Important New Survey

[Losethem (imported)]

Kevin Hsu is potentially a valuable academic research person who needs to be cultivated by providing him with good and valid information so that he's willing to return with his next project. Hopefully, a project well-informed by the data he collects on his first attempt. Provide good data. Provide helpful feedback to move Kevin in a useful direction.

That's why after my initial vitriolic reaction, I came back to the middle, then the 3rd time wrote a more reasoned response. It was a poorly crafted survey. I know nobody likes their work crapped on, but that is what the survey was.

While I understand there will certainly be questions about sexual activity in surveys that legitimately seek answers to who castrated/penectomized/nullified men are, what makes them tick, and how best to help them, I would believe the best way to go about it is from the mechanical side of things and life experience generally, FIRST and not the sexual aspects out of the gate. This survey came across, at least to me, as being nothing more than a sexual pursuit by the author. I felt it didn't do much of anything to get at who eunuchs are or their marginalization in society. I would speculate the vast majority are gay (or maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, being gay myself...). I would speculate the vast majority (at least the truly MtE folks) had an early age onset of the desire.

He needs to come at this from that direction. Questions like, "At what age did the desire to become a eunuch manifest itself?" instead of, "Do you fantasize about being a eunuch?" I think would be better to start off with. If online, use the radio button selectors and offer age bands, I think maybe in typical marketing age demographics, and subsets. Overall, the survey offered focused too much on sexual activity. I like fucking and all that as much as the next person, but my drive to be nullified didn't come from sex. It came from a dysphoric view of my own body, especially those bits of flesh which used to be on my body between my legs.

I encourage this young man to rescind this particular version of his survey, go back and rework it from a more mechanical/conversational point of view, then run it by his mentors (IE Jesus) before posting again. I'll give him that chance (and a pass for having put out this poor survey) if he goes back and does that.

--LT

[daifu-orchid (imported)]

A fine try, but I have to agree that it doesn't have much one might expect to answer a precisely framed question. (What question?)

It might be aimed to test a null hypothesis, but it is hard to discern what that might be.

Or it might be designed to scoop up and tabulate data for comparison, in which case it might be expected to be precisely laid out and validated for authenticity of answers.

I commend the effort, but it needs a lot more clarity of thought before it's ready. I must add that it surprises me that an IRB gave it the go-ahead in the present form.

Please polish it up, make it ready for prime time and make the most of this rare opportunity.

Rare for the researcher to have access to this group, and rare for this group to have a chance at being better understood.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

To be fair to Kevin I wonder how well any of us, even those who are academic, would write a survey for the 'Adult Baby/Diaper lovers'?

I'd have no idea what are the right questions to ask, and would probably get roasted as a result!

[notsomanly (imported)]

I must add that it surprises me that an IRB gave it the go-ahead in the present form.

As an academic myself, I have experience with IRB protocols. They don't typically critique a survey like this. Their role is to assure as much as possible that no harm will come to the subjects, including keeping their responses confidential. The study itself can be badly flawed, but most funded projects went through peer review by a panel of experts in the discipline who evaluate the specifics of the science.

I stopped taking the survey part way through because I felt I'd already spent more time taking it than I had and the progress bar was only about 20% done. I'm generally skeptical of surveys and wonder about the quality of the data if the participants become annoyed by its length and its flaws. As for the survey itself, I agree with others who point out that it doesn't sample much about anything about those of us who are motivated primarily by a desire to be rid of our sexuality. I think this is the aspect of this community that most needs to be presented to the general public. I'd gladly answer a survey that led to truly enlightening publications of this sort. Some of us here are sexual and remain so after castration, others not so much or not at all.

[Begoneboy (imported)]

Thank you Paolo for your remarks to PetJohan. After the many years of university to acquire my EE I often asked myself the question at to why many of the so called professors I endured lectures from did not go into politics instead. That was their true calling. After all, our universities should be teaching our youth how to learn not what to learn. The great fallacy of modern higher learning.

This PetJohan needed to be put in his place and your response to him is exactly why I support this site. Please PM me once again on where to send a paypal donation to help continue this site as I have lost the link I used before.

