Requesting opinions about 'adult photos' here.

[WheelyFixed]

As far as I know, there was been a long standing rule on EAv2 that absolutely no photos were allowed (and there was no ability to post them). Even Avatars needed to be 'workplace safe' with no explicit photos of genitals allowed...

We had continued that here on EAv3 (including my making a couple of requests to clean up avatars) but hadn't made a formal published rule about it, and hadn't turned off the ability to upload photos.

Recently a couple of quite explicit photos were uploaded in this thread, posting.php?mode=reply&t=23394 and as a result we have had a good bit of discussion among the board staff trying to reach a consensus about whether we should allow them or not.

There are obvious potential legal concerns, and I firmly believe that we will need to have very careful guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable if we allow any photos. I also think that there is definite reason not to want to turn this site into another one of those Reddit type fantasy / fetish sites w/ lots of photos that have more experience w/ Photo-shop than reality.... On the flip side, one can argue that it can be useful to those considering surgery to have a better idea of what the outcome of different options looks like...

What I had proposed for initial rough draft guidelines:

1. All posts with images need moderator approval.
2. Pictures must be of clearly of age adults.
2A. Pictures must be of person posting, or with clear consent of the subject to have them posted.
3. Eunuchs / Nullos / other 'male' modifications only (other subjects aren't relevant to our reason for existence)
4. Static poses only, no sexual activity, masturbation, etc.
5. Pictures need to be relevant to the topic thread / post content
6. Moderator rulings that reject pictures need to state why they aren't acceptable, and are otherwise at their discretion, excessive arguing about a decision can be grounds for a ban...

Now I'd also add "REAL" photos only, no cartoons, AI or obvious photo editing (beyond possibly removing identifying background details)

Other options include having a special area for posts w/ photos, and possibly adding blurs or NSFW labels that need to be 'clicked through' to view the photos (to avoid problems with workplaces or other areas that restrict adult images) I'm calling this "NSFW Protections" in the poll.

I've decided that it is worth asking your opinions as members of the community... Note that this is just for information, it does NOT necessarily mean we will adopt the 'winning' position.... Please take a vote, and feel free to reply adding explanations or other suggestions and comments...

WheelyFixed

[Evolve]

I voted to not allow them at all on this site. I feel that any such allowance of such material has the potential to detract from the underlying purpose of this site as an educational and support resource.

[Sakebigoe]

I'm not necessarily completely opposed but if the decision to allow photos does go forward they absolutely should be only allowed in their own index and preferably with the NSFW protections. I prefer the primary focus of this forum to be discussion which doesn't really require sharing adult photos, though I can see the argument that the original EA was an offshoot of BMEZINE which absolutely had adult photos.

[Swim_1650]

I would say no, I think it would definitely change the mood of the site- you might just end up being effectively a porn site. I suppose if you wanted to a mild compromise people who really want to could submit pictures for review and they could be posted in a gallery for informational purposes i.e. not sexualized, porn, "adult content". In such a case I would not suggest not attaching the user name to the submitted picture. There are certainly plenty of other places online where where the less appropriate pictures can be shared.

Honestly I would suggest avoiding potential issues by continuing to not allow any adult content. Or you'll have to I assume buy a service to validate state IDs, credit cards, etc.

I don't know much about running a website let alone a website with adult content. Some US states are requiring sites use age and driver ID verification for users in those states to access sites with "pornographic content". I wouldn't want to get involved with state lawmakers or bureaucrats interpretation of sexual content. I can only imagine the legal consequences for violating such identity verification laws would be severe as would be the legal defense costs if you try to fight it.

EDIT: Depending on the state:
- Thousands of dollars per day without verification or per user accessing the site w/multiplier fines if a child accesses the site
- In some states its a felony charge not to verify age
- Some state allow parents to civilly sue the website owner if they're child is exposed to porn
- Website domain shutdowns and seizures.

I wouldn't put it past some of these states to go after anything they can remotely justify. And in this hypothetical case they would surely construe the forum content as promoting deviant behavior and genders outside the binary.

[Neutrum260725]

I would like to handle this the same way as in EAv2, in order to keep the forum as it is now and as it was under EAv2. Back then, a user (H.) uploaded his 15 images to a dedicated page and then wrote a somewhat cryptic post in the forum explaining how to access it. After all, this option is open to everyone. It also avoids potential legal issues.

[dandelion]

I don't know much about running a website let alone a website with adult content. Some US states are requiring sites use age and driver ID verification for users in those states to access sites with "pornographic content". I wouldn't want to get involved with state lawmakers or bureaucrats interpretation of sexual content. I can only imagine the legal consequences for violating such identity verification laws would be severe as would be the legal defense costs if you try to fight it.

EDIT: Depending on the state:
- Thousands of dollars per day without verification or per user accessing the site w/multiplier fines if a child accesses the site
- In some states its a felony charge not to verify age
- Some state allow parents to civilly sue the website owner if they're child is exposed to porn
- Website domain shutdowns and seizures.

I wouldn't put it past some of these states to go after anything they can remotely justify. And in this hypothetical case they would surely construe the forum content as promoting deviant behavior and genders outside the binary.

I actually did quite a bit of research on this subject. Even without any images of real persons, FA may still somewhat counts as one of those websites that such age verification laws affect. But then last I checked, only 4 states include non-commercial sites in their laws. That's why FA only age-gate those 4 states and VPN users.

The site owner lives and operate out of Australia, which is out of any state's jurisdiction. That said wheely resides in the U.S. so he could be held liable.

[Swim_1650]

I don't know much about running a website let alone a website with adult content. Some US states are requiring sites use age and driver ID verification for users in those states to access sites with "pornographic content". I wouldn't want to get involved with state lawmakers or bureaucrats interpretation of sexual content. I can only imagine the legal consequences for violating such identity verification laws would be severe as would be the legal defense costs if you try to fight it.

EDIT: Depending on the state:
- Thousands of dollars per day without verification or per user accessing the site w/multiplier fines if a child accesses the site
- In some states its a felony charge not to verify age
- Some state allow parents to civilly sue the website owner if they're child is exposed to porn
- Website domain shutdowns and seizures.

I wouldn't put it past some of these states to go after anything they can remotely justify. And in this hypothetical case they would surely construe the forum content as promoting deviant behavior and genders outside the binary.

I actually did quite a bit of research on this subject. Even without any images of real persons, FA may still somewhat counts as one of those websites that such age verification laws affect. But then last I checked, only 4 states include non-commercial sites in their laws. That's why FA only age-gate those 4 states and VPN users.

The site owner lives and operate out of Australia, which is out of any state's jurisdiction. That said wheely resides in the U.S. so he could be held liable.

That's very interesting, I could totally see that. The internet was originally presented in its advent as an unregulated marketplace of ideas that would transcend political boarders and allow the spread of ideas while users were anonymous. The internet has not lived up to that utopian dream. Certainly child exploitation and other crimes should be monitored, investigated, and prosecuted. I understand and agree with keeping underage children from consuming explicit content. That said, I'm not sure it's is really the job of the government- at least not by micromanaging the internet. Kids just don't magically have devices with web browsers and internet access. Parents be the ones controlling their kids internet access. I'm old enough to remember when computers had parental controls.

[Neutrum260725]

To protect everyone involved, especially the moderators, it should be handled as legally as possible. That's why I vote for "Absolutely not, continue the existing prohibition." No one can have an interest in seeing, for example, "Wheely" and everyone else get into any legal trouble because they're volunteering here.