What Make U Male/Female

[confuzed (imported)]

I originally asked this in Dingbat's thread after a long discussion about the differences between the sex's, but I have decided to not steal her thread and do my own. (sorry Dingbat, get well soon)

Anyway, I just want to know how everybody else feels about this, but plz don't be to technical, as u will make my head hurt. lol

Basiclly, what makes a male, male and a female, female?

i.e. hormones, physical, like genitals or mental like when I think I'm female, I am, that sort of thing.

[confuzed (imported)]

I know this is a tremendously stupid question, but for someone like me, who is male and does not want to see myself as male, its a very good question.

Because finding out what makes us male, will help me to know what I have to do, not to be male, if that makes sense.

So I just want everybody's take on this plz

[balletkyle (imported)]

That is one loaded question. One that I feel can not be answered with an answer that will please everyone or one that everyone will agree with.

So for me I believe that what makes us male or female is our soul. I have the soul of an eunuch.

[bobbie (imported)]

Everyone seems to have their own deification of what makes a person a sex. Having meet many Eunuch's there is no pattern that I can find on how they define them self after castration. For many having balls or not makes a person male. Others think them self as still fully male even after castration.

If you ask 10 people to define what sex is I bet you would get at least 10 different answers. Bet many would have more then one answer.

The only one that you should really listen to as to what defines a persons sex is to look inside of ones self. Only you can be the real judge of it.

From some of your other posts I think you maybe trying too hard to put solid walls around what male and female is all about. What is in your heart is what you are truly am. Do not try to make yourself fit into a box. Be yourself and go with your gut feelings.

Gender is both mental and physical. You may be able to change some of the physical appearance. Your mental state is with you and can not really be changed. I am guessing you have been struggling with this male/female thing for most of your life. There is a good number of people in this site that do not even consider them self any gender. You will not get all the answers right away. Most of us have struggled just as you are now doing. Take your time and let life lead you.

[wolverine1 (imported)]

I echo the previous sentiments of other members... for me, i'm definitely in a male body (like duh!) and overall i'm happy with that... when I do eventually get castrated I intend to have a full set of implants to maintain the 'male appearance' despite being a eunuch.

My psyche on the other hand is very definitely more complicated... There is very large part of it (about 40%) that is male in every possible sense, right from how I think and act to my attitude in general, BUT there is also an equally large part that is female, with the all the feminine emotions and feelings attached to that (that doesn't mean I cry at bambi btw! jeez!) The remaining 20% is definitely asexual - not interested in anything related to either sex... it sounds strange but it's almost like a natural detachment from those feelings, kinda like 'switching off' I think is the best way to describe it.

Without wishing to sound preachy or sanctimonious, I would definitely recommend counselling to anyone having serious doubts / confusing issues as at the end of the day, a person like me is only talking for a personal viewpoint and not a professional one... It took me a long time to be comfortable with all the aspects of my personality and realise that we are all ultimately individuals... The idea of male/female is just another example of society forcing it's views on everyone that you must be one or the other, you can't be both or none...

[tjstill (imported)]

In behavioral terms I believe there are as many things that can make you look male or female to someone else as there are aspects to any individual personality (lots and lots!!!!). Women and men as individuals can react in different ways to different circumstances and depending upon how you interpret the reaction from your perspective you can assign a level of maleness or femaleness to the response you observe.

From a purely physical aspect its is by definition secondry and primary sexual characteristics (hairy chest, beard, voice, and of course sexual aperatus).

I apreciate your question is motivated by a desire to appear more femnine however this desire will always be limited by the aspects and chartacteristics being judged by the observer and how they `weight`them

in terms of sexuality (just think of women you know and consider what aspects of their behaviour you consider masculine and how this may `rank`them in terms of femininity, someone else may rank them differently).

Consider who you wish to look femenine to and what traits they may consider feminine and try to behave accordingly. Good luck

[mrt (imported)]

I originally asked this in Dingbat's thread after a long discussion about the differences between the sex's, but I have decided to not steal her thread and do my own. (sorry Dingbat, get well soon)

Anyway, I just want to know how everybody else feels about this, but plz don't be to technical, as u will make my head hurt. lol

Basiclly, what makes a male, male and a female, female?

i.e. hormones, physical, like genitals or mental like when I think I'm female, I am, that sort of thing.

