EA Forums

Before we get to the question and discussion, there are some ground rules for this thread.

NUMBER 1: There are going to be NO bans resulting from any discussion on this thread.

NUMBER 2: Replies will NOT be edited or deleted by any of the moderators.

NUMBER 3: I want everyone to share their views on this question.

These are hard rules, being handed down from on high. I want honesty, not "yes-men". This is your archive too, but it may not be for long if you don't speak out. There is one other request though. Just because you will not be tossed does not mean you should start attacking others. This isn't a rule, but I'm asking all of you to try and remain polite and friendly. Surely you can get your message across without personal attacks or insults.

DISCUSSION 1:

Having watched the message board for awhile, and thinking back to how things were years back, I have to wonder if the EA is as open and friendly a place as it was in the past.

This question has been brought home repeatedly, and I know I'm not the only one asking it. I've been sent email from several members who tell me that they either are leaving, or are thinking of leaving, because they feel things are out of control, not as welcoming or open as they used to be. In short, because the message board isn't a nice place to hang out anymore.

I know I'm not even the only 'official' here, who wonders if it's changed. I know for a fact there are two who do feel it's changed, and for the worse.

I don't want to assign blame. That is not my intent. Since I'm currently the head of the EA, I take the blame and the responsibility. Put the issue aside.

What I want to know is, do you feel the EA has become less open and friendly? What would help make it more so? Why is it not anymore?

Remember, I guarantee no one will punish you for speaking your mind.

Thanks for opening this discussion, IE. As with anything that experiences growth, things do change with the number of people involved, the number of posts, and so on. I don't know if this is "worse" or just "different."

I do think that the tone of the message boards has changed. Reading posts, it seems that there are some people who are VERY quick to criticize or make negative comments to people. Sure, we've all seen lots of people come and go, and yes, a lot of guys visit here just as a wanking outlet, but I think we need more courtesy and understanding.

It seems to me that just about everyone here who is "serious" about genital mods of any kind started out curious and nervous. And a lot of them were here for a long time just wanking before they came to understand what the interest in this site was about FOR THEM. I know that I visited many, many times before I actually decided that I would go on Androcur, and it took a long time for me to understand that I wanted the real thing, and to find ways for that to happen. I'm sure it would have been more difficult if I had received discourteous responses to questions I posted here.

Obviously, like any internet site, there are nitwits. The guy whose first post is "Where can I find a Cutter in Punxsutawney" should expect to be informed of policies and what is an appropriate post. If that turns him off, that's unfortunate. However, it might create a more welcoming environment if he was told, "That's not an appropriate post. Why don't you read more of the postings and discussions, and learn more about things? We're glad you're here, but we do have rules."

The political and social discussions can be fun, but they need to be clearly separate from the castration discussion. And they should never be angry; folks who make angry comments on the board should read them aloud before they post and see how they sound. I don't think there is ever a place for advocating violence here or on any site.

One thing that I think might be a plus would be an ongoing thread or subsection open to long-standing members, people on anti-testosterone meds, or actual eunuchs. Perhaps an ongoing discussion by experienced folks might help the curious, the confused, and the newbies sort things out.

Finally, I have to thank EVERYONE who makes this place possible. Your work is underappreciated, and we don't acknowledge you all often enough. I can remember when my only link to this community was the occasional ad in "Drummer" (yes, I got a letter from Bodkin LOL). And I remember when you would wait for ages in the chat room before ONE other person would appear. This has come a long way since BBoy, Shannon, and all, got it going. I hope it remains a positive place for anyone who drops in.

My 2 cents.

Terry

Pittsburgh

I've seen my share of "flaming" on here and also a few folks have been banned for various reasons. So far, this doesn't seem to be much different than other non-Ea sites.

However, there are a few folks who have taken extreme exception to something that was said and either "flamed" the poster, or the poster quit in disgust to the "flames."

Patience, people. Words said (or typed) in anger can be the most devasting (and the hardest to retract gracefully).

Let's tone down the Ego's a bit. Think before you post. Peace.

Unfriendly YES it is as i am a republican and as i read the posts on this i see i am not wanted in here and am even told i should be shot.How can we say this and then condem thoes who kill like in Virgina.No i dont like people who want to kill me

So, how honest do you really want it!!!

