The journey begins - looking for advice and support

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Hey there. Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a 28 year old guy in San Diego who's planning to go onto chemical castration to see whether or not becoming a eunuch is right for me. I wish to thank many of you for sharing your stories and experiences, which range from positive to truly hideous. It's a good "reality check" and, in my case, it's caused me to move about as deliberately as continental drift or evolution or a Congressional debate. Thanks a lot--I know it can be quite uncomfortable to discuss something so personal in so public of a forum.

So here's my story. I'm a really bright, good-looking, active 28 year old guy in San Diego. Both women and guys are attracted to me, except that I'm not attracted back. I'm asexual. Physically, I'm an athletic, in-shape guy, but I already feel like a eunuch in the bedroom. Sex doesn't interest me at all. Don't get me wrong--I think that people can be quite beautiful. But I'm attracted to people emotionally, not physically. I don't usually get erections when seeing someone attractive; instead, I think, "What a good looking, confident person."

Physically, however, I have the need to "get off" all the time, but I'm not interested in sex itself, and I don't get full erections. This is quite annoying. I need relief in order to even sleep. In addition, I like the aesthetics of not having anything down there. I'm sick of having my boys get smooshed when wearing tight undies or bike shorts or even walking or sitting, and they're just not nice to look at. Since I don't use them anyway, why not get rid of them? But the primary reason I want this is asexuality, bringing biology in sync with what I already know in my mind and heart.

So far, so good. But, I'm concerned about some of the other effects of castration. I'm an active guy and a slight health nut, so I don't want to gain 20 lbs of fat or develop osteoporosis at the age of 30. (I'm fine with a little "softening" of my features, but I want to remain a healthy guy in a certain sense.) And I certainly do not want to lose much of my mental function or go down the path of full-blown depression. Mellow is what I want. Depressed is not. Ideally, I'd be a eunuch or nullo with some kind of treatment to keep a good level of energy and bone density. I would really appreciate people's input on this set of matters, particularly the osteoporosis--I know that weight training and a good diet help, but what else? The other stuff, I can experience firsthand with the chemical castration, and I can back out if I find that it isn't worth it.

Basically, I'm looking for advice and support from current eunuchs and those who have other advice. I particularly want to hear from younger male or neuter eunuchs and nullos (those castrated under age 30 or 35), since it seems that their experiences are different from the older guys or transsexuals who get cut. (This has been discussed in another thread, and it's something that I've noticed too.) I've thought about my reasons for castration for years, and I've waited until I was sure that I wanted to try this. I didn't want to go in for the wrong reasons; it took a path of self-discovery, an understanding of my asexuality, and a careful analysis of the costs and benefits. I couldn't have done this five years ago.

So if you're a young eunuch of any sort or if you're in the Southern California area, I can really use your advice and support. I understand most of the physical and mental effects very well, but it's nice to have somebody to talk to about these changes. People go into this for a variety of reasons and end up with a variety of outcomes. I've read a lot of the personal accounts, and there seems to be a wide variety of experiences. As Andrew used to say, my mileage will vary. But the ride is bound to be interesting.

Thanks a lot.

-Chris in San Diego

[Hairless (imported)]

Chris: I'm 54 years old so I don't fall into the age group you wish to hear from, but I live within 90 miles of you so I fall in the category of your last paragraph.

In first reading your story, I thought that with the way you describe yourself, you might be low on testosterone. I then looked at your profile and saw your T level is at 500. Although that level should be normal for a guy your age, It might be low for you. If you are having trouble having or maintaining erections, something is not physically right. Have you discussed this with your doctor? I'm not trying to talk you out of your asexuality, but you are not transgendered in the sense many of us here are. It seems to me you have not had the opportunity to really feel what it is to be male. There are some plus sides to being a man. There is nothing like having a close relationship with someone you love. Again, have you discussed this with your doctor? You may be naturally asexual and there is no getting around that, but I would hate for you to get castrated and then find out all that was wrong was a chemical imbalance. Now, if all this has been addressed, you can get on with your desires.

