Introduction on a "sick" man

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

Hello,

I am german (24yo) and I registered here because I want to inform myself about the effects of various forms of castration.

My background:

I have extreme pedophilic and sadistic tendencies. Sex with women and men after puberty seems impossible for me. They just doesnt interest me sexually. My thoughts are extremely difficult to deal with. I know its not my fault I have these thoughts and I have a good self contol of my actions so I dont think I will ever become a real threat for children. But I dont want these thoughts anymore...

I contacted a therapist here in my city for these kind of problems. But I know they only want to teach you to control your impulses so you dont do anything criminal. You cant threat a sexual preference like that... sadly...

So the only two logical options for me are chemical and surgical castration. Both are perfectly legal here for certain cases and I wouldnt even have to pay something for that. The big question is if they would do a surgical castration.

Anyway... I want to study the consequences of both methods... pro and cons... I think you all are specialists for that and I hope this will help me to make a decision...

[Jorge2008 (imported)]

You should try Androcur (Cyproterone) first. It is available in Germany and at least in the 1970s when it came to the market, it was readily prescribed for pedophiles. The drug is highly potent and in most cases drastically reduces the sex drive, whatever one's sexual orientation is. If that doesn't work, physical castration can be sought per Gesetz über die freiwillige Kastration und andere Behandlungsmethoden (http://www.buzer.de/gesetz/6323/index.htm) (Kastrationsgesetz - KastrG), but it is rarely used and you'd have to go through many instances before the castration is approved.

[tugon (imported)]

Welcome to the EA. I respect you for being honest and seeking a solution for your problems. My initial thought is for chemical castration to begin along with therapy. I realize therapy has not always been effective but with your willingness to change along with the reduction of sex drive the combination may help. If after months you like the reduced drive and still feel you are at risk then seek out castration.

I also worry that you may have a history of being abused and that needs to be addressed. I know what problems being abused can cause. While you are working on your desires work on any problems so as you age you will not be dealing time and again with the past.

I was castrated because my sex drive was out of control. I was in debt from phone chatrooms and those fees. I bought a lot of porn. Paid for sex and met someone who abused me and took my money. My life was a mess. I needed riskier sex to feed my addictions. I put 100,000 miles on a car in two years out looking for a thrill. I needed to stop those actions. The reason I am sharing all of this is because castration did greatly reduce my sex drive.

One thing I have learned post castration is that it took care of my sex drive but it did not fix my brain. When I do fantasize and masturbate my thoughts are still the same. As a child I was used by an adult male for blowjobs. I grew up thinking that is what sex was to be for me. I grew up thinking my purpose was to orally please men. My fantasies are still based on this early sense of self. So while I do not have enough drive to fulfill my fantasies my fantasies did not change with castration. I wish I could afford good therapy.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

I also worry that you may have a history of being abused and that needs to be addressed. I know what problems being abused can cause. While you are working on your desires work on any problems so as you age you will not be dealing time and again with the past.

I have absolutely no history of being abused. Despite a light autistic disorder I had a relatively happy childhood. Other than the depressions because of the thoughts about childs I consider myself psychological stable.

I am very sure that a therapy alone will not change anything. Therer is no way to cure a sexual orientation. Someone who say it is possible thinks that homosexuality is treatable.

So my goal is to reduce the sex drive. Better to have no sexuality than a sexuality I cant have.

[tugon (imported)]

I have absolutely no history of being abused. Despite a light autistic disorder I had a relatively happy childhood. Other than the depressions because of the thoughts about childs I consider myself psychological stable.

I am very sure that a therapy alone will not change anything. Therer is no way to cure a sexual orientation. Someone who say it is possible thinks that homosexuality is treatable.

So my goal is to reduce the sex drive. Better to have no sexuality than a sexuality I cant have.

I am glad you were not a victim of abuse. I wish you luck on achieving your goal before any child is victimized.

[considering (imported)]

I was castrated in a hospital under sterile conditions by a Urological Surgeon. I did not have the problems you described but, as I grew older, my sex drive was proving difficult to contain but only to the point that it interrupted my normal life. I'm glad that you are doing research and, I believe, you will find a great deal of information here all of it given with honesty and in the hope of helping you. I admire your willingness to admit to and realize what a serious problem you potentially have. Is castration of one form or the other appropriate? Impossible to say. However, in advance of my surgery, i spent over a year in counseling to assure myself and my surgeon that this was the proper thing to do. I might suggest you seek similar advice and do not rush into something irreversible. Eile Mit Weile.

