worth the side-effects). And we are not talking about the majority of the less serious "diseases", wich can and never will be identified by any independent tests.

Needless to say, psychiatrists have been searching for objective tests since 1892 and they keep on searching, some 36 years since the first CT scans were introduced.

kristoff wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:26 am I definitely concur with Old Man River here...

On the other hand, I do think Gender Identity Disorder for some eunuchs and wannabes is very possibly a real issue, and not from the perspective of MtF. Why not MtE or Non-Male, Non-Female, A-gender transexual? Certainly makes for an interesting concept, particularly thinking of "genderless" eunuchs as transgender.... First heard an interesting dicussion of this concept from Uncle Flo. Perhaps he could enlighten us more?

But why neccessary disorder as opposed to alternative lifestyle? In such a case, we should define homosexuality as a "Sexual Identity Disorder", because of the priori assumption that heterosexuality and birth gender constitutes a standard/norm.

Eunuchist (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:18 pm But why neccessary disorder as opposed to alternative lifestyle? In such a case, we should define homosexuality as a "Sexual Identity Disorder", because of the a priori assumption that heterosexuality and birth gender constitutes a standard/norm.

You are getting my point....

I don't know whither this is going, but being gay is neither a disorder, nor an alternative lifestyle. Of course, it was regarded as a disorder not too many years ago, perhaps too many for Eunuchist's living memory (~30 y.o.?). Nor is it considered a lifestyle choice, although many gay people do choose to be sexual and to live in accordance with their sexual preference. The research I've seen says that anywhere from 4-10% of all men are gay, regardless of ethnicity, place of residence, etc. Of course, we do re-arrange ourselves geographically once we become adults.

A castration disire, the desire for total or partial emasculation, may be a psychiatric disorder. Going back several weeks to the origins of this thread, perhaps the issue should be how much of a disorder? How serious a disorder is it? The psychiatric community treats gender dysphoria as something that's minor enough that perhaps those with it should be treated by having their disorder satisfied. There's a procedure and protocol for transitioning to the other gender. A psychiatrist I once consulted identified genital dysphoria as a separate disorder that might well be treated by granting the desire for those with it. Some surgeons have worked with her and psychiatrists or counsellors thinking like her in undertaking fairly radical surgical castrations, often nullification, removal of the entirety of the genitalia, but more often partial emasculation, removal of the testicles only or partial penectomy (shortening of our members). Of course, for some the desire for body mods of any kind is an abnormality or a disorder. Whatever one's take on the subject, a castration disire and the desire for any body mods, especially modification of one's genitals, occur along a continuuum and are a disorder only to that extent.

Such disorders are often not a big deal, certainly not something that need be treated with pharmaceuticals. My own take is that pharmaceuticals should be reserved for personality disorders, that which they were designed to treat - bipolar, schizophrenia (sp?), etc. This doesn't mean that many individuals don't have both a personality disorder and a gender or genital dysphoria.

Sorry for the rant, guys, but I prefer that we treat the subject with the objectivity it deserves and not have the discussion deteriorate into a subjective discussion of psychiatry. And again, if a desire for castration is a disorder, there is the psychiatric point of view - not totally accepted by the entirety of the profession - that it can be worked with, that people's desire for transitioning to another gender, for asexuality or for removal of their genitals can be worked with such that the person's ability to live on in an altered state can be facilitated. And that's why there are surgeons that will work with psychiatrists. I've known several guys - and we all know of such - that are perfectly happy losing it all and being totally smooth in the crotch. And a few surgeons are confident enough or don't believe that such a desire is truly a 'disorder', certainly not of the personality or behavioural type, that they'll grant such desires without resort to counselling or psychiatrists. The latter usually help their clients determine if emasculation is their true desire. Most adult guys are capable of that decision.