While our youth often make many mistakes along their journey as this student did in the way he framed his survey I applaud the effort. Perhaps his survey will be changed in the future to be one more accurately seeking data on the eunuch community rather than data to support a preconceived conclusion. Let us hope so because we need our youth to lead us into a brighter future.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

I've completed the survey.

To be fair once I got past the 'are you a pedophile?' or 'interested in small furry animals?' bit, it wasn't too bad. I'm quite glad that I had a couple of false starts as I then spent more time on giving detailed written answers where appropriate.

Though I do feel like I've just had to repeat until I'm blue in the face that I don't find castration arousing!

(Frankly now I'm on Androcur I don't find anything sexually arousing - honestly I'm more interested in eating cake..!)

[nutless1 (imported)]

One must consider that those on the panel who reviewed the topic and survey for research likely have no knowledge or experience as a eunuch or eunuch wannabe. It is a forum like this with both positive and negative comments that will lead to more targeted research surveys. The greatest challenge I see is such a diverse universe of persons from whom to survey is so small.

As an academic myself, I have experience with IRB protocols. They don't typically critique a survey like this. Their role is to assure as much as possible that no harm will come to the subjects, including keeping their responses confidential. The study itself can be badly flawed, but most funded projects went through peer review by a panel of experts in the discipline who evaluate the specifics of the science.

I stopped taking the survey part way through because I felt I'd already spent more time taking it than I had and the progress bar was only about 20% done. I'm generally skeptical of surveys and wonder about the quality of the data if the participants become annoyed by its length and its flaws. As for the survey itself, I agree with others who point out that it doesn't sample much about anything about those of us who are motivated primarily by a desire to be rid of our sexuality. I think this is the aspect of this community that most needs to be presented to the general public. I'd gladly answer a survey that led to truly enlightening publications of this sort. Some of us here are sexual and remain so after castration, others not so much or not at all.

[sexualitylab (imported)]

Thank you sincerely to everyone who has participated in the survey and in this thread. I have especially valued the honest criticism that many of you have provided and the space here for everyone to voice their thoughts openly. It will be important for my work in this area, and for any future work in

studying eunuchs and eunuch wannabes.

[BiBikerFL (imported)]

Hey Jesus, When can we expect to see results? Took the test. Some good questions and insight and some ver odd questions. I wonder what the association to autism and Asperger and eunuch or castration.

[Freddyjack (imported)]

Paolo; you go girl!

[PetJohan (imported)]

As an academic myself, I have experience with IRB protocols. They don't typically critique a survey like this. Their role is to assure as much as possible that no harm will come to the subjects, including keeping their responses confidential. The study itself can be badly flawed, but most funded projects went through peer review by a panel of experts in the discipline who evaluate the specifics of the science.

I stopped taking the survey part way through because I felt I'd already spent more time taking it than I had and the progress bar was only about 20% done. I'm generally skeptical of surveys and wonder about the quality of the data if the participants become annoyed by its length and its flaws. As for the survey itself, I agree with others who point out that it doesn't sample much about anything about those of us who are motivated primarily by a desire to be rid of our sexuality. I think this is the aspect of this community that most needs to be presented to the general public. I'd gladly answer a survey that led to truly enlightening publications of this sort. Some of us here are sexual and remain so after castration, others not so much or not at all.

Good question; Who authorized this? Who was his committee and there had to be one as he claims to be a doctoral candidate. It goes beyond me that any school with any sort of reputation, and that would include Northwestern, would let this sort of self serving and possibly self servicing trash out for public inclusion. Here's another question; Where else has this survey been posted or had access made to it? Anyone know? I'm perfectly willing to call NWU and make very specific enquiries not only about the survey, the genesis for it but Kevin Hsu in specific. Had he tried to launch this from my Alma Mater, USC, he'd have found himself on Vermont as a speed bump. Or, as a dirty trick on them, transferred to UCLA. I cannot get away from the thought that this whole thing was a canard done by one-or more-kiddies for their own puerile interests and sexual pleasures.

[fhunter]

Going through this right now.

"10 years from now, how likely do you think you are to still be a eunuch wannabe?"

sure - would castration stop being a eunuch wannabe? would being disinterested in it (due to say, sexual reasons) would count?