E

First off, I want to thank you, IEunuch, for starting this converstation. For many of us, this place has been very special for a long time, and I greatly appreciate the opportunity for the community to talk about how to make it thrive as an open and friendly place where people of all genital modification interests feel welcome and accepted.

Things have changed over the years, there's no doubt about that. Some of those changes have been wonderful -- giving us a more robust forum, chat room and story archive. Some of those changes have been necessary, whether they are pleasant or not -- due to past hacking attacks on the site and extraordinary growth, it's only natural that the community has had to circle the wagons somewhat and draw bright lines that keep the place working. Regardless, I want to thank everyone who has put in long hours of dedication to making this place what it is.

But there have been other changes, as well, gradual changes in atmosphere and attitude that do make the Archive and especially the forums a less welcoming place. Recently, this trend seems to be accelerating.

Some of these developments stem from the natural tendency of people to group together by interest, temperment, or position, creating an us v. them attitude and an overall lower level of acceptance and civility. Another part of the gradual change is no doubt precipitated by the isularity of our comminuty -- because of our interests, desires and/or choices, we all face anxieties and fears of being attacked, marginalized or worse, and this tends to lead us to have defensive responses to questions, criticism and new-comers. Finally, growth itself is part of the problem -- the more personalities involved in the community, whether on the participant or staff level, the more likelihood there will be significant clashes of style and expectations. None of these factors are particularly new or unique to the Archive, and none of them has an easy solution.

What does strike me as new and particularly toxic to the community atmosphere is the recent tendency of posters and moderators alike to squelch dissenting or idiosyncratic or implausible or just plain weird points of view, often with a dismissive, high-handed, "my way or the highway" manner. People who complain or criticize the conventional wisdom, even constructively, have been told if they don't like it here, leave, things aren't going to change. This attitude certainly isn't unique to the Archive, but it is relatively new.

I don't think of myself as a rabblerouser, and I'm not the sort of person who flames, makes personal attacks, or argues for the sake of scoring points. Nor am I a shrinking violet with a thin skin. But to put things bluntly, over recent months I've felt the need to self-censor myself repeatedly to avoid being attacked or risk being banned because of my ideas or recent developments in my life. Even when I think I have something of value to offer, it's not worth risking the stress and upset it would cause after seeing how others have been treated. I'm not going to discuss individuals or specific instances, but I'm guessing most of you have a sense of the types of things I'm talking about. Honestly, I'm having to question whether this is the community for me, and that's particularly sad given that this trend is so antithetical to the explicit message upon which the Archive was founded.

As for a solution, I'm not quite sure what to offer, but I really, sincerely want to find one. I've stepped away from the Archive before -- first because of anxiety and self-loathing as I first began to explore my desires and later due to my sadness when we lost Bboy -- it left a hole in my life both times.

The only prescription I have is a generalized one. It's going to take both individual responsibility and collective action. Chat participants and forum posters are going to have to be more serious about being open, accepting, respectful and civil -- many already do this, and I applaud them, but just a few bad apples can spoil the whole bushel. From the collective standpoint, it strikes me that we also need a renewed commitment from administrators and moderators to foster the environment we want. There's no doubt that the people responsible for running this site have a deep sense of commitment and dedication to the project, but sometimes human beings lose sight of the forest for the trees. In either case, a quick one-liner or a snide, point-scoring comment isn't worth making people feel unwelcomed.

We're all adults here, I hope, and yes, we should act like it. We also have to keep in mind that this comminuty includes people going through a new type of adolescence, an exploration of a new sexuality. Questions, criticism, craziness, oddness, woundedness, sadness, fear, empowerment, exhilaration, silliness, excitement, passion, belligerance, satisfaction, defensiveness, and flourishing are all appropriate and natural parts of our comminity. But each interaction we have on the Archive leaves an imprint on this place and on others. Feel what you feel, say what you have to say, but always remember that we're in this together.

Kevin

estragen (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:38 am So, how honest do you really want it!!!

E

As I said, you're not gonna be punished for honesty. Please feel free to be as honest as you can.

Maybe some people are just too sensitive? I mean, if you're gonna go crawl under a rock because someone calls you a nappy headed eunuch, then maybe you need to grow a set of balls!

