Circumcisions taking more and more skin off down the penis shafts now ?

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

From what I see in locker rooms and in online naked self photos of American men, the men over 50 are more likely to mostly be circumcised and to be cut about one inch below the rim of their glans or dick head. But youngrr men are less likely to be circumcised since the total national percentage of circumcised infants has been steadily going lower in the last few decades. But the younger circumcised men usually have the foreskin cut off half way down the entire penis shaft, a couple inches more foreskin cut off than older men s circumcisions. Among older men its rare to see a circ scar half way down the whole penis shaft. Like double the amount of foreskin is being cut off the younger men than was cut off older men.

[paring (imported)]

I was suspecting the interest of the CIA and the Bill Clinton (a former CIA member) foundation in circumcision. Here is an interesting article found on Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 0eeb7572fb

By Richard Cohen

HOW TO BEGIN?

How to begin a column about the CIA's secret study of the effect of circumcision? You see my problem. Youunderstand. Therefore, it will come as no surprise if I begin slowly, sort of backing into the subject, telling you that I firstlearned of the CIA program in The Washington Post. There was a small story of exactly four paragraphs and it was pointed outto me by my wife who said, if I recall correctly, "Look at this." I pretended to be indignant.I read the story. It said that the CIA in the early 1960s "funded" experiments on circumcised children "to determine if theoperation left any emotional after-effects . . . The aim was to determine if circumcision at a significant stage of a child'sdevelopment produced anxieties such as fear of castration . . ." It went on a bit more and ended with the news that theconclusions, if any, were not revealed. I waited.I waited for the other shoe to drop. I waited for some senator or congressman or anybody to yell bloody murder. Nothing, Iwaited for someone to ask for an investigation. Nothing. I waited for an editorial, somebody maybe asking what business it wasof the CIA's to find out anything about circumcision. Nothing. I waited for a press release from the ACLU, pointing out thatthere is nothing in the CIA's charter allowing it to do this kind of research. Nothing.I kept waiting. Surely someone would say something. Surely someone would write something. Surely, this was an outrage - theCIA finally going completly bonkers. I mean, even its wildest programs on mind control had to do, in a loose way, withintelligence. But this - what had this to do with anything? I waited. Nothing.So I started to ask people if they had read the story. I asked because after a while I thought maybe I was the only one who hadseen it. Most people said they didn't see it, but a few said they did. They had nothing to say about it. Every once in a while, Iwould sneak a look at the story, as if reassuring myself that it had really been in the paper. Then one day someone wrotesomething about it. It was James A. Wechsler of the New York Post and he wrote a column.He wrote about how he had seen the same story I had seen, only he had seen it in the New York Times. He wrote how no oneelse had seen it and he, too, kept wondering why nothing was being done - no one saying anything, no calls for a congressionalinvestigation, nothing but a deafening silence. He wrote about how after a while he doubted that he had seen the story, how hesearched his desk for it, how it was suddenly missing. I read that and was yelling in my head. "You read it, Jimmy, you read it.Just you and me. Jimmy, we read it. We know. No one else knows. Just you and me."Anyway, Wechsler's column didn't advance the story any, didn't tell you anything that wasn't in the first newspaper accounts ofthe experiments, and so I continued to wait for someone to give it the full treatment. It never happened, and the more I thoughtabout it, the more I thought that the ball, so to speak, was in my court.I would do a column and in this column I would say that this story about the circumcision experiments was a commentary onour times - a commentary on now blase and jaded we've become about CIA abuses. The story, after all, cmae after several yearsof disclosures about CIA abuses and cockamamy schemes - everything from an attempt to hand Fidel Castro a poison cigar("Have, have one of mine") to enlisting the Mafia in the war on Castro to recent stories about the agency's mind-controlprogram in which it dropped more mickeys into more drinks than Mickey Spillane has done in a life-time of stories. It was ourCIA, after all, that opened a bordello of sorts in San Francisco where, in the name of intelligence, it drugged unsuspecting menand watched through a two-way mirror as they engaged in sex with a presumably patriotic prostitute. After that, a circumcisionstudy pales by comparison.You read that kind of stuff and you can understand how people could become blase, shrug their shoulders at the news. Youcould understand that and you could write a column about that and you would not be wrong. But you would not be telling thetruth, either. For what vexed me more than anything about that original story was that business about the conclusions not beingrevealed. After all, let's face it - it's not a bad question. It's a question debated for generations. I wanted to know the answer.So I called the CIA, acting very reportorial and somber, and I told my business to a woman who answered the phone and shevolunteered that the agency had gotten lots of letters from people who also wanted to know what the CIA had learned aboutcircumcision. Well. I asked slyly, what do you tell them? She giggled. No comment, she said.Then I got a public informationofficer on the phone. Very pleasant. Very nice. He explained that the existence of the program had been deduced from financialrecords but the study and its conclusion, if any, were no longer available. It had been destroyed in 1973. I hung up depressed,but then I thought of something that gave me hope. I mean, you never know anymore.Maybe the Department of Agriculture will get interested.

