RE: Gonex

[JesusA]

Since the Gonex Corporation and their current research and field testing of a single-shot injection to produce castration has already been brought up on this site, we probably should speculate about the effects which such a drug might have. The medication that the company is developing will work for any mammalian species, from cattle, dogs and cats to humans. It will provide permanent and irreversible castration of both males and females with a single shot. It works by stopping all production of either testosterone or estrogen by the testicles or ovaries and could be used either before or after puberty. (The current trial on dogs will test results of administration both before and after sexual maturation of the animals.)

As described on the Gonex web site, "Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) is secreted by the brain. GnRH binds to specific receptors on cells (gonadotropes) in the pituitary gland and stimulates synthesis and secretion of two other hormones (LH and FSH), that in turn control the production of hormone secretion by the testes or ovaries. By linking GnRH to any of a number of protein synthesis inhibitors, it is possible to cause the death of the gonadotrope cells. This occurs when the gonadotropes internalize the GnRH conjugate as part of the normal process of receptor de-activation. When the number of gonadotrope cells is adequately reduced, there will be inadequate levels of LH or FSH produces to stimulate the gonads and the typical production of testosterone or estrogen will cease." (www.gonex.com)

The company expects their product to be approved for veterinary use by 2004 or 2005, with approval for human use (against prostate cancer, breast cancer, etc.) to follow soon afterwards. Possibly even before it's approved for human therapy, the product could become available through mail order veterinary supply houses and through your neighborhood farm supply store. Once the genie is out of the bottle, she can never be pushed back in. Once this drug is tested and released, it will be reproducible elsewhere if the original manufacturer backs out of production.

What implications does this drug have?

I predict that it will take very little time for some individuals to experiment with uses of the drug well beyond what the FDA will approve. There have already been a couple of posters to the Archive talking about using it on themselves for non-cancer therapy. This, at least, is voluntary use of the drug.

What other, non-approved uses or extensions of its original use do you foresee? Both in the U.S. and in the rest of the world.

What are the ethical and legal implications of this new drug?

Since it provides an "immunization" against sex, will it gain social acceptance anywhere for that use? Religious fanatics? The criminal justice system as a replacement for Depo Provera? Out-of-control Brazilian police as part of a long-term effort to eliminate street children?

Since slavery is still much more common than most people would believe, is this a potential criminal use? The Washington Times recently (January 21) published a first-hand account of a slave auction in Pakistan where Afghan orphan boys and girls, some as young as FIVE years-old (!!!), were being sold to Middle Easterners. What is to prevent the use of an "immunization" to turn a young boy into a better domestic servant?

Other criminal uses?

Anything else that you can think of???

The potential uses (and mis-uses) are giving me nightmares!

[Mandrake (imported)]

There's no doubt that some people will start using it as soon as they can get their hands on it. Basic human nature. Some of my first thoughts were of what the medical side-effect might be. How safe would it be? But yes, the social effects would be far greater. Most people have no serious interest in castration so I don't see the availability of such a drug as sweeping through society, making profound changes. But it couldn't help but change things.

Given the ease of use I feel sure that some people would castrate themselves without giving enough thought to consequences and regret it later. Certainly it would lead to a greater number of people being castrated. I read about "cutters" and people looking for same. I don't know how much reality there is to that but if all it will take is one shot then I think many of them will get their wish, which would probably not been fulfilled otherwise.

Criminal uses? If this drug pans out I would expect to eventually read in the news about the capture of a "serial castrator" (could be male OR female) who'd gone around injecting their victims. That sounds like it getting into the fantasy area but it could happen.

[Farrell_Squire (imported)]

Thanks for the heads-up. This is a very hot development!

I went to the Gonex website and read their information. There are still a few questions left hanging. Although they said the drug was a onetime injection, they didn't indicate whether it would be administered intravenously or just injected into the muscle. I think we are to assume the latter. Also, from the tone of the article, the drug doesn't have to be injected into the testes or ovaries, but just anywhere in the body. No mention was given as to the size of the dosage. I'm going to assume it's rather small - say less than 5 cc's. I will premise my reaction on these assumptions.

As far as the legitimate uses are concerned the drug will be absolutely wonderful. For controlling pet populations and for wildlife management it represents a significant advance. Local animal shelters can quickly train volunteers to administer simple injections. It will no longer require a veterinarian to spay or neuter an animal. (I used to vaccinate calves when I was fifteen - any kid can learn how to use a syringe.) Wildlife officers can administer the drug with tranquilizer guns and various kinds of sets or traps.

