Discussion 2: The balance of reality.

[BossTamsin (imported)]

Before we get to the question and discussion, there are some ground rules for this thread.

NUMBER 1: There are going to be NO bans resulting from any discussion on this thread.

NUMBER 2: Replies will NOT be edited or deleted by any of the moderators.

NUMBER 3: I want everyone to share their views on this question.

These are hard rules, being handed down from on high. I want honesty, not "yes-men". This is your archive too, but it may not be for long if you don't speak out. There is one other request though. Just because you will not be tossed does not mean you should start attacking others. This isn't a rule, but I'm asking all of you to try and remain polite and friendly. Surely you can get your message across without personal attacks or insults.

There will be no poll. If you have an opinion, even a one line reply can help considerably, and takes next to no time.

DISCUSSION 2:

Now this was always intended to be the topic of the second discussion, but I was quite interested to see more than a few people mention it in the first thread. Now, for this thread please disregard the story section. I can't even think of a way to tip the balance for that area, and wouldn't want to try.

I've been coming to the EA, like so many others, for quite a few years now. Hell, it's probably been at least a decade, and most likely longer even than that. I can remember the early days, when you didn't know if it would still be up from one day to the next, and the beginnings of the message boards. I can also remember that from day one, this place had a massive fantasy component to it, and reality was somewhat harder to come by. AS the site grew, some of the users started fighting to bring more reality to the EA. This was not a bad thing. It enabled us to become an amazing resource in terms of real-life information about castration and penectomy.

My question is, do you think there is some kind of ideal balance between fantasy and reality we should be aiming for? Is there too much reality on the boards, and not enough fantasy? Do we still have too much fantasy?

If we need more of one, how should we encourage it? Do you think the balance needs changing, and if so in what direction?

[estragen (imported)]

sounds like an impossible task to micromanage and funnel people's natural interests to achieve an artificial balance although your intentions to make more people feel comfortable are heartfelt and touching.

[dingbat (imported)]

Bearing in mind the remit of this thread I wanted to add something. It might well mean that some members of the forum don't like me much afterwards but, hopefully, people will understand the point I'm making and not take it personally.

I have quite a bit of difficulty with some of the fantasy aspects of the forum. When I first arrived here I was surprised to see the fantasy parts of the board (I really don't know why!). Of course, I can choose whether to read them or not, no-one is forcing me to read them. In general, I don't. They just don't interest me and, frankly, some of them bother me! I wouldn't dream of judging someone else's choices or desires but I do think people need to be able to use a certain amount of personal discretion when viewing the forums. It isn't, perhaps, too easy to work out what you might be about to see/read just from the main forum titles.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the fantasy elements to the forum just that some of them go way over what I feel comfortable with. That's a personal decision though, not a value judgement.

I think you probably need both aspects in order to make the forum function as a whole.

[tugon (imported)]

Having found the EA after castration I was past fantasy and heavily into reality. Prior to castration fantasy was an incredible part of my day to day thoughts. Any mention or story about castrations would have me excited in a second. Problem being fantasy does not prepare you for reality. So I would find the mix of both important. Even more important I think would be a way to help new members differentiate between reality and fantasy. A seperation of autobiographies from fantasies by creating new sections for both might be helpful. A reader searching the boards would know what they will be reading. They could enjoy themselves with fantasy and then learn about reality. Of course those posting would need to be honest and if a mod from vast experience thinks it is just fantasy I think the thread should be moved to fantasy if posted elsewhere.

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

I was first brought to EA many years ago by the storys (all fantasy). I had no computer of my own. The site was crude, unreliable and pretty much bare bones. After several re-incarnations of EA, some major crashes, several user names, having my own computer allowed me to concentrate on my first priority: reality. I read few stories anymore. I find the fusing of the two elements of fantasy and reality sets EA in the center of the real world for most readers. The fantasy is as important to "keeping the dream alive" as is the factual side of things. I don't feel those of us in the world of eunuchry would be well served if either aspect was favored over the other. So I say as a reality based person:"Hooray for fantasy! --FLO--

[plix (imported)]

I am a strictly reality person and as such have never been into the fantasy. But that doesn't mean I don't realize that there are people who are into the fantasy, and I see no reason why those people shouldn't be able to enjoy themselves.

I would not mind seeing more of an equal balance between fantasy and reality. I would like to see some sections of the board devoted solely to fantasy, some devoted solely to reality, and some stay neutral. This way we are being fair to everyone and giving both sides a place to call their own.