Two distinct endings. Same answer. No differentiation.

I am not even mentioning the sexual orientation questions...

If you work with non-binary/unsure of gender persons - does heterosexual count as opposite sex? opposite gender? both? none?

<insert here facedesk.gif something cute>

"Felt pressured by others to be a man with normal genitalia, although I don't really feel like one." - yea, like sure. (exhaling slowly.... I can like totally imagine that situation: "grow back a pair, will ya?" </sarcasm> Oooooohmmmm....)

"Felt, unlike most men, that I have to work at being a man with normal genitalia." (<sarcasm> sorry guys, I can't join your fallometry session, no balls, can't get hard</sarcasm>).

"Acted as a castrated man at home." (you either are or you are not... how????)

PS. Ok, all those are probably valid questions. It is probably me not being a native English speaker.

[PetJohan (imported)]

This personal information removed at the request of NW members for privacy reasons.

Paolo

[Paolo]

I need a link to take me to where you got this information, for the purpose of verifying that this is public data that can be accessed by anyone online who knows how to look for it.

I'm leaving this here for now, but I won't guarantee that another Admin won't pull it, or that Kevin will object to it. I also hope that Northwestern will not mind this data being reproduced here.

It's fine that you don't like the survey. It's fine that you question it. Many readers here did not approve of the survey.

Addition: And furthermore, the more I read this post, it resorts to nothing more than a personal attack on Kevin. And that's uncalled for.

HOWEVER, and as it's been stated more than once, ANYONE younger than 50 with the smallest amount of interest in this topic MUST be encouraged. Flawed or not, a bad survey or not, it is a learning opportunity for Kevin, and anyone else who may come after this.

NO, it was not the best survey ever. But it was an interest. It was an attempt to learn about this community, without the usual contempt and "Freakshow" attitude that so many have shown in the past.

Also, I do NOT approve of the manner in which you express your disapproval of the survey, etc.

For now, the post stands. However, if anyone related to the post complains about it, I will (with the approval of the other Admins) fully cooperate with them on what to do with this post.

For now, DON'T pull a stunt like this again. It may seem trivial at first read, but it has the possibility of becoming more.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

PS. Ok, all those are probably valid questions. It is probably me not being a native English speaker.

Honestly, it's got nothing to do with your english. They had me scratching my head too.

I think that there are quite a few problems with this survey, and it deserves constructive criticism. I found a lot of the questions to be either uncomfortable, irrelevant or daft, but then I guess it has to cover a very diverse group of people, and a question which seemed daft to me may not be to someone else.

(But I don't think it (or Kevin Hsu personally) deserves the kind of attack some seem to think is necessary.)

[PetJohan (imported)]

This information was got from the

Northwestern University Department of Psychology,

the area of study Hzu claims to be in. I verified that this information was open to the public and that any and all parts of it were permissible to be reprinted, discussed, disseminated in any way the view may wish. To put it bluntly, this was done to allow anyone to see all the studies currently underway at NWU in specific departments. As you go through, you will note that there are adjunctive references available for "further reading". I did NOT pursue those as I felt the corpus provided the information from which to draw further enquiries.

You refer, Sir, to what I have done as a "stunt". If you choose to see it that way, then that's your opinion. I have never been less than candid as to my opinions of the study and, frankly of the person who purports to have put it together.

Perhaps the reasons that this is a group aging out lie in the seeds or your own invective; However much we may wish the young to join us, there is clearly a clique which is inviolate to any person who comes with candor and genuine-ness. These persons look down, gently and with some annoyance but giving the appearance of verisimilitude when there is none. Those who run this sight, do not really want ideas, concepts, or, horrors, but must seem to be benevolent and, at least moderately inclusive. It's the gang of five versus the unlettered.

I have just lost my whole country, Zuid Afrika, to peoples who who feel they know better what to do and the answer to their dilemma is to toss out and, ultimate, summarily murder, those who oppose them. I do not know anyone connected with this, no attempt was made to offer friendship or even an appreciation for my work and....unless you're sitting in this overly fattened troika, you'll always be an outsider and there is the problem; When the young come, and they do, they find a tolerant amusement but no interest, no effort to sustain their desire to stay and see what they can learn and/or offer. By your standards, and comments, it would seem I wasted six years in Grad school and ten years in Med school.