When I tried Depo-provera, I found I didn't like the way it made me feel. I still was determined to be castrated, but I new I would need some kind of HRT. If you have read my thread, you know I have gender problems and wish I had been born a woman. Given my physical appearance I am not a good candidate for trying to become a woman. I opted instead to get rid of that which was most offensive to me, my testicles and scrotum. I am currently taking 300 mg depo-testosterone every three weeks. This seems to be working well to make me feel normal in a male sort of way. I have non of the problems you have asked about. The only side effect I have noticed is that my desire for sexual relations with my wife has increased and she thinks I'm a little more cranky. That's why I wanted to know if you have done everything to make sure your testosterone is at the right level for you. After my wife desides she doesn't want sex anymore, I might try reducing or going off the T.

If there are any questions I can help you with, being an old guy, please feel free to ask. The road you are thinking of going down is not an easy one. It can be difficult and expensive finding people that will help you achieve what you desire. Although you are not transgendered, being asexual is a gender issue. You might start on your road by finding a gender clinic to help you. I know there is one in San Diego, but I went to the Los Angeles Gender Center http://lagendercenter.com/ at the direction of my surgeon, Dr. Alter and after three visits the theropist, Elise Turen, recommended me for surgery. She might be a good one for you to call for advice. She was a wonderful person to talk to. I never thought I would be able to talk to a woman about myself, but I had no problem talking to her. She is a wonderful, caring person. If you call her, tell her Steve who told her about the Eunuch Archive sent you. She should know who your talking about. I was her first eunuch. Elise also knows of other surgeons that do castrations, but I got the feeling she thought Dr. Alter was the best. I have no complaints. If you haven't read my thread, you might want to read all that I went through to achive my goal. http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7385

I hope this helps, Steve

[graylayer02 (imported)]

...

[talks about T levels - see my reply]

When I tried Depo-provera, I found I didn't like the way it made me feel. I still was determined to be castrated, but I new I would need some kind of HRT. If you have read my thread, you know I have gender problems and wish I had been born a woman. Given my physical appearance I am not a good candidate for trying to become a woman. I opted instead to get rid of that which was most offensive to me, my testicles and scrotum. I am currently taking 300 mg depo-testosterone every three weeks. This seems to be working well to make me feel normal in a male sort of way. I have non of the problems you have asked about. The only side effect I have noticed is that my desire for sexual relations with my wife has increased and she thinks I'm a little more cranky. That's why I wanted to know if you have done everything to make sure your testosterone is at the right level for you. After my wife desides she doesn't want sex anymore, I might try reducing or going off the T.

If there are any questions I can help you with, being an old guy, please feel free to ask. The road you are thinking of going down is not an easy one. It can be difficult and expensive finding people that will help you achieve what you desire. Although you are not transgendered, being asexual is a gender issue. You might start on your road by finding a gender clinic to help you. I know there is one in San Diego, but I went to the Los Angeles Gender Center http://lagendercenter.com/ at the direction of my surgeon, Dr. Alter and after three visits the theropist, Elise Turen, recommended me for surgery. She might be a good one for you to call for advice. She was a wonderful person to talk to. I never thought I would be able to talk to a woman about myself, but I had no problem talking to her. She is a wonderful, caring person. If you call her, tell her Steve who told her about the Eunuch Archive sent you. She should know who your talking about. I was her first eunuch. Elise also knows of other surgeons that do castrations, but I got the feeling she thought Dr. Alter was the best. I have no complaints. If you haven't read my thread, you might want to read all that I went through to achive my goal. http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7385

I hope this helps, Steve

Steve: Thanks a lot for sharing your wisdom. My doctor (who's an endocrinologist) and I actually checked out my T levels precisely for this reason, since low T was something I had suspected. In fact, I was mildly surprised when it came out to be fairly average. But I will definitely take your advice and go to other sources--my graduate student health insurance probably won't like it, but it's been a struggle to come to terms with asexuality; I'd spent the past 15 years trying really hard to be sexual. But either way, I kind of have the worst of both worlds now, and life would obviously be easier as a sexual male if I have that chance (for one thing, I'd have much more to do on Saturday nights. ). This is why I asked for advice; I'm still trying to approach this whole issue with an open mind, and I knew that there were people out there like you with experience in these matters.

