Advice Needed

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:27 am

Hello -

My name is Derek, I am a 36 year old high school teacher, and I am thinking about castration. I am male, identify male and am straight. Here is my story....please let me know what you think I should do:

About 3 years ago I started taking Propecia, for my mild hairloss. After less than a year on the drug, I began having horrible side effects. Panic attacks, insomnia, sexual dysfunction including a completely numb penis, low libido and very little cum. I stopped the Propecia and the symptoms went away for about a month - I figured I dodged a bullet. But then, out of the blue, my world came crashing down around me and the old symptoms returned with a vengeance. Helpless against the panic attacks, depression and other problems, I considered suicide. Eventually the panic attacks stopped, but I am now 2 years off Propecia and am still an low libido, little cum making, numb penised insomniac. And the dagger in my back - and the other victims of Propecia - is that Merck knew about these side effects for years and failed to add a warning to the US medicine. They added a warning to the European version about the permanent side effects, but waited over 3 years to include the same warning on the US brand. It was during those 3 years that I began taking Propecia.

So I am essentially chemically castrated, right? These symptoms - low libido, penis numbness, little cum - don't they all happen to a castrated male? I have come to accept my current state - and think that maybe a physical castration would be the way to go - at least I would get the BENEFITS of castration as well. As it is now - my T level is around 600 ng/dl - but my body can't process the T. Should I go the whole way? I am considering TRT anyways - not that it will help - but maybe it can. Any advice?

raymar2020 (imported) · Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:55 am

Derek,

Do your research , there are some drugs that can help with processing Testosterone. They should help to negate some of the effects you are describing. Increasing your testosterone level could help as well. It may be that you need a higher level than the average person.

Surgical castration is a serious thing to consider. Once done it is NOT reversible. I would not be in a hurry to head in that direction, since obviously you are having all the negative symptoms of castration. See an endocrinologist for sure. They can work wonders with balancing hormones and may be able to get you back on track to being who you want to be.

To all readers, do NOT ever take Propecia. The stuff should be outlawed. Merck has a really bad one there. Tell your friends and anyone who is considering taking it that the risks are just not worth the little it can do for hair loss.

Back to Derek, be aware that taking a testosterone supplement may increase your hair loss.

Raymar

kristoff · Post by **kristoff** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:21 am

What Raymar said! And sue the bastards if you can. They deserve to lose a lot for stuff like this.

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:44 am

I have tried to find this out through my own research - I read Castration by V. Cheney - but he doesn't mention it. Are the side effects of penile numbness and insomnia, in particular, common with a castrated man?? Also - the crazy part of PFS (Post Finasteride Syndrome - the Propecia disease) is that I haven't really responded to TRT. It just doesn't work for the guys who have PFS for some reason. I know castration is severe - but I feel that if I cut my nuts off - it will give ME control over the situation - it won't be that a drug company screwed me out of quality of life - I can let go of that and accept that I made the decision to become a eunuch. Raymar and Kristoff - thanks for you posts. I have much to ponder....

kristoff · Post by **kristoff** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:07 pm

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:44 am I have tried to find this out through my own research - I read Castration by V. Cheney - but he doesn't mention it. Are the side effects of penile numbness and insomnia, in particular, common with a castrated man?? Also - the crazy part of PFS (Post Finasteride Syndrome - the Propecia disease) is that I haven't really responded to TRT. It just doesn't work for the guys who have PFS for some reason. I know castration is severe - but I feel that if I cut my nuts off - it will give ME control over the situation - it won't be that a drug company screwed me out of quality of life - I can let go of that and accept that I made the decision to become a eunuch. Raymar and Kristoff - thanks for you posts. I have much to ponder....

I have never heard of any castrated men acquiring numbness in their penis as a result of castration. Same goes for insomnia. Of course, who is to know, but someone will make a liar out of me. I know one man, and have chatted with a couple other men who have experienced PFS, as you call it (haven't heard that name before), and none of the three gain any benefit from HRT. It would seem like they are somewhat immune to their own testosterone, let alone exogenous T. I suspect you would find castration to be more of a psychological answer as opposed to physical. Besides, who knows what other benefits the existing T might provide - there is still a lot that is not known about hormones. And TRT is NOT the same as the real thing. I would suggest that other than an endocrinologist, you might like to have some sessions with a psychologist and work some of this out in other ways, if possible. If nothing else, the psychologist can help you grow assured of your decision. No matter how prepared you believe you are, most are not and require substantial adjustment.