[gay2girl (imported)]

About 15 years ago they started doing them loose and high. It was a compromise against the argument that so many nerve endings were being mutilated.

....So, now, out of fear they'll be accused of not doing it right, the hospitals are back to taking it tight.

I had heard about the looser versions, but had no idea that the trend was reversed. How do we actually know that tight is back in fashion though?

[gay2girl (imported)]

From what I see in locker rooms and in online naked self photos of American men, the men over 50 are more likely to mostly be circumcised and to be cut about one inch below the rim of their glans or dick head. But youngrr men are less likely to be circumcised since the total national percentage of circumcised infants has been steadily going lower in the last few decades. But the younger circumcised men usually have the foreskin cut off half way down the entire penis shaft, a couple inches more foreskin cut off than older men s circumcisions. Among older men its rare to see a circ scar half way down the whole penis shaft. Like double the amount of foreskin is being cut off the younger men than was cut off older men.

It's amazing, I never thought there was any logic behind this! Will have to examine more closely, lol.

I've been trying to find out more about this online. From what I read, a clamp called a Gomco was more popular in the past, and the Plastibell is more popular now, and they are supposed to be able to cut off more foreskin with a Gomco, so I would have thought it was the other way about, but I am no expert!

[gay2girl (imported)]

My circumcision, as one of aprox. 170million circumcised men still alive who were caught up in the great 'Murican foreskin round up of the 1950s to 1990s.

Why do you say to the 1990s, as most boys still are circumcised at birth? I was born in 1999 and about all the boys I knew growing up had it done. I think the "round up" still goes on!

[Paolo]

While 2 cases are hardly a study, I can offer up what I've seen while being on diaper duty for the 2'grand'sons. And that wasn't too long ago. Both are 2000's births.Both are under 10 now. Both of their sets of parents probably didn't know any better, and just went along with the routine infant circ protocol. I advised against it. I was ignored. From what I've seen,it looks as if the boys had a procedure of: cover the glans, let things relax back to normal, and just slice a bit behind the corona.This would be what my Jewish Auntie (married into the family,converted) would call a "token" circ. I couldn't tell you where the scars are. It's not something you look for when cleaning out a thermonuclear diaper, or doing damage control after a bout of explosive diarrhea! But it looks to me as if not much was taken off.

The last time I saw the older boy'spenis was this past autumn, as we were outside at his house. It's alarge place, and he was showing me the temporary little creek wherethe runoff from the fields on the slope comes through the yard. Whenyou gotta go, you gotta go, so he just pulls it out and goes. I toldhim it's more fun outside to aim it at a hole in the ground, andafter a second of surprise, I politely looked away. I asked hisfather about this behavior, and he reminded me that they do gohunting a great deal, and there's no porta-potties in the woods.That, and our sandlot town baseball league usually doesn't have the"everybody's welcome" restroom working - so the boys all usethe big trees behind the concession stand.

Of course, I'd rather have that attitude, and not the "Oh my God, someone saw me!" and freak out attitude.

[MikeGrant (imported)]

Not to hijack, but Paolo please dont let your grand kids, or anyone for that matter, play in that run off!!!!!!! Its a chemical soup of endocrine disrupting carcinogenic crap courtesy of Monsanto!

[Jorge2008 (imported)]

Why do you say to the 1990s, as most boys still are circumcised at birth? I was born in 1999 and about all the boys I knew growing up had it done. I think the "round up" still goes on!

In Estonia where I live most boys are not circumcized.

