Eunuch childhood signs

[thefraj (imported)]

Hi Everyone! This is sort of a re-post of a thread that generated some interest...hopefully the time will have given everyone time to digest some of these thoughts and reflect on their lives (I know I have!!) So hopefully this one can be even better!

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Has anyone had difficulty relating to other boys' behaviour when growing up? Never enjoyed the agressive aspect of boys' sports at school, or been chastised for having qualities that are not 'typically male', possibly effeminate? Perhaps even had some girls for friends at an age where most boys enjoy boy-only company? Or maybe found themselves much more emotional or sensitive than other boys?

When I reflect more on my life, there have been times when I realized that - while I was male enough to not stand out too badly - I never really enjoyed a lot of the typical behaviour that other boys seem so happy (and ready!) to engage in. I always felt different somehow.

Cultural note: while "queer", "fag", "puff" may be slang terms in the classroom in the West - more based on sexual orientation, in India the slang is usually "chakka", which tends to have more to do with sexual identity. Chakka is also a derogatory term used in reference to the Hijra.I remember at 7 asking my teacher if I could play netball with the girls because I actually found the aggression and possibility of injury in football frightening. I have never been able to use urinals and remember some tough times in changing rooms at school!

I know in the past, some very brave people opened their hearts to tell exactly how different their childhood was, and I certainly don't want to force anyone to re-live an experience they've already shared (unless anyone would like to share again!). But the more I think on it, the more I realize that there were very small signs even before puberty that made me different from other boys and I would love to hear views from other peoples' lives!

[tugon (imported)]

Yes thefraj this was a good thread and certainly needs revisited. Growing up I always felt odd person out. During holidays I never wanted to be in the room with the men watching sports and did not fit in well with the women in the kitchen. I was always going in between never fitting in either side. Same at school with my low levels of coordination and lack of interest in sports I did not fit in with the boys and of course would have been tormented more if I jumped rope with the girls.

From an early age I had issues with my body. I would dread the idea of being without a shirt. The idea of changing for gym class was frightening not only because of my fear of being naked but also being gay I was afraid I would give myself away while looking at the other boys. These feelings began during puberty. Of course everything became worse with the onset of puberty. I used to think life would be easier as a girl but I never had the desire to be a girl. I had yet to learn about eunuchs and the third option.

Emotionally for me I never knew if I was more emotional due to my lack of gender identity or abusive family life. Like the age old question of which came first the chicken or the egg did the gender identity issues cause the greater emotions or did the abuse make me sensitive? My father was physically and verbally abusive and he loved to scare me. He would hide as I was walking by and jump out to scare me. He would even scare me out of sound sleeps. I was a very nervous child with a heightened startle response. Drop a book and watch me jump. Never learning to stand up for myself I became fair game to others.

I always felt other people knew I was different. As a child it was easier for my adult relatives to overlook me than try to get to know me. I always felt invisible and wished I could become that way. At a cookout one time they forgot to order and cook a steak for me. I had an uncle who would buy Christmas presents for everyone but me. They knew I was different and I knew I was different so I became insignificant.

[A-1 (imported)]

Yes,

I suppose that I can relate to this. But I was not repulsed by things athletic, but I thought that athletes were boring. In High School I was as strong as an ox...(probably smelled worse)... I hated football and I was too clumsy for basketball. I was too lazy then to run track. In 4th grade my I.Q. was measured at 130 or so, and I found out, go figure, so, I never tried hard on an I.Q. test since then, because the label almost ruined me, and I had to work hard from that point on at not being "too smart". I was too dumb for MENSA, but I never tried, so I don't know that for sure. I was reading at a College Sophomore level in the 4th grade. I almost failed the 3rd grade, or that is what the 3rd grade teacher had led me to believe. I think that I did the I.Q. test in the 4th grade just to spite the poor old thing. Later I found out that she had an autistic son, anc in those days he was just labelled "retarded". I felt bad because I never did more in her room than I absolutely had to do.

I was not a part of "the" crowd of the folks my age because I did things in 5th & 6th grade like read Jack London's Call of the Wild and White Fang. Also, I read THE SCARLET LETTER and THE HOUSE OF THE SEVEN GABLES by Nathaniel Hawthorne. I remember reading Charles Dickens' TALE OF TWO CITIES, Great Expectations and A Christmas Carol. Also, Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain (http://books.mirror.org/gb.twain.html#yankee) (Samuel Clements). I read Washington Irving's Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle.