K

Paolo · Post by **Paolo** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:09 pm

It sounds to me like you have a career, and a good one at that, since you take the time to mention it.

This is a harsh thing to deal with, especially if you didn't expect or want it.

But nothing, this included, is worth taking your own life over.

Hang around here, and feel free to contact any of us.

That's what we're here for.

butterflyjack (imported) · Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 pm

I take 5 mgs of Finasteride daily for a swollen prostate...Am I at risk for these side effects? (I believe it's the generic equivalent of Propecia)..I've been on it for over a year..

I like some of the symptoms...and couldn't care less about impotency...but what else in the way of harm can I expect? Thanks, and I wish you well..Jackie

erikboy (imported) · Post by **erikboy (imported)** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:50 am

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:44 am Are the side effects of penile numbness and insomnia, in particular, common with a castrated man??

I do not know know how common penile numbness and insomnia is among castrated men, but these are sideeffects many have reported. I did experience dificulties to fall asleep and some penile numbness myself during my veri short androcur trial peiod.

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:55 am

The issues with Propecia don't occur with every man...in fact, some estimate it is only 1 out of 100. But there is no way of telling if you are the 1, or the other 99. Young men, IMO, should never take this drug as it is like playing Russian Roulette with your sexual and mental health. If you take if for your prostate, then maybe its worth the risk. Just go to propeciahelp.com and you can read about some of the men suffering because of Propecia.

Paolo - thanks for the encouraging words! I am not suicidal anymore - I got past that stage(I hope....)but now am just trying to come to terms with the thought that I may never feel my penis again, or even want to use it. The low libido has taken quite a bit of zest out of life. But I am glad this community is here to help each other....as I think more about castration - I might have more questions. It is interesting, though, that eunuchs don't experience penis numbness. I just thought my numbness was do to my low T. Interesting.....

kristoff · Post by **kristoff** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:46 am

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:55 am The issues with Propecia don't occur with every man...in fact, some estimate it is only 1 out of 100. But there is no way of telling if you are the 1, or the other 99. Young men, IMO, should never take this drug as it is like playing Russian Roulette with your sexual and mental health. If you take if for your prostate, then maybe its worth the risk. Just go to propeciahelp.com and you can read about some of the men suffering because of Propecia.

Paolo - thanks for the encouraging words! I am not suicidal anymore - I got past that stage(I hope....)but now am just trying to come to terms with the thought that I may never feel my penis again, or even want to use it. The low libido has taken quite a bit of zest out of life. But I am glad this community is here to help each other....as I think more about castration - I might have more questions. It is interesting, though, that eunuchs don't experience penis numbness. I just thought my numbness was do to my low T. Interesting.....

At 600 ng/dl you do NOT have low T - the question is, can your body use it?

artisticlicense (imported) · Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 am

If you are seeing a physician, ask about using Pregnenolone 10-50 mg (http://www.vitacost.com/productResults. ... egnenolone). It's a 'back-door' to your endocrine system.

Children have ample amounts of naturally occuring pregnenolone production in their systems, but loose it slowy over time; you stop producing it around age 25.

It is the building blocks for human growth hormones (HGH) and DHEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone).

It's over-the-counter, order without prescription. It may help level out your hormone biosynthesis, and re-set your brain wiring toward testosterone. Think of it as reprogramming yourself.

I have Hypogonadism, and I use 10 mg daily (a.m., before breakfast) with good results and no problems. There are a few other members here who have tried it also. It kills the sleepless nights, and perks up my interest in daily living, including sexual desire.

I use pregnenolone in 2-4 week cycles during the year. I know I'm deficient when I start getting "depressed feelings" - loose interest in common every-day activities, and sweat at night.

Also, here are a few herbs that help my sexual 'physical disfunction'. I take them daily, in addition to pregnenolone, all with the evening meal.

TribulusTerrestris Extract (Tribulus terrestris) (http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-tribul ... andardized)

Tongkat Ali(Eurycoma longifolia jack) (http://www.vitacost.com/action-labs-lon ... 0-capsules) or 'Long Jack'

and Ginseng (http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-ginsen ... ct-complex)

P.S., take a multi-"B" complex vitamin every morning. "B" vitamins, especially B-12 help your nerves, and re-generate nerve pathways.