As far as human applications, it makes castration (male and female) far too easy, even in a medical environment. It's such a simple painless procedure the patients could easily agree to getting a shot before weighing the consequences and maybe seeking a second opinion. (I wonder if charity clinics, or the VA and such, will always bother to tell the patient what they're doing?) "Nurse, this man's PSA count is a little high. Give him this shot while I'm out of the room. I'll be right back." It's just too easy! I would at least want it in the butt. Rolling up my sleeve for this just seems wrong!

As far as people wanting castration as part of a lifestyle it's going to pretty much solve the cutter problem (unless you also require penectomy or a scene with a lot of pain). For those wanting to be castrated by their lover just as they ejaculate, this becomes a relatively safe scene.

The problem is, of course, it will now become far too easy for someone to be castrated against their will. I imagine all street gangs will quickly add Gonex to their arsenals. The threat of an emasculating injection that can be administered anywhere on the body could possibly instill more a lot more fear in a victim than a 9mm. Muggers will start wielding syringes, perhaps containing nothing but tap water, but just the threat of being hit with Gonex will be sufficient to intimidate their victims.

I'm sure lawmakers will outlaw the drug for the general public and attempt to strictly control its use. But there will be a few years lag time between the date the drug goes on the market and the reaction by lawmakers - kind of like with the date-rape drug, Rohipnol. Also, we don't know how easily Gonex can be synthesized in home labs. It could be very difficult to manufacture, or it could be relatively easy to make, like crystal meth.

Since we don't yet know what the dosage is it's really hard to speculate about delivery systems. If the effective dose is as low as 2 cc's, or less, some very cancelable and devious devices could be built to deliver the payload. Also, we don't know what happens when someone receives less than a castrating dose. Does he/she just produce low levels of testosterone/estrogen for the rest of their life, or do they recover? What effect does hormone replacement therapy have on the victim?

I can think of many scenarios where Gonex may be used and abused. If this drug is what it appears, there's going to be a lot of young people, both boys and girls, who are going to have their sexuality nipped in the bud at an early age. The only thing worse would be some kind of tasteless powder that could be slipped into food or drink with the same effect. And I'm sure some lab is working on that too. Maybe we need to keep working on that cloning thing. Sexual reproduction may become very uncommon in the future.

Farrell

[madscientist (imported)]

This may not have been around long enough for anyone to know if the effects are, indeed, permanent. Are there long-term side effects? Who knows. Only the "human lab rats" will be able to tell us.

Now, re unlawful administration. You both believe that this could be used to castrate someone against their will. Remember, it is possible to poison or dope someone without their knowledge. But how often does that happen? Are most people really that diabolical? How many school or gang-related killings have we heard about recently. Oh sure, doping with Gonex may happen once or twice, but it really is nothing to worry about. Besides, if someone really wants to castrate a guy, there is always a sharp knife or a shotgun blast to the groin. When was the last time you heard of THAT happening?

[happousai (imported)]

I agree with what madscientist says. Sure, a criminal could castrate someone with a simple injection, but even without that drug he could shoot someone dead even easier.

I will be interestedly reading when the "serial castrator" news article comes out, though!

[A-1 (imported)]

...let us look at the implications.

From what I understand this drug causes the death of the cells in the master gland of the body, the pitutary gland, that regulates the release of sex hormones.

Once the injection was done, it would impossible to reverse, with the afore-mentioned cells dying fairly quickly. I am reluctant to speculate but widespread availability of this drug for animals would mean that it would be readily available for humans, too.

I know of many farm supply stores and store chains that offer veterinary supplies for farmers to purchase to use on their animals. Such drugs are not made with the same quality control that drugs intended for humans are, but none the less, they will serve the intended purpose when used on a human.

With that being said the next logical question is whether the drug intended for animal species will have the same effect on a human. I would claim that in the right dosage, it would.

So, the next question is if someone would go out and get the drug to inject someone for whatever reason, what type of charges could be brought against them? Again, I suppose that assault and battery would be the maximum. I know of no other law that would apply in such a situation.

I suppose that one could sue a perpetrator in civil court and win, but the "deep pocket" philosophy of lawsuits demands that whomever you sue have monitary assets to make it all worthwhile. Furthermore, the burden of proof would require that the victim be able to identify the assailant, which could be difficult if the deed were done in a very crowed area, say a subway station or even on a dark, deserted street.

