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Kristoff refers here to the Lynn Conway text in post #121 of this thread.

Post #121.

kristoff wrote: Tue May 27, 2008 9:36 am What I find interesting is the approach in letting go after the failure of "regendering" in the mind's eye of the person you are dealing with. So much of that same approach is valuable in other areas of life, and ought be remembered by many. It would save much pain - life would need less Bactine, and have more joy.

I post this metaphor because it is meaningful to me. It is, not surprisingly, quoted on a number of transgender sites. It concisely, yet poignantly, describes how those around us can have trouble seeing us after we change in some major way. For many transgender individuals, this is the inability of many loved ones to successfully 'regender' a transitioned family member.

"A beetle fell in love with a caterpillar and she returned his love, but she died and lay still, wrapped in a cocoon. The beetle grieved over his beloved's body. Suddenly the cocoon opened and a butterfly appeared. The beetle decided to kill the butterfly because it disturbed his meditations over the body. He rushed over to her and saw that the butterfly's eyes were familiar--they were the caterpillar's eyes. He had almost killed her, for after all, everything was new except the eyes. And the butterfly and beetle lived happily ever after.

"But you need to look things in the eye for that, and not everyone can do it, and sometimes a lifetime isn't long enough."

--Dmitri Shostakovich

Late last week, I noticed for the first time that some people at work are treating me differently now that I have transitioned. This was interesting to experience and kind of fun, too! Everyone continues to treat me in a professional, business-like manner which is as it should be.

There are a few people who would barely acknowledge my old male self who now are openly friendly. I notice this in everything from how they greet me to the way they may now add 'Best regards' to an email response. The first time I noticed this, I was really surprised, although I should not have been. I had read all about this type of thing happening.

Then there are a very few folks who, while they continue to treat me in a business-like way, are seemingly uncomfortable. One woman was clearly caught unawares when I showed up unexpectedly at her cubicle. She had that 'deer caught in the headlights' look about her!

In general, the people I have frequent contact with have been comfortable with me since my transition day.

Technically, although I have transitioned at work, I have not started the required one-year 'real life experience' needed to get approval for SRS. Friday, I will have a physical exam at the office of the very kind female physician I first saw last Thursday. If all goes well, as it always has before, she will write a prescription for estrogen then. Living full-time in the female chosen gender role and taking estrogen should mark the official start of the real life experience.

I am nearly through half of my third week as Danya at the office. There are no more flowers from caring coworkers, no more congratulations and no more encouraging words. What remains are the normal stresses of day-to-day life both in the office and out. There are certainly moments of shared happiness, too, and the stress is not overwhelming but much of my day is spent in business as usual mode. Overall, my mood is very good.

How I handle these more typical days, and the inevitable heavy stressors of life, will be seen as the measure of my success in the real life experience.

Hormones are all well and good but if I might quote the good Doctor Bowers the real test is when you go out in public in a cute minidress for the first time.

One year is not that long. Once your there it will seem like a blink... I think...

mrt (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:08 pm Hormones are all well and good but if I might quote the good Doctor Bowers the real test is when you go out in public in a cute minidress for the first time.

One year is not that long. Once your there it will seem like a blink... I think...

Hi MrT,

One year isn't long at all and besides, I don't know that I'll have the money for SRS in a year. Even if there is insurance coverage, many (maybe all?) surgeons require you pay up front first with cash then it's up to you to get your money back from the insurance company. OTOH, I have spoken with trans women who have had good results with surgeons in Thailand. Those charge a great deal less and there's the added bonus of a trip to the tropics. Only time will tell what I ultimately wind up doing.

Having seen Dr. Marci Bowers, I would say she could easily pull off looking good in a minidress. While I would certainly try a minidress in public (like in a dark bar), once maybe, I don't think I would create quite the stir she can. I most certainly look fine in many dresses, though, including a sleek black number I'll wear to a wedding reception later in the month.