Okay, forget I even said that. That whole paragraph is fuct up.

My appologies to Pearl. Now where was that Tequila Sunrise I had sittin' around.......... oh there it is!

Stay Strong, People. Why smell that way if you don't act that way?

That's it! I'm banning myself! Ultra Ban that is! It's not just for under the arms anymore. Behind the knees and between the cheeks won't do you no harm.

Okay, I better go before I get silly.

I think some moderators might wield their power to ban too freely. Piss one moderator off, and you're gone. Granted, seeing only what's on the message board might not give a clear picture of what's going on behind the scene, exchange of emails or pm's between the offender and moderator, but it gives the appearance of arbitrary action by a moderator. I think perhaps there should be an explanation given when someone is banned, otherwise all we see is that someone has been banned for little apparent reason. If someone constantly flames other people, he should be banned, but not for just pissing a moderator off.

Also, some seem to think that this should be a forum only for "real" eunuchs.

People wanting to talk about castration fantasies are often put down by real eunuchs on the board. Most people showed up here in the first place because of the castration fantasies they had, not because they were already eunuchs. If this is to be a forum for eunuchs only, so be it, but that's not how it was when I first arrived here in 2002 (damn...it's been that long?). Real eunuchs should realize that some people just want to fantasize about castration, and that those people shouldn't be put down for their fantasies. Certainly, there's a place for serious talk, and a distinction should be made between fantasy and reality, but let's don't make all discussion so serious.

How about allowing a little fun and fantasy on the board once again? Bboy started this board and the story archive because of his fantasy. He actively encouraged fantasies then, penectomy fantasies in particular. Now, I get the impression from replies from some members, the serious eunuchs, "If you're here to wank off, to get turned on, leave. We don't want you."

Let some have their serious discussions and let others talk about their fantasies without being put down for having them.

The message board has become all to serious. It's not a fun place to hang out.

There was a time that I spent hours in the chat room. This is going back to 2001 and 2002. There were people there that wanted to talk and chatted with me. Now I go in there and almost no on talks to me. I enjoy the message board greatly. See people there that seem intelligent and great. I like the personalities there. I enjoy reading of others experiences using Chemical Castration drugs and others experience in surgical castration.

sag111 (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:00 am Unfriendly YES it is as i am a republican and as i read the posts on this i see i am not wanted in here and am even told i should be shot.How can we say this and then condem thoes who kill like in Virgina.No i dont like people who want to kill me

Thank you for saying that. I think there are some who feel that anyone who is not anti republican should be shot etc. I don't even like debate but that kind? Sheesh! I thought we learned some things from 1930s Germany-think.

As for me I've become rather jaded. I don't think the differences between the parties is all that strong anymore and that the common thread is anti "us" in either case.

Some time ago, in fact, not that long ago, I made a post that I was resigning my duties at the Eunuch Archive. This came at a time when the hackers had torn the Archive to pieces, and none of us were sure if what we had worked day by day and for so long to build would ever be resurrected. I cited that the Archive was not what it used to be, and that I had had enough of the increasing hostility level.

But before I go into any more of that, let me give you a bit of back story.

I discovered the Archive back in late 1996 and became a more frequent visitor when I got my first PC in early 1997. Back then, there was a small story section and ONE message board. Your topic was the only thing that put it into a "section", as there were no real sections as you see now. The silly thing also wasn't moderated, and anyone could post anything. Then there was the Java chat room, which announced joins with a silly "POP" sound and tended to make Windows 95 (the best OS to be had back then!) freeze up solid a lot.

It was there that I met first Gem, then IE under a different name, Portentum, Talula, and of course, Bboy. There is no way to put into words the relief that I felt when I discovered that I was NOT the only person in the world with a fixation on castration. I was not alone in my desires and/or fantasies. And there was a LOT of fantasy back then, for those who recall.

The dark side of this was that I was, in fact, ready to attempt self-surgery via an elastrator. I was also ready to do this WITHOUT knowing the side effects of castration and testosterone deprivation. Those who know my history will already know that puberty was a rough and stuttering trip through for me, augmented by all those mysterious "tetanus boosters" I had when I wasn't injured. To make a long story short, things started going haywire when I went off to college and those shots stopped. Things got worse some years later, as Talula and others will certainly recall, when I started seriously fooling around with elastrators and wound up doing some serious long-term damage from repeated inflammations that became untreated infections. Trust me, a systemic infection is not something you want to get, much less live through. THAT part of it was in my rampant fantasy days, and what followed with the pain and testosterone failure was the cold splash of reality that few tend to realize is really out there and will hit them...and hard!