I actually loved and had my own volumes of Edgar Allen Poe short stories, which made my grade school teachers uneasy. I was a HUGE fan of old Horror flicks with Bela Lagosi, Lon Chaney Jr., Boris Karloff, Vincent Price, Peter Lorrie and all Alfred Hitchcock films. I remember watching Betty Davis in Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte and "The Nanny" in Jr High. Now, THAT flick had a profound effect on me. After that one, I was very interested in older girls and I found one or two to look under MY towel..

Melodrama films (http://www.filmsite.org/melodramafilms.html) were more interesting to me than Cowboys films. So, you see, I was an odd duck until at least puberty. I abandoned intellectuality until in High School when my Sophomore English teacher sparked my interest in Shakespeare. A girl or two my age took an interest in me but I was into younger chicks. This intellectual afterglow alienated me from male classmates except for 3 or 4 who were as crazy as I.

I sought and found refuge in those a couple of years younger than me by High School. (They didn't know that I was a NERD. I had a car, you see. ) High school grades were literally shit...I had to watch my reputation and refute the NERD label, but I still managed to graduate. It was Kool Filters and Colt 45 Malt Liquor, Mercurys, Chevys and Pontiacs...with a TR-3 Triumph thrown in to boot! Skinny Dipping in the Strip Pits...(coal strip mines)

I got hooked up with Vi in High School, she being two years younger than I, and we have been a "item" ever since...boy, I fell HARD for her. It has lasted close to 37 years now...I was married at 19. I was crazy over music, but too shy to perform. Now I am too old...go figure... :-\

The moral of the story, I was an odd duck, but basically I didn't give a damn...I still don't know how I lived to be 50. It was not because I tried...

I gave up years ago trying to hide my interest in education and intellectualism. I don't publish anything, it takes too much discipline to write anything of any consequence.

That's all!

A-1

[SplitDik (imported)]

I fit in with boys pretty good. I've always liked violence, and the idea of fighting is appealing to me at a basic level. I wasn't great at sports, but played them a lot. I was captain of my soccer team for many years, and got MVP awards. I've tried martial arts several times, and really enjoy it, but just never could make the time commitment to advance past the first few belts.

The signs for me regarding castration desire were that I first pierced my penis with a sewing needle at age 9. I think I also liked to tuck my penis between my legs to make it look like a vagina. This was also the time I was really starting to notice girls/women sexually, and sexual thoughts were starting to dominate my day. I think ultimately my castration desire has been driven by the frustration with being oversexed, and was linked early to my sexual desire and fantasies.

[Sac_mec (imported)]

This has to be one of the most interesting threads we had here and I thank thefraj for initially starting it and for opening up the thread again; thanks.

The time before puberty ought to have been a time of freedom and innocence in so many ways but there was severe mental family abuse in my home which impacted hugely on me as the youngest; problems flared before I was 5 and homelife shifted from the normal to the most violent and threatening. I was a real "Mummy's boy" and had heaps of maternal love but my father was a 'Jekyll/Hyde' character and it was very destabilising and undermining.

At school I hated Sports, especially Competitive ones and avoided getting muddy, wet or anywhere near a football, for example, but I enjoyed being in the showers! I loved reading from an early age - it was a form of escape and we had an excellent library nearby which I used enthusiastically. I was reading adult fiction avidly by about age 10.I was a Choirboy, as some of you know, I was fortunate to have a lovely voice and thrilled at the solo singing I did at Church and in Cathedrals. I had beauty too. My voice gave me great confidence and I "shone" when I sang and others loved it. When my voice broke I was having a hell of a time with worsening mental abuse from my father who became very aggressive to us all and on top of that school pressure from Exams was mounting. I just couldn't cope with it all and I left School at the earliest opportunity after 'O' Levels and left home. My exam success was poor due to being in fear at home and finding puberty difficult.

As a young child I played alongside the girls at playtime at Infant school.

At Secondary school (11-15) I sought more friendships from quiet male friends

and avoided 'girls' - I knew my sexual orientation was Gay but I knew all that could wait. I did have so much angst and angst about Sex was just another fear too. Scars from that time are permanent and when I became a Chemical Eunuch in mid-life, I felt the lifting of some of the angst I had had and I felt happier. The emotional damage done over my early years to me emphasise the importance that children deserve to live in a tranquil,safe,loving and supported home, but not in a "cocoon", of course.

My father never praised me, never hugged me and instilled fear and terror into our home I "grew up" in an atmosphere of fear and insecurity frequently crying myself to sleep.My singing was important and enhanced some self esteem - bringing so much joy to me and other people. It built me up and was wonderful but that finished at puberty, naturally. As choirboys we knew all about Castrati and musical works composed for them but it was never dwelt on; it was just an historical fact and I'm not sure if we really understood it overmuch.