Someone brought up the idea of a forum or section only for people who are true eunuchs (the person suggested both surgical and chemical but I feel that a surgical only section might be better, along with a separate chemical section possibly - this opinion is controversial but I don't feel that chemical eunuchs have the status of surgical eunuchs). I think such a forum could be a great thing, but the problem would be verification of the eunuch status of each person wanting access to it. I know that I and I believe many others are not comfortable submitting photos, so I don't think that method will work. Any suggestions on how else we might verify someone as a eunuch?

I think that lately there have been too many attacks on posts that are fantasy-oriented. As soon as someone posts a fantasy they have, lots of people jump on that person with all of the horrible consequences of castration. First of all, while castration may bring negative consequences that one should know before one is actually castrated, castration is not all bad. I feel it has positives as well. Second of all, most of these people are just having fun and will never actually go through with castration. They are fantasizing about doing it. There is a difference. Why not let them enjoy their fantasy without having to remind them about reality?

[tjstill (imported)]

As I have mentioned elsewhere on the board recently, I believe the strength of the board lays with the tremendous diversity of people who come here for whatever reason. The only common denominator is an interest in some aspect of castration. People who visit find their own areas of interest and will contribute as and when they feel they should. Any attempt to steer the make up and balance of the types of posts can only be done by restrictions (unless you have found a way to force people to contribute). If you do not like or find interesting any thread or story dont read it. If you start to read something it doesnt take long to see wether you will like it or not. If you do read something you dont like or agree with and feel strongly about then post a concise, constructive, logical reply giving your point of view. If you flame and get involved in personal attacks or threats then expect the wrath of the moderator. The board will go wherever the contributors take it and I am not sure I would like to see this freedom tampered with or refined by a new mission statement or narrowing of perspective. Think how boring it would be if everyone who came here agreed with each other and had all the same interests!

[estragen (imported)]

Hard to argue with that!!

[I Worship Women (imported)]

I have not posted on this forum for a long time, and that was for reasons I won't go into here. But I decided to offer some answers to this thread, and I hope my post here will not be deleted or anything.

About the question of whether there is too much castration reality or too much castration fantasy on this board. That is a difficult question to answer. It is difficult to answer because there are so many individual members here, and each of us is an individual. What is enough castration reality for one member, may be too much for someone else, and still is not enough for someone else. The same is true for castration fantasy. The fact there are so many individual members here makes it difficult to find a proper balance.

Also, what your situation is may help decide which you are most interested in. Some are interested only in the reality part, others are only interested in the fantasy part.

As long as you have a large number of members, some who are more into the reality, others who are more into the fantasy, it is going to be difficult to find a perfect or proper balance between reality and fantasy.

When I read the opening post I had this thought. Why not have a 2 part message board or a 2 part Eunuch Archive, one part dedicated to castration reality and the other part dedicated to castration fantasy, with perhaps a third part that are castration related things that would be of interest to all members regardless of whether they are into the reality or the fantasy?

Things like stories would go in the fantasy part. Things about Dr Kimmel and other surgeons who do real castrations would go in the reality part. And so on.

When someone comes to Eunuch Archive they could right away go to the part that interests them most.

I do feel there also needs to be a general section that would have castration items of interest to all members regardless of whether they are into reality or fantasy.

You asked for our thoughts about this, and these are my thoughts about it.

[Kangan (imported)]

We need both the fantasy and the reality.

It was the fantasy that brought me here. It is the reality items that keep me here. I also enjoy the stories.

[jemagirl (imported)]

I can't imagine the EA without stories and fantasy components, even though I am no interested in that aspect myself. I would almost say that the Fantasies & Biographies should be separated, but for a lot of people who have fantasized about castration since childhood fantasy is part of their biography. I honestly don't see this as a problem.

The reality is this forum is much better than most forums you are likely to find any where on the internet. Maybe people do need to be reminded from time to time about being nice, but if you want to see what flaming really looks like just pop into craigslist. I post occasionally in the transgender discussion section under the screen name t-thing.

[gandalf (imported)]

I agree that we need both sides....reality and fantasy. Alathough I have been castrated (medical reasons but NOT cancer) and really love being nutless, I still enjoy the well written stories. Two forums would be difficult to manage. I wold like to see more medical items.

[PitLoverVA (imported)]

We need both. At the beginning we were heavy on fantasy. Things have now swung the other way, it seems to me. As others have noted, this is probably a function of the population of frequent users. There's no perfect balance, but we can provide more and better places for people of all interests to take part. We can also make a commitment to not disfavoring either group.

As I noted on the other thread, I'm all for splitting the biography and fantasy topics. I know folks' biographies and fantasies can be heavily intertwined at times, but the separation will allow one section to deal with the historical, clinical, psychological, and developmental issues while leaving the other to be a purely "fun" category, whatever that may mean. I'd also suggest that the new fantasy forum be mostly unmoderated (within legal limits and with appropriate disclaimers -- e.g., no flames allowed, readers/posters beware, etc.). Perhaps move the new fantasy category to the story writers/readers area and rename the whole section something like "Fantasy, Fiction and Feedback".

