My Experience...

[triplecrush (imported)]

Not sure if this is the right section or not but I thought I would share my experience undergoing a bilateral orchiectomy.

It all began approx. 14 years ago when i was trying out for football and went to get a physical and when getting checked the doctor told me something didn't feel right but i could still play and that i would most likely have problems later on in life and have to have whatever he was saying was out of place fixed. The only injury I remember sustaining prior to that was a kid in class that thought it was funny to kick other guys in the balls and run off. I still remember that little prick to this day. other than that I had one other injury from a bicycle when jumping a ramp and came off seat and landed on pole between seat and handle bars. That hurt i was in the bed sleeping with stomach pains and vomitting for 2 days after that one. Well, I ended up going off to college, getting married, having 2 kids, and then ended up in a divorce and moved to another state to be closer to family. I arrived to my new home and about 3 months later i started to notice pain and redness and slight swelling in my left testicle so I went to the doctor. I had testicular torsion. They fixed that and sent me on my way. The pain would come back periodically though regardless and over the last 2 years I had torsion 2 times and later found out i also had vericocle in my scrotum as well. I found a doctor who now that i look back things just didn't add up. I was recommended to have a unilateral orchiectomy to fix the issue after spending 1000's of dollars on co-pays and pain killers. I went for an ultrasound eventually and the doctor called me the next day to tell me I had a mass in my left testicle and a small spot on my right one. I was referred to another doctor for insurance purposes and i told the doctor to take em both so no more worries and wouldnt have to fork out anymore cash or wonder if I had cancer or something anymore since it does run strong in my family on the mens side for testicular and prostate. Doctor asked me if I was sure multiple times and I was sure I was ready. I was very hesitant in communicating with my wife about everything that was going on because I didn't want her to worry too. it was bad enough that i was worrying enough for both of us lol. well i am glad i did because i was so stressed out i forgot about banking sperm for just in case we want children in the future. We finished that up and I went in to the hospital and there the doctor confirmed with me that i wanted both removed and i confirmed again. Next thing you know I was asleep and had no idea what happened but woke up bandaged up with no testicles anymore. the pain was immediately gone and even after pain killers wore off i still feel good. i can walk without a limp now and would do it all over again possibly sooner if I knew it was going to give me this much freedom to do all the things i have wanted to do in the past and limits they were putting on my life. Well anyhow after the doc came to see me in the recovery room he stated he didn't see anything wrong with either of the testicles (actually said he did not see a tumor on my left testicle as the other doctor had told me. regardless something was making me hurt and whatever it was it is gone now. i am slightly curious to know what it was the other doctor seen and I would assume that something had to of been there for the dr. to pull my testicle out and if he didnt see anything wrong stitch me up and talk about it a little more but he went ahead and removed it i beleive due to the cords and the torsion and vericocle i had in my scrotum. It has been a few days now since I underwent the bilateral orchiectomy and i am feeling good. no pain down there and i have only had to take 3 pain pills so far. i do have a dull ache in my linguinal area kinda right below my stomach and right above my genital area. but im sure that is the cords where they were cut. Left the hospital and was amazed at how much better i felt and even more amazed that is has stayed that way. I have not chosen HRT yet due to wanting to get a full body scan checking for any abnormalities in my prostate so i can keep an eye on that. I would love some feedback on the testosterone replacement methods and difficulty level of applying. I would love to have something i can do at home without going to doctor. It has been 2 days and I am still getting random erections so not sure if that will go away or not but i hope they dont although i have spoken with a friend of mine who is a doctor who stated worse case scenario that viagra and/or cialus would work at getting it going anyhow. I feel relaxed. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. and the only advise i can give right now would probably be make sure you not only get a second opinion on things make sure you see the images for yourself.

[jockey_elance (imported)]

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

Do you feel less of a man without your balls?

Are you going to get prosthetic implants for your sack?

Does anyone besides the doctors know that you are now ball-less? Are you going to tell anyone?

How does your wife feel about this situation?

If it turns out the surgery was uneccessary, can you sue the doctor?

[janekane (imported)]

...

