Yet another survey?

[JesusA]

I had lunch with Jamie Agapoff a couple of days ago. We talked about where next we needed to do research and writing in support of the eunuch community.

The WPATH SoC8 has been out for two years now and individuals have been able to use it to obtain proper care. We thought that an article that presents five or six very brief case studies would be helpful both to inform professionals that the SoC is valid and works and to provide further ammunition for those seeking castration.

We would need to find individuals who would be willing to provide information for the case studies and the Eunuch Archive is, of course, the place to do it.

This would be a two-stage process: first we would want to ask for suggestions of questions to ask (what would be the most important points to focus on in the article) and only later to request the volunteers.

The nature of academic research today is that we would need to have the completed questionnaire before we could ask an “Institutional Review Board” to approve the study. This advance approval is required before any major journal would consider publishing the article. Gaining approval can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. Only then could we begin the actual gathering of information.

We would need to interview individuals who have obtained their orchiectomy and/or penectomy after the publication of the new Standards of Care and who used it to help obtain the necessary care.

We would want to write about:
* the search for care before the SoC,
* the use of the SoC to obtain care,
* the success in receiving care, and
* the feelings of the person afterwards.

Are there any specific questions that members of the Archive would like for us to ask and to write about? The goal is to make a difference for those seeking proper treatment.

[mounds_dont]

Questions I would ask are
Have you told people about your being a eunuch?
Why (or why not)?

This addresses a taboo that exists in our society. Men are not men without testicles. To voluntarily give up your manhood is the taboo. As with any taboo, breaking one, comes with shame bestowed on the person, by society.

We can't legislate away societal taboos, with SOC 10, SOC 11, ... We can make it easier for men to reach their goal of becoming eunuchs. We can get information out there to ease the taboo, and maybe even erase it altogether. If it takes more studies, and more polls, and more questionnaires. Bring them on! I will fill them out.

[WheelyFixed]

I Heartily endorse this effort, and would definitely encourage everyone that can to participate... As one of the early SOCv8 process eunuchs I certainly will volunteer to be one of the cases if they choose to use me...

EAv2 (and I believe the earlier ones as well) had a LONG history of participation in surveys and studies dealing with Eunuchs and I think it is an honor to continue that tradition. It is unlikely that the SOC would have had a chapter about us if not for EA and several of it's members and staff, if this helps keep the progress alive it is well worth it.

I'd probably ask things like:

Briefly summarize why you decided you wanted to be castrated?

How much had you studied DIY options before engaging with SOCv8?

Had you made any DIY efforts or were you considering them? If yes what? If you had considered but not done, why had you not done?

How did you learn of the SOCv8 option, and what made you decide to use it?

How did your working through the SOCv8 process go, any particularly good or bad pain points?

and similar things....

I think it is important to show that not only did the process work, but that it prevented participants from seeking other higher risk options that they might have if the SOCv8 had not been possible....

WheelyFixed

[dandelion]

Questions I would ask are
Have you told people about your being a eunuch?
Why (or why not)?

To expand on this would be, how different is life before and after surgery? Any changes in roles at home, and in daily social lives?

[NaturalEunuch]

If the goal is to make a difference for those seeking proper treatment, I think the big problems we as a community face are exorbitant expense and lack of access for what is a simple operation.

When I had my orchiectomy, there was a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, two nurses, and an expensive operating room. It was overkill and too expensive.

Dr. Arkoff from Michigan is/was known for doing the operation pretty much solo in his office on weekends. He did the surgery on an informed consent basis and the price was reasonable compared to hospital overkill.

The late Dr. Spector from Philadelphia ran a practice that consisted of 40-50% “voluntary eunuchs.”

While these doctors show it can be done, a lack of doctors familiar with eunuch gender and eunuch medicine is a problem.

Aren't there any doctors who can specialize in eunuch patients today? They could make a fortune if they advertised on here.

[WheelyFixed]

If the goal is to make a difference for those seeking proper treatment, I think the big problems we as a community face are exorbitant expense and lack of access for what is a simple operation.

When I had my orchiectomy, there was a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, two nurses, and an expensive operating room. It was overkill and too expensive.

Dr. Arkoff from Michigan is/was known for doing the operation pretty much solo in his office on weekends. He did the surgery on an informed consent basis and the price was reasonable compared to hospital overkill.

The late Dr. Spector from Philadelphia ran a practice that consisted of 40-50% “voluntary eunuchs.”

While these doctors show it can be done, a lack of doctors familiar with eunuch gender and eunuch medicine is a problem.

