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Hello to anyone on this list.

I am a new comer here, just joined. I am looking for others who think/feel like I do. I was castrasted for prostate cancer and found, to my grreat surprise, that I rather liked the psychological effects. Am I alone or are there others like me?

tadpole (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:43 pm Hello to anyone on this list.

I am a new comer here, just joined. I am looking for others who think/feel like I do. I was castrasted for prostate cancer and found, to my grreat surprise, that I rather liked the psychological effects. Am I alone or are there others like me?

Oh, there are quite a few like you, and some are here in the Eunuch Archives. Of course, since we live in a society which worships sex, not too many men will admit that they are quite happy without the testosterone powered sex drive or aggressiveness. So, yes, once they experience "The Eunuch Calm", many men do not resume testosterone HRT, even if it was safe. (Of course, for prostate cancer treatment, no testosterone is allowed, and in fact they may also shut down your adrenal glands with drugs like Csodex. Have they done that yet?)



Oh, I am age 57, castrated at age 56. Totally non-sexual nowadays. Formerly heterosexual, masturbating once a day right up to the date of castration.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:43 pm Hello to anyone on this list.

I am a new comer here, just joined. I am looking for others who think/feel like I do. I was castrasted for prostate cancer and found, to my grreat surprise, that I rather liked the psychological effects. Am I alone or are there others like me?

Welcome Taddy-

Ahh, yes. Sex sells, bought not everyone is buying.

-plezherus

Hey, Tadpole, and welcome!

I am a relative newcomer here myself. For reasons I have never been able to understand I did not find this site until last fall (Thanks, Paolo, for your post in AEQ).

At any rate I think you will find everyone here friendly and supportive. That's what this site is about, in my experience: SUPPORT! We are gay and straight, eunuchs and eunuch wannabe's, nullo's and nullo wannabes, and everything in between. Enjoy, Tadpole! I know I have certainly done that since I first arrived!

Welcome to the zoo, tadpole.

You'll find that there a few here who aren't crazed sex fiends!

(But there's nothing wrong with that, either ... this is a good place for them to be, in the long run I think.)

Feel free to post away and enjoy.

:p

tadpole (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:43 pm Hello to anyone on this list.

I am a new comer here, just joined. I am looking for others who think/feel like I do. I was castrasted for prostate cancer and found, to my grreat surprise, that I rather liked the psychological effects. Am I alone or are there others like me?

Hi - glad to hear from you. I also have prostate cancer. At present I am receiving implants of LH-RH hormone to bring my testosterone levels down into the castrate range prior to starting radio-therapy on March 4. I still have my balls but, like you, I am liking the effect that "chemical castration" has had on me so far and I am looking forward to being surgically castrated after I have completed the radio-therapy.

I should like to hear more of your experiences. If you would like to email me privately, my email address is:

[email protected]

look forward to hearing from you

Terry

(England)

Well after a day I finally made my way back here. It took me forever to figure out how to use the passwords etc. In any case, I am deligthed with all of the kind folks who replies to my "newcomer" post.

Here is a long follow up:

I believe that I am unusual for your community in that I never considered myself anything but a male until I got chemically castrated for prostate cancer. However, I am most assuredly delighted now not to be a male. I have been off to the library studying the history, anthropology, and psychology of eunuchs for some months now. All of that has been to better understand what is going on in my head. Hopefully, eventually, I would like to see if I can help others with prostate cancer live with, and even possibly enjoy, the side effects of some of their treatments. This requires demystifying and devilifying the concept of the eunuch.

I have been going back and forth over this weekend between some prostate cancer listservs and reading the postings on TSDoItYourselfers. It is ABSOLUTELY fascinating to see these two communities of people who are taking the EXACT same gender-associated and gender-altering drugs, with TOTALLY different perspectives on them.

In any case I have a whole slew of questions that I hope you and others on this list can help me answer.

1. Am I on the right list?

2. If not, which list(s) should I be on? There are too many lists/chatrooms out there. I really want to find the best one or two to track. And they are...???

3. How do people in the TS community view the term "eunuch"? I see myself as "coming out" as a eunuch. But I have found that most people either have no idea what that term means including, believe it or not, a FtM TS who I met and who have never heard the term, plus my older daughter, who is a 2nd year gender studies major in college!