There should also be plenty of space for the reality oriented folks, but I'd be strongly opposed to having any area of the forums strictly private. While I enjoy the fantasy and fun side quite a bit, I'd horribly miss being able to read and take part in the reality aspect of the site. Quite frankly, regardless of my status, I'm not willing to jump through elaborate hoops to have the privilege of reading or posting. It would also defeat the purpose of having this be an archive of information and support for people seeking or living with reality. That having been said, I have no problem with stricter moderation of the reality forums. I'm not talking frequent bans here, but rather gentle, consistent reminders and post closures and deletions that keep the reality sections true to their purpose.

I'd also recommend some changes to the archive chat. Consider adding a fantasy channel to get the wankers out of the lobby in a way that still welcomes them and gives them a place of their own. Also consider adding a eunuchs and seriously seeking channel where moderation is more strict. Penectomy already has its own channel, and with its usual low usage rate, I don't see a need for a separate reality/seriously seeking penectomy channel.

Kevin

[BossTamsin (imported)]

Please don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no desire to punish, censor, or limit the amount of reality we get on these boards. I do not wish to micromanage and attempt to force some magical 'ideal' ratio down people's throats. And I most definitely do NOT want to limit or narrow the scope of the Eunuch Archive. I love the way we get all kinds of people, from all walks of life, who have a ton of different goals and reasons for being here. I think that is the most wonderful thing about this place. I can only think of a very small number of other websites where this happens, and I am incredibly proud that this place is one of them.

What I was considering would be more along the lines of possibly reorganizing the layout of the forums, and even potentially adding new forums, to expand the fantasy area. One idea could even be to divide the forums into three segments. One set of forums would be strictly reality, a second strictly fantasy, and the third neutral (for the Cellar, Open forums, etc)

I am definitely loving the responses so far. Please all of you, keep up the good work.

[I Worship Women (imported)]

What I was considering would be more along the lines of possibly reorganizing the layout of the forums, and even potentially adding new forums, to expand the fantasy area. One idea could even be to divide the forums into three segments. One set of forums would be strictly reality, a second strictly fantasy, and the third neutral (for the Cellar, Open forums, etc)

I like what you are considering very much IEunuch. It would make the forums more user friendly and more efficient.

I think the reality section needs to be kept just that, actual reality. When people come here looking for information they need and want real facts, they don't need someone's fantasies getting mixed in. When fantasy gets mixed into reality people looking for information can get the wrong ideas about things, or get bad information when what they really need is solid down to earth reality. Mixing fantasy into reality like that can even be dangerous, so I do feel there needs to be a definate separation of the reality and fantasy sectiopns. So the reality section needs to be kept solid down to earth reality. While there is always room for improvement, I think Eunuch Archive does an excellent job of informing men considering castration about where they can go to get castrated by a licensed surgeon in a safe medical setting, the risks involved, what life as a eunuch is like, etc. So it's important to keep the reality section solid reality.

The fantasy section should be much more open to whatever. The fantasy section should be a place where people can freely express and share and enjoy their castration fantasies. Whether it is castration fantasies, or any other kinds of fantasies, people's fantasies are a very important part of their lives and they need to have an outlet for them. The fantasy section of Eunuch Archive and of the forums here can help provide an outlet for them. That section needs to be kept fun and free. People shouldn't have to worry if it's ok to express their fantasies here.

I also like the idea of adding more forums. There is a wide range of things that come under the heading of castration reality, and an even wider range of things that come under the heading of castration fantasy. Having more forums means being better able to cover those wide ranges, and that allows Eunuch Archive to serve its members and its guest visitors better.

There are some places where reality and fantasy kind of overlap. For example, I have castration fantasies and the fantasy section is the section I would visit the most. But there is probably some real thing that happened to cause me to have my castration fantasies. There may be something deeper that I'm searching for through them and I would like to understand what it is I'm searching for through them. Dealing with the psychology behind castration fantasies means dealing with the reality that caused them. So there needs to be a neutral section where all members can come together, a section that takes care of that overlap. The neutral section would also be for things effecting Eunuch Archive as a whole, such as messages and information the administrators need to tell all the members about.

I know this has been a long post, and I've probably repeated some of what others have also said. But I hope my suggestions have been of some value. Eunuch Archive is a great site and I enjoy it very much. But we can always improve things, but to do that right members have to share with you and with each other suggestions and ideas on how to make it better.