Aren't there any doctors who can specialize in eunuch patients today? They could make a fortune if they advertised on here.

I agree, although at least in the US, a lot of the cost for most is usually covered by health insurance... (Whether we would be better off getting most health care out of the clutches of the insurance industry AND the government is a separate question that is mostly off-topic and likely to get political, so lets not go there...)

The biggest problem I see w/ a doc wanting to specialize in eunuch patients is that there don't seem to be enough of us in any single place to support his practice, and even w/ a hypothetical doc doing informed consent on-demand surgery for low costs the travel distance / time / costs could be a problem for many even if the surgery itself was out of pocket affordable...

I think the closest we have to a specialist these days is Dr. A. down in Mexico, or at least he is probably the most frequently used doc that I've seen mentioned recently....

WheelyFixed

[NaturalEunuch]

Here are a few potential questions...

-- Have the information and resources provided by Eunuch Archive caused you to think differently about the subject of castration?
-- Have the information and resources provided by Eunuch Archive laid out a clear roadmap for a wannabe to become a voluntary eunuch?

Good luck!

[Dylan246]

This addresses a taboo that exists in our society. Men are not men without testicles. To voluntarily give up your manhood is the taboo. As with any taboo, breaking one, comes with shame bestowed on the person, by society.

We can't legislate away societal taboos, with SOC 10, SOC 11, ... We can make it easier for men to reach their goal of becoming eunuchs.

(...Men are not men without testicles. To voluntarily give up your manhood is the taboo...) my opinion is, it is a very old, not suitable tradition, to estimate men, they must to have testicles to stay men. It is very old. For example a man have two testicles, but they produce hardly enough testosterone, work badly. And their is a man, who have lost his both testicles after an accident with motorbike and he has a high testosterone level, he wants to have sex every day, have much energy, because he use testosterone replacement therapy.

So not the existence of testicles decides who is a man or not, but only testosterone level. And the higher it is, the manlier is a man.

I speak also about men, who don't like their testicles, but take testosterone to feel and act manly. I am gay man and love men with and without balls.
Of course I find it very hot to see naked men with hard cock and without balls or without sack. Especially if a man have decided with free will, to remove his balls.

[Jon246]

Some men, probably a small proportion but including myself, did not choke a medical route to getting castrated. For those men who chose a non medical route I’d ask why they chose that approach, what the experience of their castrater was, whether they had complications and if they sought medical help and if not why not. Happy to take part in any survey that ultimately helps everyone.

[Nulloguy]

Some men, probably a small proportion but including myself, did not choke a medical route to getting castrated. For those men who chose a non medical route I’d ask why they chose that approach, what the experience of their castrater was, whether they had complications and if they sought medical help and if not why not. Happy to take part in any survey that ultimately helps everyone.

I've noted many times I was castrated by a so-called "cutter" back in 2005 when no other options were really available beyond shady doctors who were not much better, and sometimes worse, than the non-licensed people. Thankfully, folks like us no longer need to do that thanks to more widespread availability of legitimate help.

My experience? I had no complications from my non-licensed castration, still it was a risky endeavor to go that route. The guy knew what he was doing. Medical professionals were quite well known not to help guys like us in those days. As such, while I poked around at the edges, I did not seek direct medical help for anything related to this until AFTER I became a eunuch. The docs I'd do that poking of the edges with would balk at the thought, so I understood the signal quite clearly.

Once castrated, I sought out medical attention for my newfound hypogonadal situation (no testosterone). They asked how my balls were removed and I lied. They left it alone. I suspect they though I did it myself with no help. Once we got past that, I've not had another doctor since deny me care for my testosterone treatment without referring me to a doctor more familiar with such care.

Oddly, when I later had my penis and scrotum removed, I ended up with complications from the legitimately performed surgery. Go figure...

[WheelyFixed]

Some men, probably a small proportion but including myself, did not choke a medical route to getting castrated. For those men who chose a non medical route I’d ask why they chose that approach, what the experience of their castrater was, whether they had complications and if they sought medical help and if not why not. Happy to take part in any survey that ultimately helps everyone.

I've noted many times I was castrated by a so-called "cutter" back in 2005 when no other options were really available beyond shady doctors who were not much better, and sometimes worse, than the non-licensed people. Thankfully, folks like us no longer need to do that thanks to more widespread availability of legitimate help.