4. I am not into self-mutilation, but I am medically and mentally a eunuch. How will the world see me, when I come as a eunuch? My doctors and sisters and several very close friends (my "cyber-seraglio") support me in doing this, but what sort of reactions will I get from others? In China there used to be pogroms against the eunuchs. If we had more exposure now, what would we face? Would we be endlessly marginalized--presumed to be sexual deviants--when, ironically, we are at the other end of the sexual spectrum?

I have been trying to figure out the eunuch.org websites, to get some guidance. And this maybe the place I belong, but the focus here seems to be largely on anatomy, fantasy, sexuality. And I am finding it hard to sort through all that is here.

5. I have decided that the nearest thing to what I am (since I am not into home surgery and in general don't want any more surgery) is neither F, M, trans, FtM nor MtF...rather I am instead a simple, modern-day eunuch. I want to find others like myself to correspond with. But I can't spend five hours a day in chat rooms. I have 2+ fulltime careers right now. And with a need to keep on top of prostate cancer, I am pushed to the limit. I thus really need some guidance. Where, if anywhere is, my community?

6. Many people on eunuch.org praise Dr. Spector. But I have seen his name in association with Victor Cheney. And that scares me. What do people think of Victor Cheney's writing? [Is he still alive? His email account is closed out.] His views scare the hell out of me. He makes me feel like I must be a pedophile just because I am happy to be castrated. But am I alone in that view?

7. Is there any incidences of prostate cancer in the MtF TS world? I would guess that it is very low. But it must be grievous when it happens.

8. Who are--if there are any--the real scholars objectively studying the psychology of the modern day eunuch?

I am immensely grateful for all who take the time to reply to this message.

1. Am I on the right list?

Certainly. There's quite a bit of information here and some very informed members

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 2. If not, which list(s) should I be on? There are too many lists/chatrooms out there. I really want to find the best one or two to track. And they are...???

I receive mail from a couple of Yahoo groups, 'eunuch' and 'eunuchs', in addition to this board. I seldom read the usenet group alt.eunuchs.questions anymore. As for any other lists, I don't have the time - nor the inclination really - to read any of them.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 3. How do people in the TS community view the term "eunuch"? I see myself as "coming out" as a eunuch. But I have found that most people either have no idea what that term means including, believe it or not, a FtM TS who I met and who have never heard the term, plus my older daughter, who is a 2nd year gender studies major in college!

I first learned the word 'eunuch' when I was about 9 or so, in church, reading the book of Daniel. It's not really a common word you hear in most conversations these days ... as far as the TS view on eunuchs, I think this sounds like a job for Kelly.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 4. I am not into self-mutilation, but I am medically and mentally a eunuch. How will the world see me, when I come as a eunuch? My doctors and sisters and several very close friends (my "cyber-seraglio") support me in doing this, but what sort of reactions will I get from others? In China there used to be pogroms against the eunuchs. If we had more exposure now, what would we face? Would we be endlessly marginalized--presumed to be sexual deviants--when, ironically, we are at the other end of the sexual spectrum?

Being a eunuch in this day and age doesn't carry the same kind of weight that it once did in other cultures of the past. There are no exclusive eunuch positions in government anymore, and no harems to guard or jobs that require one to be a eunuch to fill said job. It's mainly a medical issue now, and even if anyone knows, rational adults that is, I don't think there's going to be any big deal made about it. Statistics - wherever they get those from - say that there are a great many men who lose their balls each year for medical reasons, yet you don't see those men on TV, on the news, in the paper, whatever, making a show of being ostracized or hated such as gays and lesbians or other groups that aren't "normal." I just love that word, "normal" .... Anyway, if anyone should find out that you're missing a set of testicles, I don't think it's going to impact your everyday life much.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am I have been trying to figure out the eunuch.org websites, to get some guidance. And this maybe the place I belong, but the focus here seems to be largely on anatomy, fantasy, sexuality. And I am finding it hard to sort through all that is here.