I've followed your story, and I think that you proceeded with things in a rational way. I'll definitely contact Elise, and I'll look into the gender center down here in SD. It seems so weird to be saying that, since I don't think of myself as TG in any way, and that's what I think of when I think of gender centers. But you're exactly right in saying that I should look into all my options and explore things deliberately--your story is one where you did this correctly and avoided terrible consequences.

I'll definitely let you know how this all goes, and thanks a lot. This is exactly why I'm taking this slowly and asking for advice.

-Chris

[thefraj (imported)]

Chris, how I wish I'd had your insight and articulate nature before I was castrated! Although I am neither in California or the U.S. ... I am within the age group you mention, being a few years younger than yourself and felt much of what you feel in the run up to surgery.

One thing you mentioned - that I am still working through - is your 'asexuality'. I too hated my sexual urges as they were just not me, but still saw (and ... to some extent ... still consider) myself as heterosexual. I still probably lie ever so slightly on the 'male' side of asexual and thus slightly on the heterosexual side of the orientation spectrum. But these are just labels and I only know how I feel, which is close to the centre of the gender spectrum.

Like yourself I find myself attracted to someone with a strong personality, a likable nature - whether a girl or a guy. In my previous job, many male friends would eye the female customers they deemed attractive, and of course I felt like I had to play along. Though, deep down I was just pretending. I was thinking: "she looks sweet, has a nice face, looks like someone I could talk to and enjoy the company of". Rather than "s/he has a hot body and I want to have sex with him or her" which seems quite a distant thought-reasoning process now. I am greatful for that. This is me. Part of what makes me who I am.

Glad to hear you have given some thought to health concerns! (Far more than I ever did!) The osteoperosis is a funny one. It's a risk to be aware of, not a definite consequential hazard. Just like smoking. There is an increased risk of osteoperosis with castration, but also a real possibility that it will never become an issue.

One thing which interests me is that the eunuchs of history were never noted for being cripples. I'm sure some were. I'm sure some women were too. But I'm sure there were plenty of eunuchs who were not. And I think taking calcium supplaments and plenty of milk/cheese etc (which I consume a lot of! ) will certainly help.

Thanks for posting your thoughts as you go through this journey! I can't overemphasize how good it is to see you doing what I didn't do (but should have done!)

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Rog, I have to give you a ton of credit for a lot of the role that you played in this process, whether you realize it or not. You've been forthright about how difficult of a process it's been, and that's really forced me to think things through and not jump into it. Plix and IEunuch too, if they're reading this.

One thing you mentioned - that I am still working through - is your 'asexuality'. I too hated my sexual urges as they were just not me, but still saw (and ... to some extent ... still consider) myself as heterosexual. I still probably lie ever so slightly on the 'male' side of asexual and thus slightly on the heterosexual side of the orientation spectrum. But these are just labels and I only know how I feel, which is close to the centre of the gender spectrum.

In my case, I don't hate my sexual urges--to the contrary, this would be less of an issue if I really had them. Throughout my life, I've tried to force myself to think sexually, but it just hasn't worked. Steve, writing above, makes the good point that I should work extra-hard to exclude a biological basis for this, and he provided some helpful information which I'll pursue before going into chemical castration. Apart from this, everything else is on an even keel--in this sense, I'm very lucky.

...

And I think taking calcium supplements and plenty of milk/cheese etc (which I consume a lot of! ) will certainly help.

Go enjoy some stilton and port; you deserve it. Or cheddar and ale, another good English combo.

Thanks again.

-Chris

[mrt (imported)]

Hi Chris:

I've had to deal with impotence issues. It is very often a sign of serious health issues and may have nothing to do with hormones. I urge you to address this issue with your doctor and find the cause. If its treatable you might want to give staying intact another chance. Hormone wise 500 is not a "bad" level but its not great for a guy your age. Steve made a good suggestion about looking at that. A guy your age without a sex drive is to say the least "unusual" - Again I urge you to find the cause and try addressing that.

James

Rog, I have to give you a ton of credit for a lot of the role that you played in this process, whether you realize it or not. You've been forthright about how difficult of a process it's been, and that's really forced me to think things through and not jump into it. Plix and IEunuch too, if they're reading this.