My experience? I had no complications from my non-licensed castration, still it was a risky endeavor to go that route. The guy knew what he was doing. Medical professionals were quite well known not to help guys like us in those days. As such, while I poked around at the edges, I did not seek direct medical help for anything related to this until AFTER I became a eunuch. The docs I'd do that poking of the edges with would balk at the thought, so I understood the signal quite clearly.

Once castrated, I sought out medical attention for my newfound hypogonadal situation (no testosterone). They asked how my balls were removed and I lied. They left it alone. I suspect they though I did it myself with no help. Once we got past that, I've not had another doctor since deny me care for my testosterone treatment without referring me to a doctor more familiar with such care.

Oddly, when I later had my penis and scrotum removed, I ended up with complications from the legitimately performed surgery. Go figure...

As I've said before, I greatly value your willingness to share your experiences of "Ye Badde Olde Dayes" as it gives a lot of perspective on why we try to discourage people from using cutters or other DIY methods since they are thankfully no longer needed...

However it does somewhat leave the question open about those that may not have explicitly set out to get castrated from the beginning, but instead took a more convoluted path such as CBT or BDSM kinky type action that may have done cumulative damage or gone farther than intended and so forth.

I know in other threads you've said that your experience has been that guys that intentionally got fixed as part of a kink fantasy tended to be unhappy with the results, but what about the "Oops" cases? It seems like the SOCv8 isn't really going to help either of these situations much, other than possibly in dealing with the results

WheelyFixed

[Jon246]

I agree and i am very supportive of the advice to use a properly registered and legitimate route.

However, there will still be men who come to this from a bdsm direction that as you say either end up accidentally getting castrated or who arrive organically at the decision that it’s right for them after a long time in the bdsm world. Whilst not advocating that route it is nonetheless a reality for probably a small number of castrated men, myself included. I’d simply suggest that including them in the survey would be useful if only to, as you say, deal with any consequences intended or not.

[Nulloguy]

As I've said before, I greatly value your willingness to share your experiences of "Ye Badde Olde Dayes" as it gives a lot of perspective on why we try to discourage people from using cutters or other DIY methods since they are thankfully no longer needed...

However it does somewhat leave the question open about those that may not have explicitly set out to get castrated from the beginning, but instead took a more convoluted path such as CBT or BDSM kinky type action that may have done cumulative damage or gone farther than intended and so forth.

I know in other threads you've said that your experience has been that guys that intentionally got fixed as part of a kink fantasy tended to be unhappy with the results, but what about the "Oops" cases? It seems like the SOCv8 isn't really going to help either of these situations much, other than possibly in dealing with the results

WheelyFixed

I'm not sure I've run across any *oopsie* cases of castration. I'd say there not likely many guys out there who have accidentally become a eunuch. That doesn't mean there are not any. The cases I think you may be referring to are those who did and have some sort of regret. It's one of the reason I'm a staunch supporter of the SOC8 process, as much as many grumble about it.

I'd say in a CBT situation, unless purposely done, you're not likely to rupture both testicles, for example. Honestly, I think a lot of the tales back in the olden days of Masters castrating their slaves involuntarily are BS. I know many men were castrated voluntarily. I think those tales were a way for those guys to seek treatment that may otherwise be denied them, and to avoid the loony bin.

[WheelyFixed]

I'm not sure I've run across any *oopsie* cases of castration. I'd say there not likely many guys out there who have accidentally become a eunuch. That doesn't mean there are not any. The cases I think you may be referring to are those who did and have some sort of regret. It's one of the reason I'm a staunch supporter of the SOC8 process, as much as many grumble about it.

I'd say in a CBT situation, unless purposely done, you're not likely to rupture both testicles, for example. Honestly, I think a lot of the tales back in the olden days of Masters castrating their slaves involuntarily are BS. I know many men were castrated voluntarily. I think those tales were a way for those guys to seek treatment that may otherwise be denied them, and to avoid the loony bin.

Admittedly I've never played in that space so mostly going by the stories, which as you say may be BS... I know we have had some non-kink accidental castrations from things like motor vehicle crashes and other trauma reported on EAv2, and the same question applies in that they didn't do SOCv8, and didn't set out to have their bits removed...

WheelyFixed

[dandelion]

Let's not forget cancer. Not quite an oopsie, but involuntary nonetheless

[Harry]

As I've said before, I greatly value your willingness to share your experiences of "Ye Badde Olde Dayes" as it gives a lot of perspective on why we try to discourage people from using cutters or other DIY methods since they are thankfully no longer needed...

However it does somewhat leave the question open about those that may not have explicitly set out to get castrated from the beginning, but instead took a more convoluted path such as CBT or BDSM kinky type action that may have done cumulative damage or gone farther than intended and so forth.