There IS a great deal of fantasy here, which I believe harbors a safe outlet for fantasy as well as a forum for discussing real issues. The story archive, of couse, is fantasy, but you will find some interesting and well informed people on the message boards.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 5. I have decided that the nearest thing to what I am (since I am not into home surgery and in general don't want any more surgery) is neither F, M, trans, FtM nor MtF...rather I am instead a simple, modern-day eunuch. I want to find others like myself to correspond with. But I can't spend five hours a day in chat rooms. I have 2+ fulltime careers right now. And with a need to keep on top of prostate cancer, I am pushed to the limit. I thus really need some guidance. Where, if anywhere is, my community?

Let's hope you find some friends here with similar situations, tadpole. If nothing else, search Yahoo and the other big web servers on your subject, make a few posts. Install an instant messenger system like MSN or AIM or something. Forget ICQ, it's a RAM hog and nothing but a system choker now. The only way to meet people online is go out and look for them!

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 6. Many people on eunuch.org praise Dr. Spector. But I have seen his name in association with Victor Cheney. And that scares me. What do people think of Victor Cheney's writing? [Is he still alive? His email account is closed out.] His views scare the hell out of me. He makes me feel like I must be a pedophile just because I am happy to be castrated. But am I alone in that view?

I found Cheney's views skewed, his books poorly written and lacking credible sources. Some people praise Dr. Spector, while others would just as soon have his head on a plate. Spector has since sort of retired from doing the surgeries, and has a younger fellow working for him now.

As for feeling like a pedophile since you're happy to be a eunuch, that's not really a valid comparison. Having sexual urges towards children and simply not wanting your balls for whatever reasons are not one in the same. There is some controversy over castration of sex offenders, but it's not an automatic procedure and many are violently opposed to it. I've read several cases where the defendant even asked for it, and was refused.

You also shouldn't feel strangely about having been castrated, as you mention. Of course, you will feel different, but as far as feeling like a criminal, or dirty or something? Nonsense. Toss the Cheney books out the window and search up some reading from a credible author. You probably wont' find much written up about modern day eunuchs; what is out there is mostly history. You can find, on something like Amazon.com with a good search engine, the books by Peter Scholz (Poitr) and Gary Taylor, Eunuchs & Castrati, a cultural History & Castration: A Brief History of Western civilization. The latter is pretty dull reading though, but it does have a few good social points on the metaphorical as well as actual castration and related subjects in modern society.

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am 7. Is there any incidences of prostate cancer in the MtF TS world? I would guess that it is very low. But it must be grievous when it happens.

I doubt it. Hello, Kelly and Pippa? Advice here?

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:18 am . Who are--if there are any--the real scholars objectively studying the psychology of the modern day eunuch?

Got me grabbed. Dunno, really, other than some of us here.

Thanks for the reply.

Clearly I should clarify one thing. When I talk about "coming out as a eunuch" I am talking about something far more public than telling a few friends that I have been chemical castrated. I really mean publicly coming out. I have, in fact, drafted an essay titled "Coming out as a Eunuch," which I have submitted for publication. If it doesn't get accepted where I submitted it, it will get accepted somewhere. I say that because I make part of my living writing and publishing essays. [Have others out there published similar essays in the straight press? If so, could I get reprints?]

I see a case for the" third gender" perspective developed by Serena Nanda in her books, as well as by others in the G. Herdt ed. volume "Third Sex/Third Gender" [As an aside, have others read that book? What do you think of it? Do you know about the new book by S. Tougher about to come on eunuchs in history "and beyond"? Has anyone read it in preprint? As an aside in an aside, I get the feeling that our classicist colleagues write about eunuchs, but don't talk to them (us) very often.]

I also see a case for selling the view that there are some special powers and privileges to being a eunuch, which--if one opens one's minds to it--are much better than viewing oneself as a crippled male, which is about how most prostate cancer patients view themselves.

To make this case, I have to go public. But as you can see from my last email, I am starting to get a bit scared of what sort of reaction I might get.

Dioes any of that make sense?

I didnt' know that S. Tougher had published a book. I've read some of his stuff online at his site, lost the link long ago to a HD crash though. As I recall, he's a college prof. somewhere. I'll look for it, though.

As for publishing an essay, well, stranger things have been published. I, for one, would look forward to reading it. Perhaps after it's published it would make a good addition to the Non-Fiction board. I think you'll find a lot of agreement here that such articles SHOULD be published and made available to the public.