You might also want to try a ginseng cream (http://www.vitacost.com/earth-science-a ... ng-complex) on the penile tissues, massaged in (yeah, sort-of like masturbation . . . but try to think of it as a back rub!)

See; PSF Foundation.org (http://www.pfsfoundation.org/)

Propecia Lawsuit; http://www.propecia-lawsuit.org/

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:00 am

kristoff wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:46 am At 600 ng/dl you do NOT have low T - the question is, can your body use it?

Yes...I should have stated that different. Most of the Propecia guys do not have low T...but for some reason our body doesn't use most of it. And thank you for the pregnalone tip...I am off to GNC now to get a bottle.

artisticlicense (imported) · Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:39 pm

jorbie77; another supplement that may help your numb penis is L-arginine

artisticlicense (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 am (http://www.vitacost.com/productResults. ... =1&ss=1&x=

19&y=15&ntk=products&Ntt=L-arginine).

It is a natural "Viagra", increasing blood-flow to the groin and lower extremities. With more blood-flow, better chance of nerve recovery.

If you look at the ingredients of a lot of those gas station and convenience store counter displayed 'erection helpers', you'll see L-arginine as the main ingredient.

I have taken one (1); 500-mg capsule and was "fired up" for a couple of hours. It does NOT 'make' you horny; but . . . most guys will "brain-benefit" a stiff erection!

If you've ever used Viagra or other 'helpers', you'll not be disappointed in L-arginine. (Viagra - $15-$20/pill; Gas station generics - $5/pill; L-arginine - $.06/capsule)

**Caution**; just like Viagra, and those 'other' helpers, if you have heart problems or bleeding ailments, know that L-arginine does increase heart-rate and dilates blood vessels. So, know thyself, or seek council from your physician.

Losethem (imported) · Post by **Losethem (imported)** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Something I've not seen anyone mention here is that you read that book by Victor Cheney... As far as I know, we eunuchs have pretty much denounced him as a quack. So please take what those of us who are castrated say more seriously than anything he does.

In your case, other than your mentioning that surgical castration will have put the decision in your hands instead of the drug companies, I do not see any value to your doing that unless you're wanting to for reasons other than those you've spoken about. It simply won't change anything, and if your masculinity in your mind is wrapped up in your genitals, then having yourself surgically castrated may do you more harm than good.

Whatever happens, I sincerely wish you the best outcome possible to help you through your situation.

--LT

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:04 am

Losethem (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:24 pm Something I've not seen anyone mention here is that you read that book by Victor Cheney... As far as I know, we eunuchs have pretty much denounced him as a quack. So please take what those of us who are castrated say more seriously than anything he does.

In your case, other than your mentioning that surgical castration will have put the decision in your hands instead of the drug companies, I do not see any value to your doing that unless you're wanting to for reasons other than those you've spoken about. It simply won't change anything, and if your masculinity in your mind is wrapped up in your genitals, then having yourself surgically castrated may do you more harm than good.

Whatever happens, I sincerely wish you the best outcome possible to help you through your situation.

--LT

Thanks for the advice all. I think the main reason I am thinking of castration is this: if my body is not able to use the T anyways, because of the Propecia problem, yet my T levels are high, I am suffering all the side effects of castration without any of the benefits. At least by getting castrated I could enjoy some benefits - and if/when they figure out how Propecia screwed so many men up, I can go on HRT. LT - you mention Cheney as a quack - but is he spot on in regards to the Pros/Cons of castration? Could you guys answer this question - it might help me process my decision. What are the two worst side effects of castration, and what are the two best things/side effects about it? (From a physical/mental side effects standpoint - I am a male that identifies as male, so I am not trying to change gender - not interested in that self image effects that may come with a castration.) Thanks again all...

nullorchis (imported) · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:03 pm

Derek, you did not indicate that you have seen an endocrinologist. There are of course many hormones in our bodies. A professional needs to measure them all. Emotions are affected by these hormones, as well as by thoughts and other factors.

Have you seen a specialist regarding impotence. Don't self analyze and get all wound up into a helpless despondency.

If you are still feel that life is not worth living as an impotent man, thoughts which might lead to suicide, by all means seek counseling.