I know in other threads you've said that your experience has been that guys that intentionally got fixed as part of a kink fantasy tended to be unhappy with the results, but what about the "Oops" cases? It seems like the SOCv8 isn't really going to help either of these situations much, other than possibly in dealing with the results

WheelyFixed

I'm not sure I've run across any *oopsie* cases of castration. I'd say there not likely many guys out there who have accidentally become a eunuch. That doesn't mean there are not any. The cases I think you may be referring to are those who did and have some sort of regret. It's one of the reason I'm a staunch supporter of the SOC8 process, as much as many grumble about it.

I'd say in a CBT situation, unless purposely done, you're not likely to rupture both testicles, for example. Honestly, I think a lot of the tales back in the olden days of Masters castrating their slaves involuntarily are BS. I know many men were castrated voluntarily. I think those tales were a way for those guys to seek treatment that may otherwise be denied them, and to avoid the loony bin.

It could be rare but it does happen. It happened to me. I was into ballbusting and aside from the obvious pain there was no long term damage. That is until I visited an inexperienced mistress who was far too rough and through poor use of certain equipment ended up severing the cords. I took too long to seek medical help and when I did the diagnosis was confirmed. Rare but it can and does happen

[WheelyFixed]

<snip>
However it does somewhat leave the question open about those that may not have explicitly set out to get castrated from the beginning, but instead took a more convoluted path such as CBT or BDSM kinky type action that may have done cumulative damage or gone farther than intended and so forth.

I know in other threads you've said that your experience has been that guys that intentionally got fixed as part of a kink fantasy tended to be unhappy with the results, but what about the "Oops" cases? It seems like the SOCv8 isn't really going to help either of these situations much, other than possibly in dealing with the results

WheelyFixed

I'm not sure I've run across any *oopsie* cases of castration. I'd say there not likely many guys out there who have accidentally become a eunuch. That doesn't mean there are not any. The cases I think you may be referring to are those who did and have some sort of regret. It's one of the reason I'm a staunch supporter of the SOC8 process, as much as many grumble about it.

I'd say in a CBT situation, unless purposely done, you're not likely to rupture both testicles, for example. Honestly, I think a lot of the tales back in the olden days of Masters castrating their slaves involuntarily are BS. I know many men were castrated voluntarily. I think those tales were a way for those guys to seek treatment that may otherwise be denied them, and to avoid the loony bin.

It could be rare but it does happen. It happened to me. I was into ballbusting and aside from the obvious pain there was no long term damage. That is until I visited an inexperienced mistress who was far too rough and through poor use of certain equipment ended up severing the cords. I took too long to seek medical help and when I did the diagnosis was confirmed. Rare but it can and does happen

A very good counterpoint to NulloGuy's post, which possibly brings up the follow on question to the initial one, of how do you feel about it now that it has happened... Are you unhappy about it, or is it something that you may not have set out to do, but are now sort of glad it did?

As a rare case it is especially useful to hear your perspective on it and how you have dealt with the situation as it might help us to give advice to any other 'oopsie' cases.

NG has a LOT of experience and exposure in the Eunuch community, including being part of the EA since the very beginning, as well as his own personal life experience, so I tend to think he is usually pretty accurate in what he says, but you have the first hand experience to be a 'subject expert'.

WheelyFixed

[Harry]

Hi thanks for the comment, I have no doubt that NG does have lots of knowledge, I was just saying that it can happen as it did in my case. How do I feel, well I wasn't very pleased at all and I wasn't happy. It took me a long time to accept what had happened. But you can either live your life regretting things or get on with it and that's what I decided to do. I now just accept it, the risks playing BB are obvious especially at the extreme end and in my case they happened. My only advice to others is go with a more experienced player. Now happy to read all of everyone else's experience.

[Godson]

Some men, probably a small proportion but including myself, did not choke a medical route to getting castrated. For those men who chose a non medical route I’d ask why they chose that approach, what the experience of their castrater was, whether they had complications and if they sought medical help and if not why not. Happy to take part in any survey that ultimately helps everyone.

I've noted many times I was castrated by a so-called "cutter" back in 2005 when no other options were really available beyond shady doctors who were not much better, and sometimes worse,

Oddly, when I later had my penis and scrotum removed, I ended up with complications from the legitimately performed surgery. Go figure...

May I pry and als what the specific process was for your castration and what the complications were that you experienced with your penectomy and scrotectomy…?