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There is a thread on this forum titled "Why do men want castration?", and some things on there made me start thinking.

As I said before, I don't think that castration fantasies, fetishes, and desires are a gay thing or a straight thing. There seem to be a number of gay men who have castration fantasies, fetishes, and desires, and also a number of straight men who have them as well.

Many men and women who are homosexual (gays and lesbians) claim their homosexuality is inborn. They are homosexual because they were born that way. I guess then those of us who are heterosexual (straight) are that way because we were born heterosexual. That's what started me to think.

Trans-sexuals and those with medical problems like testicle pain etc are a different situation. But most of the men who sexually have castration fantasies and fetishes are probably sexually submissive. Most men who are masters and most women who are mistresses and dominatrices are probably sexually dominant.

If sexual orientation (homosexual or heterosexual) is inborn, then could a tendency to be sexually submissive or sexually dominant also be inborn?

For example, I am a straight male who is sexually submissive, and I have strong femdom castration fantasies and fetishes. Could it be that I'm sexually submissive simply because I was born sexually submissive? Could it be that a woman who naturally slips into the role of a dominatrix is sexually dominant because she was born sexually dominant?

I'm not suggesting that some men, both straight and gay, who are born sexually submissive are born with castration fantasies, fetishes, and desires. What I am suggesting is that some men, both straight and gay, who by nature are born sexually submissive, that in their submissiveness they develop sexual fantasies, fetishes, and desires about castration performed on them by someone they would be sexually attracted to who is dominant.

Could it be that castration fantasies, fetishes, and desires come about in submissive men because in their minds, perhaps even in their subconscious minds, they make some kind of connection between being castrated and being sexually dominated?

And could it be that just as sexual orientation (homosexual or heterosexual) is inborn, that sexual submissiveness and sexual dominance are also inborn?

yes, it very well could be.

z

this is shurely true for some people, but some masters and mistresses would say, they want a whole slave or that a real slave has no say about which parts to loose

That a craving for female domination could be inborn is an interesting idea and one I feel my own experience supports, in that despite coming from a 100% "normal" family (in terms of male/female relationship) my submissive tendencies began long before puberty. I went to a private neighborhood primary school in England, which was in a private house, and the owner/(female) principal's bookshelf was available to all. There were some quite old books, one on China, and I recall reading about barges being towed up the Yangtse river, and goads being used on the men on the towropes (who were cheaper than animals), and fantasizing at the age of eight (I was fully literate by them) about being one of the goaded tow men. Granted there were no women in the scene described by the book, but to this day one of my fantasies is to be the invited victim to a female "goading party."

Submissives or Elsewise:

Just beware of that nun in red. Like all nuns she can be lethal with a ruler against your knuckles but I heard this one is armed with something that looks like a gun. Thank God I missed out on having her as my teacher in school. (I also missed out on the "sarge", --nah, nah, nanah, nah. But then I did end up having the "space invader" and the "bookkeeper".) Actually this gives me an idea about becoming a dom. I heard once folks are willing to give up a few bucks for a good dominatix and all you have to do is be a total bitch using your upper voice and higher power. Oh yes and I have talked others from other religious schools and even non-religious, --seems that you don't have to be a nun afterall as a prerquisite to be total bitch and there may actually proportionately be more bitches outside the nun world. Maybe one should start out with the library. i heard they're still in existance and I do seem to recall being kicked out of one when just a little boy for giggling so hard along with a few girls at something that I just cannot remember anymore.

devi (imported) wrote: Wed May 09, 2007 9:34 am --seems that you don't have to be a nun afterall as a prerquisite to be total bitch and there may actually proportionately be more bitches outside the nun world. Maybe one should start out with the library. i heard they're still in existance and I do seem to recall being kicked out of one when just a little boy for giggling so hard along with a few girls at something that I just cannot remember anymore.