I for one had an overactive libido and since puberty always had deep convictions that are completely opposite to yours.

I felt life with my non-stop sex drive was not worth living, but that castration would relieve me from that burden.

I survived the suicidal thoughts years, but never ever changed my mind about my need for castration.

I am a virtual eunuch now, dead balls that do not produce testosterone, and I love it.

It took decades to achieve my goal.

It may take a long while and many obstacles to achieve yours (resurrection of your sex life).

And medical science is very interested in resurrecting the male libido and genital functioning.

There are a lot of men who have lost their zest and ability and there is a lot of money to be made by helping them.

Next year could bring a new medicine, a new procedure, that will solve your dilemma.

So don't give up looking, trying, don't give up hope.

I would say, hang in there, but under the circumstances, that might be inappropriate.

Hash (imported) · Post by **Hash (imported)** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:02 am

Derek, I have the same problem and I'm not sure if adding more testosterone will help, it doesn't help me. The more I add, the worse I am. Maybe you should see a endocrinologist before you do anything. Hash

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

Guys - I appreciate your concern for me...but I am not suicidal. I needed comforting words about 6 months ago when I WAS suicidal, but now I am starting to accept what Propecia did to my endocrine system.

I have been to several endos, and a PFS specialist. Basically - no amount of exogenous hormone can bring me or any PFS guy out of their hypogonadal state. This is a different animal than normal hypo....

So...I guess what I am looking for is some....normalcy? Maybe a new understanding? This is such a F***** up condition - one that 99.9999% of men couldn't imagine - yet one I am faced with every day. Again - I am not suicidal - but I am looking to you - the Eunuchs - as the only other human males on this planet that can possibly understand what us PFS guys are going through. I guess what I would like to know is if these symptoms are similar to what happens to a Eunuch when you get nut cut.

Essentially overnight - I had these symptoms:

*Insomnia/extremely poor quality sleep

*Panic attacks

*Numb Penis

*Crazy Eyes(Does this make sense? In social situations - I had trouble with eye contact - and things felt awkward with people I normally had a great rapport with)

*Less Ejaculate

*Loss of ejaculate velocity (It just oozes out - even though I still have that "shooting" feeling during orgasm)

*Decrease in libido

*Fat gain around waist that is EXTREMELY resistant to exercise (I have tried everything - before PFS(2 years ago) I was very fit, 6 pack type of guy with disciplined exercise and diet - now - the same exact, if not more rigorous, routine still leaves me with a gut - in spite of a daily calorie intake of 1500/day )

Are these normal side effects for someone that has been castrated? If so - at least I can feel that I have some connection with another group of people that KNOW what I am going through. In the early stages of PFS - I thought I was the only person in the world that had my issue. My doctors then had no answers. Except anti-depressants. And sleep medicine.

Again - my reasons for thinking about castration are two fold.

1. It will give me the benefits of castration. Right now, I doubt I will enjoy any of the benefits while suffering through many side effects.

The benefits I seek are: a greater likelihood of extended life, no prostrate or testicular cancer, increased calm(from Cheney book), increased intelligence(from Cheney book), more meaningful relationships with women (from Cheney book)

2. It will help me normalize my illness - I wake up every day and realize that while I still have my nuts, they do me no good. If I didn't have my nuts, I think it would help me deal with the symptoms as not only wouldn't I feel normal, but now I wouldn't BE normal - or at least how I was at birth - and it might help in my acceptance of my condition.

I appreciate all you've done/said so far - you guys have been very helpful. Again - I am FAR from suicidal- I mentioned that in my first post - so this isn't a cry for help. Far from it. So any advice non-suicide variety is greatly appreciated.

Derek

kristoff · Post by **kristoff** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:36 pm

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm Guys - I appreciate your concern for me...but I am not suicidal. I needed comforting words about 6 months ago when I WAS suicidal, but now I am starting to accept what Propecia did to my endocrine system.

I have been to several endos, and a PFS specialist. Basically - no amount of exogenous hormone can bring me or any PFS guy out of their hypogonadal state. This is a different animal than normal hypo....