I remember reading the book "Everything you wanted to know about sex but was afraid to ask"

The author (I think) stated that M2F Transexuals were castrated men with surgical scars that resembled female sex organs. Now, having been here and had my own issues with hormones I've learned the power they exert in wiring us (me anyway) to be how I am. Then I see a "woman" like Dr Bowers who was born with male "parts" who has gone thru GRS and takes hormones and whew... A real "babe" for a castrated man with surgical scars that resemble female sex parts. And then I listened to a report of a "women" who was taking male hormones as she started her F2M sexual transition and I recognized all the "symptoms" of male puberty. I've never dabbled with Female hormones but I've talked to several members here who have and I believe that going on a lifetime path of that does change a persons wiring. Heck going on a normal level of male hormones changed the way I was wired! The GRS/SRS surgery clearly makes a person appear more like the new sex and I think that these folks that look at the XXs and YYs should try HRT for 6 months and find out whats really going on in the other half!

If you have any questions about your own sexuality why not sit down with an expert and see if they can help you define it for yourself?

[jemagirl (imported)]

I honestly don't know why I feel the way I do. I know hormones play a part in the way we feel, but there must be something deeper as well, or I would be happy to be what ever my hormones told me to be.

All I know is I tried every thing to makes these feelings go away, but they still persist. I know trying to make them go away hasn't made me happy, and so I decided to try accepting who I am inside. Surprisingly this makes me feel very good even though I am not on HRT at this moment.

What do other people see when they look at me? Mostly the outside I suppose.

[satanherself (imported)]

Well I think as a being you need BOTh,,as anything in life a balance,,the question you ask is hard to answer mostly because it seems you are asking from 1 gender to another.The time spent in the gender you were born is ingrained and will never just "go away" and should you adopt another gender role then that life and it's expeiences will co exist with the original ones. I call it 3rd gender as you will see things from 2 points of view.Some things will remain the same some will change completely,,some reinvented.HRT will help to change a

visual image,and this in turn will change how you may act or fell about yourself,but it will not change you BRAIN. Who you are will remain the same,at some point you will find a happy medium and be comfortable in your own skin

and whoever that person is ,is what the real goal is about. Hope that all makes sense

[A-1 (imported)]

I know this is a tremendously stupid question, but for someone like me, who is male and does not want to see myself as male, its a very good question.

Because finding out what makes us male, will help me to know what I have to do, not to be male, if that makes sense.

So I just want everybody's take on this plz

O.K.,

You want an opinion, here's mine.

There are NO 100% male OR 100% female personalities. Instead, we are a complex makeup of traits, preferences and habits that define our masculinity or feminity.

You are what you percieve yourself as being. Your body is but a shell in which your soul resides. Your body can be changed more easily than can your soul.

Therefore, search your soul for your heart's desire. Generally, you are not what you are by mistake, but you are what you are because you were made that way by forces that humanity understands little about.

When you finally decide what it is that you are, and why you are the way you are, then you can live with yourself much more effectively or at least make plans to do so.

Seek fulfillment in youself. Do not look for fulfillment in others. That way, IF you are ever disappointed, you only have yourself to blame and to understand and to forgive. This is much easier than trying to understand the world which is generally a cruel and selfish place, seeking to overpower gentle souls and kind hearts.

Grow a thick hide to protect your inner child. Find a higher power to love and to respect that is strong, benevolent and kind. Load the things that you cannot handle in this world upon that higher power deferring to it's judgment, trusting in it's power and basking in it's glow. Do not take on things that you cannot hope to understand.

Finally, remember, if it is human, it usually cannot be trusted. If it is, however, spiritual and God-like, it will not let you down. Look for love and kindness, it is everywhere but it is not always recognizable.

Shun evil, ...evil thoughts, evil persons and evil deeds. Evil is a virle thing that once started CANNOT stop reproducing without being killed. Never start it yourself.

[confuzed (imported)]

First off, I would like to thank you all for some really interesting posts.

I suppose, like I have been told on a TG forum recently, no one can tell me, it is down to me to decide what makes me what I want and who I am. Life really isn't easy, is it.

The way I see it now is, I haven't decided if transitioning is truly what I want, but I definitely don't want to be male anymore. I just have to work out in my head how to achieve this, and thanks to your replies I'm a step closer now.