If it turns out the surgery was uneccessary, can you sue the doctor?

Sometimes, I find myself quite bewildered, puzzled, and even flummoxed.

Through what sort of achievable process could it ever turn out that the aforementioned surgery was unnecessary?

Suppose the surgery was not done and suppose, two years from now, one of the observed "testicular masses" had developed into terminal cancer? That would be one way to demonstrate that the surgery which was not done had been necessary, or so I would guess. However, the surgery having been done, there is no longer any way to learn for sure that terminal cancer would have developed within two years without the surgery.

The question of unnecessary surgery is thus, in my mind, rendered totally moot. Surgery done to prevent something that has yet to happen is always based on conjecture, speculation, and even wild guessing, and I am of the view that it never gets any better than that.

My family history informed me that I needed to get preventive surgeries to reduce my terminal-cancer-while-relatively-young risk to a level I personally deemed both tolerable and acceptable. The life pathway of my not getting a bilateral orchiectomy in 1986 identically vanished (and vanished forever?) with the orchiectomy. I have no possible way of forming the slightest clue as to how my life would be now (were I alive now) had I not gotten the orchiectomy and colectomy in 1986.

Bob Dylan wrote, if I remember correctly, something to the effect, "Whoever isn't busy being born is busy dying." For me, "being born" is equivalent to adding new life experiences to the aggregation of life experiences already collected. The moment I would begin to second-guess any of my past experiences, I find I would have decided to become busy dying.

For me, every new experience of my life is at least like a little birth of new experience. Moment by moment, as I adapt to the changing circumstances of my life, it is as though some aspect of my life is new-born. Such aspects, new in my life, are somewhat like being born anew, to the extent that my life pathway is changed by new experiences. Of this, experiencing a sense of newness as events in my life happen that never before happened, and of the experience of little (and sometimes not so little) life changes come my way which are analogous to forms of new birth of aspects of my life, some years ago, I wrote:

"...Second-guessing any newborn child makes the gift of life defiled..."

[Losethem (imported)]

If it turns out the surgery was uneccessary, can you sue the doctor?

If it turn$ out the $urgery wa$ unecce$$ary, can you $ue the doctor?

There I fixed that for you Jockey_elance.

I swear, some people are always looking for a reason to sue.

--LT

[DavidB (imported)]

To answer a few of your questions. In as little as a few weeks you will loose the spontaneous erections and after that it will be difficult to achieve an erection unless you used medication or start hrt. I used HRT for a while, didnt personally like the way it made me feel, but i would recommend the gel, its easy to use and you can self regualte the dosage by using a little more or less. I found that the full dose was way to much.

[triplecrush (imported)]

- I feel no less of a man.

- Prosthetic's I am not sure about because if my body rejects them then it cost extra to get them taken out and no refund on the "install" and as far as I can see it so far the wife has no issues with the appearance and since she is the only one seeing it then thats all im worried about.

- I guess the nurses that were in the room know, my doctor, and my wife. Not on my first list of things to do... Don't beleive it is anyones business.

- Wife has been very supportive

- Surgery was necessary. Multiple torsion incidents along with vericocile and extreme pain constantly just about

[triplecrush (imported)]

Thank you very much for that insight on the hormone replacement. Should I speak with my family doctor on this then? or urologist?

[DavidB (imported)]

Either would be fine, i orginally went and saw a hormone specalist, (brain freeze on what they are called). Then I got a script from my urologist. But I havent taken it like over 6 months.

Dave

[jake-mo (imported)]

on hrt here

was on shots gave myself

on gel now

still have testicles they stopped making T years ago

little hard to find dose that works best

i get mine from compouding pharmacy that mixes it as it is cheaper that as i pay for my own drugs

as always mileage veries a lot

any questions i would be glad to help just ask

[Losethem (imported)]

I would not speak to a urologist about your hormone issues. When I was castrated, I started with a urologist and found that to be a complete waste of time. A urologist is a body plumber... and well, you've taken care of the plumbing issue. What you'll need is a body chemistry specialist and for that you'll want to see an endocrinologist (endo). After you get the hormone issue straightened out with the endo, then you should be able to go back to your family doctor and see the endo once in a great while to make sure things are still going well. On this one you'll need a collaborative effort, but the one person I think you can take out of the equation is the urologist, unless down the road you start having some sort of plumbing issue related to your castration.