There are lots of implications here and MadScientist is correct in his assertation that crime comitted in the heat of passion is likely to be gruesome. Lorena Bobbitt probably would have not even made the courtroom if she had used this instead of the filleting knife. Hell, Old John Wayne probably to this day wouldn't have known what had hit him. Still, if Lorena Bobbitt had a syringe full of this stuff I bet money that old John Wayne Bobbitt would not have been starring in a poronographic movie without a strap-on or a penile implant.

Well, that is my thoughts on this matter. It is according how cold and calculating the perpetrator is as to the outcome of the act. What's more, if the drug could ever be administered orally, it would be VERY difficult to prove the guilt of someone who spiked some food, a drink or anything else, since it could take a long period of time before the effects were noticed. Hmmm, talk about your Halloween sadists, somebody could sterilize all of the neighborhood children and most probably nobody could prove anything.

The implications of the misuse of this drug are ominous to say the least.

The fact that it is not poison and that the symptoms of its use would be vague at first would mean that by the time the effects of the drug were manifest, the traces of the drug would be out of the victim's system. I would hope that someone here on the archive who feels strongly enough about the potential abuse of this substance would contact the company and suggest that they insert a "marker" into the drug that would make it apparent even years after the drug was used that the drug was administered to an animal or an individual.

IT IS ONE HELL OF A STORY PLOT FOR SOMEBODY HERE!

A-1

[SplitDick (imported)]

There are actually specific laws against "malicious castration" and such. For example, check out this list of felony statutes for North Carolina:

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CProgr ... sp?topic=5

I think there are reasons why "malicious castration" might become more common if there was a Gonex type drug. First of all, it would be a "clean" and "silent" crime (whereas a shotgun blast to the groin is a violent, messy, noisy crime). It is also a cheap crime -- much cheaper than a gun. It is also "elegant" and people might rationalize it as a suitable revenge for rape or general hatred of men. Lastly, there really are feminazis out there who advocate castrating all men. In general I don't think it is a big fear, but such a crime could become more prevalent that one might expect.

[JesusA]

I wish that I could be as optimistic as madscientist and happousai seem to be. I see the metaphor very differently, however. The new medication is not comparable to blowing someone's testicles off with a shotgun blast, but it is, rather, a "new and beneficial immunization" to IMPROVE the quality of life.

If the Gonex Corporation succeeds, every Humane Society and animal shelter in North America will keep a stock of the medication on hand. Volunteers will be trained to administer it to strays as a "good thing" to help keep the animals happier and healthier and to allow them to be adopted more easily. Kennel owners at first, and later some regular pet owners, will buy the medication from on-line pet supply companies to administer to their dogs and cats as a "good thing." Farmers and ranchers won't hire vets to come and administer the shots to their livestock, but will buy it in bulk from farm supplies and through mail order. I helped to castrate steers with a knife when I was a kid. I was probably 12 or 13 when I first gave shots to the animals. It's easy enough to do, and it's a "good thing" to inoculate cattle, etc.

The identical medication, labeled for human use, would be an immunization against hormones that that hasten the spread of cancer and an early death. Administering it would be a "good thing" to improve the quality and quantity of life.

All of the APPROVED uses of the medication would be perceived as highly beneficial. The medication is GOOD and there would be plenty of people in the city who would have used it on puppy dogs and pussycats. There would be plenty of people in the countryside who would have used it on cattle, sheep, pigs, etc. Knowledge of its properties would be nearly universal and access to it would be relatively easy.

I can imagine FAR too many scenarios where someone would use it as a "good thing" in a way that the FDA never approved.

How long before the first parents used it to help their severely physically handicapped son or their daughter with Downs Syndrome avoid the pain and frustration of puberty? In any town like the one where I grew up (and they still do exist!), the first boy to get the wrong girl pregnant and refuse to take responsibility for his actions would be inoculated to prevent him from doing such a thing a second time. It would be seen as a "good thing" by a large part of the local population and widely used as a cautionary tale. Every boy (and girl) would know that such a thing were possible.

I can think of far too many scenarios involving religious fanatics....

I think the possibility of a "militant feminist" deciding to inoculate men against "testosterone poisoning" is much too likely for comfort. It would be easy enough for her to have access both to the medication and to situations where she would have access to the men.