I find that I am generally calm and happy much of the time now. Not the mental high happiness of much of my first week transitioning. That was wonderful and exciting but also emotionally draining.

In fact, I am feeling so calm and content I wonder what the fuss of transitioning was all about. . It seems I am able to handle much of my life, including stresses, in a more relaxed manner. I have some down times but I seem better able to cope with these.

It has been an interesting day. This afternoon I had my second visit with the gentle woman physician. Part of her practice is with the trans community. I had blood drawn for testing last Friday and the results were in for today's visit. My prolactin level was very slightly elevated and the doctor will do some investigating on possible causes, other than a benign pituitary tumor. My own quick research afterwards seemed to show that spironolactone taken for months can cause some elevation in prolactin but so can stress. I've been on spiro nearly 4 months now after 3 1/2on Androcur.

What I found disappointing was my total and free testosterone levels. Total T was checked in March (after 3 weeks on spiro) and came back slightly below the normal range, at about 210. Now total T is coming out as about 500, smack dab in the middle of 'normal'. Two years ago my total T was 800. It could be that the March result was still reflecting the influence of Androcur.

The doctor thinks that with continued use of spiro alone my T would go down further in the months ahead. At any rate, I did get an estrogen prescription and will be starting out at a low dose.

When I got home from work this evening, the pharmacy left me a message for me to call. They wanted to know if the 'new medicine' was really for me and did I know what it was. This doctor is a new one to prescribe for me and they wanted to be sure the prescription was actually for me and that I knew it's for estrogen. Yes, indeed, I told them!

I am leaving for the pharmacy now to pick it up. It will be interesting to see if my insurance covers it.

Tclosetgirl (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:55 am That first breast development, along with the pain/sensitivity is an awesome time - enjoy it as it is short lived!!!

I'm kind of between an AA and A cup, if I ever go the T-blocker route again I will go all out, B cup perhaps...

Another pleasure I hope you will enjoy is having some suckle on them.....that is a VERY pleasurable sensual feeling!!!!!

I wish you well with your brother too!

I desire to have a first breast development time. I hope it happens some day. I am very excited. B cup is beautiful too.

Danya (imported) wrote: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:01 am I'll always consider my work transition day as a second birthday, this time as being 'born' into a new gender and presenting as a woman, Me!, in all areas of my life. I'm really excited about this event and want to have a celebration of some type, probably on Sunday May 18. I've just got to come up with some good ideas for the party. I'd like to do something out of the ordinary. I've still got a little over a month to think about it and suggestions are welcome!

It seems like a whole new world is opening up for me with all kinds of possibilities. My life has become very full in the last few months and that's a really good thing. I'm meeting really terrific people, in person and virtually, on the Archive and I'm finding new friends in unexpected places elsewhere. Life is really good.

I'm going to use this thread to record my experiences with transitioning. There will be frustrations along the way and it helps if I write down both the good and the bad. I'm certain the good will far surpass the bad.

If I was working I would love to transition at work. You go girl sounds fun.

I love estrogen, you will too after the initial week or two

It's a wonderful feeling!!

Hi MrT,

Danya (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:14 am Having seen Dr. Marci Bowers, I would say she could easily pull off looking good in a minidress. While I would certainly try a minidress in public (like in a dark bar), once maybe, I don't think I would create quite the stir she can. I most certainly look fine in many dresses, though, including a sleek black number I'll wear to a wedding reception later in the month.

I find that I am generally calm and happy much of the time now. Not the mental high happiness of much of my first week transitioning. That was wonderful and exciting but also emotionally draining.

In fact, I am feeling so calm and content I wonder what the fuss of transitioning was all about. . It seems I am able to handle much of my life, including stresses, in a more relaxed manner. I have some down times but I seem better able to cope with these.

