Although threads wander all over sometimes, your post is exactly where I have been going, perhaps provoking. Yes, I do have a less than stellar regard for many IN psychiatry, not the field itself, although it has much to be gained in knowledge and ability. My point above is the GID is truly not a disorder - except perhaps when one is distressed by it, and that one ought look at the concept of multiple genders and a need to accomodate / facilitate them. Would love to hear more from others, here or perhaps in another thread.
Interestingly enough, some of the rants above would be viewed by psychiatrists as being "paranoid." Opinions abound on all sides. I've always maintained that opinions are like assholes. Most everyone has one and half the time they are full of crap.
Oh well, gotta go pretend to work.
What do psychiatrists say?
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Uncle Flo (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
It seems as if the core to the problem of defining GID is that the definition of gender doesn't fit well into the reality of peoples experience. This would throw doubt onto the entire concept of gender as defined by psychiatric and sociological authorities. Does this mean that gender is purely a social construct? Probably not, but it does mean that the definition of gender is flawed and probably irrelevant to a broader discussion of human variety. There needs to be a broader understanding of human desires and behavior relative to the needs of the individual and the requirements of the society in which that individual lives. Yes, I am saying that the needs of a society are relative to the individuals in that society and not absolute in the sense of a proclamation from ones divine beliefs (although that is obviously part of the picture). Does this mean that psychiatry is a fraud? No, it means that it is struggling to reach greater relevancy and should be viewed in that light. As is the case in all endeavors there are practitioners that do not "reach for excelence", they should be viewed with disdain. --FLO--
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plix (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
For me the problem is not psychiatrists, but the drugs behind them. I do think that psychotropic drugs, especially anti-depressants, are WAY overprescribed and people need to rely on treatments other than those pills for every little thing that goes wrong.
Like kristoff, I am psychotic, schizophrenic, bi-polar, as well as other labels like depressed, a few different types of anxious, and a personality disorder or two. According to psychiatry and other mental health fields, I am one screwed up individual.
Those labels aren't my issue as much as the fact that the first thing that comes of the psychiatrist's mouth, with no consideration of what may be causing the alleged disroder or what else might treat it, is to take an anti-depressant. Anti-depressants are the cure-all, know-all, end-all answer to anything that might be emotionally unstable about a person.
I've done Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, and a few others. I continue to be diagnosed with the same disorders as before I touched any of them. They cause miserable side effects, especially before the castration. And my GPs are joining the anti-depressant fun as well. Any pain I have, any problem at all, is "probably anxiety - have an anti-depressant."
Anti-depressants do not cure all, do not know all, and do not end all, and that is all I have to say.
Like kristoff, I am psychotic, schizophrenic, bi-polar, as well as other labels like depressed, a few different types of anxious, and a personality disorder or two. According to psychiatry and other mental health fields, I am one screwed up individual.
Those labels aren't my issue as much as the fact that the first thing that comes of the psychiatrist's mouth, with no consideration of what may be causing the alleged disroder or what else might treat it, is to take an anti-depressant. Anti-depressants are the cure-all, know-all, end-all answer to anything that might be emotionally unstable about a person.
I've done Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, and a few others. I continue to be diagnosed with the same disorders as before I touched any of them. They cause miserable side effects, especially before the castration. And my GPs are joining the anti-depressant fun as well. Any pain I have, any problem at all, is "probably anxiety - have an anti-depressant."
Anti-depressants do not cure all, do not know all, and do not end all, and that is all I have to say.
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SplitDik (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
My point is that if you are looking to go to a psychiatrist to get support for your decision to be castrated, then you'll want to lead them toward a diagnosis for which chemical castration and surgical castration are accepted practice.
If you just want help, then you should let the psychiatrist do their own diagnosis, but the danger is that they will do something drastic and not in line with your expectations.
If you want to get a psychiatrist approval for castration, and you are a non-transgendered person, I suggest my approach.
