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One of the more frequent comments made by those with low testosterone, who have subnormal levels of the hormone either because of a glandular disorder, because they are taking androcur or a similar drug, or because they have gone through orchiectomy; is that they no longer feel sex urges, or simply have no more interest in sex. And, of course, for a considerable number of those with low testosterone levels, that was what they wanted when they opted for chemical or surgical reduction of the hormone--the idea was a reduction of libido. And it seems as though some feel that, since they have no pressing sex urge any longer, their sexual activity has been terminated, perhaps permanently.

But, when you think about it, the urge is really just the motivation to engage in sex. The actual responses and pleasure which people experience, come from sensations that, at least in substantial measure, aren't the result of the effects of testosterone on the body. And a lot of people--not necessarily in the Archive, but in the general population--say that, for them, the desire to engage in sexual activity with someone, is something that they feel even though they may not have strong urges which impel them to it. I can remember becoming interested in a few girls a considerable period of time before puberty. I didn't have any urge to engage in sex with them, but I was attracted to them. And I've read that research in the last few years has shown that young boys and girls are attracted to each other to some extent in the preadolescent period, when they (presumably) aren't actually interested in sex. That is to say, sexual attraction may be part of the human makeup, exclusive of sexual development and high hormone levels.

All of which makes me wonder if the lack of sexual activity among a lot of those with low testosterone, is really largely a matter of conditioning and the acceptance of social or societal expectations, rather than something which is unavoidable because of the low hormone levels. Simply the fact that someone becomes accustomed to engaging in sex when he (or she) feels a strong urge, doesn't mean that a person can't develop a behavior pattern of engaging in sexual activity without feeling the urges which usually instigate sex. And the acts ought to be enjoyable, because the sensations are still there, even if there was no strong arousal beforehand. If the posts I recall reading were accurate, many eunuchs, if not most, can still attain erection, and that's all that's required to make intromission possible. But, even if someone is impotent, there are other tactile elements of sex which can still be engaged in.

Actually, I tend to wonder if the loss of the ability to erect, the atrophy of the penis, and difficulty in reaching orgasm, are simply the result of disuse of the organs involved, rather than something which inevitably is a byproduct of lowered testosterone levels. If someone doesn't feel the urge to engage in sex, he doesn't get involved in sexual activity, and the organs are underutilized in that respect, or aren't used at all. It seems a general principle, that any part of the body which isn't used for its regular purpose, will get "out of tone" and it seems that that is possible with regard to the genitals of someone who isn't engaging in sex. Some of the posts I have read, indicate that the atrophy of the penis occurs because nocturnal erections cease after testosterone levels drop. But, for most individuals, it would seem that the organ can be erected through manual stimulation. Perhaps if somebody followed a regimen of stimulating his organ to erection several times a day, the penis wouldn't atrophy, or wouldn't atrophy as much as appears to be typical.

Anyway, my point is, sexual activity is possible without sex urges, and I would think that someone who wants to engage in sex, could do it, to some extent, regardless of a lack of testosterone. Maybe attitude is as big a barrier to enjoying this sort of thing, as physiological changes are. For those who wanted lower testosterone levels because they wanted to reduce their libido, of course that's their choice, and they may feel more at peace with the world and with themselves in that situation. But I'd think that there are many others who still want to have the fulfillment of engaging in sex, and perhaps are artificially limiting their potential for it.

in my experience, my sexuality regressed to a pre-puberty level when i was on chems. I, er, comforted my self a few times a week still, normally not to any type of orgasm, which was not a driving need, jsut the comfort action... Often i did it when stressed. After a my chems had really worked their effect i met several people who i had sexual encounters with, mostly for the campanionship, as i hate to be alone i find now that my T level is under control.. The funy thing is i was technically a virgin (I was only 24) before my chems, i had never had relations with a woman or man, but after it i was more driven to seek championship rather than sex. During my castrate time i never started physical things as i just wanted the mental connection.. I used caverject and other help to allow me to preform, or used other ways besides intercourse, which i still consider sex in all its meaning..

because all my real sexual experience comes from during my castration level T period, I am having a different experience than most guys. I never fully accepted that intercourse is all there is, i am still fine to not have it as long as there is another means of... closeness..

physically my TRT sexuality experiences are very different than my castrate experience, things are more intense and im more focused on the physical, release is stronger and more powerful, but i can only do it once now before recovering.. I dont need caverject or anything else anymore... weather this all is good or bad remains to be seen, but my GF wants to be physically wanted as well as our mental connection, but dosnt every woman?