When I experienced my own medical problems a few years back, the one last final infection that shut down my testicles, everyone knew that there was something badly wrong with me. I DID try to avoid the issue of talking about it, but finally got disgusted and just came right out with it. Pretty much everyone who knows me knows about it now. The first general reaction was one of stunned silence, shock, and a lot of pity (from the men), which was - to me - a rather useless emotional reaction. For a few months, it was a fascinating topic, but people tend to adapt to pretty much everything and once the shock of it wore off, it wasn't a problem. It was never actually a problem, but in the beginning, it was certainly a great deal of explaining to do in the fact that I was of the opinion that I'd just as soon be castrated and be done with all the problems. THAT'S a real show stopper, right there. But again, people adapt.

I really don't what to advise, as far as how anyone and everyone, John Q. Public per say, would view you or anyone in your essay. I really don't. We seem to live in a society that is locked into the 2 gender norm, male or female, and we often find ourselves wondering, "Is that a woman or a man?" when we see a rather Androgynous person. I think it must be instilled into our little psyches as children, and anything that deviates from it is, at least for a while, interesting if not fascinating.

But as to how anyone would view YOU, in your 'coming out' with it, I don't know. I wish I did.

Dear Sister,

I personally completely accept the fact that gender is a spectrum. As a biologist, I have long head the view that there are not two completely separate and absolutely non-overlapping patterns for the various sexually dimorphic neural centers in our brains.

However, won't you agree that, as a logical progression, we might ask the more straight and limited world to accept a third gender before we go for x >>> infinite genders?

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:34 am I also see a case for selling the view that there are some special powers and privileges to being a eunuch, which--if one opens one's minds to it--are much better than viewing oneself as a crippled male, which is about how most prostate cancer patients view themselves.

Tadpole-

I would have to agree here. Being chemically castrated has been a boon career wise for me. As a young testosterone driven male, I was kept from the power positions. Operating on a self serving sex drive, seperates the young male from those who have established positions in organizations.

Most older people have settled down and see typical youthful male sexual behavior as a problem. Once I forfieted my biological sexuality, through chemical castration and expressed this new sexuality, I was viewed as safe and excepted into the power circle of my profession. Since sex up untill that time was basically crappy, frustrating, a huge hassle, or non existant, I feel really blessed. It's taking a piece of crap car to the dealer and getting a brand new Porsche.

You said-

tadpole (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:34 am To make this case, I have to go public. But as you can see from my last email, I am starting to get a bit scared of what sort of reaction I might get.

A few years back the gay community wanted a parade. I live in a fairly conservative town with a state college. Anyway the parade went on as the gay community had planned. Instead of a conservative family oriented theme like "Gays are your brothers, aunts, parent etc", They brought out a ensemble of drag queens, transexuals, and rather radically sexual people. The reaction was that people in the town became hostile to homosexuality and viewed it as a threat to their basic family values. The school pushed the woman's center in with the multicultural center and basically neutralized the motivating force behind exploring various gender roles and more modern ways of expressing sexuality. I'm sure this is similar to most places across the country except maybe San Francisco. So I would have to agree with Krister. If something works toward the continuence of the species it will ultimately be maintained. It just has not dawned on us what will promote the contnuence of the species.

The fact that you were nonvoluntarily castrated, then found the change positive, works in your favor. Orienting yourself around family, I would think, would also help.

While I think that the people who facillitate the archive are basically sound individuals, with humanitarian objectives, I think that the public would latch on to the sexually extreme message and fail to pay any heed to the human experience. They would want the "Get up horsey bit". As soon as the "new position" dulled, it would be time to cast off the freak show.

There is a great group of guys who lost there balls to prostate cancer. They are mostly middle aged married men. They have a web site, and are much more normal than well..say...a freak such as myself. I think there name is "men without balls".

Basically you would be selling a sexual message to the public to titalate the masses for a brief moment. If that is what you would like to achieve then great. I'm all for capitalizing. I just hope the archive gets it's fair piece of the pie.

Best of luck,

-plezherus

Dear Krister and Plezherus,

Thank you for the time you have taken to reply to my long email.