Where this ramble is going is that the old chat here at EA is where I made my first online friends. As time passed, we moved on to IRC with Pirch98, etc., and spent many a night chatting away. It was there that these friends enlightened me and stopped me from doing something stupid that COULD have cost me my life, had I not met up with them and they stopped me. And when I did myself harm, and got sick as a result, those same EA friends were there to support me and keep me going. They were also there to say, "Been there, done that," when the side effects of low T. set in. Through them, I adapted and decided to remain among the living.

As time passed, many a night was spent on ICQ chatting with Bboy about the Archive. He had plans. He had software. He had a dream. He only needed someone to stay up late and "play with him." So I did. And in time, I fell in love with him. As he cobbled things together and I broke them in return, or fished out all the bugs in them, B. and I slowly started putting things together.

Enter Talula.

Here was a code-writing maniac who was a Godsend to the Archive and Bboy personally. To say nothing of his friendship to me, too. What B. had been going alone at, he assigned to Talula and I, and the Archive you see now actually began to take shape.

With B's ideas, Talula writing it into code with him, and me trying to run it and break it, the first Archive Staff, per say, was formed. Personal lives began to change, and B. asked me to take on more duties. I agreed. I offered to do more than he asked. At this point, I had the stories to screen, edit, post, as well as all the email to answer and make referrals to. Many a night was spent on ICQ or some IM of the day chatting away with people who I'd never met, who I would never meet...

In 2001, I finally made the pilgrimage to the Mother Ship, also known as Talula's place, where garages fly and so does Talula! I was there for almost a month. I dare say this was one of the happiest times of my life.

No one ever kissed me like B. did, and I don't think anyone ever will again.

Things were running smoothly - except for the fact that B. was too nice of a guy and MADE ME DO ALL HIS DIRTY WORK! "You're the bad cop," he always reminded me, hence my persona.

And the Archive went on.

Life slowly changed, though, and B. eventually announced his retirement. The Archive was turned over to Talula, and a committee was formed of several members to oversee various issues. B. stepped back and watched his "child" placed into the loving hands of others.

And we did love the Archive, and it grew.

B. passed away some time later, leaving an aching void in all of us that we knew would never be truly filled by anyone else in this Life.

But his dream endured.

For a time.

Again, many things changed. That child grew up and became more than any of us ever foresaw.

New committee members took on more and more diverse duties.

Then came the big hack.

For me, this was almost like losing B. all over again when Talula told me, when I asked if it could be repaired, he grimly said, "P., I don't know. I honestly don't. It's really bad."

What seemed like an eternity later, the main page was back - but all that was there was a notice for users as to what had happened. It could be weeks, months, no one knew, before EA was back online.

I mentioned before that B. the "nice guy" who made me do his dirty work, and that is the truth. It was at the time of the big hack, however, that I decided to resign. Others were now doing the mail, giving advice, and I had been posting stories. Most of the Message Board oversight was now in Kristoff's hands, along with Robby, Flo, and others I am probably leaving out. Apologies!

So I decided to take my leave of EA as it was handed over to IE. Change was in the air again, and I wanted nothing to do with it.

In that light, I made a post citing an increasing hostility level that I could no longer stand. Combined with demands on my time, increasing issues with being a part-time parent to five healthy boys, and changes in career, not to mention my emotional state of being over the possible loss of EA, I made my decision and left.

It was only Kristoff's call for help that brought me back, and I will be totally honest with every one of you about this-

I did not want to do it.

As far as I was concerned, the EA that I knew had died - been murdered.

If you think there's an amount of hostility on the Boards, try being a Moderator for a while! It wears on you after a while, trust me, and I'd been at this for years. In trying to enforce what I was told to enforce, I feel that I became the focus of this increasing hostility and I could take no more of it. Now, some would say that I brought it upon myself. I don't dispute this at all. I freely admit that my style of management does not sit well with everyone and never will. My personality, for those who really know me, is loud and abrasive and sometimes violent. I currently have a cash contract out on someone whom I cannot get away with revenge on personally ... that is the real ME. I get things done, and when I'm done, no one EVER forgets that I fixed it.