--LT

[DavidB (imported)]

My urologist has been great, and saved my life by being overly thourogh, as the saying goes goes your milage may very, your urologist may be in a position to assist you in multiple ways, but its not a bad idea to see an Endo as well.

[feedback (imported)]

My endrocrinologist worked with my family doctor on HRT levels. I now use just a little gel and control the amounts myself. Mostly using one pump or 1.25 grams a day but use 2 if I need more energy. If I use more I start having erections etc.

[Woggler58 (imported)]

Here's some HRT Info to get you started on replacing or improving on what you lost with your recent bilateral orchiectomy. Feel free to let your interest and curiosity take you beyond the scope of these suggestions, and milk this interesting journey for all it's worth to you.

Dr John Crisler, D.O., has an anti-aging and hormone replacement clinic, "All Things Male", in Michigan, and is prominent in the anti-aging "A4M" medical society. His website has a FAQ section that covers many of your present concerns, and I recommend it, at http://www.allthingsmale.com/faq.html . His description of health effects of low testosterone is consistent with what I experienced during a spell of way-below-normal T levels, both total T and free T, for two years following my regimen of radiation for prostate cancer in the fall of 2007. And his description of the benefits of obtaining a well-above-average level of testosterone via HRT is consistent with the effects I obtained from being on HRT in generous amounts since early 2010.

Other writings by Dr Crisler were very informative during 2009 as I was waiting for my prostate cancer treatment to show a track record of success via steady, very low PSA blood test results in the 0.3 and 0.2 range - down from 11.2 pre-treatment. Two years were sufficient to show that happy result to the satisfaction of myself plus my radiology oncologist. I knew that obtaining HRT meant being under the continuing care of a prescribing doctor, hopefully someone convenient to my Northern Calif residence. Dr. Crisler was out of range in that regard. Further, for many decades, accepted medical wisdom held that giving a prostate survivor any additional testosterone was bad practice, so I needed an open-minded hormone specialist who was up to date and not a herd follower.

My online HRT research led my browser to feature paid ads for several HRT-specialist clinics. I clicked on them and discovered that one, "BodyLogicMD", had an office in the city where I live, and specialized in exactly what I was interested in from long before I knew I had prostate cancer, but after I'd obtained tests on my own initiative that revealed low testosterone and (later) low thyroid levels. Of those two hormones, only the thyroid supplementation was un-controversial and readily obtained.

Before discovering HRT specialists in my city I'd seen an article in Life Extension Fdn's monthly magazine www.lef.org that covered a then- brandnew book on HRT by Dr. Abraham Morgentaler of Havard Medical School who, like Dr Crisler, has a private practice in HRT for men. I obtained a copy right away and in it was a breakthrough. More on that is in my EA post of July 16, 2011, following up on EA member janekane's mention of Dr Morgentaler in the Men's Health Article thread in the EA Castration in the Arts (etc) Forum. It's here http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread ... post184796 Note: Another way to find my postings is to click on my user name, Woggler58, to get and review my profile, then click at the left on "find all posts" to see a list of all my EA posts, most recent on top. Some other posts therein also pertain to HRT and to the effects of low T, well-established because of so many tens of thousands of men with uncured prostate cancer having to be surgically or chemically castrated to chill the cancer's advance for a few more years. (You can look up any current EA member's past posts that way, via their profile page.)

Don't miss the many posts by Jesus in EA's Cancer, Testicular, Prostate forum. Also, Kristoff posted a multi-part essay published by Prostate Cancer Research Institute on the many effects (and mitigations of them, if any) of living with castrate-levels of testosterone on a prolonged or permanent basis. It's in the Jan 2008 Cancer, Testicular, Prostate forum.