Both of the daily newspapers that I read this morning had the same New York Times Syndicate article today on the resurgence of child slavery in Afghanistan. One of them ran it as the top story on the front page. Unlike the story I referenced in the first posting in this thread, this article focused on boys being sold for domestic labor (rather than girls for sex slavery and small boys as camel jockeys in the Gulf States), but there is growing awareness that children are being sold into slavery in many parts of the world, not just the Middle East. A simple inoculation could make some of them much more valuable. I would, again, be perceived as a "good thing." It's not invasive. It's not mutilation. It's just a simple pinprick to keep them happier and healthier and to prevent some unwanted consequences as they got older.

I'm afraid that I'm a serious pessimist on this one.

[happousai (imported)]

Castration has clear medical disadvantages associated with it though, right? e.g.:

- osteoperosis

- hot flashes

- loss of strength

- sterility (assuming the castrato cares about that)

So it wouldn't necessarily be regarded as a "good thing".

I heard somewhere that boys castrated *before* puberty don't have the osteoperosis/hot flash problem though, is that true?

[A-1 (imported)]

...I thnk that we are missing the point here. Would "castration" laws apply to this? I mean, after all, the testicles would still be there.

The availability of this drug could have a lot of creepy people sticking each other in the ass with hypodermic syringes.

If the medication could ever be administered orally then you could get it and not know how. Just all of a sudden come up a sexual non-functioner.

Like I said before, this is REALLY going to increase the number of the sexualy non-functional.

But the important part about it is that you could have it and not know it for a while. Think about that for a moment. People could also be accused of giving it to somebody when they really did not.

A-1

[spdd (imported)]

That message in which A1 tells about the foodpoisoning

with Gonex and that it affects only weeks after the stuff

is out of the system making tracing of suspects difficult

if one even gets to know what happened.

that message is fucking right.

Gonex is a thing in which private-sector chemistrians have

crossed the border from good chemistry to inhumane

chemistry.

There has always been stuff one can inject in one shot to kill

but that stuff has NOT been available to any looney as

Gonex will be. Furthermore Gonex appeals to the morbidly artist

mind of a looney much more than killing poison.

Gonex will soon be evryfuckingwhere.

It must be stopped.

We will send A1:ns message to the company although it might not help.

But we MUST tell Presnit W.

We MUST send A1:ns message to Presnit W.

Presnit W will stop Gonex.

Presnit W is a christian.

[Farrell_Squire (imported)]

I'm glad to see this thread growing a little. I think it is important that we keep an eye on this drug as it could have very profound impact on society in the near future. I agree with A-1 that the company should put some kind of marker in the drug so that it could be positively diagnosed in the body.

I think the most widespread abuses of the drug will probably be among institutions, especially those overseeing the education and correction of young people. There is a growing trend toward privatization of education in this country with many new private parochial schools springing up in small communities.

The state of Arkansas has recently privatized their youth corrections facility, turning it over to a Texas-based private corrections company. Elected government now has little to do with what goes on inside those chain link walls. Unless someone is killed or suffers visible physical damage, no one will be much the wiser. Private corrections corporations are a growing industry in the state of Texas, housing many prisoners from other states. (Missouri recently retracted their prisoners from private Texas correctional institutions because of abuses aired on national television.)

As mentioned in other posts, the symptoms of a Gonex injection will not be immediate or profound. Anyone who was intoxicated or mildly sedated might not even realize they had been given the shot. Wives could give it to their husbands in their sleep and parents could give it to their children in their sleep. It could possibly even be piggy-backed on a flu shot. Cults and oppressive institutions could use it on kids who rebelled against the group's teachings or were too curious and insisted on asking the wrong questions, thus eliminating them from the gene pool.

The fact that this drug will work equally on females and males will likely have psychological ramifications in society that we cannot yet foresee. Although testosterone can make men aggressive and bellicose, women can be very cruel and vindictive when dealing with a rival. I can foresee all kinds of Gonex scenarios involving girl/girl rivalries; homecoming queen, beauty pageants, competing for boyfriends, even sibling rivalries. Can you imagine if Tanya Harding had gotten her boyfriend to give Nancy Kerrigan a Gonex prick instead of hitting her legs with a club? It might not have taken her out that season, but the next year she wouldn't have filled out those little spandex tights nearly so well! Furthermore, she might never have known or suspected what had happened. This is scary stuff! How many divorce cases in the future are going to end up with one, or both, partners being Gonexed?