Some people have mentioned counseling, and I'm happy to tell you, I went to see my doctor last week, and have told her I have gender issues, and she is arranging for me to see someone about it. This is a really big step for me, as even thought I have had TG thoughts all my life, its only the last few months I have told anyone about it. So fingers crossed I will get sorted one way or another.

Thanks again

Confuzed

[mrt (imported)]

First off, I would like to thank you all for some really interesting posts.

I suppose, like I have been told on a TG forum recently, no one can tell me, it is down to me to decide what makes me what I want and who I am. Life really isn't easy, is it.

The way I see it now is, I haven't decided if transitioning is truly what I want, but I definitely don't want to be male anymore. I just have to work out in my head how to achieve this, and thanks to your replies I'm a step closer now.

Some people have mentioned counseling, and I'm happy to tell you, I went to see my doctor last week, and have told her I have gender issues, and she is arranging for me to see someone about it. This is a really big step for me, as even thought I have had TG thoughts all my life, its only the last few months I have told anyone about it. So fingers crossed I will get sorted one way or another.

Thanks again

Confuzed

I'm happy for you that you were able to speak to your Doctor about this. I've had to deal with a variety of embaressing problems that my MD has helped me with. I thank God I got fed up with my old Doctor and decided to give her a try.

I suspect the person she sends you to will help you decide what it is you want to really do. It will probably be a lot of soul searching to make up your mind. Be receptive to what they say and make the best choice you can.

[JesusA]

Sex/gender questions like this are very difficult to even begin to answer. First, there are so many very different factors to consider. Second, there are definitely more than two choices.

Even at the simplist and most clearly measurable level - sex chromosomes or external plumbing system - there are more than the polar dichotomy of "male" and "female." In basic biology we're usually taught that there are XX (female) and XY (male) chromosome possiblities for humans. As an afterthought we may learn that there are alternatives: XO, XXY, XYY, etc. There are even rare cases where what starts out to be fraternal twins fuse into a single embryo in the very early stages and a single baby is born with some body parts XX and other body parts XY.

We all know about the traditional hospital scene where, when a baby is born, the doctor looks and declares, "It's a boy" or "It's a girl" based on the presence of a penis or of a vagina. In about one in 2,000 cases he can't tell because the genitals are intermediate in appearance. Even within those who are assigned to one sex on the basis of external plumbing, there can be wide variation. We can easily recognize some of that variation in the gym, between those with a penis fit for a porn star at one end and those with a "micro-phallus" (under three inches, erect) at the other. All are lumped together as "male." And that's only one part of the plumbing system.

Even with these two simplist and most straight-forward ways to determine sex, it's much more complicated that just either/or.

Then we get to the complicated parts....

There are hormones (at various levels) and internal plumbing, but what's inside the head is probably much more important than any other set of factors. This is were we get to transgendered, sexual orientation, sexual attraction, etc.

One of my colleagues in the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality claims to have isolated a minimum of TWENTY-EIGHT different scales on which human sex and gender can be measured, starting with chromosomes and external plumbing....

If every scale had only two points (and most have three or more), this would mean that there are two to the twenty-eighth power different possible combinations of sex and gender among humans. That's vastly more humans than have ever lived. With more than two points on each scale, there may be more different sex/gender combinations possible among humans than there are atoms in the universe!

Your goal is to figure out what you are and NOT to try to cram yourself into the "male" pigeonhole or "female" pigeonhole. Be comfortable with yourself and those who matter will be comfortable with you. You can choose male, female, eunuch, other, neither, or anything else that is you.

In public, you will probably want to dress and affect the mannerisms of either "male" or "female" to some extent, to make life easier when around people who don't know you. But, what you are INSIDE is whatever you truly are. It need not match your external presentation so long as you are comfortable.

A GOOD counselor gives no answers, but only asks good questions to help you find your own answers.

[Mac (imported)]

Many people have found it possible to present themselves as the sex of their internal feeling regardless of their external plumbing for most purposes. However, society does not always recognize that designation.

Individual choice is sometimes denied when it comes to public exercise facilities, locker rooms, restrooms, fitting rooms, sports, etc. if your external plumbing does not match that of the designated sex. Your designated choice will always be denied for prison and similar facilities if your external plumbing does not match that of the designated sex no matter how much your appearance and actions resemble those of that sex.