I do not apologize for my actions as, you will concede, it's more than anyone else did apart from pat Kevin on the head and suggest that, well, he's trying. True. He's trying alright and he tries my patience with his ill conceived, worded and structured survey. One last question; Who here knew him and agreed to take and publish the survey? Did Northwestern University make this request or was it simply Kevin knowing someone and shellacking them into believing what he'd done had validity?

[PetJohan (imported)]

"

If you have any questions, please contact [email protected].

"

This link, provided by you, does not open. I asked several colleagues using different computers and web browsers to see if they could gain admittance; They could not.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

PetJohan,

Your education does you credit, unfortunately your arrogance and bad manners let you down.

I have found this forum to be nothing other than friendly and welcoming, and the administrators to be fair and very tolerant of different views and new members opinions.

You are behaving like a troll, and it is not your job to try to chase off anyone who takes an academic interest in this community.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

"

If you have any questions, please conta

ct [email protected].

"

This link, provided by you, does not open. I asked several colleagues using different computers and web browsers to see if

they could gain admittance; They could not.

I think you'll find that is an email address and not a web link.

x

[PetJohan (imported)]

Ever met a surgeon, well, okay, OBGYN but they face far more happy endings, who isn't arrogant? There's an old quote that is spot on here. "Yea tho I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil as I'm the meanest mutha fucka in the valley." That's a surgeon going in to help maybe save a life, maybe restoring something that seemed lost. You cannot be a surgeon unless you have the absolute precision of your own beliefs. I cannot stand there, my double glasses on, looking up and seeming to say..."Uh, Kelly retractor or go for it, I'm taking votes, people". You may also have noticed that, as a group, surgeons tend to be clique-ish,.,.,.just like the people who run this site. When you have worked hard and long to build something then, certainly, if you see a yahoo of whom it might be believed is out for no good, then it's time to get the settlers in a circle and repel anyone who has a parallax view.

I'm an old man, do not take the patient load I once did. Had myself castrated so I could better concentrate on my work, restoring people to health, often to life. So, yep, you got it, I'm arrogant and all the other bits of vitriol. But bad manners? Did I spit on your shoe? You do not know me personally and I don't know you, love to meet you, exchange ideas and thoughts and, I promise you, I'll listen very carefully to what we might say to one another.

As to the survey, my sole concern is that it's junk science and somehow got slipped over the transom hoping it would appear without out notice. Didn't work. For whatever I may think, read the other comments written by people with some education; No University would allow anything under their brand out with the clanging errors that are contained within this. For arrogance, I suggest this is a very young, very callow young man letting his ego having a lovely time...but his ego dragged him around a dark corner and now he's facing his own lack of perfection as pointed out by many.

Again, we don't know each other and that's rather too sad, given our rugged individualism, we could probably storm any thing and take it down.

Thank You, Sir, for your comments. They are much appreciated.

Petr-Johan

[PetJohan (imported)]

I think you'll find that is an email address and not a web link.

x

That is the email address given by the Psychology Department of Northwestern U. It didn't work for me but...one would think, to include an email address and encourage persons to use it for further information, it would function. I only put down what there without comment as to its viability. Take it up with them.

PJ

[Zebedeee (imported)]

Ever met a surgeon, well, okay, OBGYN but they face far more happy endings, who isn't arrogant? There's an old quote that is spot on here. "Yea tho I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil as I'm the meanest mutha fucka in the valley." That's a surgeon going in to help maybe save a life, maybe restoring something that seemed lost. You cannot be a surgeon unless you have the absolute precision of your own beliefs. I cannot stand there, my double glasses on, looking up and seeming to say..."Uh, Kelly retractor or go for it, I'm taking votes, people". You may also have noticed that, as a group, surgeons tend to be clique-ish,.,.,.just like the people who run this site. When you have worked hard and long to build something then, certainly, if you see a yahoo of whom it might be believed is out for no good, then it's time to get the settlers in a circle and repel anyone who has a parallax view.