I was discouraged by Plezhurus's comment that to publically "come out as a eunuch" would "

plezherus (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:53 pm be selling a sexual message to the public to titalate the masses for a brief moment...[and]...if that is what you would like to achieve then great.

"

Clearly I want to do more than that. I want to show prostate cancer patients that there is a positive way to look at the side effects of the drugs they are taking.

But I also recognize that the public's image of what it is to be a eunuch is often a mythical construct related to slaves and harems. Awhile ago I corresponded with the anthropologist Serena Nanda on this point. She wrote a nice book called "Gender Diversity" and is open to the idea of multiple genders. But she, too, thought that the term "eunuch" came was such historical baggage that it shouldn't or couldn't be resurrected in any positive light.

The truth is I could probably make my argument without ever using the term "eunuch." However, there may be no quicker or more honest way of getting an audience than to use that term. Of course, the whole exercise would be a waste though, if, as you guys seem to suggest, to come out as eunuch is to turn myself into a freak, who gets a audience but not the audience's respect.

Perhaps I should show you what I have written so far on this topic. Could I send you two my draft essay for comments?

Tadpole-

I would very much like to read what you have written. Perhaps freeing up men who have had such a event would allow them to participate in open sexual relationships. Taking the shame, or embarassment away from such an expirience could only help open up a completely neglected facit of modern gender roles and sexuality.

I, however, am no expert on sexuality, or even sex. I have battled my way through gender barriers and learned to capitalize on the modern gender role I have established for myself. I will provide you whatever feedback I have, unless of coarse if I'm busy...Spring is coming up you know.

Best of Luck

-plezherus

Dear Krister, I have privately sent you my draft essay. Plezherus, I would like to do the same but do not have your email address. How do we make private contact?

---------------

The following could be considered a new thread or it could be an extension of my new comer thread. In either case, i hope I get some feedback from it. I have posted it on "men without balls", but after reding what was there, I realize that that group is largely the antithesis of teh position I hole (i.e., they are mostly trying to conquer the loss of endogenous testosterone).

I was castrated a year ago for the treatment of prostate cancer. The surprise (to me at least) is that I have quite enjoyed being off of testosterone and am now seriously considering going public as a eunuch.

I am curious to know if anyone knows of any first person essays that have been published in the mainline press promoting the privileged perspective of the world that one has as a eunuch. I am thinking here of essays along the lines of "Coming out as a Eunuch." I see many postings here and on other websites (plus on many TS home pages) where people discuss their experiences of living without testosterones. However has anyone put any of these essays into the straight press? [I didn't see anything in the eunuch.org archives but perhaps I didn't look careefully enough.]

If so, could I get the reference?

If not, why do you think this is so? Is it because we all fear what the public will think of us? Is it because we see no value in educating the public on how our minds work once castrated?

Are there others on this list who publically call themselves eunuchs? If so, how far have you gone with the concept? I, for one, have formed a cyber-seraglio, which cares and nutures me. I'm also fiercely protective off the members of my harem. But am I the only eunuch who has done that? Or have others on this list independently done the same?

Lastly do you think the term 'eunuch' can be effectively resurrected so that one could be a public eunuch and respected, as, say, during the Ming dynasty or the Byzantine Empire? Or is the term so bizarrely mixed with images of mutilation and enslavement that it bares too much baggage to be worth any

attempt at such a resurrection?

All thoughts on these matters would be greatly appreciated.

Dear Tadpole-

Yeah, please send me your views, my address is on my profile.

I will try to answer your queery as best I can.

I am out in a way at my place of employment. Many of my coworkers are led to believe that I have some problem with erectile function. I decided this would be the best way to package my sexuality since the truth would be unacceptable. I do not consider myself a eunuch, being that I am chemically castrated. The bond I share with my female coworkers gets stronger daily. Soon I will get my home in a town away from work.

You ellude to the hareem. Do you seek woman for your affirmation? Do women protect you, feed you or otherwise support you? I deliberately avoid the whole male on male sub/dom paradigm. I think that duality is a distraction. It is interesting how we can shape our worlds when we decide how we want to live.

-plezherus

Plezurus,

See the new thread on harems.