[erikboy (imported)]

I do not know if roots of interest in castration are in my childhood or not. Many have said here that they have abused during childhood and that might have contributed to interest of being castrated. I think I understand the feelings of those, and I think they are right. Here I have to add, that children must not be kept in emotionally totally sterile enviroment or keep troubles away from them at any cost. Negative emotions are emotions that must be dealt at any time in life, if it is not learned during childhood and adolescence how to deal with difficulties and negative emotions then when it is to be learnt? One thing is sure, parents must create safe environment for their children and be supportive for their children. Difficulties and negative emotions shold be part of everyday life. Child must be seen as an independent person who needs temporary help to cope with problems in order to learn how the world is functioning, not as a property of a parent who can order his/her child to do whatever he/she likes.

That is my personal humble opinion. Slightly off topic but I had to say that.

Back to topic.

What I remember from my childhood, was interest in other boys rather than in other girls.

Well, despite that I did not feel that sex or anything related to that is integral part of myself. Sex was something that was rather standing close to me than something inside me.

Being a boy was natural state for me. I did not see that girls were any different from boys. I treated both as just another person without dividing them into sexes.

When I became aware that I will go through a puberty at some point in my life I was really afraid of this process. I compared myself with a grown men and their behaviour and I did not like what I saw. I never wanted to become a big man. Becoming a woman never did not cross my mind, never!

So I felt that soon something like a sex will be forced upon my mind aginst my will. I preferred to stay as I was - a boy. A boy who is independent in his decisions and life. thats how i imagined my future. That seemed natural for me.

I never put these thoughts in words. I felt this way. And i never thought seriously about castration until puberty. There was no need

when puberty hit, I became an hopeless masturbator. I allways felt filthy afterwards, but I still enjoyed the orgasm.

First time I thought about castration when my class boys voices started to break, one after another. I felt that this disaster will happen to my voice soon wheter I want it or not. Then I realised that I actually started the puberty and I wanted to stop it. I learned soon that castration is the only cure for puberty. But that was not a choice for me of course. It felt something so unrealistic for me, that I put the idea aside almost immediately.

My voice did break too. I felt so embarrassed! I knew that everybody knew I was going through puberty, that I had all the (sex)features I wanted to keep distance with, that was not part of original myself. My breaking voice told everybody that I was now wanting to have sex, that I was a masturbator - my most well kept secret! uhh..

At some point castration theme entered my masturbation fantasies. At first there was no direction whether I was castrated or somebody else was. The idea that there have been real castrations in history was enough for me.

Then I started to question myself: What if I was castrated? It seemed exciting - me having no balls. But for my inner mind there was nothing wrong to have no balls. I was more concerned with social status. What if somebody discovered I had no balls? That idea frightened me. What will I tell? How to excuse? I was concerned also about the idea that without balls I will have no children.

I think at that point in my life I was ready being castrated if there was no socials problems with eunuch status and if somebody had really offered me that option.

And I still do not know what makes me want to be castrated. There seem to be no origin. The need comes from my inner mind. I think it has been there since my birth. I can't see any external factors.

Thats my story.

[erikboy (imported)]

I forgot to say that I was 13 when my puberty started and 16 when I came to conclusion that being castrated is OK for me

[tod1969 (imported)]

hello thefraj

yes i can relate to how you feel i never fitted in as one of the boys ,

i always felt i should be playing with the girls , and feeling i was born in the

wong body i felt very effeminate at the age of eight i wanted to be castrated

[billie (imported)]

From puberty I knew that someday they would be gone. I didn't know why, nor did I care why I felt that way. I didn't fit in with the boys either. I would have much rather played with the girls. I was crossdressing at 9 yrs old. It just was great to be in a dress. That was me.

When I was 12 yrs old some boys grabbed me and pulled my shirt off, held me down and put his mother's bra on me. They all thought that was pretty funny. I was terrified, not from the emberassment of the event, but how could they have read my mind to know to crossdress me.

That event was a catalyst that seperated me from the guys. I knew I was something was wrong.

It is too bad we don't have controll over our bodies like women do. In my case the criteria to be met was; two shrinks signing on, with the endocrinologist finding the surgeon to do the job. The same as a sex change. The shrinks will sign on with one visit when you mention the burdizzo. They don't want your blood on their hands if they turn you down and you go home and kill yourself, botching your self castration.

One session with your endocrinologist with your being very determined to carry it out yourself if you can't find someone to do it legally, should get you a referral to a sugeon. Next, get your money together and book the surgery date.

After it was over I most graciously thanked the surgeon for what he had done. And also thanked him for saving my life. I walked out of the clinic still not knowing why and still not caring why either. I did know that moment was the happiest moment of my life. I was grinning and wanted to celebrate starting my life all over.