Even with regular doctors, I think it is best to go in with some self-diagnosis -- otherwise you are at their whim. There is a lot of medical information out there and frankly much of what doctors "know" is what they read in their textbooks in school.
If you just want help, then you should let the psychiatrist do their own diagnosis, but the danger is that they will do something drastic and not in line with your expectations.
If you want to get a psychiatrist approval for castration, and you are a non-transgendered person, I suggest my approach.
Even with regular doctors, I think it is best to go in with some self-diagnosis -- otherwise you are at their whim. There is a lot of medical information out there and frankly much of what doctors "know" is what they read in their textbooks in school.
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Beau Geste (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Since the replies on this thread diverged somewhat into a discussion of the merits of psychiatry, rather than simply presenting what practitioners in that field had said, and someone reading through the three pages might have some difficulty gleaning out information on psychiatric commentary about desires for orchiectomy, I thought I might summarize the responses by members who related their experiences with professionals in the psychiatric field.
Tugon was counseled by a psychiatrist for post traumatic stress syndrome, some time after his orchiectomy. His response to tugon's decision to have orchiectomy due to gender dysphoria, was positive, and he thought the choice to have surgery was logical. The psychiatrist's judgement was that tugon was sane, and his action had effectively dealt with the dysphoria.
The Fraj was compelled to see a counsellor for self-harming when he was in his teens, some time before his orchiectomy. (It isn't stated whether he told the counsellor of his desire for castration.) The counsellor recommended behavioral therapy, and focused on the Fraj's urge to do things to himself. The counsellor did not explore the motives for the self-harming desires fully.
Hash went to two counsellors (not psychiatrists), who were little help. His own judgement is that he is sane, but testosterone could cause behavior that seemed insane.
JeffEunuch saw a psychiatrist who specialized in gender issues, and she was quite knowledgable about the distinction between gender dysphoria and genital dysphoria. Her attitude was that, while genital dysphoria is not normal, it was acceptable for older men to be castrated if she felt they would be satisfied if the genitals were excised, though the psychiatrist attempted to dissuade younger men. She also helped another patient to have a penectomy by sending a letter to his surgeon telling the surgeon that the patient understood the consequences of penectomy.
Eunuchist referred to studies on medline (I presume that is a website) in which
Kristoff reported that he had gotten help from at least one psychiatrist--I presume this was related to dysphoria--and had used medications which they prescribed. He feels that psychiatric treatment was beneficial to him.
Uncle Flo also reports that he was helped by a therapist, and by the medications which the psychiatrist prescribed. The reason for the psychiatric treatment was presumably linked to dysphoria.
Riverwind's psychiatrist has said he thinks Riverwind has a gender identity problem, which Riverwind finds to be humorous.
SplitDik has seen a psychiatrist regularly for five years because of his desire for castration. His first contact with a psychiatrist was as a result of a
Kristoff has been diagnosed as psychotic, schizophrenic, and bipolar, but considers the diagnoses questionable, and feels that standard psychiatric approaches often don't fit or work, and
Plix has been diagnosed as psychotic, schizophrenic, bipolar, and depressed, and has been prescribed
SplitDik comments that psychiatrists can be led to a diagnosis for which chemical and surgical castration are accepted practice.
Of course, this is a small sample of responses from practitioners in the field, and it can't be considered definitive. However, my general impression is that, if a psychiatrist has had experience with a number of people who have gender dysphoria or genital dysphoria (I'm not altogether sure what these terms mean, but apparently they are accepted among some or many psychiatrists) the practitioner generally views the matter as one in which the patient has a different way of thinking, rather than a mental illness. Maybe some effort should be made to identify psychiatrists who take this attitude, so that people with dysphoria can be referred to them.
If anyone feels I have misrepresented his response, you could contact one of the archive moderators and have them revise this post, or perhaps the moderator who reads it can simply make the revision.
As an observer, I'm still rather puzzled by the whole subject of the desire for emasculation, but reading posts on this archive has definitely been an educational experience, and one which has affected my attitudes toward those whose views of sex and gender differ from my own.