When I made contact with BodyLogicMD (BLMD) in late 2009, my inquiry was routed through the practice's Florida HQ, and then to their Dr. Ghelfi in my region. I explained up front that I was approaching two years since prostate cancer treatment and had quarterly lab tests and follow-up visits with my oncologists to back my idea that I was eligible for HRT. They weren't spooked and I attended an evening seminar held here for prospective new patients. What I saw and heard was consistent with Drs. Crisler, Morgentaler, and other sources including EA member postings. I was persuaded and was found acceptable by them too. Five main points were that, [1] I would be 100% self-pay because Medicare (I'm over 65) rejects covering this (in my case, maybe not yours) discretionary HRT; [2] BLMD would evaluate and balance all of my other hormones before dealing with my low-ish testosterone, [3] I would need PSA testing to continue several times a year to detect any possible cancer recurrence; [4] results would be gauged both by lab results and by how I'm feeling subjectively; and [5] testosterone administration would be by any of three forms, to be supplied by a compounding pharmacy to BLMD's specification: daily rub-on crème having a half-life similar to one's own testosterone, ie, less than one day, or self-injected weekly shots of about 10 days half-life, or many little MD-implanted (under the skin) time-release pellets good for several months before being refreshed.

Because setting an initial dose is patient-peculiar guesswork adjusted by trial-and-error, the daily crème is the most appropriate to start with because too much quickly clears away and too little is easily remedied. I liked that version and have stayed with it, the initial dose being very satisfactory and the rub-on product having no annoying practical effects, as it dries and absorbs promptly with no mess. It is supplied monthly in a clever, dose-calibrated dispenser called a "Topi-Click" www.topi-click.com . It is shaped like a small, oval-shafted erect penis and when you twist its base a click-defined quarter turn, it ejaculates a quarter ml of white crème out the hole in the center of its rounded glans onto that same surface, to be rubbed into the skin of one's inner forearm and/or upper chest. My daily dose is 1.0 ml of 5% by weight bio-identical testosterone, so I apply the prescribed 4 clicks per morning at breakfast, two on my inner arms and two on my chest. The monthly supply is generous enough that most days I apply a 5th click's dollop by finger to my scrotum, as done for the Australian Andromen Forte testosterone crème I read about first in EA and then on their website.

My monthly cost to University Compounding Pharmacy in San Diego CA is $46.95, charged to my credit card as a standing refill order. My other recurring costs are for lab tests and the monitoring visits to the doctor every 4-6 months. I order the agreed-upon lab tests and receive the results first, through Life Extension Fdn, which contracts with Lab Corp for the blood draw and lab assays at very good rates. I'm the paying customer of all these service providers and no self-interested insurance company has anything to say about what my providers are doing for me. I regard the results as an excellent value and everything I'd ever hoped for, even though because of my cancer treatments' side effects and other prejudicial circumstances, nobody will pay me lucrative stud fees to defray the cost of my newfound vitality in life.

I hope this long saga will help you find your own route to the HRT you soon will need so much more seriously than I ever did. I should add that, while surgical castration dropped your blood Testosterone to nil in less than 24 hours, it takes a lot longer for the effect of that decrease to manifest itself in changes you can notice, such as loss of libido and robust erections, let alone shrinkage of your several sex organs still present and your ability to orgasm. Whether you wish to wait and experience your own eunuch-like andropause before going on HRT is up to you. I got part way there at my testosterone nadir of 210 for over a year so I can sort of appreciate what women experience. You'll go deeper into it quicker than I ever did, and I suggest you abort the deprivation experience before incurring penis shrinkage and internal physiological damage in its erectile tissues like I did. (Others on this forum of course covet many of those effects, which the do-nothing option will surely get you if you prefer.)

Best wishes...

[gandalf (imported)]

- I feel no less of a man.

- Prosthetic's I am not sure about because if my body rejects them then it cost extra to get them taken out and no refund on the "install" and as far as I can see it so far the wife has no issues with the appearance and since she is the only one seeing it then thats all im worried about.

- I guess the nurses that were in the room know, my doctor, and my wife. Not on my first list of things to do... Don't beleive it is anyones business.