In my case, I don't hate my sexual urges--to the contrary, this would be less of an issue if I really had them. Throughout my life, I've tried to force myself to think sexually, but it just hasn't worked. Steve, writing above, makes the good point that I should work extra-hard to exclude a biological basis for this, and he provided some helpful information which I'll pursue before going into chemical castration. Apart from this, everything else is on an even keel--in this sense, I'm very lucky.

Go enjoy some stilton and port; you deserve it. Or cheddar and ale, another good English combo.

Thanks again.

-Chris

[graylayer02 (imported)]

So here seems to be the plan, after getting a lot of advice and thinking about things even more. I'll condense it down a bit:

1. I have another doctor's appointment coming up, so I'll push the testosterone issue HARD. I chose her because of her sympathetic ear, and she is in fact an endocrinologist. I hadn't imagined that there was any possibility that my current testosterone levels were "too low for me", but I even have eunuchs telling me that they think I should try raising my T levels first. So this is currently Plan A, as it was a couple of months ago before I misleadingly gave up on it based on my actual T levels. I just felt crushed getting back these "normal" results.

2. If that doesn't work, off to the gender center. God, that sounds really strange to me. There could very well be another brain-based cause for my asexuality, one that isn't curable. In this event, time to go the opposite route and bring my T down, and see how that goes. This is Plan "C".

3. It may very well be that neither of these options works out very well, in which case I've come full circle without making any life-changing decisions that I'll regret.

It's my job to make models and simplify things. Basically, I would rather be a totally normally functioning male, OR I'd like to try to bring things more in line with my asexuality. As it is, I'm kind of in the middle right now, and it really stinks.

This is exactly why I posted here for advice, and I thank all of you from the depths of my heart. I'll continue to remain around here to share what I learn, and I am still interested in meeting people and learning about their experiences.

Thanks again.

-Chris

[mrt (imported)]

So here seems to be the plan, after getting a lot of advice and thinking about things even more. I'll condense it down a bit:

1. I have another doctor's appointment coming up, so I'll push the testosterone issue HARD. I chose her because of her sympathetic ear, and she is in fact an endocrinologist. I hadn't imagined that there was any possibility that my current testosterone levels were "too low for me", but I even have eunuchs telling me that they think I should try raising my T levels first. So this is currently Plan A, as it was a couple of months ago before I misleadingly gave up on it based on my actual T levels. I just felt crushed getting back these "normal" results.

2. If that doesn't work, off to the gender center. God, that sounds really strange to me. There could very well be another brain-based cause for my asexuality, one that isn't curable. In this event, time to go the opposite route and bring my T down, and see how that goes. This is Plan "C".

3. It may very well be that neither of these options works out very well, in which case I've come full circle without making any life-changing decisions that I'll regret.

It's my job to make models and simplify things. Basically, I would rather be a totally normally functioning male, OR I'd like to try to bring things more in line with my asexuality. As it is, I'm kind of in the middle right now, and it really stinks.

This is exactly why I posted here for advice, and I thank all of you from the depths of my heart. I'll continue to remain around here to share what I learn, and I am still interested in meeting people and learning about their experiences.

Thanks again.

-Chris

There is an age vrs T chart. I have one here in fact. The median level at your age is just about 650. Get a panel of all your basic hormones. If you have wacky low levels of Estrodiol for example that will do some very odd things. Tell her in detail about your asexual feelings and "expect" a diagnosis. If she can't figure it out ask for a referall. And DO mention the impotence issues. As I said this is often the sign of a serious health issue and maybe a clue that will help get you fixed up.

[kristoff]

This whole thing reminds me of my ex partner McR. Tremendously Asexual, although very loving, empathic, caring person, very gentle, highly intelligent, everything I could love in a man, and more. I could not get that man to be sexual to save his, mine, or anyone's life (probably not really a bad thing - shall we discuss subconscious desires in partners? - Never mind).

He is today 38, gorgeous, asexual, happy, and sporting a t-level over 800. He doesn't care; neither do I; hormones are not a complete answer. Nothing is; balance it all.