It has to be some kind of intuitive thing that has roots in our primeval ancestors. Who knows? Who cares? What did I need them for anyway? Next case!!

Thanks,

billie.

[BudleyBare (imported)]

...

It is too bad we don't have controll over our bodies like women do.,,,

That is an interesting statement. I've never considered that women have control over their bodies any more than men do.

Hmmmmm. Tiime to go ponder this statement. Anyone care to comment, elaborate, confirm, or refute?

[thefraj (imported)]

...

It is too bad we don't hav

e controll over our bodies like women do.,,,

That is an interesting statement. I've never considered that women have control over their bodies any more than men do.

Hmmmmm. Tiime to go ponder this statement.

Anyone care to comment, elaborate, confirm, or refute?Hehe it's weird - I furled my brow when I read this generalized sweeping statement too. But you know - I think billie is probably quite right.

As a eunuch I can now choose to be sexually active if and when it suits (or not! As the case may be!) But, as a male I had little choice what I found attractive or when to be active. Sometimes I would be compelled by my body to want sex.

Basically there is a kind of freedom I can now enjoy, a choice that was not really mine to make before castration.

Bearing in mind that testosterone drives sexual appetite - in both men and women - and since women and eunuchs have similar levels of T, is it fair to assume their level of biological urges are probably also similar?

Edit: Just an something else to think about. If you were to look around an 18 year old girls bedroom/computer, I bet you'd find less pornography than an 18 year old guy. The porn industry as a whole is more gear to men, which sort of reflects this too?

[Sac_mec (imported)]

We've moved rather off subject here but I feel that Billie was making the point that in medical and surgical and in cosmetics and cosmetic surgery that women have a whole range of easy extra possibilities than men have. (is that right Billie?). Men have to work much harder to achieve their body goals, generally. Women are prepared to listen to each other; men see themselves as Power controllers, often. As for sexual arousal ask any woman or anyone transgendered whether or not they have control of their bodies; of course, yes. The Fraj is right in making many of his above points and I agree with them but I would say that for young girls I think you'll find that the whole Pop Industry and a whole section of magazines are aimed at stimulating sexual arousal and interest for them. The added advantage for the record industry is that Gay men often are the first to be aware of Boy Bands such as Take That and the various Irish & Euro Boy bands, the American ones and not forgetting A-ha. Morton (the lead singer) would have given stimulation to many girls and guys and Take That Videos are 100% sexual - they even did a nude photo shoot. I guess copies of that found there way into many young girls bedrooms. I think a slight mis-interpretation of Billies intentions has occured. The surgical operation options and Cosmetic ones (esp. in N.America) are vast from boob jobs, to lips, to you name it. Surgeons seem to offer men lasering, waxing and vascetomies. That's quite a major body contrast isn't it and explains why Eunuchs and Tgs often feel under cared and very overlooked by Professionals. Its a fascinating diversion from the theme and thanks Bradley Bear for concentrating on that but that said, I hope the thread soon can find its roots again in its subject of Eunuch Childhood Signs.

[tugon (imported)]

[

My father never praised me, never hugged me and instilled fear and terror into our home I "grew up" in an atmosphere of fear and insecurity frequently crying myself to sleep.My singing was important and enhanced some self esteem - bringing so much joy to me and other people. It built me up and was wonderful but that finished at puberty, naturally. As choirboys we knew all about Castrati and musical works composed for them but it was never dwelt on; it was just an historical fact and I'm not sure if we really understood it overmuch.

Sac_mec I can painfully relate to living in fear. I was always afraid to be in the house with my father without my mother there as a buffer. From an early age I never felt like I did anything well enough to please him. I was not much of a son and thought maybe that was why he was so angry. That fear and sense of being wrong has caused me great insecurity. I am glad you had the gift of your voice.

[Sac_mec (imported)]

Tugon, You know of all the active contributors here I instinctively knew that you would understand just how deeply upsetting and terrible it is when a father instills fear and terror into the souls of his children (we were all traumatised and reacted differently but we were all scarred and wounded to the depths of our souls). At nightime after I stopped crying I found solace from a transistor radio that I had under my pillow. The voices of the djs calmed me as did the pop music then. In the UK in the late 60s and 70s (and much later on also) if the police were called to a home to restore calm and settle problems they had no powers. No powers to help young children, no powers to help frightened wives.