[MikeGrant (imported)]

I see Iceland are considering making it illegal, with a 6 year prison term for anyone mutilating a childs genitalia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43111800

[paring (imported)]

I see Iceland are considering making it illegal, with a 6 year prison term for anyone mutilating a childs genitalia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43111800

Germany banned circumcision, now Iceland wants to and England might follow. I hope that Canada and USA will follow too. https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/poli ... ision_for_ b/

[Paolo]

https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/

news/2018/02/20/circumcision_of_boys_already_punishable_in_iceland/

Brynjar Níelsson, high court lawyer and MP for the Independence Party points out on his Facebook page today that circumcision of boys is already punishable by law in Iceland. This comes in wake of the religious stir caused by a bill put forward by MP Silja Dögg Gunnarsdóttir of the Progressive Party recently to ban circumcision of boys.

Muslim, Jewish and even the Catholic church have condemned the bill.

The bill was featured on the BBC yesterday.

Níelsson spoke to Mbl.is and says he's not one for putting bans on everything. "There have been good arguments both for and against the bill," he says. However, he says, in Icelandic law calls for bodily harm to be punishable and that he does not think circumcision is excluded. He tells mbl.is that he's not taking a stance on the matter but just pointing this out.

The MP says to mbl.is that although circumcision of boys is not specifically mentioned in Iceland's criminal law, circumcision of girls and women is defined as an assault which means the act of circumcision is considered an assault according to law.

Níelsson takes as an example a twelve years old boy circumcised at the insistence of his parents who would then bring charges against them. He says in his opinion it would be very difficult for the courts not to recognise that a crime had been committed.

In Icelandic law, female circumcision is banned according to article 218a.

https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/poli ... ision_for_ b/

Over 400 Icelandic doctors have signed a declaration of support for the bill against the circumcision of boys in Iceland except for particular medical reason. They believe that circumcision made without such reason go against the Declaration of Geneva made by doctors.

"All operations, however technically simple in execution, have possible side effects which should weigh against their possible benefits. Medical reasons for circumcision exist, but they are very few. We believe that without such reasons that the circumcision of infant boys goes against the Declaration of Geneva and against the Helsinki declaration on a person's right to decide themselves and an informed agreement."

They point to the findings of an American study made by a pediatrician's association in 2013 where it states that the circumcision of healthy male infants in Western society has no health benefits or preventive benefit, but causes pain and can lead to serious, even prolonged side effects and goes against the UN children's rights agreement. Furthermore, they say, it goes against the Hippocratic Oath, "Primum non nocere" - "first, do no harm."

[Paolo]

Not to hijack, but Paolo please dont let your grand kids, or anyone for that matter, play in that run off!!!!!!! Its a chemical soup of endocrine disrupting carcinogenic crap courtesy of Monsanto!

Thanks. I know.

No one listens to me, though. I told them not to circumcise the two boys to begin with, but oh no...

[PetJohan (imported)]

This won't be popular but....After I'd graduated from Med School and before I completed my internship in surgery, I did my military service in the British South African Police as a Bush Surgeon. Easily 80% of the male children I saw in the bush had very serious problems with their penis caused by a lack of circumcision. In that part of the world, every man is very aware of all manner of creepies and crawlies, some quite small, that are permanently on the lookout for a warm, moist place to set up residence. What could be better than under the extended foreskin of a penis? This applies to ALL men both city and country-I routinely wore a heavy duty condom just to prevent squatters from making me their home. It's easy to say, well, yes, but that's Africa. The bulk of the United States, while hardly living in homes made from dried dung and drinking water that would kill our over protected population, still live in somewhat primitive areas which can and does include suburbia in certain places. I am pro circumcision, and pro choice, because I believe there are diseases and germs that start there and migrate into other parts of the body. Why this has become such a hot button issue in the past decade or so eludes me but it has. We seem to have gone through a modified "Green" period during which women found ways to give birth that would have shocked my good Zulu mothers. Still, the health issue is a real one and to duck it saying that "natural" is better is unfortunate. Let us remember that in many of the Orthodox Christian Churches, the major winter celebration is remembering the Circumcision of Jesus.

Then there's this. I have difficulty trying to persuade an eighteen year old to drop by his friendly neighbourhood urologist and have his penis whittled on. As they say in Honolulu, "Nevah Hoppen". Adult males are only less sensitive on the topic indeed they'll say, with pride, they've had a vasectomy before revealing they went in for a circumcision.