Another truth is that I never wanted to do that, here.

But I did it for B., because he asked me to.

Now if you think that we just sit here and circle like vultures waiting to ban someone, you're wrong. Explanations of our actions are not routinely posted for all to read, and there is no reason, I feel, to do so. I, and the other Mods for that matter, have put up with a LOT. Banning someone is the always the LAST resort, unless it's a spammer.

Personalities and styles are hard to get right online, when you all have is text to read. It is far too easy to read things into posts that are not there. This is something that we all have screwed up with, I dare say.

But back to the issue at hand, yes, the hostility level has increased over the past few years at a pace of probably a slow boil. Lately, it's been boiling over a LOT lately. Personal attacks have increased, the hate mail on this end has increased, and you may not believe it - but I have taken a much lighter approach to a LOT of things and probably let them go too far before something was done or said. And yet I still feel a lot of hostility here.

Others raise the point that those who really are physically eunuchs have "a thing" against those that are not. Those who know the reality of eunuchdom are far too snippy with newcomers. It is, I think, an "us" vs. "them" thing going on.

When I made my post saying that I was leaving, I encourage the Staff to do something about it.

When I was asked to come back, I tried personally to ease into it with a more upbeat attitude.

But that's hard to maintain when you're reminded on a daily basis that you are "the bad guy."

Forums online must have rules, and they must have someone to enforce them.

Anyone who thinks this forum is bad needs to sign on to some others. For instance, I have hit boards where things were posted by Mods such as:

-If you start a topic that is already addressed, you will be banned. Use the search function before posting a topic.

-Posting off-topic to a subforum will get you banned.

-Story submissions MUST and WILL be in said format, or they will be accepted.

-Posts that diverge from the topic will be removed. Eventually you will be banned.

-"Bothering" other members will get you banned. Define "bothering" I thought...

So what's to blame for the state of the EA Boards now?

I don't know for sure.

What I do know, however, is that for me, EA long ago became work and not fun. Despite the collection of history and facts, thanks muchly to Jesus(A), something was and is still missing. Maybe we are too focused on the reality, and there is no longer a fun outlet for fantasies. Fantasies, recall, are what started EA and what still continue to bring others here today. Even though there is a forum for that, it's not that high mileage of a forum. It's nothing like the old 1-Board system used to be. You never knew what you would find there, or what someone would do in reply!

Is the fun gone, as Slammr mentions?

For me, yes.

For others who have emailed or PM'd or IM'd me since I came back, it is for them as well.

Some of those on Staff will remember the night at Talula's table that the idea for an Archive Christmas Story came to me. I ran to the computer, and in a matter of hours, had turned out a story that had them thoroughly entertained as if Tolstoy had just written "War & Peace". But that kind of inspiration is gone now.

And yet I feel there is a duty to those newcomers, because without EA being there and the friends I made through it, I shudder to think what might have happened in my life.

I cannot help but wonder what might happen if EA is not here to intercept a "newbie" who is about to make a huge mistake.

But I also wonder where the fun went.

And it's not just at EA, folks, really.

Yes, there is a problem here.

But that same problem is everywhere.

How often does someone go off in public for the slightest offense or littlest error they see made? Stop and think for a moment, are you more or less hateful and intolerant than you were, say, ten years ago? Do you even realize it? And do you take it out on those around you, and upon those online who are "around you" there? Flames start flying at once anymore at the drop of a ham sandwich, it seems like. Passions ignite instantaneously anymore, and not just here at EA. I wonder if online Board use and commentary reflects our real lives?

Scary, isn't it?

So here we are.

Yes, we have a problem.

And I don't know how to fix it, for as much as I have personally tried. (Believe it or not.)

In brutal honesty, in closing my input on this topic, I admit that I do not want to be here now. I didn't want to be here anymore when I left, and I didn't want to come back to the hostility that I posted about. But a part of me finds this analogous to turning your back on a child that didn't grow up to fit YOUR (my) own expectations. Having lived through that, I also do not want to do that with the Archive. I have promised myself that I will never do to any of "my" boys what was done to me. Then again, I have to stop and ask myself, does there come a time when one must do just that? Does one come to the point where the damage is irreparable?