I'm an old man, do not take the patient load I once did. Had myself castrated so I could better concentrate on my work, restoring people to health, often to life. So, yep, you got it, I'm arrogant and all the other bits of vitriol. But bad manners? Did I spit on your shoe? You do not know me personally and I don't know you, love to meet you, exchange ideas and thoughts and, I promise you, I'll listen very carefully to what we might say to one another.

As to the survey, my sole concern is that it's junk science and somehow got slipped over the transom hoping it would appear without out notice. Didn't work. For whatever I may think, read the other comments written by people with some education; No University would allow anything under their brand out with the clanging errors that are contained within this. For arrogance, I suggest this is a very young, very callow young man letting his ego having a lovely time...but his ego dragged him around a dark corner and now he's facing his own lack of perfection as pointed out by many.

Again, we don't know each other and that's rather too sad, given our rugged individualism, we could probably storm any thing and take it down.

Thank You, Sir, for your comments. They are much appreciated.

Petr-Johan

I have met a few surgeons and I found them to be intelligent and charming, but I of course have no idea what they are like to work with!

I mention bad manners not because you have been rude to me, you haven't, but because I think your questioning of Kevin Hsu's credentials without any evidence is a bit below the belt. You will notice that others are polite enough not to question your credentials.

I respect your opinions and agree with points you have raised in other threads (notably the risks associated with self medicating), but I just think that on this occasion you are taking it a little too far and making it too personal.

If your fears turn out to be correct, then fair enough. But I think it makes sense to at least give Kevin a chance.

[Paolo]

This informationwas got from the

Northwestern Uni

versity Department of Psychology,

the area of study Hzu claims to be in. I verified that thisinformation was open to the public and that any and all parts of itwere permissible to be reprinted, discussed, disseminated in any waythe view may wish. To put it bluntly, this was done to allow anyoneto see all the studies currently underway at NWU in specificdepartments. As you go through, you will note that there areadjunctive references available for "further reading". Idid NOT pursue those as

I felt the corpus provided the informationfrom which to draw further enquiries.

Well, so longas you can guarantee that it's information free for publicconsumption and that it's OK to repost it here - without providinga link or any other proof of that in the repost - then I supposeit's all right to just

take your word for it.

You refer, Sir, towhat I have done as a "stunt". If you choose to see it thatway, then that's your opinion. I have never been less than candid asto my opinions of the st

udy and, frankly of the person who purportsto have put it together.

Yes, there wasdissatisfaction expressed by

other members with the survey.

Perhaps thereasons that this is a group aging out lie in the seeds or your owninvective; However much we may wish the young to join us, there isclearly a clique which is inviolate to any person who comes withcandor and genuine-ness. These persons look down, gently and withsome annoyance but giving the appearance of verisimilitude when thereis none. Those who run this sight, do not really want ideas,concepts, or, horrors, but must seem to be benevolent and, at leastmoderately inclusive. It's

the gang of five versus the unlettered.

It's not oftenthat I run across a word that I have to look up. Congratulations onyour use of the word "invective". You're about to see some moreof it. I would guess that in this "group of 5", you mean me,Kristoff, Talula, Uncle Flo, and Jesus. In explanation of yourobservation of our being inviolate, that would be because we:

Keep the site up and running, based on donations only, and out-of pocket-expense

Do this without a pay area, or by running annoying ads

Maintain the site on a daily basis, including trying to keep it free of trolls, spam, etc.

Put in a lot of time for no compensation, as this entire site (stories included) is more of a labor of love, with the belief that it is important to have this information out there for other

s of a like mind to find.

I have just lostmy whole country, Zuid Afrika, to peoples who who feel they knowbetter what to do and the answer to their dilemma is to toss out and,ultimate, summarily murder, those who oppose them. I do not knowanyone connected with this, no attempt was made to offer friendshipor even an appreciation for my work and....unless you're sitting inthis overly fattened troika, you'll always be an outsider and thereis the problem; When the young come, and they do, they find atolerant amusement but no interest, no effort to sustain their desireto stay and see what they can learn and/or offer. By your standards,and comments, it would see

m I wasted six years in Grad school and tenyears in Med school.