As to hospitals charging outrageous sums to perform a very simple procedure, that is wrong. Some parent coherent enough to understand should have to sign off on this and the charge? Fifty bucks, it is a medical procedure and they will charge for it. One way to stop them is to tell your insurance carrier that you would appreciate them telling the hospital or birthing centre or wherever that they will not pay for a circumcision. That out to make them more pensive about what to do and when to do it. And do not get me started on natural childbirth at home.....want to up the odds of your child dying in the first few days of life, that's one way to see that it might happen....

[TopManFL (imported)]

I am pro circumcision,

You mention the health benefits of circumcision. But, your example of African tribes with no modern hygiene falls far short of comparing apples to apples.

So, let's compare apples to apples:

Parents to Doctor: "He's perfect, nothing wrong with him. Just one thing, doctor. His brother, his father, his three uncles, both his grandfathers and two of his great uncles all had emergency appendectomies before the age of 15. Can you take out his appendix now. Just to avoid an emergency in the future."

Doctor: "But, there is nothing wrong with his appendix now. It's perfectly healthy and I can't surgically remove a healthy part of your baby, sorry"

Parents: "Oh, well, that makes sense. But, can you circumcise him?"

Doctor: "Of course, someone will be in to collect him shortly and he'll be back in your room before you know it".

Now, see the apples to apples?

1 in 10 american men have their appendix out (if they don't die from it - as I almost did) Most before the age of 12 (mine was age 10 three days after it burst).

1 in 300,000 men in Europe require a medical circumcision in adulthood.

Between foreskins and the appendix, we'd save a great many more lives with appendectomies post natal.

Continuing apples to apples

470 men die every year in the United States from Breast Cancer. Yes, Breast Cancer can affect men and kill them. That's 470 men after they go through mastectomies, chemo and radiation. Which is far less than the number of men in Europe (a mostly uncircumcised population) who die from penile cancer.

Again, if we are attempting to save lives, shouldn't we remove baby boys breast buds at birth?

Logic evades, medicine fails and parents fall trap to bad information when it comes to circumcision.

[Paolo]

Yep, here we go again. I think this about the 15th time in 20 years...

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

Hey Paolo,

Sorry you get stuck being dad and referee to us rowdy guys so much. I was honestly thankful you threw a bucket of cold water on us posting yesterday as we were taking off our shirts to fight on that other post. I wasn t being sarcastic in my thank you to you on there. It might have seemed that way in print.

I feel bad I wrecked his interesting post by getting pissed. I hope he will try his post again so I can butt out next time and let everyone comment on and continue to discuss his interesting idea.

It might be only an old and overused excuse but I m guessing a lot of us males on here just have way too much testosterone pumping in us and that s why we are so interested in our balls and what they do to us and for us. It makes us more likely to fight to. Too many bulls in the same pasture.

Anyway, just saying thanks for putting up with us roided up toughs when we get to quarreling on here. Thanks to all the moderators on here for keeping us civil and refereed when needed..

We ll try to place nice.

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

Back on topic and looking at paring s CIA article on researching the affects of circumcision on males psyche is hard to explain away as merely government waste. A merely wasteful report is usually published and not suppressed. If the research conclusions were so unremarkable, then why deny and suppress it ?

Also the strange silence in the press mentioned in that article reminds me of how silent and uncomfortable most people, even boys and men, are in talking about circumcision at all. Most males are surprisingly silent on surgery or lack of surgery on their own penises. Surgery that is plainly obvious to everyone who ever sees our penises.

Younger guys first learning about circumcision are usually shocked either that circumcisions occur if they are uncut. Or shocked that they had any kind of surgery on their own penis and didn t know it or ever know why it was done to them if they are already cut as infants. Some young guys say it makes them queasy to hear about how circumcision is done. Once the subject is brought up in classes or in the locker rooms, most young guys do want to know more about it. All of them in discussions do ask why its even done ? The answers never make sense to them to justify cutting off foreskins. Only the bravest kids ask about it at all in the locker rooms and showets. Junior high health classes and locker room comparisons when naked in groups are when kids actually asked questions about circumcisions and saw lots of cut and uncut penises to compare.

But most males won t even ask anyone about circumcision or why its is done for religious or medical reasons. Or ask how it is done.

But most people never even discuss it with their own cut sons to explain why they were circumcised.

That is a very hard to explain cultural silence on a subject affecting every male, cut or uncut.