[Paolo]

First of all, I have to commend you on being brave enough to come and post to the forums about this.

I think that you will find a great amount of information here.

Please heed the advice of the previous posters, and give chemical castration some thought before you do anything permanent.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

First of all, I have to commend you on being brave enough to come and post to the forums about this.

I think that you will find a great amount of information here.

Please heed the advice of the previous posters, and give chemical castration some thought before you do anything permanent.

I think when I want to do it legally I wont have much choice... Besides.. I am 24 and surgical casration is possible in 10 month from now. So enough time to try the chemical "solution".

[JesusA]

Hello Nic,

Since I have no direct experience in working with someone who suffers from pedophilia, I sent a copy of your first post and of the first two responses (from Jorge2008 and Tugon) to three of the acknowledged experts in the field, asking for any advice that they might have.

I have received back one response for an expert in England. I think that his advice is good, and I hope that you will consider it carefully. In the holiday season it may take a few days to receive any other responses.

In view of the importance and, I would suggest, urgency, of this young man's request for advice, I have decided to respond immediately. Unfortunately, the value of my input in this case will not amount to much because I have no experience or knowledge of cases featuring sadistic fantasies and desires.

My immediate response - and, as I say, I feel it should be immediate though I might add more later if anything significant occurs to me - is that the advice he has already received, as set out in your email attachment, seems sensible and proportionate even though it is drastic, particularly as regards surgical castration. I regard the advice as proportionate because the drastic advice is a good match for the danger of extreme harm that could result from yielding to the temptation of the desires disclosed.

I take into account that this is evidently a person who feels in control of his feelings but does not want them and is well motivated to get rid of them.

All I would add at this stage is that in reporting his "background" he actually reports only his "foreground" i.e. he describes his sexual problem but not his family background or his current social, career and leisure situation. If he is doing well in these other areas - and there is nothing to indicate any problems - that would of course be a hopeful sign. However, advice should perhaps include asking about these matters, with a view to addressing, if possible any deficits in social integration, sense of purpose in life, etc.

As for therapy, it is not all Cognitive Behavioral Therapy targeted solely at risk reduction. I am told that more humane and holistic forms of therapy are available, but I have no direct experience in this area. The best therapy might come through engagement with a social circle such as Richard's. [Here he's referring to the U.S. group www.B4UACT.org (http://www.B4UACT.org), which may be able to provide some of the support and advice that you need.]

I hope that you will check the B4UACT web site and read through some of the advice that is posted there. Richard Kramer, who manages the site, is kind and caring and would, I am sure, be willing to answer any questions that you have and to work with you in searching for appropriate help in Germany. He has far better contacts than I have.

Please, also, keep us informed on this site. There are many caring people here who will want to help whenever they can.

[JesusA]

A second expert, a Canadian, has now responded to my request for advice. He is away from home for the holidays, but he suggested the Dunkelfeld Project in Germany as possibly the best resource anywhere in the world for you to contact. They have locations in six cities in Germany, including Berlin, Kiel, Hamburg, and Regensberg. Their German language web site is at

http://www.kein-taeter-werden.de/

There is a link to an English language site from that page for anyone else who is interested.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

A second expert, a Canadian, has now responded to my request for advice. He is away from home for the holidays, but he suggested the Dunkelfeld Project in Germany as possibly the best resource anywhere in the world for you to contact. They have locations in six cities in Germany, including Berlin, Kiel, Hamburg, and Regensberg. Their German language web site is at

http://www.kein-taeter-werden.de/

There is a link to an English language site from that page for anyone else who is interested.

I allready called them last week and will get a first appointment very early next year.

Thanks for contacting these people. If I understood it correctly he considers the surgical castration as a proportinate option... I am kind of relieved that someone else sees it that way and I am not totally mad...

[Gunpowder (imported)]

Getting castrated in Germany is impossible unless you have already commited a crime. For prevention it will not be done. This is what the medical association (Ärztekammer) said.