Dr Marci is quite the dish but don't sell yourself short. A lot of it is attitude I think. I'm no shrink but I think your probably pulling the plug on a mountain of internal stress by being who you are after years of dealing with this internal gender twistage... Assuming that IS a word? I think it helps also that you have some good support for your transition. As to money Dr Bowers said that there is always a way but it might have to get a bit creative. One good thing about being poor is you really DO have to get creative and some of that can be interesting and even (dare I say it) fun? Food wise for example. We are stretching out dollars and really enjoying some of the results. And we have a hungry Dog for the failures...

Danya (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:14 am What I found disappointing was my total and free testosterone levels. Total T was checked in March (after 3 weeks on spiro) and came back slightly below the normal range, at about 210. Now total T is coming out as about 500, smack dab in the middle of 'normal'. Two years ago my total T was 800. It could be that the March result was still reflecting the influence of Androcur.

The doctor thinks that with continued use of spiro alone my T would go down further in the months ahead. At any rate, I did get an estrogen prescription and will be starting out at a low dose.

When I got home from work this evening, the pharmacy left me a message for me to call. They wanted to know if the 'new medicine' was really for me and did I know what it was. This doctor is a new one to prescribe for me and they wanted to be sure the prescription was actually for me and that I knew it's for estrogen. Yes, indeed, I told them!

I am leaving for the pharmacy now to pick it up. It will be interesting to see if my insurance covers it.

From everything I've read your Estrogen (YEA!) will dominate Testosterone anyway.

Its a bit confusing why your Testosterone is that high. Are you taking your Spiro at the same time each day? Your not blowing off doses are you??? Has the doctor kept the Spiro at a low level for some reason?

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:12 am From everything I've read your Estrogen (YEA!) will dominate Testosterone anyway.

Its a bit confusing why your Testosterone is that high. Are you taking your Spiro at the same time each day? Your not blowing off doses are you??? Has the doctor kept the Spiro at a low level for some reason?

Yes, MrT, the estrogen will dominate testosterone if you take enough of it. The idea is to keep the T low so you can keep the E as low as possible to get the desired effects while minimizing the potential for bad reactions.

I'm pretty good about taking the spiro regularly. I'm on 100 mg twice a day. I rarely miss a pill. The 200 mg/day I am on is considered pretty standard for TS treatment. Some online sources say you can go higher for better results, others say that won't make much difference.

Over the last few months I have experienced some breast development from the spiro, so it is having an effect. As I have time, I am investigating possibilities for why my T isn't lower on spironolactone. I am supposed to have blood work in two months to see how things are going with the estrogen treatment.

The estrogen patch I am using is the Vivelle-dot, 0.05 mg. The doctor said we can eventually work up to using a dose four times higher.

The brand I am taking is the Vivelle-dot. It's a tiny thing but I am having trouble finding the right spot to place it on my skin. The directions say to apply it to clean, hairless skin on the abdomen below the waist. My problem is finding a hairless spot. It's not that I'm excessively hairy but I'm not hair-free either. I keep this region shaved but, alas, hair grows back. The patch is left in place for about 3 days before the next one is applied to a different area. I need to go back to using an epilator on this area to keep it hair-free for extended periods.

My insurance did pay for this. The fact that my doctor listed the reason for the prescription as something like 'hormone disturbance' and not something related to transsexualism may have helped.

Hi Danya,

It has to be exciting to be on the verge of starting female hormones, but it sounds like your Spiro dosage will need to be increased to get your "T" levels down to somewhere in the range of a genetic female, which is between 20-70, according to my doctor. My current level is 21 according to my last blood test.

You're going to just love the changes the estrogen will bring about, both physically and mentally.

I sincerely hope that the results from your current test come back normal.

I'm also surprised your T levels are that high on a normal dose of Spiro, and also your levels were that high only two years ago. A level of 800 is quite high for someone your age. Have you considered taking the 200 mg dose all at once each day? Splitting the dose is not always necessary or desirable. The only time when it really is desirable is when the half-life of a medication is so short that it would make a difference in the effects you get from the medication. I know plenty of TSs who take their Spiro all at once, and it still works fine for them.

It could also be that you are developing a tolerance to Spiro. This can theoretically happen with any medication.