[Freddyjack (imported)]

here here to cutnballs2ox, I was overruled on my son because his mother wanted him to look like his older brother, he got cut

[PetJohan (imported)]

You mention the health benefits of circumcision. But, your example of African tribes with no modern hygiene falls far short of comparing apples to apples.

So, let's compare apples to apples:

Parents to Doctor: "He's perfect, nothing wrong with him. Just one thing, doctor. His brother, his father, his three uncles, both his grandfathers and two of his great uncles all had emergency appendectomies before the age of 15. Can you take out his appendix now. Just to avoid an emergency in the future."

Doctor: "But, there is nothing wrong with his appendix now. It's perfectly healthy and I can't surgically remove a healthy part of your baby, sorry"

Parents: "Oh, well, that makes sense. But, can you circumcise him?"

Doctor: "Of course, someone will be in to collect him shortly and he'll be back in your room before you know it".

Now, see the apples to apples?

1 in 10 american men have their appendix out (if they don't die from it - as I almost did) Most before the age of 12 (mine was age 10 three days after it burst).

1 in 300,000 men in Europe require a medical circumcision in adulthood.

Between foreskins and the appendix, we'd save a great many more lives with appendectomies post natal.

Continuing apples to apples

470 men die every year in the United States from Breast Cancer. Yes, Breast Cancer can affect men and kill them. That's 470 men after they go through mastectomies, chemo and radiation. Which is far less than the number of men in Europe (a mostly uncircumcised population) who die from penile cancer.

Again, if we are attempting to save lives, shouldn't we remove baby boys breast buds at birth?

Logic evades, medicine fails and parents fall trap to bad information when it comes to circumcision.

Insofar as the gross statistics you cite, you're entirely correct. However, my viewpoint is from that of the physician who sees hundreds, probably thousands of men and boys over the course of his career. True, my field was Micro-Neurosurgery but I still had to see patients in clinic and it was there I'd find their actual state of well being. If there were ever any man's jiggly, it's his genitalia, castrated or not, and I am, nullo or otherwise, it's an ongoing subject of fascination. In speaking with colleagues who practice less specific medicine that surgery, their universal complaint was patients who would show up unwashed and, those with extended foreskins seemed to feel that it was best not to wash "under there" as that damaged their penis. Now, I have no explanation for that but just to comment, dirty people are germ targets. If you want to keep your foreskin, all well and good BUT for the love of God make sure you understand or teach your boy the necessities of cleanliness....I've refused patients who on the day of surgery were so filthy that Pre-op was double masked, double gloved;....and complained to our team before the carcass was even rolled in. Doctors and hospitals do not exist to run a sort of car wash for the bug bespattered. We're here to give you a valve and ring job, not sluice you.

On a personal note. I enjoy reading your comments whether we in toto agree. Your examinations and conclusions are great examples of a thoughtful person who is interested in the topic and furthers that interest with research.

This may answer a question posed elsewhere. The shape and form of a circumcised penis skin has a lot to do with the projected size of the patient, and I do not mean just their genitals. I'm just a centimeter off 2 meters tall which meant when I was circumcised, the doctor used averages in terms of physical development which would not apply to me. Just by blind luck, I have a well shaped fold over the corona which gives me what I refer to in a non-medical term, as "good jerk room". If aesthetics are a concern, then, yes, wait until a man is in his very late teens or early 20s to have it done. But, as I've said elsewhere, I cannot imagine the sturm und drang in a contemporary household when Mom and Dad tell Junior that it's time to drop by the urologist to have surgery "there". My money is on the kid, two falls out of three....

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

The thing I wonder about is that all kinds of body parts can be injured, infected, host parasites, and have problems. But the male foreskin is the only one of all those human body parts that people want to cut off before there is any problem at all.

Medicine can save and cure all those other body parts with amputation as the very last resort if all else fails first. And amputation only in the most dangerous and severe cases.

But foreskins are cut off with no attempt to save them.

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

Freddyjack,

It is odd how women seem to be the ones deciding male infant circumcisions more than the fathers. And females so often favoring to cut their sons foreskins. Fathers seem to be ignored or over ruled by both mothers and hospital staff. How would females know what feelings and pleasures a male is losing as his foreskin is cut off? Hardly experts on the affects of circumcision or which is better for a male.