Pre castrate (before i went on depo-provera or lupron depot) my hormone level was at such an extreme (3100ng/dl) i never thought of closeness and therefore never dated. I only thought of myself. This is the other extreme of the spectrum. I was actually scared of myself at this level, and what i might do...

I think sexuality is more than just the hormonal driven release, i also think its part of the human experience. We are social creatures driven to love each other, we need someone in our lives to make it worth while.

You're on to something, Beau. I think it can be any combination of emotional physical or mental stimulation or needs. I've known women who were brought up in strict evangelical Christian doctrine. Even though their bodies were flooded with hormones, and they were emotionally into a man, the mental aspect - their learned senses of morals: "Women aren't supposed to do those things" and, "Women aren't supposed to enjoy that, even with their husbands" can cause them to be what we called Frigid.

I've known men just like that. I've heard Baptists swear that lust is a sin, even if it's a man lusting for his own wife. Sex = Sin in their culture.

SALAMI!

Your point makes much sense and rings of truth.

...except that Baptists are NOT supposed to SWEAR, dammit!

i had a wet dream last night........

Sex wasn't a big interest when I was low. More of an Annoyance. Oh not THAT again. I engaged in sex to the point of orgasm and at best it felt "nice" and my main reaction was Good were done with that for a while.

Going on HRT changed that a lot. The desire came back but the orgasm went from "ho humm" to POW ZOWIE BATMAN!!!!

...

DonFL (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:20 am i had never had relations with a woman or man, but after it i was more driven to seek championship rather than sex.

Ah, the call of the ring is a difficult call to ignore.

I still have interest in sex. I still like looking at attractive men. I enjoy pleasing my partner and the physical closeness. Now I would not have sex just for the sake of sex. My sex drive seems to now be linked to my emotional needs. If I have strong emotions for someone I also have strong physical desires.

I have always been told that libido is mostly mental and that it will decrease little if any when castrated. That doesn't seem to be the case for me. With my current T level, which is probably between 10-50 ng/dl, I have very little to no libido. Sure, I can bring to mind the thoughts that used to get me off - but they don't anymore. I have little to no interest in sex. Sometimes little, most of the time none.

There are times when I try to force myself to have an interest, and it doesn't happen. So if it is just a psychological block that prevents me from having a libido, it is an unconscious one.

homptydumpty (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:00 pm i had a wet dream last night........

Lucky you! As far as I know, I've never had a wet dream!

HairyHarry (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:50 am Lucky you! As far as I know, I've never had a wet dream!

Nor have I. --FLO--

Does wetting the bed in the midst of an alcoholic stupor count, if you have a dream?

kristoff wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:17 am Does wetting the bed in the midst of an alcoholic stupor count, if you have a dream?

No, but if you wet someone else's bed in the midst of an alcoholic stupor it gives you Special bonus points!!!

Being an eunuch now is interesting. I still enjoy sex, but don't think about having it very often. Last night I had a nocturnal erection and woke up with a hot flash, all at the same time. Reading castration fantasy on the EA gives me an erection, but I don't bother to do anything about it afterwards. When my wife is horny and we have a certain male friend over, I hug and kiss her while he masturbates her to orgasm. (I must admit that I like watching her with another man.) When my friend is not available and the wife is extremely horny, we screw, since I am still functional despite lacking enthusiasm.

I'm a gay male who has never been very interested in having sex without an emotional connection. Perhaps this is because I was married to a woman for 20 years and the emotional part of the relationship was very important. This lack of desire for sex for its own sake is one of the reasons I consider getting castrated. I find the need to 'get off' distracts me from things I'd rather be pursuing. Like playing the piano and working on photography. I've felt different my whole life and now I realize it's not just because I'm gay. It's also because I don't actively seek out sex, I don't look at guys crotches and wonder what they're packing down there. Yet I am attracted to the beauty of the male body. When I'm attracted to someone and there's an emotional and intellectual connection, sex can follow but it's not the most important thing to me. For the brief period I tried chemical castration, I was beginning to feel asexual and liked it very much. Would I, as an asexual eunuch, be willing to please a partner sexually? I believe I would. If you love someone, you are aware of his (her) needs and want to satisfy them. I understand that sex being 'mostly in the brain' is connected to hormone levels. I know from my own experience while married that I will try to please my partner even when I'm not having much of a sexual reaction. I get satisfaction from knowing I'm committed to fulfilling my partner's physical needs even when my own aren't overwhelming.