[janekane (imported)]

I allready called them last week and will get a first appointment very early next year.

Thanks for contacting these people. If I understood it correctly he considers the surgical castration as a proportinate option... I am kind of relieved that someone else sees it that way and I am not totally mad...

Ich weiß nicht, was soll es bedeuten,

Daß ich so traurig bin;

Ein Märchen aus alten Zeiten,

Das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.

Die Luft ist kühl, und es dunkelt,

Und ruhig fließt der Rhein;

Der Gipfel des Berges funkelt

In Abendsonnenschein.

From Heinrich Heine, Die Lorelei

In englischer Sprache, my translation:

I do not know what it means,

That I am so troubled;

An ancient story,

That I cannot get out of my mind.

The air is cool, and it is getting dark,

And the River Rhine flows peacefully;

The mountain peaks sparkle

In evening sunlight.

I am a Wisconsin Registered Professional Engineer, having undergraduate and doctoral degrees in bioengineering, whose ongoing research focus is the neurobiology of child abuse and the effects of child abuse, as a biological, not merely social, human predicament. My research field work has given me many hundreds of contact hours with people who were abused as children and who became child abusers, some of whom I surmise are not likely to ever get out of prison.

In my work child abuse is not mainly what is now considered to be child sexual abuse, though child sexual abuse is, in my view, clearly the result of one or another form of experienced abuse. The most profoundly tragic aspect of child abuse, in my work, is the way child abuse tends to result in most people who experienced child abuse blocking out conscious awareness of their childhood abuse experiences.

In one school, in California, I was horribly, horribly abused by my teacher and the school principal. In one school in Wisconsin, I was sexually molested after a teacher so ridiculed me before his class that one of my classmates very improperly grabbed me where being grabbed was horribly wrong. I am autistic and transgendered, and am vividly aware of what it is to be abused in ways society defines, in profoundly disastrous error, to not be abuse.

To the extent that society demands that one has to commit a crime in order to get the help that might have prevented the crime, I find that attitude to be an unconscionably abusive atrocity.

From the English language version of Prevention Project Dunkelfeld:

Do you like children in ways you shouldn't?

According to scientific research, up to one percent of all men have sexual fantasies directed towards children. This means, they have a partial or exclusive sexual preference in terms of pedophilia or hebephilia. Causes for these sexual preference disorders are generally unknown.

My best estimate is that there is less than one chance in ten thousand that the bioengineering research I have done has not accurately recognized the "Causes for these sexual preference disorders..." The cause, in my view, is to be found in the processes of human social evolution. A proper account of this view is my main work focus, and the account is not yet completed in word form.

In my work the cause of damaging sexual preferences is not particularly different from the cause of any, and every, other form of human destructiveness; I have never found any human destructive act that was not a response to a prior human destructive act.

When children are treated in destructive ways because of social norms and conventions, the destructive effects of such treatment do not go away merely by ignoring them.

Everything I have learned about Prevention Project Dunkelfeld informs me that they may be an excellent resource for preventing criminal sexual conduct involving children.

[Jorge2008 (imported)]

OK, but I think this concerns physical castration only. I guess chemical castration is still used. At least it is used in Estonia, I just had to find the right doc.

Getting castrated in Germany is impossible unless you have already commited a crime. For prevention it will not be done. This is what the medical association (Ärztekammer) said.

[Cainanite (imported)]

I feel I should respond to this thread, as I can identify with nicnic1988. I too have suffered with these sorts of feeling, and I too would never want to actually harm a child.

One of my best coping methods has been to recognize that what I am thinking and feeling inside is NOT unhealthy or wrong. When I spent all my effort trying to suppress and control my thoughts and feelings I became more and more depressed and angry. That is something that repeatedly put me on the path to self destruction. I needed to recognize that I should instead indulge in the fantasy while keeping the reality separate.

I think of it this way. Some people love gangster stories about killing cops and robbing banks. They indulge the fantasy and watch every gangster movie, read every gangster book, and even dream about what life might be like as a gangster. Yet, they would never actually join a gang, rob a bank, or ever kill someone. They just enjoy the story.