Then males wonder and worry about will girlfriends like uncut or cut penises ? Teens and 20s men get comments from both males and females in the dating process on their foreskins being cut or uncut. Females have no similar surgery in western cultures to worry about.

Lots of women do ask boyfriends and husbands to get circumcised. Men don t ask females to undergo similar surgeries.

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

Yep, here we go again. I think this about the 15th time in 20 years...

I would guess it is more like the 20th time in 15 years. --FLO--

[gay2girl (imported)]

Younger guys first learning about circumcision are usually shocked either that circumcisions occur if they are uncut. Or shocked that they had any kind of surgery on their own penis and didn t know it or ever know why it was done to them if they are already cut as infants.

Funny you say that as I had no idea as a young boy that anything was done down there, I thought I was just born that way!

[cutnbulls2ox (imported)]

Yes, that s what most infant cut boys think. Because no one ever talks about circumcision or explains it. Very young boys have to look hard to see if a small pre puberty penis is cut or not cut, especially since uncut penises can retract to look like a cut dick or roll out to look like an uncut penis to both cut and uncut boys, confusing both. Few str8 boys get to handle and compare other boys penises up close to check for foreskins.

Only when penises grow bigger at puberty and guys start really looking closely to compare how their dick stacks up to other guy s dicks does it become at all close to getting obvious who is cut and who is not. Loose circumcisions with lots of skin left can look cut and uncut in showers and locker rooms from a distance. Only the most uncut long foreskins that are not retracted, and most high n tight cut penises with no foreskin left can be spotted for certain across the room. The shorter uncut foreskins and looser cut foreskins can look either cut or uncut in fast glimpses in the showers and changing rooms.

That s why kids start asking questions at early puberty. Most young boys simply don t care much about penises and testicles before puberty anyway. Not until puberty begins and they learn about sex, and masturbation, and the intense excitement and pleasures their penises and testicles can suddenly give them. Then they start caring a lot about their own and other males genitals and sexual functions. That is the first that most boys learn anything about circumcisions and sex.

[TopManFL (imported)]

BUT for the love of God make sure you understand or teach your boy the necessities of cleanliness

How to take care of your ONE intact penis:

1. Take a shower

2. Rinse under foreskin (don't use soap) - it's a mucus membrane and you wouldn't wash you tongue and the inside of your cheeks with Ivory Soap would you?

Now, how to take care of your TWENTY finger and toe nails.

1. About every two weeks, take a shower and wash you feet well

2. Dry your body well after the shower

3. One by one with a pair of toe nail clippers clip each of your ten toe nails. Don't clip too close or you will hurt yourself, don't clip too short or smelly smegma will accumulate under them over the next fortnight. Use a nail file to take off any sharp edges.

4. Now for your finger nails, take a smaller pair of finger nail clippers, one by one clip the nails of each finger. Again, not too short, not too long. Take a nail file and file off any sharp edges.

How to take care of your TWO ears:

1. Remember ears have folds (similar to genital folds). At each shower soap up a wash cloth and gently wash behind your ears and inside each fold.

2. Repeat on the other ear - yup you have to wash all those nooks and crannies and behind both ears every day.

3. About once a month, you'll need to use an ear syringe to wash out excess ear wax. (don't use a Q-Tip inside your ear canal).

---

My mother taught me all of these ways (and more) to wash every day. Why would adding (after the age of 10 or 12 and the membrane connecting my foreskin to my glans had separated) rinse your foreskin really have added that much to my shower time?

I've refused patients who on the day of surgery were so filthy that Pre-op was double masked, double gloved;....and complained to our team before the carcass was even rolled in.

If patients without access to the ability to clean themselves that pre-op needs masks and protection to be near them are presenting for surgery, then a circumcision wouldn't help much.

Sure, homeless people without access to a regular shower get dirty. So, we circumcise our boys (but not our girls) to ensure that the 7" to 10" of skin under their penis is only as dirty as the rest of them? That doesn't really make much sense - providing the homeless with shower and laundry facilities would be more effective in keeping them clean.

But, as I've said elsewhere, I cannot imagine the sturm und drang in a contemporary household when Mom and Dad tell Junior that it's time to drop by the urologist to have surgery "there". My money is on the kid, two falls out of three....