Farrell

[Farrell_Squire (imported)]

I have considered writing my congressman and senators in an attempt to give them a heads-up on this drug with plenty of lead time to enact appropriate legislation. However, if they bothered to read my letters at all, they would probably think I was some kind of alarmist pervert and assign Homeland Security agents to watch me instead of the drug. This will have to be brought to their attention in the usual way, waiting until 60 Minutes or 20-20 has aired the horror stories about mass emasculations at spring break parties etc. Then their mainstream constituents will begin to clamor for legislation. With a 2004 release date, it will probably be sometime around 2007-2010 before abuses become widespread enough to attract public attention.

I think whether or not our dire predictions concerning Gonex will come true depends a lot on some factors we don't know yet.

An effective dose of Gonex could consist of 8 to 10 cc's of a heavy viscous liquid that burns like branding iron going in, then makes a knot the size of a tennis ball and puts you in bed for three days (like the old flu shots of the 1960's). If this is the case, nobody can be Gonexed without knowing it. It will be more like the shotgun blast to the groin. It loses its sneaky, subtle aspect.

On the other hand, if it only takes something like 2 cc's of serum; is painless; leaves no knot and little or no soreness (like modern flu shots) then the drug can be administered as we have discussed and predicted above.

Another unknown factor is the ease or difficulty of manufacture. It might take very sophisticated facilities to make the drug, or it may be something that can be cooked off in home labs. We don't know.

Even if Gonex puts a marker in their drug to facilitate diagnosis, generic Gonex from abroad may not have such markers. These generics would become the drug of choice by those who wanted to use it for clandestine purposes.

Lastly, I don't know how the Gonexed individual would react to HRT, either testosterone or estrogen. (Maybe the medically knowledgeable members on this board can help me out here.) Once properly diagnosed, an individual might be able to lead a somewhat normal sex life even though they couldn't reproduce. Or maybe not!

We definitely need to keep an eye on developments concerning this drug.

Farrell

[madscientist (imported)]

I have never heard so many worse-case scenarios in my life! Has anyone concidered that there may be an antidote? I cannot believe that the changes happen overnight. As far as doping is concerned, isn't it now possible to dope people with sex hormone cattle implants, available right now from farm & ranch suppliers, either ground up & taken orally or mixed with vegetable oil & injected? Remember, there is always pain at the site of an IM injection so certainly the victim would wonder what happened.

But, once again, hormone-doping just does not seem to happen. Or at least it doesn't make the news.

[SplitDick (imported)]

Madscientist,

It is true that most of these are worst case scenarios. However, there are some factors with Gonex that are different than other things available today, and might make it more attractive to people looking to make revenge, or control, other people.

Gonex sounds like it will be cheaper than other hormonal injections and implants. On the street, a one week supply of an anti-androgen often goes for about $15. Gonex is apparently permanent at less than $10.

Also, I would disagree that there is always pain at an intramuscular injection site. I've used injectable steroids many times without any serious pain.

Lastly, the idea of an antidote is only useful if you know what happened to you. In this case the symptoms do not occur until the Gonex has had plenty of time to work in your system. It kills cells so is not likely reversable.

In any case, these are worse case scenarios. Rat poison is cheap and available but you don't hear that many cases of people poisoning each other with it.

[spdd (imported)]

women can be very cruel and vindictive when dealing with a rival. I can foresee all kinds of Gonex scenarios involving girl/girl ri

valries;

Oh No!!! all those sad women and girls!

I have considered writing my congressman and senators in an attempt to give them a heads-up on this drug with plenty of lead time to enact appropriate legislation. However, if they bothered to read my letters at all,

they would probably think I was some kind of alarmist

pervert

Let's write to the newspapers. I will here in Finland.

This will have to be brought to their attention in the usual way, waiting until 60 Minutes or 20-20 has aired the horror stories about mass emasculations at spring break parties etc. Then their mainstream constituents will begin to clamor for legislation. With a 2004 release date, it will probably be sometime around 2007-2010 before

abuses become widespread enough to attract public attention.

No! We CANNOT let that happen!

[Paolo]

F.Sq. says:

This will have to be brought to their attention in the usual way, waiting until 60 Minutes or 20-20 has aired the horror stories about mass emasculations at spring break parties etc.