- Wife has been very supportive

- Surgery was necessary. Multiple torsion incidents along with vericocile and extreme pain constantly just about

Unlike you, I informed the family of what was going to happen. Scared one nephew because he thought "Cancer" but it wasn't. I told him it was just uncontrollable pain. Vioxx didn't even work and at the time it was supposed to be the strongest thing available.

My daughter's response was " Dad, at your age you don't need those things any more anyway". My Son was a little more unsure (being male and newly married) but he accepted it also. Only ones in the family that did not find out were the three grand children.

Personally, I am very happy with no balls. I didn't want artificial ones and ultimately three years later had the scrotum removed. I would not mind getting a urethra reroute now due to shrinkage of my penis.

I am prescribed 2.5 grams daily and that gave me a reading of T at 425 which the Dr was happy with. I am now only using 1.25 grams three days a week and 2.5 grams on four days. I plan on trying the 1.25 daily when I finish getting the leaves from 20 trees picked up this fall.

[janekane (imported)]

You'll go deeper into it quicker than I ever did, and I suggest you abort the deprivation experience before incurring penis shrinkage and internal physiological damage in its erectile tissues like I did. (Others on this forum of course covet many of those effects, which the do-nothing option will surely get you if you prefer.)

Oh, well, biological diversity may yet triumph. After 25 years with castrate testosterone levels, I have yet to get to penis shrinkage or any hint of erectile tissue damage. What is nearly perfectly certain almost all the time may never happen some of the time. Had I wanted to not have erections, or had I wanted penis shrinkage, I suppose I might be disappointed to the degree of being devastated.

What I did want, were it to become possible, is to be a decent, living husband and dad for about as long as my so being would be useful to my wife and daughter. So far, so good. Tomorrow has yet to happen, though.

Of course, I had no way to know whether my orchiectomy would result in my experienced quality of life being improved or severely impaired following the orchiectomy; the best I could do was to make the best guess I could make and learn what happened. I did not expect my quality of life, in the absence of testosterone, to subjectively improve as much as it did, nor did I necessarily expect to be alive now. To me, life is quite profoundly iffy, and it is the iffy aspect of life that I find makes life an intriguing, sometimes freaky, adventure.

For me, there was a significant psychological pain that came with testosterone, psychological pain that left me when testosterone left me.

Having been through very painful cancer preventive surgery (the total colectomy), a nurse once asked me whether physical pain or psychological pain was more severe in my experience.

My personal and subjective experience, then, before then, and since then, is that psychological pain has, at times, been incomprehensibly more severe than physical pain has ever been. If the limit of physical pain I have known were put on a scale of ten on a zero-to-ten scale, I do not know what number to assign to the worst psychological pain I have experienced. On a scale of zero-to-ten, perhaps ten thousand might be a decent guess.

So, I will not tell anyone else what to expect as a result of an orchiectomy or as a result of anything else; I will merely describe my life experiences on the chance that someone may find my descriptions useful.

Severe psychological pain may sometimes find expression in so-called referred pain.

Pain, however, no matter of what form or from what aspect of life, simply is painful, and I hold that anyone with any useful semblance of self-respect will do whatever is necessary for bringing unmanageable pain of any sort into something manageable.

Tell me that I need testosterone to prevent bone fractures as I get older, and I will tell you that I will take the pain of fractures over the pain of testosterone...

[jockey_elance (imported)]

If it turn$ out the $urgery wa$ unecce$$ary, can you $ue the doctor?

There I fixed that for you Jockey_elance.

I swear, some people are always looking for a reason to sue.

--LT

I'm sorry if my comment about lawsuits offended people. His post was kind of confusing but he said something about the doctor misdiagnosing a tumor that wasn't really there. I see now that there was more to his situation. If a doctor removes part of your body and it turns out nothing was wrong, that could be a legitimate reason for a lawsuit, no? It wouldn't have to be just to get rich, the money might be needed to pay addition medical costs or even psychological counseling.

To the op, I hope everthing works out. You are lucky to have a wife who is supportive.