The E will probably help lower your T levels. But are you sure you want to go with the patch? I hated those, even Vivelle-dot. I couldn't get them to stay on at all.

EricaAnn (imported) wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:43 am Hi Danya,

It has to be exciting to be on the verge of starting female hormones, but it sounds like your Spiro dosage will need to be increased to get your "T" levels down to somewhere in the range of a genetic female, which is between 20-70, according to my doctor. My current level is 21 according to my last blood test.

You're going to just love the changes the estrogen will bring about, both physically and mentally.

I sincerely hope that the results from your current test come back normal.

Hi Erica Ann,

Some clinics and doctors do use higher levels of spiro. I suggested this to my doctor but she wants to wait and see what the blood work will look like in two months. She also believes the lab result for T may be an error. If necessary, I will push for additional action on the next visit in two months, or sooner.

BTW, you are really gorgeous in your new picture!

Hugs,

Danya

plix (imported) wrote: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:44 am I'm also surprised your T levels are that high on a normal dose of Spiro, and also your levels were that high only two years ago. A level of 800 is quite high for someone your age. Have you considered taking the 200 mg dose all at once each day? Splitting the dose is not always necessary or desirable. The only time when it really is desirable is when the half-life of a medication is so short that it would make a difference in the effects you get from the medication. I know plenty of TSs who take their Spiro all at once, and it still works fine for them.

It could also be that you are developing a tolerance to Spiro. This can theoretically happen with any medication.

The E will probably help lower your T levels. But are you sure you want to go with the patch? I hated those, even Vivelle-dot. I couldn't get them to stay on at all.

Hi Plix,

I checked the spiro prescription bottle and it does not say to take it twice a day as I have been doing. I'm going to start taking all 200 mg once a day. I'll check with my doctor on whether morning or evening is better. That could make a big difference! Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, I could be developing a tolerance to spiro and I will keep that possibility in mind.

I'm not thrilled about the Vivelle-dot patch but so far it's stayed in place for 48 hours. The only other option that would likely be considered for me would be the same medication in a gel. For those over 40, the patch is strongly recommended to reduce the possibility of blood clots.

-Danya

I looked into female HRT (my wife / menopause) and I think the V-Dot is a very good system. Its not a weird horse urine synthetic and taking your Estrogen this way is healthier then pills. The Gel would be ok but you need to do that every day. I think your doctor has the right idea to ramp up your dose in steps. A sudden blast can't be as good as a gradual increase.

The test really does sound like it was an error so I would just relax and enjoy this next step. And congrats!

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:26 am I looked into female HRT (my wife / menopause) and I think the V-Dot is a very good system. Its not a weird horse urine synthetic and taking your Estrogen this way is healthier then pills. The Gel would be ok but you need to do that every day. I think your doctor has the right idea to ramp up your dose in steps. A sudden blast can't be as good as a gradual increase.

The test really does sound like it was an error so I would just relax and enjoy this next step. And congrats!

Yup, I didn't want none of that horse urine stuff, MrT! BTW, I mentioned to the doctor before she ever brought it up that I wanted to start gradually.

So far the patch has stayed in place for 3 days with no problem. It seems like it's practically cemented in place! None the less, I think I'd still prefer the gel. I wasted the first patch because I didn't 'operate' the thing the right way. I'll probably be OK with the next one, which I'll apply tomorrow morning at 3 1/2 days after the first.

I agree with you and I am very relaxed. I have no idea when to expect a noticeable emotional effect from the estrogen or whether this low dose will be sufficient to produce that. Time will tell but I am patient.

I haven't needed to use a women's rest room (or ladies room) since I transitioned at work. There's always been a single use one close by.

In a prior episode of this thread , I described a recent trip to Penney's where I had no problem at all going into the women's fitting room to try on clothing. Or I may have mentioned this in an email. Either way, it happened!