Tugon was counseled by a psychiatrist for post traumatic stress syndrome, some time after his orchiectomy. His response to tugon's decision to have orchiectomy due to gender dysphoria, was positive, and he thought the choice to have surgery was logical. The psychiatrist's judgement was that tugon was sane, and his action had effectively dealt with the dysphoria.
The Fraj was compelled to see a counsellor for self-harming when he was in his teens, some time before his orchiectomy. (It isn't stated whether he told the counsellor of his desire for castration.) The counsellor recommended behavioral therapy, and focused on the Fraj's urge to do things to himself. The counsellor did not explore the motives for the self-harming desires fully.
Hash went to two counsellors (not psychiatrists), who were little help. His own judgement is that he is sane, but testosterone could cause behavior that seemed insane.
JeffEunuch saw a psychiatrist who specialized in gender issues, and she was quite knowledgable about the distinction between gender dysphoria and genital dysphoria. Her attitude was that, while genital dysphoria is not normal, it was acceptable for older men to be castrated if she felt they would be satisfied if the genitals were excised, though the psychiatrist attempted to dissuade younger men. She also helped another patient to have a penectomy by sending a letter to his surgeon telling the surgeon that the patient understood the consequences of penectomy.
Eunuchist referred to studies on medline (I presume that is a website) in which
erred to as "paranoid schizophrenics."
Kristoff reported that he had gotten help from at least one psychiatrist--I presume this was related to dysphoria--and had used medications which they prescribed. He feels that psychiatric treatment was beneficial to him.
Uncle Flo also reports that he was helped by a therapist, and by the medications which the psychiatrist prescribed. The reason for the psychiatric treatment was presumably linked to dysphoria.
Riverwind's psychiatrist has said he thinks Riverwind has a gender identity problem, which Riverwind finds to be humorous.
SplitDik has seen a psychiatrist regularly for five years because of his desire for castration. His first contact with a psychiatrist was as a result of a
m after an attempt at self castration. The psychiatrist did not appear to be shocked, said that SplitDik had an obsession and prescribed Celexa. The Celexa eliminated the castration urges. SplitDik's regular psychiatrist says he has paraphilia, and feels SSRI is a reasonable treatment. He also had SplitDik bring in castration tools and drugs so that they could destroy the things.SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:13 am n incident in which he went to an emergency roo
Kristoff has been diagnosed as psychotic, schizophrenic, and bipolar, but considers the diagnoses questionable, and feels that standard psychiatric approaches often don't fit or work, and
d that the psychiatric community treats gender dysphoria as being minor enough that perhaps those with it should have their desires satisfied--hence there is a protocol for transgendering. His judgement is that desire for surgery on the genitals is something which can be seen as something on a continuum, and are only a disorder under certain circumstances.JeffEunuch (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:24 pm physicians and psychiatrists should consider nonstandard therapies and explanations.
JeffEunuch commente
Plix has been diagnosed as psychotic, schizophrenic, bipolar, and depressed, and has been prescribed
e effect on any disorders he might have.
SplitDik comments that psychiatrists can be led to a diagnosis for which chemical and surgical castration are accepted practice.
Of course, this is a small sample of responses from practitioners in the field, and it can't be considered definitive. However, my general impression is that, if a psychiatrist has had experience with a number of people who have gender dysphoria or genital dysphoria (I'm not altogether sure what these terms mean, but apparently they are accepted among some or many psychiatrists) the practitioner generally views the matter as one in which the patient has a different way of thinking, rather than a mental illness. Maybe some effort should be made to identify psychiatrists who take this attitude, so that people with dysphoria can be referred to them.
If anyone feels I have misrepresented his response, you could contact one of the archive moderators and have them revise this post, or perhaps the moderator who reads it can simply make the revision.
As an observer, I'm still rather puzzled by the whole subject of the desire for emasculation, but reading posts on this archive has definitely been an educational experience, and one which has affected my attitudes toward those whose views of sex and gender differ from my own.