So...I guess what I am looking for is some....normalcy? Maybe a new understanding? This is such a F***** up condition - one that 99.9999% of men couldn't imagine - yet one I am faced with every day. Again - I am not suicidal - but I am looking to you - the Eunuchs - as the only other human males on this planet that can possibly understand what us PFS guys are going through. I guess what I would like to know is if these symptoms are similar to what happens to a Eunuch when you get nut cut.

Essentially overnight - I had these symptoms:

*Insomnia/extremely poor quality sleep

Not common with castration

*Panic attacks

Varies. Are you disposed toward depression and panic, uptight, tense?

*Numb Penis

I've never experienced this, castrated 12.5 years. Not heard of it from others.

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm *Crazy Eyes(Does this make sense? In social situations - I had trouble with eye contact - and things felt awkward with people I normally had a great rapport with)

I was always self-conscious (still am), fearful of others finding out, etc., tend to become more afraid of folks.

*Less Ejaculate

Definitely

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm *Loss of ejaculate velocity (It just oozes out - even though I still have that "shooting" feeling during orgasm)

Total agreement.

*Decrease in libido

Big time, event with HRT

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm *Fat gain around waist that is EXTREMELY resistant to exercise (I have tried everything - before PFS(2 years ago) I was very fit, 6 pack type of guy with disciplined exercise and diet - now - the same exact, if not more rigorous, routine still leaves me with a gut - in spite of a daily calorie intake of 1500/day )

Yes, continuous problem - classic eunuch problem

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm Are these normal side effects for someone that has been castrated? If so - at least I can feel that I have some connection with another group of people that KNOW what I am going through. In the early stages of PFS - I thought I was the only person in the world that had my issue. My doctors then had no answers. Except anti-depressants. And sleep medicine.

Again - my reasons for thinking about castration are two fold.

1. It will give me the benefits of castration. Right now, I doubt I will enjoy any of the benefits while suffering through many side effects.

The benefits I seek are: a greater likelihood of extended life, no prostrate or testicular cancer, increased calm(from Cheney book), increased intelligence(from Cheney book), more meaningful relationships with women (from Cheney book)

2. It will help me normalize my illness - I wake up every day and realize that while I still have my nuts, they do me no good. If I didn't have my nuts, I think it would help me deal with the symptoms as not only wouldn't I feel normal, but now I wouldn't BE normal - or at least how I was at birth - and it might help in my acceptance of my condition.

I appreciate all you've done/said so far - you guys have been very helpful. Again - I am FAR from suicidal- I mentioned that in my first post - so this isn't a cry for help. Far from it. So any advice non-suicide variety is greatly appreciated.

Derek

Again, I would recommend talking it through with a counselor/psychologist. Unprepared, this can be devestating, even though you think you are ready. Very insistent, strong advice - throw away Cheney's book, it is garbage, ill-researched (he never read his citations), perpetuates the myth of eunuch calm, doesn't discuss the changes in thinking patterns (not increase in intelligence) - become less spatial, more emotional, relationships often constrained by self-consciousness of how you feel about yourself and castration. Suggest you read my Castration Primer in non-fiction section, and Jesus' "consequences of Castration" in the same section.

nullorchis (imported) · Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:16 pm

The need to be ball free was not something I ever thought about in an analytical way. After experiencing the effects of puberty I K N E W that I needed to be ball free. But decades ago there was really no one to turn to to help me get what I needed.

It is good that you are asking questions. From my lifelong journey my observation is to not expect castration to be a cure all.

In fact, look at castration as not solving your problems but maybe adding to them.

What if that happens?

Take each issue, one at a time. Work it through with the aid of experienced learned one on one specialized assistance.

Castration is merely a cure for testosterone.

And elimination of testosterone does cause non-beneficial side effects.

And while you can add in testosterone with drugs, they are not the same, and they are very expensive.

And getting a safe medical castration is not easy, not inexpensive.

Getting a hack job is very unsafe.

Now it may be frustrating coming to the realization that castration is not going to be the ultimate solution to all your problems.

But it is true.

How about putting the castration concept on the shelf for awhile, give it a rest, and give yourself a rest.

For one hour, do things you enjoy doing and put problems on hold.

Kind of like exercise.

Exercise for your intelligence and emotions. A respite.

Do an hour a day, then maybe 2, then a half a day, then a whole day.

And work towards turning your problems over to a qualified person who can help pick away at them one by one.

Think of problems like a front yard full of overgrown weeds.