As I said before, I often feel I have nothing left to advise or offer where EA is concerned. I certainly don't on this one, other than to invite PM's and email about it.

In answer to those who have messaged me, I will not respond in any detail now. It is the voice of others that needs be heard, not mine. This has been very informing so far, and ought be more so, I hope. Glad IE put this up; a needed discussion.

I also have the EA to thank for all the friends and answers i have gleaned from this board.I have many friends who are gay or transgendered and i have always been tolarent of others even though i may not agree with all they do.I feel to many in here just cant stand someone who has diffrent thoughts or is of a diffrent political party then they and the flaming and attacks begin.Yes the archive is importiant for the person like myself and others who need that help that can only be found in here.I guess if i were to sugest anything it would be to be more tollarent and accepting of others feelings and thoughts and stop the attacks that only make a person not want to come in here.

Paolo wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:23 pm -If you start a topic that is already addressed, you will be banned. Use the search function before posting a topic.

-Posting off-topic to a subforum will get you banned.

These two rather surprised me.

Is there no room for deleting a post, moving a post, dropping a message to the poster, pointing out where the topic has already been dealt with?

I can understand the "bothering" people bit. But why the ultimate message-board sanction for these?

sag111 (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:00 am Unfriendly YES it is as i am a republican and as i read the posts on this i see i am not wanted in here and am even told i should be shot.How can we say this and then condem thoes who kill like in Virgina.No i dont like people who want to kill me

Dad,

whoever told you that was totaly wrong to bring that kind of hate here.

Hugggggggggs

Jema

Calmeilles & Everyone:

Those were from other message boards that I have used ... briefly.

They ARE NOT rules for this board.

Thanks for that story, Paolo. It brought back a lot of good memories. Some bad ones, too, but overwhelmingly it's the good ones that last.

I think you and Slammr have hit on something important with the fantasy and fun theme. This is going to sound incredibly lame given the quality of some of jokes, but even when I have taken a break from the Archive in the past, when I returned, the first place I checked out was the jokes section. Even the incredibly corny ones always make me smile, as do the silly, quicky stories where bits disappear as if my magic or when a mysterious hole receives a sudden stampede of Ford agency models seeking new smoothness. All that's still here, but it seems there used to be a much better balance between the serious (sometimes deadly serious) and the wacky, wild kool-aid fun.

Part of the problem is that the forums have become drearily technical and clinical, and I say this as someone who has faced some very serious stuff and who values the information and support the "reality" folks have to offer. Reality and seriousness have a place here, a highly important place, but we've gone too far -- the fun has been segregated to a kind of ghetto. Maybe that's what the majority wants, I don't know, but it didn't happen by accident.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular here, but I have to say that the marginalization of the lighter side comes from posters and moderators in equal measure. Even in the fantasies & biography and penectomy sections, people who post about their more esoteric fetishes get mocked. I'm sure it's not usually intended to be mean, but it comes off that way. Mods seem to carry a much bigger and quicker stick when it comes to this stuff, too.

How do we encourage more fun and fantasy? The first step is to stop discouraging it. Another step? Maybe separate the fantasy and biography sections and make the fantasy section a free-for-all zone (within legal limits, of course).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess that brings me back around to style. Paolo brought up his style explicitly, but I'm not talking about him or anyone else specifically. It's a general phenomenon that moderators often internalize and magnify the "bad cop" role they are forced to assume because of their position. It happens on all moderated boards. The guy who starts out having to make hard decisions with regret but a few months or years later is posting things that make it sound like he enjoys being a hard ass just for the fun of it.

Maybe it's a defense mechanism to shield against an unpleasant role. Maybe certain personality types are drawn to enforcing the rules. Maybe they (and others) think it's funny. I don't think it's helpful in the least, especially not in a comminuty where people are taking first steps out of a really deep closet.

More broadly, and I don't mean this to sound like a lecture, but there's a big difference between being your genuine self, standing up for the rules, feeling passionate about your ideas, etc. and not making choices about style and appropriateness for the circumstance. I get the impression that a lot of people -- here, elsewhere on the internet, in the world in general -- have this relatively new attitude that "this is how I act, I can't change it, and I don't give a flying flip if you like it". That's a crock. The people who take this attitude are making a choice with consequences.