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Kangan (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Thank you Beau Geste for an interesting and very informative summary.
I do not have any gender dysphoria or even genital dysphoria. I do have a problem with a libido that is not satisfied with normal sex (marital relations) or a normal frequency. Sex is always on my mind and not just sex with my wife.
Some 30 years ago, things got out of hand to the point where I got into serious difficulties with the legal system. No, I didn't go to jail, but it was a very narrow escape. That was when I first wanted to be castrated, but there was no way to legally get one despite my situation. I did go to various shrinks and found out that I had a sexual addiction. It took a while, but I did manage to learn how to divert my impulses to less dangerous areas of sexual activity.
Then I had a relapse. The parallel to alcoholism is very striking. No legal problems resulted, but I manage to screw up a friendship. This was when I tried banding, but gave up due to the resulting pain.
Much time passed, and here I am today. Once again my overactive libido has messed up several friendships and caused marital unrest. So you can see that gender dysphoria has nothing to do with it at all.
I've had enough counselling and psychological testing to know that I am sane. Basically the testosterone causes me to lose impulse control. I am getting tired of fighting for control and I don't want another relapse.
I'd be on the next airplane to Philadelphia except for the logistics of recovery in a strange hotel in a strange city.
I do not have any gender dysphoria or even genital dysphoria. I do have a problem with a libido that is not satisfied with normal sex (marital relations) or a normal frequency. Sex is always on my mind and not just sex with my wife.
Some 30 years ago, things got out of hand to the point where I got into serious difficulties with the legal system. No, I didn't go to jail, but it was a very narrow escape. That was when I first wanted to be castrated, but there was no way to legally get one despite my situation. I did go to various shrinks and found out that I had a sexual addiction. It took a while, but I did manage to learn how to divert my impulses to less dangerous areas of sexual activity.
Then I had a relapse. The parallel to alcoholism is very striking. No legal problems resulted, but I manage to screw up a friendship. This was when I tried banding, but gave up due to the resulting pain.
Much time passed, and here I am today. Once again my overactive libido has messed up several friendships and caused marital unrest. So you can see that gender dysphoria has nothing to do with it at all.
I've had enough counselling and psychological testing to know that I am sane. Basically the testosterone causes me to lose impulse control. I am getting tired of fighting for control and I don't want another relapse.
I'd be on the next airplane to Philadelphia except for the logistics of recovery in a strange hotel in a strange city.
Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Kangan (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:19 am Thank you Beau Geste for an interesting and very informative summary.
I do not have any gender dysphoria or even genital dysphoria. I do have a problem with a libido that is not satisfied with normal sex (marital relations) or a normal frequency. Sex is always on my mind and not just sex with my wife.
Some 30 years ago, things got out of hand to the point where I got into serious difficulties with the legal system. No, I didn't go to jail, but it was a very narrow escape. That was when I first wanted to be castrated, but there was no way to legally get one despite my situation. I did go to various shrinks and found out that I had a sexual addiction. It took a while, but I did manage to learn how to divert my impulses to less dangerous areas of sexual activity.
Then I had a relapse. The parallel to alcoholism is very striking. No legal problems resulted, but I manage to screw up a friendship. This was when I tried banding, but gave up due to the resulting pain.
Much time passed, and here I am today. Once again my overactive libido has messed up several friendships and caused marital unrest. So you can see that gender dysphoria has nothing to do with it at all.
I've had enough counselling and psychological testing to know that I am sane. Basically the testosterone causes me to lose impulse control. I am getting tired of fighting for control and I don't want another relapse.
I'd be on the next airplane to Philadelphia except for the logistics of recovery in a strange hotel in a strange city.
I suspect that you give too much weight to issues of logistics, recovery, and the mount of issues to transcend. With a successful surgery, you will be on your feet in 1 or 2 days, and 90% recovered in 1 week. Many folks who make the 'pilgrimage' to Philadelphia are flying / driving home in 1 or 2 days. The comfort and safety of home is not always something we may rely upon - take it from a home-body who hates not having his cocoon of safety surrounding him. Go with a friend or spouse, enjoy a few days off, and be done with what needs or wants be done.....