You can't eliminate them on one fell swoop.

They need to be pulled (or even sprayed), one by one.

And eventually they are gone.

And they grow back.

And you deal with them one by one again.

Life is a process and never done once and for all.

artisticlicense (imported) · Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:57 am

Well, jorbie77, I do hope you at least try some of the suggestions before you chop anything off.

From what you are writing, it appears you are looking to confirm your decision to be a 'real eunuch'. But, part of what you wrote seems to be a longing for what you once were.

I'm so sorry this happened to you without your knowing.

This site is a safe place for all eunuchs, wanna-be's, and fanciers.

Some are 'made that way', and some 'born that way'.

Whether it was a personal choice, or not; there are some things that aren't worth dwelling on. You're still young, and have life ahead of you.

If it is a physical body appearance thing (body disorder), then OK. There are plenty of those members here too, me being one. Body disorders CAN crop up over-night, though they typically stem from childhood.

Still, you are left with playing the hand you were dealt.

After studying the available literature on this new 'syndrome'; PFS just confirms my disrespect for the basic medical establishment. It proves that money is more important than advice and personal knowledge/education of the product being offered. I do hope that a good judge somewhere allows someone like you to live in utter luxury on a tropical island for the rest of his life . . . at the drug manufacturer's expense. I also hope that the good physician who prescribed the stuff to you will not be left out of the judgement. You better belive he had access to the European warnings in his desk references (on line too).

If you want to try for your 'old self', please at least give the pregnenolone a decent trial. I would suggest 10 mg to start, but no more than 50 mg. If you were royally 'tanked', amped-up, and easily spanked before PFS; I don't think 50 mg would bother you too much. Some people report head-aches at higher doses.

Up-front notice; it won't happen 'over-night'. It may take a while.

It took me weeks before I started 'feeling', and looking like I did when I would wake up 'randy and ready', or respond to normal stimuli. Before, it just felt like I was wasting my time; when I didn't feel like sleeping. I still don't always respond to 'invitation', but can go along with it, and feel satisfied. (I lost the ability to get a hard erection around age 25 - I got past that a long time ago.) The 'spare tire' is gone. I sleep better.

Don't forget about the TribulusTerrestris

artisticlicense (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 am (Tribulus terrestris) (http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-tribul ... andardized) , Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma longifolia jack) (http://www.vitacost.com/action-labs-lon ... 0-capsules) ,

and Ginseng.

Most folks know what Ginseng (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginseng) is good for, but Long Jack has chemicals that the male body recognizes as testosterone, but it isn't. So, your newly deformed body might decide to make a substitution. You need at least 1000 mg (one thousand milligrams) of ROOT extract. It needs to be 'cycled'; i.e., a week on, week off. Here's a web site with lots of info (http://www.sd-200.com/).

Tribulus Terrestris has been studied pro and con, in animals and men of widly varried ages. European studies are all 'pro', in people and animals. U.S. studies are 'con' for people, but 'pro' for animal. (Hmmmm; who bought who?) It's main chemical is protodioscin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protodioscin), which increases levels of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone. It increases mental desire, and releases nitric oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_oxide) to the penis and surrounding nerves (might = no numb penis).

It is a proven proerectile aphrodisiac that you should at least give a try. It does not work 'instantly' (2-4 hours, at least). And, because it can upset some stomachs, should be taken with a meal.

These things truely have helped me, and I hope they help you.

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:21 am

Artisitic -

Thanks for the advice. Yes...I won't be chopping anything off anytime soon....I've only been stuck with the PFS for a little more than 2 years...so much like Winston Churchill(who had a naturally extremely low libido coincidentally) said, I have just begun to fight. This(thinking about castration) is part of the process...and I thank all of you for putting up with my last several posts. Its finally nice to not feel quite so alone in my condition - and while their is also a PFS forum...it tends to the negative, not surprisingly, and I try to avoid it as much as I can. I have tried without success to get pregnalone this weekend - but GNC does not carry it. I will be purchasing it online - and will be sure to stick with it for a while. While I agree the pharmaceutical industry is rife with greed, and that is a scary thing for anyone that relies on their drugs. My hope is that after this Propecia mess is cleaned up, it leads to massive reform with both the drug companies and the FDA. After Vioxx, and now Propecia, the drug companies just can't be trusted right now. And I don't want a life on a tropical island - I just want to feel like myself - to have my libido, my penis and my SOUL back....I hope with time it will all return. I am optimistic - and not without reason. PFS is a fascinating new disorder - one that should seemingly have a cure - and now that we have a PFS foundation to produce funding - full scale research should commence. Who knows - it might lead to some incredible new insights into the male endocrine system. Thanks for all your support - I will be lurking on your forum in the future - and while I may not be a traditional eunuch - at least I don't wear the "lesser seal" - I am (unfortunately) with you in spirit. Good luck in all your own personal journeys.