People make the choice to modulate their normal mode of expression all the time. I'm doing it right now, or every other word would be an expletive (I don't mean that I'm pissed off right now -- I just cuss a lot). It's probably time for all of us to do more of it.

Hi Every one,

I think poll the question "Has the EA become less friendly?" may be the wrong question to ask. The main reason I feel this is, because as it is worded now, the poll simply elicits opinion which it simultaneously tints in a negative light, by implying there is a problem. This will skew the result of the poll, and any analysis derived from it.

Now I do feel there is a problem here on the EA with flaming and unfriendly behaviors though I can't say for sure if it is better or worse than it has been in the past. I do recall a red nun stomping out a forest fire over spelling and punctuation,:D but I digress.

The other reason I feel the poll is asking the wrong question has to do more with my personal philosophy. Simply stated, your first step should be in the direction you intend to go. I would suggest that goal is to make the EA the most warm and welcoming place it can be.

So my suggestion is to forget the radio button portion of the poll and simply ask people to suggest ways to make this a more friendly place.

The advantage is clear. By asking for solutions, you are actively engaging the members of the archive in a positive task. Assuming that there is an issue with negativity here on the archive, this step alone would do much to address the problem. First because the members are actively engaged in the process they are more likely to think about their own actions, and secondly because they will come up with many possible solutions and suggestions that no one or three people would ever come up with one their own.

As it stands now, the poll will yield many opinions on the severity of the problem, and perhaps some of the likely causes, it will yield few solutions. It also has the potential for descending into another round of acrimonious finger pointing, which at this point would be just one more sad thing to deal with.

So in keeping with my philosophy, here are two suggestions to help keep things nice.

1) On our EA splash page or at some point users will see it: A gentle and simple reminder to respect all forms of diversity here on the EA. Be it political view point, gender identity, sexual orientation, type or presence of genitalia i.e Almond Joy has got nuts, Mounds don't

2) On entering the political forum a reminder to users to debate only the issue and never the person. More importantly... What happens on the political forum stays on the political forum.

I would also like to remind every one of the wonderful job the administrators do keeping the EA alive and running as smoothly as it does. Paolo and Kristof especially. Their task is a thankless one as I have recently learned my self. I recently became a board member of the tavern pool league I play in. I have had to sit on two disciplinary hearing the season and ban to close personal friends. It stinks having to be the bad guy and being in the position where it is better to error on the side of caution rather than lenience.

Huggggggggs to all,

Jema

First I have to say that I believe the EA has helped countless people and there is a place for it in the world. Too much complaining will do little more then secure a fate of the EA closing.

As with any chat room or blog, there are going to be people with different views then your own, the trick is to not take life so seriously. We should all be trying to stick together and support each other instead of pit ourselves against one another.

The chats and the boards have pretty simple rules; if they are followed there should not be any problems. Politics should be left out of both the chats and posts and so should egos.

My advise to anyone who is offended is to take a step back, take a deep breath and try to put yourself if the other persons shoes. If someone is attacking you or your belief the best thing to do sometimes is to ignore them! By responding to a threat or a demeaning post, you are fueling their flame. Eventually the problematic people leave, the good people stay.

Hope that helps, I guess it wasn't very critical or maybe even that helpful, but for some reason I keep coming back to the chats to talk with people because I enjoy them and I dont want that to change.

denver_ball

In regards to my last post, I'm in no way saying that EA was better when we had other administrators. I think IE is doing an excellent job and can only admire him for the effort he's put into this site. Without him, EA wouldn't exist, and knowing how much work it can be, for so VERY little return, I'm not even certain why he's doing it. EA has changed, but then I've changed, too. What interests me when I first came to EA no longer has the same appeal it did then.

Friendly,

OMG,

I didn't look at it as too friendly here at the beginning. The battle has been to help people. I know I offended people here when they first came here.

You cannot always help people by being their friend. You have to say what you think. After that, you know each other and THEN you become friends...

True friends can say almost anything to each other and remain friends.

I want to leave this thought for this discussion...