My experience is that you do "take care" of the other persons sexual needs but not enough to make them very happy and the idea that your "forcing yourself" to do it is less then appealing.

Your results may vary....

Yoli here,

Thought I'd drop in pre-trip-to-office.

Sex without urges? Well, I'd have a hard time recalling any occasion when I had sex without urges. Then again, I still have my little hormone makers...my ovaries, so I may not be "qualified" to opine.

For all that, there have been times when I was not the initiator. As an example I there are occasions when I come dragging in and am thinking only of a warm bath or a soak in the pool. Sometimes Ash(leigh) joins me in the pool or shower, or kneels beside the tub to wash my back or just chat. No matter how tired or bummed I am her touch often triggers further...uhhhh...activity.

Since the original question posted here is more directed toward males, especially castrated (chemically or surgically) males, the only contribution I can make is that based on observation of, and communication and intimacy with, Barry, my eunuch friend/lover. Barry has always been quite forthcoming about his sexual "condition" as the interval since his castration increases. We've discussed this topic on numerous occasions over the few years I've known him.

I also have had occasion to "interrogate" one of his eunuch friends (the one from Houston) to a lesser degree.

Neither Barry nor his friend experience sudden urges such as might be expected of an intact male, at least not in a manner one might consider within the norm. Barry, though, says his desire to be kind to, and please, others, drives his willingness to engage in intimate behavior. I hasten to add that he is NOT promiscuous! There are very few persons in his sexual circle, and Ash(leigh), WOBG (when she's here,) and I comprise half his "crew". The others, of course, are males...including one who is in intact though extremely effeminate. The other two are surgically-created eunuchs. He has no "butch" boyfriends.

One might say that Barry senses the sexual urges of others and willingly engages in sexual activity in order to please and satisfy. Once things get rolling, his own more basic urges kick in, though not with the urgency usually felt by most intact males (or horny girls like me...Blush!)

Since castration, his centers of arousal have become more of an oral or anal nature rather than in his penis. Make no mistake; That sweet little morsel happily welcomes loving attention, but it is not the first place where his arousal originates. Obviously, he never suffers what I've heard termed "blue balls."

According to Barry, as intimate activity progresses he starts to feel an increasing "need" in his penis as well as what he calls an "urgency" in his prostate. This doesn't always

lead to a genuine stiffie, but usually does engender a partial erection that is often sufficient to effect entry into my (or someone else's) little >^..^< or my other Port-of-Entry. Needless to say, no matter how erect his peepee (or not) giving him oral loving care is a snap. Unlike BigGuy's impressive equipage, Barry's never makes me wish I could unhinge my jaws, ala Boa Constrictor. After all, at maximum readiness Barry's is no more than five inches long and very "svelte"; More like sucking on an Oscar Mayer weiner than BigGuy's kiolbasa.

So, do I ever have sex without urges? Well, maybe for the first nanosecond. And Barry? Well, yes, he does but urges DO set in fairly quickly. He says that, as an example, if he were to drop to his knees and pleasure me or a man and it lasted no more than maybe three minutes before my >^..^< or someone's "gave it up", then he'd be OK with walking off without further fun and games. Otherwise, he'd soon be wanting a little TLC for himself.

Let's face it; The relationship, irrespective of sex, should be the determining factor. If all else is in balance, sex will sometimes occur. The real test of intimacy is what takes place before and after sex...whether in the bedroom or on the street.

Not the most scholarly little exercise, but it's what I have learned so far.

Hugs and occasional gropes,

Yoli

I'd have to say that I am beginning to feel and act like Barry when it comes to sex. I can get turned on, but it is not the penis that does it - at least not as a total turn on. Without T, it takes my brain to get me turned on and that means something kinky like talk about a castration party or a threesome or whatever.

You'd like mine, Yoli, it's a slender 6-inches and still gets hard. Very easy to swallow!:)

Well, I don't have any urges so to speak, but when I have sex with my BF, I do feel some excitement, centered around my anus rather than my penis, (I'm on androcur).