Why should our external plumbing be the primary determing characteristic for assigning gender in these circumstances?

How should a nullo guy, an MTF woman with a penis, or an FTM man without a penis be assigned in these (and other) circumstances?

[JesusA]

Why should our external plumbing be the primary determing characteristic for assigning gender in these circumstances?

How should a nullo guy, an MTF woman with a penis, or an FTM man without a penis be assigned in these (and other) circumstances?

As a professional anthropologist who has studied a wide variety of human cultures, I can assure you that logic has nothing to do with behavior.

[homptydumpty (imported)]

O.K.,

You want an opinion, here's mine.

There are NO 100% male OR 100% female personalities. Instead, we are a complex makeup of traits, preferences and habits that define our masculinity or feminity.

Seek fulfillment in youself. Do not look for fulfillment in others.

i a starting the day off with this in mind, just reading your thoughts has a profound impact on my thought path.

in my mind, i am nothing more than a walking talking caracas. yes, i do carry female characteristics, i also carry many male. i wear make-up, very feminine, right? yet i also have a very foul mouth, worse than any sailer, masculine?

in the end, what makes me who i am, not one nor the other, is the underlying fact that i really dont care for the "two door concept". as creatures within the vast universe we have spent too much time making ourself and our society into one or the other, man or women.

some of us, maybe more of us than i think, are happy just being the way we are. to not have to blanket your male characteristics in order to in hance the female/ vice versa. Why be so alike another?

be yourself, fallow you desires, yet dont let them completely control who you are and how you live your life.

im trying to say, that i am not a girl or a boy, despite what my birth cartif. or license says. i am genderless, a eunuch maybe. i am androgynous. unisex. life is what has made me this. i keep myself this way cause i am happy. i like being true to myself, threw expressions of male or female acts. today i wear jeans, tomorrow a dress!

z

[The Old Man (imported)]

I originally asked this in Dingbat's thread after a long discussion about the differences between the sex's, but I have decided to not steal her thread and do my own. (sorry Dingbat, get well soon)

Anyway, I just want to know how everybody else feels about this, but plz don't be to technical, as u will make my head hurt. lol

Basiclly, what makes a male, male and a female, female?

i.e. hormones, physical, like genitals or mental like when I think I'm female, I am, that sort of thing.

That is a very good question and the best answer I have ever found is in a book witten in 1978 by Mason A Clark. It can be downloaded from his website in html format at http://masonc.home.netcom.com/homosexuality.html and does a thorough job of describing the various things that can go wrong with a baby, starting when the sperm and ovum that will make the baby are made and ending with the birth of the baby. Although his original interest was in the possibility of medical mistake that could result in a generation of homosexuals, he tried to cover all the mistakes. Chapter 15 covers about 23 possible outcomes in addition to the normal male and female that society wants. This includes homosexuals, transsexuals, and tomboys among many others.

The following note should be taken seriously:

NOTE: This entire book is on one web page for convenience in printing. It is more than 400 KB so allow time to download. It will print to about 90 pages. Partial reading is discouraged.

It is not a quick or easy read; it has things in it like the structural formulas for testosterone, estrone, cortisone, and diethylstribestrol (DES), a "broken" estrogen that was a major medical mistake. But, when you are done, you will have a good understanding of what it takes to make a normal male and female, and the other possibilities lurking, some of which are of obvios interest to the users of the EA message boards.

[invivo (imported)]

Society makes genders, shure they are based on biological markers, but in many non western cultures, gender was not so fixed on bio markers as it is now, in some native american cultures, children where asked about what they feel or observed. Even in islamic cultures gender was changeable at some point in ones life.

The medical view has put us more into our bodies and erased the more spiritual model. Yet I believe gender to be social. Its how we see ourselves, with which role, what clothes to wear, its sad how often TG people try so much to follow the rigid binary gender model, and some cant make it.

I feel not like my bio sex, but I dont feel male either, if I could I prefer no gender, I am amazed when I hear about kids the age of 2 to claim their gender, in case of TG kids the opposite one. How do they know?

Here is a link: How many gender?

http://web.uvic.ca/~ahdevor/HowMany/HowMany.html