Given the nature of the college types here on the campus near where I work, this isn't really a bad thing. A LOT of them shouldn't be allowed to breed, much less run around loose with an intact sex drive and the means to execute it.

Seriously, though ... as far as wild women injecting poor unsuspecting boys .... A friend of mine who is diabetic filled a syringe of his with saline solution once and shot me in the leg as he would give himself an insulin shot. OUCH! Now granted, maybe HE got used to that, but as far as sneaking up on someone in a bar and doing it?

Nope, ain't buyin' it. He'd notice before you got all the CC's in.

HOWEVER, drunk and passed out in the girls' hotel room is a totally different story.

[Andrew (imported)]

OK, maybe I missed it somewhere, but is there really any evidence that GONAX will work with just one shot? When androcur, depo lupron, and all the rest don't? Sorry to be skeptical here, but...well...I tend to be skeptical.

[Bill (imported)]

The way in which Gonex operates is totally different from say Androcur. In the latter, you are dealing with a transient effect. Gonex operates by linking a protein synthesis inhibitor (AKA poison) to a hormone processed by the cells in the pituitary that generate the hormone that causes the gonads to produce their hormones. (Whew!) Once the pituitary cells take up the altered hormone as part of their normal activity, they die. When enough of them die, there is no longer sufficient triggering hormone to cause the release of the sex hormones. After a time, without the stimulus of the sex hormones, the gonads atrophy which is the same effect that one sees after the long term blocking action of repeated doses of Androcur. Since the hormone used as the carrier of the poison is specific to the pituitary cells, other cells are not affected.

[madscientist (imported)]

The way in which Gonex operates is totally different from say Androcur. After a time, without the stimulus of the sex hormones, the gonads atrophy which is the same effect that one sees after the long term blocking action of repeated doses of Androcur. Since the hormone used as the carrier of the poison is specific to the pituitary cells, other cells are not affected.

How long does it take to atrophy the testis using Androcure or Depo-Provera? According to what I have read the cervix will atrophy after menopause so I imagine the testis will do the same when testosterone production is blocked somehow. The question is will the above 2 drugs do the trick

[A-1 (imported)]

Madscientist, You say that...

Gentlemen, please!

I have never heard so many worse-case scenarios in my life! Has anyone concidered that there may be an antidote? I cannot believe that the changes happen overnight. As far as doping is concerned, isn't it now possible to dope people with sex hormone cattle implants, available right now from farm & ranch suppliers, either ground up & taken orally or mixed with vegetable oil & injected? Remember, there is always pain at the site of an IM injection so certainly the victim would wonder what happened.

But, once again, hormone-doping just does not seem to happen. Or at least it doesn't make the news.

Au contrare,

It is common practice to use growth hormone in the feed of livestock. This is what makes them so big and robust. Now, I cannot prove this next statement but you all need to consider it.

If you look at the children and their parents it is almost always the case that the children have grown bigger and taller than either of their parents. I claim that it is due to the growth hormone residue that is left in the meat purchased from your neighborhood grocery or large food chain grocery.

The hormone is given to the livestock and is to be stopped for a period of time before the livestock is taken to market. Every medicine known to modern medicine goes out of the system by a so-called half life. This means that trace amounts are still there when the livestock is slaughtered. If you don't believe me then research the meat and packing industry in this country.

Remember the "MAD COW DISEASE" epidemic in England and to a lesser extent Europe? Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease is the human counterpart of the malady that crosses species if the proper conditions exist. Look at a couple of these sites and maybe you can get the "feel" of my fears.

http://www.mad-cow.org/

http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/335/Prions.html

Of course, a bunch of Eunuchs here might not be concerned about this, but, after all we are talking a potental extinction. Well, maybe not that, but certainly a species "bottleneck" that holds the potential to significantly reduce the world human population.

I can tell you for a fact that if you EVER saw what went into hot dogs that you would NEVER eat another one. Once in a while they even grind up a cancerous tumor and put it in them when the meat inspectors are not looking. You all might think I am crazy but I claim that you all are naive. You are trusting and taking too much for granted.

If this GONEX corporation actually markets this drug as an alternative to the castration of livestock after say 10 years everybody could be sterile but the vegitarians. Imagine a 20 year-old with no sex drive what so ever. What a shame that what you would have here is a population of sexless children and young adults with all of the frailties of a eunuch that was emasculated at a VERY early age. MALE AND FEMALE because Gonex will work the same way on either sex.