That is what I do. I can think about something that society shuns. I can indulge that fantasy. All I needed to do was recognize that it is a fantasy, and it is a mental need of mine that I occasionally must feed. As the fantasy is satiated, my real life comes more and more into my control.

The important thing is that this is properly contained so that it does not bleed out into your real life. If you feel like you are truly at a point in your life where you actually might harm a child, then I would certainly agree that you should seek a solution like chemical castration to bring your desires into a more manageable state. If you are in crisis, you need to do what you must. You need to protect yourself as much as an innocent child. Just don't think of castration as the end of your journey. This is something that exists in your mind, not your gonads.

I for one have tried and failed with therapy. I live in a country where if I reveal the wrong thing to a psychologist, I could end up with a destroyed life, even if my fantasy has never crossed the line into reality. I would be putting myself at the mercy of a therapist and their mere opinion of me. It is just too large a risk for me to take.

What I do instead is to indulge my fantasy. I read stories that fulfill that need, and I write them too. It gives my brain a safe place to expend that energy. By doing so, I harm no one.

You may well be able to suppress your sexual need, but you cannot suppress your mind. It will still be with you. Find a safe outlet for your energy, and do not do anything permanent and irreversible to yourself while you are still finding your path in life. Remember, you need to protect yourself, as much as you need to protect those innocent children.

I want you to keep that in mind as you move forward on your journey. Castration will only treat an outward symptom. It will not treat the cause. The only way to treat the cause is to find a way to safely deal with who you are, and what you mentally need. Your hormones may be the fuel to the fire, but your hormones are not the spark that started it.

If you can find a safe outlet for your desires, then you don't have to think of yourself as flawed or dangerous. You do not have to punish yourself anymore. Just find a safe place to deal with those needs, and the rest of your life will fall into your control.

Also, know you are not alone in your situation. I know how you feel. I've been there too.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

Getting castrated in Germany is impossible unless you have already commited a crime. For prevention it will not be done. This is what the medical association (Ärztekammer) said.

Maybe not for prevention, but for psychological reasons... At least that is what the law says... I know about the involved moral issues on castration, especially in germany and its past but it would be much more immoral to refuse a castration with the result of a crime or suicide. When I think surgical castration is the right choice and they refuse it I will do it without their help.

@Cainanite:

I Dont try to suppress these fantasies (I know I cant)... But the problem is that they are extremely intrusive and if I have them I am unable to do anything productive. I find it very difficult to control my thoughts... Maybe because of an autistic disorder I have.

[Cainanite (imported)]

@Cainanite:

I Dont try to suppress these fantasies (I know I cant)... But the problem is that they are extremely intrusive and if I have them I am unable to do anything productive. I find it very difficult to control my thoughts... Maybe because of an autistic disorder I have.

I do understand what you mean. My suggestion would be to provide a regular and safe outlet for yourself. Maybe for you that would mean only at a certain time of day, and only for a certain length of time. Train yourself to find your release when it won't interfere with your normal life. It may take time, but you can do it.

As I said, if you are in crisis you need to do what is best for yourself. Just remember to hold physical castration as an absolute last resort. Also remember that your thoughts and feelings will still be with you, even post castration. From what I have read from you, it is controlling your thoughts that is the problem, not controlling your hormones. One thing does not exactly equal the other.

I really hope you can find the help you need. We are here if you need us.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

My first appointment is on thursday... I hope this will be something helpful...

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

We hope so too. --FLO--

[justjustin (imported)]

Good luck - for you and for others too. I think you are right and hope you get what you need.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

Just came back from my appointment. They are definately taking it seriously. I will be there every week but castration is not something they speak about... yet...

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

I got some other antidepressants now... They said if they dont help I will get Androcur.

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

I will get Androcur next week. I will start with 50mg/day. My testosterone value at the moment is 16. How much will it go down with that dosis?

[Jorge2008 (imported)]

More usual Androcur dosage is 100 mg/day.

I will get Androcur next week. I will start with 50mg/day. My testosterone value at the moment is 16. How much will it go down with that dosis?

[nicnic1988 (imported)]

More usual Androcur dosage is 100 mg/day.

Yes, but they wanted to start with a "low" dosage because I am so young and dont want to overdose because of the possible side effects. If 50mg does not have any effect I will take a higher dosage.