Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:38 pm
You are absolutely correct, from a chromosome point of view ONLY.
However, those of us who have been here a while and studied this know that its not your chromosomes or what is between your legs that make you male or female, its what is between your ears that counts.
River
Your post makes me think of the Tennessee woman (with breasts :boobies:and penis ) who went to the DMV requesting that her driver's license be changed to list her as "female". Her request was denied because the law viewed her as a male. She subsequently went out into the parking lot and removed her blouse and bra. She was then arested for indecent exposure of her (female ) breasts. Was she female or male?
I admit that I was considering the body only, not the personality. Those whom claim to be a woman trapped in a man's body or vice versa have a valid point there. The writers of the Upanishads in ancient India knew that the person is not the body.
Those who deride as "the ghost in the machine" the idea that the person is an entity which uses the body (which is certainly the way that it SEEMS to us) have no plausible way of explaining why the body does things which are not only not useful or beneficial to it, but often harmful to it. If we weren't more than the body, EVERYTHING we do would be directed to the end of benefitting the body.
The question, then, is what defines gender ? Is it genetic, physiological, or psychological ?
devi (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:38 am
Fact is there are eunuchs which are identified as female from the time of birth, most as male, and so many of us as in between in a sort of separate all inclusive category, sort of a third gender construct which in this society other than India are told that they are male.
And yes biology has everything to do with male and female and why we're even living and breathing on this planet in the first place.
One thing that a eunuch can be said to be unique about is trying NOT to explain to a lady that they can have sex but cannot ever have children. The lady will always think or say something like, "Yeah RIGHT!!!". So when that kind of conversation starts coming about and they start becoming more and more inquisitive, it's just better to back off otherwise you'll see that snicker of "Yeah RIGHT".
Sure biology has everything to do with male and female.
I admit that I was considering the body only, not the personality. Those whom claim to be a woman trapped in a man's body or vice versa have a valid point there. The writers of the Upanishads in ancient India knew that the person is not the body.
Those who deride as "the ghost in the machine" the idea that the person is an entity which uses the body (which is certainly the way that it SEEMS to us) have no plausible way of explaining why the body does things which are not only not useful or beneficial to it, but often harmful to it. If we weren't more than the body, EVERYTHING we do would be directed to the end of benefitting the body.
The question, then, is what defines gender ? Is it genetic, physiological, or psychological ?
I am a woman in a man's body. Certainly not trapped. Consider this: nature has diversity. If there are black and white women, tall and short women, fat and skinny women (all those adjectives are physical in nature you realise), why not male and female women?
So what defines gender? It is a psychological instinct that is a result of biological causes. Since 1998, they've proven and have continue to prove that most trans women, have a brain that is physically similiar to a brain found in a cisgendered physical female, despite the sex of the body being male. This seems to suggest that the gender instinct of the brain is dependent on whether the brain is more physically male-structured or female-structured, and independent from the sex of the rest of the body.
punkypink (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:33 pm
I am a woman in a man's body. Certainly not trapped. Consider this: nature has diversity. If there are black and white women, tall and short women, fat and skinny women (all those adjectives are physical in nature you realise), why not male and female women?
So what defines gender? It is a psychological instinct that is a result of biological causes. Since 1998, they've proven and have continue to prove that most trans women, have a brain that is physically similiar to a brain found in a cisgendered physical female, despite the sex of the body being male. This seems to suggest that the gender instinct of the brain is dependent on whether the brain is more physically male-structured or female-structured, and independent from the sex of the rest of the body.
The world needs more understanding for those who do not fit the traditional mold. The more we learn and the more we understand, the better off we will be.
Mac (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:52 pm
The world needs more understanding for those who do not fit the traditional mold. The more we learn and the more we understand, the better off we will be.
xsmasturbator (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:42 am
The eunuch , even if he have no shred of tissue of his reproductive system, is MALE. How he regards himself, as well as how others regard him, is irrelevant. Every cell in his body is MALE. His DNA has a Y chromosome. That's all it takes.
No matter what he may do to his body chemically or surgically, he cannot get rid of his Y chromosomes. He is irrevocably and irreversibly MALE. Similarly, Chastity Bono may call herself Chaz , take testosterone, have a prosthetic penis installed, ,or whatever she wishes, but, lacking a Y chromosome, she is and always will be FEMALE.
You sure your on the right web site. We are a bit more supportive and progressive then that here.
Just needed to throw this out there but I don't have time to try to desparately explain myself again: 'XX' male. There is such a thing but then they have a 'SRY' attachment.
As for eunuchism there are the five levels of adolescent development which many cannot complete due to biological reasons gone awry. If not completed, these will amount to varying degrees of eunuchoid habitus. And then on top of that there is pre-birth, birth, toddler, and pre-teen. And of course trans surgery will completely reverse the process for eunuchism.
In heaven (or outside of biology) there are not two genders. We are all the same as one. I think scientists and most theologians agree on this. On the face of this planet
devi (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:38 am
biology has everything to do with
The problem I have with simple models of complex phenomena is simply that simple models of complex phenomena are inextricably so incomplete as to be usefully deemed false. Therefore, if a person has escaped all forms of somatic mutation and has never had any gene in any neuron jump (as in jumping genes as of the work of Barbara McClintoch), then I shall allow that a Y chromosome makes for a male person.
Only, translocations (jumping genes) and somatic mutations not translocations are so commonplace that it plausibly would take a googolplex of realized parallel universes for there to be even one true male in that sense.
To what extent might be the making of biological pronouncements without having sufficient understanding of the full realm of biology and biological diversity be a form of foolishness?
Mac (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:21 pm
Your post makes me think of the Tennessee woman (with breasts :boobies:and penis ) who went to the DMV requesting that her driver's license be changed to list her as "female". Her request was denied because the law viewed her as a male. She subsequently went out into the parking lot and removed her blouse and bra. She was then arested for indecent exposure of her (female ) breasts. Was she female or male?
One reason that I, as a transgendered person (MtFtE) chose to keep my driver's license as supposedly male was convenience, the other was, by doing so, I can go around outdoors topless without being indecently exposed, thereby exposing the hypocrisy of society with impunity. The joke is on those true-believers in the binary gender phallusee. (Pun VERY intentional...)
) who went to the DMV requesting that her driver's license be changed to list her as "female". Her request was denied because the law viewed her as a male. She subsequently went out into the parking lot and removed her blouse and bra. She was then arested for indecent exposure of her (female 
) breasts. Was she female or male?