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Kangan (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Actually it is the possibility of a complication occurring that worries me the most. I'd drive there but it would take me over 14 hours. Flying is expensive and then local transportation becomes a problem too.
I'd like to be in and out the same day or one overnight, but I don't think that is realistic. I really want this done locally.
I wish my wife could go with me, but we have animals to take care of and no one to help, so it would most likely be a solo trip... if I go there at all.
I'd like to be in and out the same day or one overnight, but I don't think that is realistic. I really want this done locally.
I wish my wife could go with me, but we have animals to take care of and no one to help, so it would most likely be a solo trip... if I go there at all.
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JeffEunuch (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Kangan (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:19 am Thank you Beau Geste for an interesting and very informative summary. I do not have any gender dysphoria or even genital dysphoria. I do have a problem with a libido that is not satisfied with normal sex (marital relations) or a normal frequency. Sex is always on my mind and not just sex with my wife...... I'd be on the next airplane to Philadelphia except for the logistics of recovery in a strange hotel in a strange city.
You should perhaps talk to the good doctor about recovery. I agree that you may discover it's easier than you think. While I think I'm less prone to suffering than a lot o' people and also seem to heal rapidly, I was up and about a lot more quickly than I feared. And those who've previously read my story will knowthat one of my issues with testicles was that they were very tight and had very short cords. The implication of this for removal is that tying the cords off through scrotal incisions required a lot more effort and perhaps bruising than it might with others. In any event, I was quite sore following the procedure. I took 1 pain killer and fell asleep for a few hours - hadn't slept too well the previous night in anticipation of the procedure. However, I was feeling much better and hungry and was walking to and from a restaurant a few blocks away by late afternoon. There was some discomfort in the crotch, but not severe or really painful. I drove 240 km to home the following afternoon and, though still experiencing a bit o' discomfort, went to work the following day. I usually commute by cycle (25 km return), but gave myself a break the first week and used the vehicle that usually rests comfortably in my drive. The bruising disappeared midway in that first week. Everything was totally healed and the incisions barely observable even with close inspection in 3 weeks. While I don't recommend such an early return to normal activities to others, I was quite surprised by how rapid recovery was. Fear of pain or extended recovery is not a good reason not to proceed. There are of course other legitimate reasons for not undergoing voluntary castration. Just go for it if you think it's the right thing for you.
I'd find someone to care for the animals and take your wife.
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Kangan (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Yes, it is the recovery part that concerns me, as I will be in a strange city in a strange hotel some 14 hours by car from my home.
I also have tight balls and a short foreskin and scrotum. Perhaps the inguinal approach might be better after all. I do need to talk to Dr. Kimmel and see what he thinks. I wish I could just drop in for a preliminary exam without having to travel all that distance....
I also have tight balls and a short foreskin and scrotum. Perhaps the inguinal approach might be better after all. I do need to talk to Dr. Kimmel and see what he thinks. I wish I could just drop in for a preliminary exam without having to travel all that distance....
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big (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
I talked with my psychiatrist about going on Depo and she was against it due to the changes in body chemistry that it causes. She has however been pushing for me to switch to Depakote which blocks testosterone production and causes testicular atrophy.
Go Figure!
Go Figure!
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Riverwind (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
Back to your Title, "What do psychiatrists say?"
Who Cares there most likely wrong anyway.
I think you will find that most of us knew we needed castration from a very early age, for me it was about 7. This starts a life time of self abuse and finally castration. Sense my castration 5 years ago this Sept. I have finally been free, free and complete for the first time in my life.
River
Who Cares there most likely wrong anyway.
I think you will find that most of us knew we needed castration from a very early age, for me it was about 7. This starts a life time of self abuse and finally castration. Sense my castration 5 years ago this Sept. I have finally been free, free and complete for the first time in my life.