Please pointout, and link to, posts made here which are talking about youralleged wasted time in Med school. I should probably point out, thatyou are not the first person who has come onto the forums and claimedto be a medical doctor. I don't know if you are, and I don't care ifyou are. Over the years, numerous posts have been pulled claimingjust that. There's a big difference in our allowing posts such as "Idid this, and it worked for me with no complications." versussomething like "I'm a doctor, so you need to do this." Oneexample is the thread about alcohol injections, with the notice atthe beginning that we don't recommend it and that it can bedangerous. I don't want your credentials or identity verified, andwould never ask for them. That's revealing too much. So if you arefor real, that's great! Work on that attitude, though. I've never meta doctor that I liked. I'm beginning to think there's a class inmedical school for personality. Bad ones, at that. It must be an easyclas

s to get high marks in.

I do not apologizefor my actions as, you will concede, it's more than anyone else didapart from pat Kevin on the

head and suggest that, well, he's trying.

Yes, he'sTRYING. He has an interest. He offered. What is it about this thatyou d

on't seem to understand?

True. He's tryingalright and he tries my p

atience with his ill conceived, worded andstructured survey. One last question; Who here knew him and agreed totake and publish the survey? Did Northwestern University make thisrequest or was it simply Kevin knowing someone and shellacking them

into believing what he'd done had validity?

So, again, youresort to slamming Kevin. As the poster, zebedeee points out: Youred

ucation does you credit, unfortunately your arrogance and badmanners let you down. I have found this forum to be nothing otherthan friendly and welcoming, and the administrators to be fair andvery tolerant of different views and new members opinions. You arebehaving like a troll, and it is not your job to try to chase offanyone who takes an academic interest in this community.

Yes, you AREbehaving like a troll. We've been dealing with those for about 20years now, and you're about to find out just how long a troll will beindulged before being shown the door.

So, instead oftrolling, or pseudo-trolling this forum, what are you doing about thematter?

Are you doinganything to offer safe, medically sound genital alterations/removals?Are you working on a 'good' survey to post, to use to launch your ownstudy? Are you doing a study already? If you're a doctor, would youperform (or refer someone to a colleague) and/or counsel a patientwho asked about castration? I hear that Dr. Arnkoff in Michigan, USA,is making a pile of money. One might want to look into that. Are youdoing anything at all to make things easier for the "powers thatbe", namely, the DSM writers and those who make the rules thatgovern treatment, in regards to male-to-eunuch matters of gender?

If you are,then GREAT! Tell us about them. Tell us about them, instead ofposting:

"Look at me!"

"This surveysucks!"

"Kevin is anidiot."

"The Staff ofthis forum are all members of an overly fattened, invective troika."For the laymen, we're all a bunch of self-important assholes thatlook down on forum users like something we just found on the bottomof our shoes.

You alsomention offers of friendship and appreciation of your work.Friendship based on what? Disruption of the forum, and continuing toflame a poster/researcher, after being told to stop? And what work?What is this 'work' that you have done, and where we can we see it?What have you done here in the three months and 53 posts that you'vebeen registered?

As far ascomparing this site to what is going on in South Afrika, don't evengo there, pal.

While it is, no doubt, tragic, it's also apolitical topic, and therefore not going to be discussed here. If youreally feel that this site is run by people comparable to thoserunning your home country, then perhaps it's time for you to leave.

[Zebedeee (imported)]

Well those are some impressive credentials, and I guess they give the right to be arrogant...

But I think that you are abusing the privilege!



Anyway, it's time for bed said Zebedeee...

Boing!

[PetJohan (imported)]

The data collected from half your questionnaire has absolutely no value since it only applies to people with testicles wanting to be a woman or sexual fantasies about being castrated with no valid choices for any non-fantasy non-transsexual data other than aborting the questionnaire completely and dumping their data. People who actually have no testicles have no valid choices on most of the questions. Your published results will be skewed so badly they won't be able to be taken very seriously. It actually reminded me of the trolling we see here so often. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Elsewhere, Paolo feels I'm a troll because I vigorously, as a Medical Doctor, and for other reasons, oppose study. I'm told to 'clean up my act' or I'll be booted out. And then he says he has no use for medical doctors after I provided two pages of my credentials, something no one else here has done.

Thanks for semi-seeing what I see in the problems of this survey. PJ