I am reminded that life is like a many faceted diamond. In total it is absolutely beautiful; however, many of us focus on only a few facets. One need look at the whole to appreciate the facets, yet ignore them to appreciate the whole.

[BudleyBare (imported)]

...

I am reminded that life is like a many faceted diamond. In total it is absolutely beautiful; however, many of us focus on only a few facets. One need look at the whole to appreciate the facets, yet ignore them to appreciate the whole.

Kristoff,

This is, in my opinion, yet another profound insight into how to really enjoy what life offers. Isn't this a wonderful web site, with really great people!

Thank you!

[tugon (imported)]

Chris I wish you all the best in your journey. As BudleyBare said "this is a wonderful web site with really great people" and I could not agree more.

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Thanks all, again--this is exactly why I was asking for advice and support. After conversing with a few of you for about the past week, I've decided that I need to figure out what's causing this asexuality FIRST (seek a diagnosis or, alternatively, establish a chain of causation), before I mess around with lowering my testosterone, if at all. If it's something such as a hormonal imbalance, then I'd probably be much better off correcting that directly and living as normal a life as possible. That would be a hell of a journey in itself. Other curable biological causes would go into this category as well.

On the other hand, if this is solely due to something that's biological and incurable (say, Asperger's, which causes the brain to be "wired" in strange ways), then it's time to put more thought into what I really want and don't want and proceed slowly. But either way, I need to know what's going on biologically and mentally, lest I make a huge mistake like many people have before me.

Either way, as the header of this thread suggests, I'm in for some kind of journey; it will be long and slow. I don't know where the destination is, but it will be quite interesting. Thanks a lot for all of your support, and as things progress, I'll keep you updated.

All the best,

-Chris

[nonuts (imported)]

Chris, as a eunuch that became that way due to cancer, I can tell you hormone balancing is a very tricky business. Be prepared for tons of blood tests, your doctor will be watching everything from your red blood count to your PSA scores if she does decide to put you one HRT. I don't see where you mentioned your level was 500 above, only saw that number from Mrt, did you mention it yourself? 500 is within the range, but remember the range is applied to men 18-80 years of age. Following my castration, my level was 270 with no balls at all...believe it or not, that is at the very bottom of "normal". I have found I don't "feel" right unless my levels are around 700-900, but then I have to watch the RBC count (to many red blood cells can lead to dangerious clotting). I am 34, so within the same age as you, and was castrated at 30. I have never been that sexually inclined (driven) I guess, and still am not, but when I do have sex I am able to do just fine. When I masturbate, I have very hard erections, and orgasm completely normally. This all leads me to believe 2 things, one you are simply not a sexually driven man, and 2 your T-Levels are subpar. Correcting your t-levels will not necessary change your attitudes or desire for sex. But, by having more firm erections even with masturbation, you may feel more confident about it when it does happen...this might be holding you back to some degree. I wish you the best, and if you ever need to talk, I've been down this road, feel free to contact me.

[hardlivin (imported)]

Chris "Dont do it!".im 27 and was not castrated by choice.i would give anything to atleast have 1 testicle!u said u want to maintain a healthy lifestyle..well that all will change if u get castrated!tiredness,fatigue,hotflashes,mood swings, and hormones goin every other way.now im different from your situation because i am attracted to women physically and mentally and would say im a sexually active man(when i build the confidence to have it).bottom line dont do it! i see alot of people do it for other reasons but it dont seem like u fall in them lines!im shore theres other ways u can go about this without cuttin them! - good luck

[Kangan (imported)]

Chris "Dont do it!".im 27 and was not castrated by choice.i would give anything to atleast have 1 testicle!u said u want to maintain a healthy lifestyle..well that all will change if u get castrated!tiredness,fatigue,hotflashes,mood swings, and hormones goin every other way.now im different from your situation because i am attracted to women physically and mentally and would say im a sexually active man(when i build the confidence to have it).bottom line dont do it! i see alot of people do it for other reasons but it dont seem like u fall in them lines!im shore theres other ways u can go about this without cuttin them! - good luck

How about telling the rest of us how you came to lose your testicles?

[hardlivin (imported)]

My Left Testicle Was Removed When I Was 3 And My Right One Twisted And Shrunk When I Was 13