River
Re: What do psychiatrists say?
big (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:30 am I talked with my psychiatrist about going on Depo and she was against it due to the changes in body chemistry that it causes. She has however been pushing for me to switch to Depakote which blocks testosterone production and causes testicular atrophy.
Go Figure!
She is incorrect with regard to Depa-Kote. It does not interfere with testosterone, nor does it generally have sexual side effects. I used it for several years. Generally. it is very useful and effective as an anti-siezure medicine, as well as an anti-manic (for which psychiatrists usually prescribe it). It's principal side-effect is reduction of metabolic rates with a resultant increase in body weight, as well as a corresponding increase in appetite. Most people using this drug who are not exceptional attendant to their diet will pack it on quick.
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tomsaltsman (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
We have to realize that psychiatrists are just as acclimated by cultural prejudices as much as anyone else. They are not always immune from such bias. They also take sides in political debates. And voluntary castration is a political debate, to be sure.
In general, I have found Mexicans to be much more excepting of castration than any other group on this side of the planet. But not all Mexicans, of course. Your guess is as good as mine as to the reason why.
Fortunately for me, both my social worker and my psychiatrist are Mexican and both are totally supportive of my decision to become a eunuch. Both of them think that those who oppose me are just plain "stupid." My shrink even calls urologists who won't do it "chicken."
But my case may be different because I am HIV+. Nonetheless, I have talked to many people about my decision to become a eunuch and I would say about two thirds of those I speak with think castration should be just as available to men as abortions are to teenage girls. "It's YOUR body," many of them say quite bluntly.
INTERESTING NOTE: It is quite common to find Eastern Christians in the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches who think Catholic priests are a bunch of hypocrites because they aren't truly celibate. A very conservative Russian Orthodox woman once said to me, "They're all a pack of hypocrites! But if they went ahead and had a certain operation. . . that would prove to me that they were indeed sincere."
Eunuchs were much more common and much more respected in Byzantine Christianity than in the West where eunuchs were seen as demeaned slaves. Society needs to face it: WE WILL NEVER GO AWAY!
In general, I have found Mexicans to be much more excepting of castration than any other group on this side of the planet. But not all Mexicans, of course. Your guess is as good as mine as to the reason why.
Fortunately for me, both my social worker and my psychiatrist are Mexican and both are totally supportive of my decision to become a eunuch. Both of them think that those who oppose me are just plain "stupid." My shrink even calls urologists who won't do it "chicken."
But my case may be different because I am HIV+. Nonetheless, I have talked to many people about my decision to become a eunuch and I would say about two thirds of those I speak with think castration should be just as available to men as abortions are to teenage girls. "It's YOUR body," many of them say quite bluntly.
INTERESTING NOTE: It is quite common to find Eastern Christians in the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches who think Catholic priests are a bunch of hypocrites because they aren't truly celibate. A very conservative Russian Orthodox woman once said to me, "They're all a pack of hypocrites! But if they went ahead and had a certain operation. . . that would prove to me that they were indeed sincere."
Eunuchs were much more common and much more respected in Byzantine Christianity than in the West where eunuchs were seen as demeaned slaves. Society needs to face it: WE WILL NEVER GO AWAY!
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tomsaltsman (imported)
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DonFL (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
on this note, how does one find a good psychologist? I have tried calling down my insurance referral list but i pretty much get no where, it doesn't list their specialities or focus, and i have enough difficulty just making the calls...
This isn't so much for my sexual issues as other problems i need to work through, although all things are linked in the mind...
This isn't so much for my sexual issues as other problems i need to work through, although all things are linked in the mind...
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big (imported)
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Re: What do psychiatrists say?
DonFL (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:18 am on this note, how does one find a good psychologist? I have tried calling down my insurance referral list but i pretty much get no where, it doesn't list their specialties or focus, and i have enough difficulty just making the calls...
This isn't so much for my sexual issues as other problems i need to work through, although all things are linked in the mind...
Referrals are a great place to start. If you know anyone you trust that is receiving mental health care ask them where they are going and if they are happy with their provider.