Furthermore, women who nurse their newborns could actually concentrate enough Gonex in their breast milk to make their newborns eunuchs before they are 1 year old.

If you think that I am paranoid, just wait until this shit gets into the human food chain. We won't have enough balls to fight the next Afghanistan war. Finally, there won't be enough people left in the United States to make a decent sized platoon in say a hundred years or so. Your taxes will go sky high because NOBODY will be alive to pay them.

In the end, Paolo may indeed get his wish when he says...

Given the nature of the college types here on the campus near where I work, this isn't really a bad thing. A LOT of them shouldn't be allowed to breed, much less run around

loose with an intact sex drive and the means to execute it.

The sad thing is if I am right or if I am wrong only time will tell. I hope that you all enjoyed LasVegas because there sure won't be any volupuous young women to dance there. No hardbodied men either, all of you Gay fellows. There will only be all these sexless creatures that look like pre-puberty children. What's WORSE, is the fact that there will be NO sex drives in any of them OR us. Maybe this is NOT a BAD thing, but in a generation or so, everybody will die of old age. Not a pretty picture, what?

A-1

[Paolo]

A-1 may have a point on the growth thing.

My 14.5 yo. Godson is 2" taller than me. His 10 year old brother is almost as tall. Lacks 6 inches. The older wears size 11 shoes already. My neighbor's son, 12's. He's 15, and 2 inches taller than me too. I'm 5'9", stopped growing at the end of 8th grade.

Boys seem to be hitting puberty sooner, too. My nephew, 11, is sprouting pubic hair, which I didn't have until I was 13.5 or so. His little brother, 9, has thick fuzz down there that's almost hair. Hell, the Godson is pretty well off down there too ... shameless little boy!

BUT (there's the but again) my other neighbors' boy is almost 15 and he wears size 9, same as me. He shows NO signs of puberty yet and he's a shrimp. He looks 10 ... the way I remember 10.

Overall, though, I am noticing kids are getting bigger, faster, these days. I asked my Dr. about it when my nephew had his tonsils out. He agreed, and he thinks it's the growth hormones as well in meat. Note - the 15 yo angel two doors down hates meat. He never eats fast food burgers and prefers veggies. He'll eat fresh seafood sometimes, but after a few bites of a steak, he's done.

Connection? Who knows.

But back to Gonex ... frightening scenario, isn't it? Makes you want to fire up the Mr. Clonee and get some Xerox kids made ... in full color mode. Possible? Don't know, but it's food for thought.

[JesusA]

It has now been a week and a half since I sent an e-mail to Dr. Paul Jarosz, the president of Gonex Corporation. I asked him to respond to some of the worst case scenarios which members of this board have come up with. He has neither answered my e-mail nor responded on this board.

I wrote also to one of my favorite national columnists, who often writes about ethical and human rights issues. I suggested that there might be a story in Gonex. He wrote back declining. Castration is not a topic which seems to excite enough people yet, though approval of this drug may well change that.

Those of us who are concerned about the potential for misuse of this new drug need to find someone with a large audience who is willing to bring it to public attention. I would suggest that information be sent to local and national editorial column authors. Pick your favorites and send it along. I certainly plan to write to a couple of other potential authors.

[A-1 (imported)]

If you will excuse the expression how's about writing a "HEADS UP" to the FDA and DEA.

You know, there is nothing worse than a Federal agency after your ass.

Hell, maybe even the IRS might have something to say about this.

I would think that these people would be better off selling stuff this to the CIA to put in the water system in Iraq or something...

A-1

[spdd (imported)]

If you will excuse the expression how's about writing a "HEADS UP" to the FDA and DEA.

You know, there is nothing worse than a Federal agency after your ass.

Hell, maybe even the IRS might have something to say about this.

what are those?

national health bureau?

but that would be NHB.

I would think that these people would be better off selling stuff this to the CIA to put in the water system in Iraq or something...

yes, they should try sell it to CIA.

I hope they will.

Thus implying the right market for Gonex.

I don't believe any national bureau would be so evil it would

actually destroy the lives of an innocent people.

even Saddam Hussein is innocent, still.

the water-system of Iraq, btw., was the cradle of Western Civilisation.

the delta of the rivers Eufrat and Tigris.

Mesopotamia.