[mrt (imported)]

This is just off the top of my head. There are many sub groups on EA. Men who have had surgery done for medical reasons that come here to find out what next. On the ether end are extreme fetish folks that may try doing this with cutters in some "scene" and everyone else in the middle. Then you have a second group that lurk and read the story section and get off on the concept but would never do it. For the medical folks and maybe some of the middle of the range folks the "fantasy" / Fetish angle can be a turn off. I know that there are a few posters that seem so obsessed that I just click past anything they say. There are other things that put me off such as the endless stories that involve minors. This is in my opinion really twisted stuff and I think there is a real concern that some young kid who is having minor questions about his sexuality could hurt or kill himself if he started getting off on this kind of stuff.

And I know this was more discussion 1 but the constant political bashing in both directions has never been of interest to me. My religion and Politics are my own biz and I don't need to put down everyone else to feel better about myself. But.... Thats maybe a midwest thing? Or an old guy thing?

If there was a site that delt with this topic but was not into fetish/castration "porn" I would probably spend my time there.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Before we get to the question and discussion, there are some ground rules for this thread.

NUMBER 1: There are going to be NO bans resulting from any discussion on this thread.

NUMBER 2: Replies will NOT be edited or deleted by any of the moderators.

NUMBER 3: I want everyone to share their views on this question.

These are hard rules, being handed down from on high. I want honesty, not "yes-men". This is your archive too, but it may not be for long if you don't speak out. There is one other request though. Just because you will not be tossed does not mean you should start attacking others. This isn't a rule, but I'm asking all of you to try and remain polite and friendly. Surely you can get your message across without personal attacks or insults.

There will be no poll. If you have an opinion, even a one line reply can help considerably, and takes next to no time.

DISCUSSION 2:

Now this was always intended to be the topic of the second discussion, but I was quite interested to see more than a few people mention it in the first thread. Now, for this thread please disregard the story section. I can't even think of a way to tip the balance for that area, and wouldn't want to try.

I've been coming to the EA, like so many others, for quite a few years now. Hell, it's probably been at least a decade, and most likely longer even than that. I can remember the early days, when you didn't know if it would still be up from one day to the next, and the beginnings of the message boards. I can also remember that from day one, this place had a massive fantasy component to it, and reality was somewhat harder to come by. AS the site grew, some of the users started fighting to bring more reality to the EA. This was not a bad thing. It enabled us to become an amazing resource in terms of real-life information about castration and penectomy.

My que

stion is, do you think there is some k

ind of ideal balance between fantasy and reality we should be aiming for? Is there too much reality on the boards, and not enough fantasy? Do we still have too much fantasy?

If we need more of one, how should we encourage it? Do you think the balance needs changing, and if so in what direction?

[Beau Geste (imported)]

If I remember correctly, IE, you are a confessed perfectionist, and I would guess that a well ordered site with everything neatly arranged is the goal of anybody who's always trying to get things just right. I don't criticize that, and my own view is that it is a good idea to clearly separate reality and fantasy. I come here more for the generally "mellow" and eclectic attitudes of many of the members and their posts, than for the material about castration, which I try to understand but still find rather foreign. Anyway, from my experience with other message boards (a lot of them) I think it's a good idea to separate reality and fantasy, mostly because the people interested in reality will eventually stop accessing a website that becomes largely or entirely devoted to fantasy.

I've never read any of the stories, and don't usually read the sections of the message board devoted to fantasies.

[Paolo]

As the roots of the EA were in fantasy, and it has so much evolved over the years, I as well think we do need a Forum reorganization. IE and I discussed this, but ultimately, the layout will be up to him. I think we need more of a separation of fantasy and reality, but also more availability of fantastical ideas and discussions beyond the Story / Author Feedback Forums.

[plix (imported)]

And I know this was more discussion 1 but the constant political bashing in both directions has never been of interest to me. My religion and Politics are my own biz and I don't need to put down everyone else to feel better about myself. But.... Thats maybe a midwest thing? Or an old guy thing?

If there was a site that delt with this topic but was not into fetish/castration "porn" I would probably spend my time there.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree about the politics. I definitely would not miss the political section were it to go. But for some reason most people on a board aren't happy without the existence of a political section regardless of the primary topic of the board. Apparently arguing about politics is a must for most people.

I think you might like a board that is geared toward men who suffer from hypogonadism and are taking TRT in order to improve their lives. These boards do exist, and if you can find a good one I'd definitely recommend checking it out.

One thing I would love to see here is a section for eunuchs/ hypogonadal people who are taking HRT. We do have the chemical castration/hormones section, but I'd like to see the hormones break off and become a separate forum. I think people who are taking HRT either after their castration or for medical reasons could really benefit from a place to discuss the issues surrounding hormone therapy. I know I have many questions myself and wonder about others' HRT experiences as well as have my own to share.