If you hear things that make you uncomfortable on the good 'ol E.A. it may NOT be because people are less friendly.

It may be actually because they comfortable enough with their friends here to SAY what's on their mind and how they REALLY feel.

First: My thanks to Paolo, the Dark Lord of the Sith, for enlightening me about the history of the EA. May his light saber never lose its charge.

I'm strictly a newcomer, so I cannot comment about the past of the EA vs. the present. However, back in the 1980's I ran a pioneering message board and chatroom on a minicomputer via dialups. Most of our users had Teletype machines that ran at 110-baud (clunkety, clunk, clunk). We had our share of troubles with hackers and obnoxious posters back then, so the problems of the EA are not new for me.

One thing is quite clear about EA - it is a group of VERY diverse people and interests. I am amazed that the EA can function at all, given the extreme range of interests.

For such a diverse group to remain functional requires acceptance of ALL points of view. Clearly there is a wide gap in opinion and experience between (say) the TG folks and the fantasy folks. In real life the TG folks have to face discrimination by the straight world. I find it refreshing that on the EA most of us (TG or straight) manage to be non-discrimnatory.

However, there are also a few folks in the real world who delight in causing trouble for others. These persons should be identified and booted from the group ASAP. The problem arises when a misunderstanding causes someone to be tagged as a troublemaker when they are not.

Text messaging cannot convey true feelings or emotions (despite the use of emoticons). There is also the cloak of anonimity that electronic communication provides. The troublemaker or hacker will take advantage of this.

There must be some sort of dictatorial committee or manager to oversee operations. However, that person (or persons) absolutely must be fair to all the users and be free of bias. Not an easy task.

All I can say for right now is, "Keep up the good work."

I haven't had a very long experience of EA, but I can say that I haven't seen very much flaming going on. Well, the tone is sometimes harsh in "The deep dark cellar" or in "Political discussions", but there are warnings about that.

I have seen the odd message snubbing somebody new, but so far that has been single occassions were, I think, it hasn't been the intention to snubb anyone.

But I can say this - lack of moderation can corrupt and destroy a forum just as quick and just as utterly as overly active moderation can. What I see most of the time in forums where I hang out is a lot of very insensitive remarks about other peoples dreams, kinks, ideas and so on. It's a big world of "my kink is okey, but yours is bloody insane you sick bastard!"

A lot of that comes about when the moderators aren't active enough. And, when they finally show up and try to draw a line, the screaming begins: "I was just expressing my view!! Censorship!!" (Never mind that those 'views' hurt people...)

My impression is that this place is far from that.

Still, I read the same posts as anyone else and, most of the time, I read a lot of the topics even if they aren't of a personal interest to me. I can't think of any reason why perceptions would differ that much. (Except of course over such a long period of time as Paolo describe. And the personal conversation moderator-to-moderated involved in that.)

I don't think my words will change anyone elses perception 180°. But I hope I can reassure some of you that EA indeed still can be a pleasant and welcome experience!

Moderation is though. I tried it once on a mailinglist and grew disgusted after a very short while. No one else wanted that ungreatful task, and in the end the mailinglist was disbanded entirely instead. Maybe that is why I'd rather tolerate a moderator that makes the occational misstake then the alternative.

I think the wind was knocked out of the EA sails after the last great hack and we are still recovering. Much writing was lost and that hurt many of us. When the EA was down I realized how important it was to my life and how much I needed my community. Several of us tried to rewrite what was important to us but our posts did not have the same fire as when originally written. In some ways I have distanced myself emotionally from the EA to protect myself from the disappointment of losing the community. So I am wondering as a member if I am as friendly?

Moderators can affect the mood of the message boards but members also play a part. I have had a run in with one mod and still carry some resentment. Yes that is my issue and my problem. I need to rise above that and enjoy my community. I try not to write anything in response that I would not say to the same person if they were sitting accross from me. I think members should use the same manners they would use in polite society on the message boards. We can express our opinions in ways to share or to incite.

There are fantasy posts that I read and think "what the hell". I am sure some of my posts have caused the same reaction from others. Our issues in day to day life can not be expressed freely. People should be able to share freely on the EA and not be attacked as they might be from the general public. My very first feelings when posting and being welcomed by members of the EA was of safety and acceptance. We need to bring that back for all.