Yes, I agree. The young adult male would most likely have some questions:

Teenage Male: "But I am clean, I wash every day - and rinse off"

Parents: "But this will make it easier"

Teenage Male: "I'll still have to wash my ears, under my arms, my neck, my butt crack and all the other bits and pieces I own. This will save me about 10 seconds at most in the shower. What over reasons?"

Parents: "Well, it is said to stop the spread of HPV"

Teenage Male: "I've been vaccinated against HPV - three times if I recall. What else?"

Parents: "There are recent studies that show circumcised men contract HIV at a 50% to 60% less rate from female to male transmission"

Teenage Male: "So, after having 15 square inches of skin is surgically amputated, I won't have to wear a condom?"

Parents: "Well, no, you'll still have to wear a condom."

Teenage Male: "What about PrEP and PEP - how effective are they"

Parents: "Almost 100% effective"

Teenage Male: "And if I combine a condom with PEP how effective is that?"

Parents: "Even closer to 100%"

Teenage Male: "So, no matter if intact or amputated my foreskin won't improve or decrease my changes of contacting HIV if I use a condom and PEP"

Parents: "Well IF you use a condom and you use PEP, you are correct. But, what if you forget to take your PEP and you con't use a condom? It happens, you know"

Teenage Male: "True, but what if I only look one way when crossing the street? My chances of getting hit by a car increase by 50%. So, how about we just assume I'll look both ways and wear a condom and take PEP, the same way you taught me to cross the street properly?"

Parents: "Hep A and B can be transmitted sexually"

Teenage Male: "Vaccinated."

Parents: "Hep C can be transmitted sexually".

Teenage Male: "True. But thee things. 1. The condom is almost 100% effective in stopping Hep C transmission. 2. Blood to blood is required for Hep C transmission, so it's rarely transmitted via sex. 3. There is a cure for Hep C - not a treatment, an outright cure. It's expensive I know, but it can be cured".

Parents: "It looks better".

Teenage Male: "I promise to never let you see it again".

Parents: "Well, you are only 17 and until you turn 18 it's our decision"

Teenage Male: "You mean if I commit a felony in this State I can be put on trial as an Adult and sentenced to up to life in prison, because I have the requisite ability to form adult thoughts. But, when it comes to deciding to circumcise me I'm a child without any ability to have thought it out?"

Parents: "Yes."

Teenage Male: "If you take me to get circumcised I'll fight, bite, kick, scream, hit, punch, and destroy the exam room and the procedure room. I'll also call Child Protective S

ervices (or Division of Family Services) and report the doctor for inappropriate touching."

Parents: "That would be unfair to the doctor".

Teenage Male: "Checkmate".

That s why kids start asking questions at early puberty. Most young boys simply don t care much about penises and testicles before puberty anyway. Not until puberty begins and they learn about sex, and masturbation, and the intense excitement and pleasures their penises and testicles can suddenly give them.

Then they start caring a lot about their own and other males genitals and sexual functions. That is the first that most boys learn anything about circumcisions and sex.

I grew up in "the middle". I mean that literally.

My Father was born in a rural county in the midwest at home, birthed by a midwife. He is not circumcised. I also assume that all the males before him weren't either. - No exact dates but think middle of the great depression.

My older brother was born right after my Dad left the Navy. He was birthed in a clinic. He is not circumcised. Again no exact dates, but think Eisenhower was President and in his first term.

I was born three years after my older brother and was the first in my family born in a hospital. I was circumcised to: 1. Look like my Dad. 2. Look like my brother and 3. Look like the other boys.

I have two younger brothers and they were also cut at birth.

I grew up in Miami. About 1/2 of the kids in my school were born in Cuba.

OK, so how well did the reasons work?.

1. I did not look like my dad. I found out that we had different circumcision statues when he was 81 years old and had a major health problem. I helped him off the toilet. So much for "looking like dad". But more important why the hell did I care? I was in my 50's by the time I even knew.

2. My older brother. Kinda didn't work out there either did it? But, he's 3 years older than me and so really, I didn't see him naked very often.

3. "The other boys". Well, between cub scouts, boy scouts, and showering in Jr. and Sr. High School, I figured out at about 11 or 12 what a circumcision was. NOBODY, NOT ONE SINGLE BOY ever mentioned anyone else's circumcision status. We simply did not care. So much for "look like the other boys.

As you might have guessed, there really is no reason I'll believe that male genital mutilation is the parent's choice and female genital mutilation will get the doctor five years in federal prison. Stop the madness.