Good grief! My mother was a librarian. Maybe that explains it.

devi (imported) wrote: Wed May 09, 2007 9:34 am Submissives or Elsewise:

Just beware of that nun in red. Like all nuns she can be lethal with a ruler against your knuckles but I heard this one is armed with something that looks like a gun. Thank God I missed out on having her as my teacher in school. (I also missed out on the "sarge", --nah, nah, nanah, nah. But then I did end up having the "space invader" and the "bookkeeper".) Actually this gives me an idea about becoming a dom. I heard once folks are willing to give up a few bucks for a good dominatix and all you have to do is be a total bitch using your upper voice and higher power. Oh yes and I have talked others from other religious schools and even non-religious, --seems that you don't have to be a nun afterall as a prerquisite to be total bitch and there may actually proportionately be more bitches outside the nun world. Maybe one should start out with the library. i heard they're still in existance and I do seem to recall being kicked out of one when just a little boy for giggling so hard along with a few girls at something that I just cannot remember anymore.

This sweet nun WAS once a teacher, at a private university out east somewhere. Used to terrorize fresh(wo)men with discussions about what I do to/with slackers..... At least I DID get paid for it; substitute dominatrix bitch, ya think?

Can someone who's not crazy (bi-polar, at least) function well as BOTH dom and sub? Or, am I just disoriented???

You sound pretty crazy to me!:D But then I could be the one who's disoriented!

I can call myself partly submissive, which means I've never been in favor of master and slave stuff, never wanted to be totally dominated by a female except one particularity - I'm into female dominance through abusing that particular part of my body - my testicles. And "abuse" is the very right word for my case - not simple torture. One can torture someone's toe but hardly you can call it "toe abuse". But there's undoubtly "ball abuse" and that's my sort of dominance and submission.

For me i have always been submissive and it could be i was ment to be this way.I feel fortuniant that i have a Domina who understands how i want and need to please.Interseting post indeed.

Perhaps I have been searching for too complex an answer to my questions of why I have

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes.

Maybe the answer is quite simple and I developed them simply because I was born a certain way with certain tendencies.

Could the answers really be this simple? I am a straight heterosexual male because I was born a male who is straight and heterosexual. I am sexually submissive

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am because I was born sexually submissive.

Because of being by nature sexually submissive, my mind developed my

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes

because to my mind being forced to undergo surgical castration performed by a woman then forced to serve her as her personal eunuch slave, is to my mind the ultimate in male sexual submission to women.

Could that really be it? Could it be that simple? I'm a straight heterosexual male who is sexually submissive to women simply because I was born that way. Out of being that way, my mind developed these

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes,

and that's why I have the

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes

I have.

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Fri May 11, 2007 6:34 am Perhaps I have been searching for too complex an answer to my questions of why I have

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Fri May 11, 2007 6:34 am 1178578380]
femdom castration fantasies and fetishes.

Maybe the answer is quite simple and I developed them simply because I was born a certain way with certain tendencies.

Could the answers really be this simple? I am a straight heterosexual male because I was born a m
[/quote]
ale who is straight and heterosexual. I

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Fri May 11, 2007 6:34 am am sexually submissive [quote="I Worship Women (imported)" time=11785

78380]
because I was born sexually submissive.

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Fri May 11, 2007 6:34 am

Because of being by nature sexually submissive, my mind developed my

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes

because to my mind being forced to undergo surgical castration performed by a woman then forced to serve her as her personal eunuch slave, is to my mind the ultimate in male sexual submission to women.

Could that re
[/quote]
ally be it? Could it be that simple? I'm a straight heterosexual male who is sexually submissive to women simply because I was born that way. Out of being that way, my mind developed these

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes,

and that's why I have the

I Worship Women (imported) wrote: Tue May 08, 2007 8:53 am femdom castration fantasies and fetishes

I have.

I would not rule it out. Your ideations are extreme but in principle they are NOT unique...

...why don't you pose the question to Jesus?

A-1 (imported) wrote: Fri May 11, 2007 12:20 pm I would not rule it out. Your ideations are extreme but in principle they are NOT unique...

...why don't you pose the question to Jesus?

Jesus A.

or

Jesus H.

????

As an aside, I very highly doubt the theory of inborn sub/dom behaviors.

Except in childhood, I think that I have always been dominant. But who really knows at this time. Women did excredible things for me while we were making love.

I find this a very interesting question, and after some thought to this, I do believe people are born with a disposition to be submissive or dominate. I do believe people are born to be either straight, or gay, or bi, or transgendered, so I really have no reason not to think that people are born submissive or dominate.