Derek

jorbie77 (imported) · Post by **jorbie77 (imported)** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:05 am

One more question - I know you guys think Cheney's is a quack...and I will take your word for it. One of

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:04 am the side effects of castration

that I either read in his book or saw somewhere else is crazy premature wrinkling of the skin and bags under the eyes....is this true or not for most eunuchs? I haven't had that as a PFS symptom....

Also - yes - I agree that the doctor should have looked online...but I did a Google search and just typed in Propecia - and nothing came up. Plus - my girlfriend was a DRUG REP for Shering Plough - and she gave me the go ahead. I assumed if a drug had bad consequences my drug rep GF would have heard of it...so while I did blame others, and myself for my plight - I am taking Nullorchis' advice and learning to accept the hand I've been dealt.

artisticlicense (imported) · Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:09 am

These are two on-line supplement companies I use with great results;

Vitacost.com (http://www.vitacost.com/); A discount web-store. I have only had one problem with them over the years, but they corrected it 'over-night', and gave me a $10 gift certificate! Always 3-day shipping - but your location may be different. Free shipping with orders over $49.

Pretty-much count on them for nearly everything I can't get locally; glutten-free foods, and supplements. I live so far from any 'healthfood' stores, it's cheaper to order what I want.

Wonder Labs (http://www.wonderlabs.com/); Again, always fast shipping, free on orders over $99. Don't carry everything, but everything with their label is made in their own facility. They are a bit pricey on some things.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

artisticlicense (imported) · Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:31 am

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:05 am One more question - I know you guys think Cheney's is a quack...and I will take your word for it. One of [q

uote="jorbie77 (imported)" t

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:05 am ime=1363817040]
the side effects of castration

that I either read in his book or saw somewhere else is crazy premature wrinkling of the skin and bags under the eyes....is this true or not fo
[/quote]
r most eunuchs? I haven't had that as a PFS symptom.... I'd think that would be due to stress and not necessarily have anything to do with testosterone loss. Happens to women too. Sleep loss = baggy eyes and wrinkles. Use a little hemorrhoid cream

jorbie77 (imported) wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:05 am under the eyes to tighten up. Clears up the bruising too.

Also - yes - I agree that the doctor should have looked online...but I did a Google search and just typed in Propecia - and nothing came up. Plus - my girlfriend was a DRUG REP for Shering Plough - and she gave me the go ahead. I assumed if a drug had bad consequences my drug rep GF would have heard of it...so while I did blame others, and myself for my plight - I am taking Nullorchis'

advice and learning to accept the hand I've been dealt.

Remember, you are just a number to your doctor, and especially the pharmaceutical companies; not to disparage your GF . . . I'd be amiss to think she did not know, or did not discount the 'margins' of side-effects reported. That's what a physician does. 1-in-a few thousand deaths, etc., = go-ahead with the FDA, and "OK" with any physician. Your girlfriend may have discounted any known reporting due to the hushed-up documentation left off U.S. labeling. To sell drugs to physicians, the drug reps NEED the literature. It's all about sales and numbers.

Bing search (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Propecia+L ... FORM=R5FD6) = 585,000 results for Propecia side-effects, lawsuits, advice . . .

Schering-Plough was purchased by Merck Pharma (http://www.msppharma.com/msp_jv/mspphar ... /index.jsp) - Merck had to deal witrh a huge mess of lawsuits over Vytorin and Zetia (http://www.pharmaceutical-business-revi ... esolve_law suits_090805), that Schering-Plough left behind. Testement to their 'honesty'. In 2004, Schering-Plough was accused of marketing gimmicks and payoffs to doctors (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/27/busin ... r=USERLAND) for prescribing the company's pharmaceutical products.

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