The situations were described as "Domestics" and even when it was obvious real help was needed, they simply left the scene and did nothing. At least today in the UK and I'm sure in many countries, the police and Social Services and other Agencies do have powers, when they are alerted to hurt being done within a family. This early feeling of fear I had against my Jekkyl and Hyde father I am sure deeply affected my attitudes to males with power over me, such as bosses, and has been a major influence in finding peace and my own new fresh path which abhors agression in all its aspects and which treasures gentle personality aspects and also treasures soft, neutral Eunuch values.

I do hope my contributions in this thread haven't sounded self indulgent, by

thinking and writing I am sure that I am reaching out to other people too.

[sag111 (imported)]

Hello my friend Sac-mec after meeting you a few monthes back i just cant understand anyone herting you.As i found you to be one of the kindest people i have ever met.But the story you tell happens all to often and its the little ones who get hert so badly.Its not always the outward scars that are the worst its the inner scars that never go away that harm us so badley.Hugs to you my friend and thanks for having me in your home that day as I will never forgit that.Your friend SAG111

[billie (imported)]

That is an interesting statement. I've never considered that women have control over their bodies any more than men do.

Hmmmmm. Tiime to go ponder this statement. Anyone

care to comment, elaborate, confirm, or refute?

Hello Folks,

I don't want to get off the subject again but when I said "women have more controll over their bodies than men do" I meant in a "surgical way" . I did not mean this as a blanket statement to that effect. I was of the opinion that the focus of this web site was about people who became eunuchs through surgical or other means or reasons. And control over being and a elective or non-elective eunuch.

To get the ovaries removed, all a woman has to do is say she wants it done to a doctor and it is done. She dosen't have to get permission from anyone. She has sole control.

If a male wants to have his testicles removed he has to have letters from two shrinks saying it is OK. (A male is not capable of making this decision on his own, regarding his testicles) Then finding a surgeon to actually do it is next to impossible without traveling thousands of miles. (A surgeon is affraid he will be accused/ charged with commiting mayhem.) And maybe live as a woman for two years. Even if you don't make a very cute girl. Make sure your endocrinologist thinks it's OK too. (My endocrinologist was acting like (very reluctant) I was wanting to have HIS balls removed.

Or, as an act of desperation, cut them off yourself. (Individual results may vary.) (WARNING!!! SERIOUS INJURY OR EVEN DEATH MAY RESULT)

Chances are, If you think you need you balls removed, then you probably do. Who would know that better than you? What's the problem? Why is it such a big deal to get it done?

If I want a perfectly good tooth pulled I will have no problem getting a dentist to do it. Nor will I have to get a letter from my shrinks addressed to my dentist saying it is OK to pull the tooth. Nor will I have to live like a person with a tooth missing for a year. I will not have to go home get a pair of pliers, reach in my mouth and pull it myself out of desperation. (Individual results may vary.)

Sorry to get off the subject, but I thought I needed to clarify my post.

Thanks Billie.

[Sac_mec (imported)]

Billie, I agree with you totally. I did get your point originally but I'm glad that you affirmed your points. Women have medical choices as you say, men get overlooked and are frequently unable to express their health needs.

I guess because women can become mothers with children that is the priority

of any cash struck health system (and whether state or private) all Health

systems are supportive to women with "Well Womens Clinics" and the focus

is on traditional Biological lines; men aren't expected to complain about health

and too many keep silent and are frightened to access Health care when it is needed for them. Some newspapers here in the UK have actually attacked the public health system for aiding people who wish to become transgendered.

I like to think that medical attitudes are changing both inside the profession

and also within thinking men. Some progress has occured but heaps more needs to happen.

[kristoff]

don't want to get off the subject again but when I said "women have more controll over their bodies than men do" I meant in a "surgical way" . I did not mean this as a blanket statement to that effect. I was of the opinion that the focus of this web site was about people who became eunuchs through surgical or other means or reasons. And control over being and a elective or non-elective eunuch.

For informational purposes, this is a supportive and informational web site for the Eunuch Community. It is open to all who are Eunuch because of any cause, or who will become a eunuch for some reason, as well as those who desire to become eunuchs.

It does not matter if Eunuchism occurs because of disease, genetic process, injury, self-infliction, assaultive occurence, or choosing to become a eunuch of one's own accord. Voluntary, elective castration is obviously a major element here.

Ideally this will be a place where folks can explore the issue, find information, support, and encouragement.

[BudleyBare (imported)]

...

To get the ovaries removed, all a woman has to do is say she wants it done to a doctor and it is done. She dosen't have to get permission from anyone. She has sole control.

If a male wants to have his testicles removed he has to have letters from two shrinks saying it is OK. (A male is not capable of making this decision on his own, regarding his testicles)....

<remainder deleted for brevity>

Billie, you were not off topic. And thanks for the clarification, because I now understand the point you were trying to make (and happen to agree with it).