I think you could be born with such desires yes. But more-so I think perhaps your life experiences and the way your personality is shaped through childhood is a bigger determining factor. As for myself, I get a huge kick out of being dominated, be it by men or women, doesn't matter too much. I think I've always been a very self-contained person and sometimes quite egotistical, I think maybe it's a way to balance out the extremes. You often see men in high power being into submission, and why not? They have to be in charge all day long, making important choices and deciding people's fates, so at the end of the day it's probably nice to hand over control to someone else. Atleast, that's my experience. But perhaps genetics play a part as well.

Interesting question. I recently posted a new thread on this very theme, though the original post here has anticipated my interest...

I find I've always had a fantasy about being a slave, going back to my early teens. Originally this probably had no sexual components, though after puberty it did acquire some. Some twenty years or so ago I'd probably have been ashamed to admit this, but now I"d like to work through the implications of this self-conception or fantasy visualization...

Without wanting to offend anyone's religious sensibilities, this seems almost identical with the mythos of Genesis: a naive and naked couple in the Garden of Eathly Delights...in some sense, a "Golden Age" fantasy. in which the lions may lay down with the lambs, without being mauled.

In some sense I think this fantasy is a wish to abrogate personal responsibility in a complex and often confusing society.

I guess I must be a "submissive", because I can't imagine being dominant over or inflicting pain on another. I really don't know what that says about me. I guess that's all I want to say for now...comments anyone?

While I largely agree with most who have posted that there is something in our genetic make up at birth that would give us a propensity to be dominant or submissive, gay or straight, I also believe there must be life experiences that reenforce these tendencies and build on them. You can be passive through out life without becoming sexually submissive, but if you have tendencies to be submissive and in your early life experiences you are dominated by someone sexually and you discover an extra pleasure that reenforces that tendency, you might seek out more such experience. Having a dominate personality might make you a leader, sucessful businessman or quarterback on your football team without making you want to dominate a submissive sexually.

I think it's in those early dramatic life experiences, that we have all been through, we discover our genitic in born tendencies and decide that they bring us pleasure and enjoyment and we choose to follow these tndencies and develope them.

Mebbe so, but, I seem to be inconsistent with the pattern shown by many of those who have posted in this thread. I have had castration fantasies ever since the onset of puberty . They have nothing to do with domination and submission.

In my personal relationships, I have always been dominant, some would call me "domineering" . However, I am gay and in my sexual activity I have usually been a bottom. I have always been a fellator who gets little satisfaction out of receiving oral sex.

When I have been in a situation in which I had to submit to the will of another person, (as in the service) I have been extremely unhappy. I cannot even conceive of a person's voluntarily becoming a slave to another. If anyone tried to enslave me, I would kill him/her.

I hate stories in which some nutless (BEFORE castration) wimp begs someone to enslave him. The thought of femdom makes me see red (the colour of blood, hers). Yet, I like to abuse my testicles and enjoy having someone else do it for me.

Most of the over 100 castration stories I have written are told from the viewpoint of the "victim", not the perpetrator (unless they be one and the same). Although I have long desired to be castrated, the most important reason why I have not done so is that I would then not be able to enjoy abusing my testicles.

I am sure that I was born homosexual. I have NEVER had any sexual interest in females. Nothing that I can remember ever happened to dissuade me from such any interest. When I first began to be interested in sex, I was immediately attracted to other males.

I grew up in a single-parent household and never experienced male domination until my twenties. I resented it just as I resented my mother's and grandmother's efforts at dominating me. As a child, I was weak, sickly, and timid. I grew up into an arrogant domineering adult. Was this a reaction against my childhood ?

I have no idea why I abused my testicles and why I was interested in castration from about the age of 13 onward. I don't know if it is at all relevant, but , at that age and for many years later, I masturbated extremely frequently, 6-8 times daily and most of my masturbation fantasies involved castration.

After I discovered, to my horror, that I am one of "those", I desired to be castrated in order to "cure" me of both "excessive" masturbation and of homosexuality.

I don't think that the above makes any kind of consistent pattern and my experience does not seem to correspond to that of the others who have posted on this thread.

It's hard to tease out the biological (genetic) v. the societal influences.

Bagoas: I appreciate the classical reference to Alexander the Great's eunuch catamite, though your comments seem to reject the passive role this avatar impies...

Myself, honestly, I'd rather be totally passive. I don't know why.

Michael