Today, I was out of the office and needed to use the women's room. Now, I know to most of you this doesn't sound like a big deal at all and, in truth, it wasn't a big deal to me either. I just walked in, chose a stall, closed the door, sat down and did my thing. You know, I had my chance to pee! I do, after all, have the 'bathroom letter' from my therapist stating that I should be granted all the rights of a woman. So I was exercising one of those rights today.

For those of you who don't know, I'll let you in on a little secret. The women's rest rooms tend to be nicer than the men's. Of course, I'm basing this conclusion on very limited experience. The rest room I used today had not one but two plush, cushioned arm chairs with a nice table and lamp between them. In a prior life, I'd been in the men's room in the same building and it wasn't nearly as nice. No wonder it takes women so long to use the rest room. They make the places so inviting they don't want to leave!

If I may quote Capt Kirk.

To boldy "go" where no man has "gone" before....

Some time back, I mentioned a radio producer who wants to do a documentary of my transition. What she means is tracking my thoughts and feelings over the next year or more as I continue on my journey. I have completed one transition from male to a clear announcement and presentation of myself as female in every aspect of my life. Although the first few days of my transition at work felt very wonderful and magical, in truth that was just the beginning of an ongoing journey of discovering and becoming who I really am. There was no hocus-pocus like instantaneous change from my male persona into my true female self. The magic of the first days is no longer there. That has been replaced with the reality of dealing with every day life. What has changed is that I am now happy for the first time in my life. I can look forward to continued happiness and adventure as my journey proceeds. It is this adventure that the producer wants to document. All true adventures have risks and very real dangers. I expect my happiness to continue but there will be some rough times ahead mixed in with times of exhilaration.

This producer has wanted to meet with me for over a month. Tonight she got her chance because I had accepted her second invitation to attend, as her guest, an empowerment seminar type event associated with a well-known organization. We first met for dinner. She had also invited a young man along who looked to be about 23. I was the last to arrive and felt fairly relaxed despite a stressful work week. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I am much more gregarious and comfortable around all kinds of people than I ever was as a man. We had a very enjoyable conversation.

During most of the seminar activities, this young man and I were together in the two-person teams to discuss our life issues. It turned out we had an amazing amount in common. Our backgrounds are very different and on the surface one might not expect us to be very similar at all.

In her first invitation, the producer said it sounded like I was already leading the kind of life this group promotes. After tonight's seminar, I agreed with her. They charge a fairly hefty fee to for an extended weekend forum that they say will transform your life. I am giving a second glance at their syllabus as I write this. I have no disagreement with the intent of their program and I know people who have benefited from their work. I truly believe I'm already in the process of leading the type of life they advocate and do not need their assistance. It is not that I feel I have arrived at my destination but that I do not see road blocks in my thinking, attitudes or behavior that will prevent my living a very full, empowered life. In fact, that is already the kind of life I have. This was not always true but it most certainly is now.

The facilitator would not accept me at my word on this. He is gay and told me he can relate, to an extent, to what I must be experiencing transitioning. Surely I must have major work now to resolve issues from my past, he said. I told him I either worked through those or knew what to do to resolve the rest. He then said he was not going to argue with me, to which I told him I was simply offering a response.

With determination, he went on to question my single relationship status and insisted that I must want that to change. The truth is, I am happy being single and I would be happy in the right relationship. Either way, I am indeed happy. He clearly thinks everyone just absolutely has to be in a relationship, or be actively seeking one, to be living life fully. He didn't get my viewpoint and told me I was 'filtering'.

Of course, as I have written here, I have some fantasies of being made love to by a handsome man. Conceivably, that could happen this weekend (more about that in a day or two). I have no doubt that a good relationship would be a wonderful thing. It is not a requirement, though, for me to have a fulfilling life. The facilitator did not seem to get me here, either.

Our entire conversation was much shorter than my description. I could only tolerate so much. I am certain he concluded I am a lost cause

At the end of the evening, I met the producer and the young man in the parking lot. The young man said he had no idea what to expect when he had been told he would be meeting a trans woman. He said he was very comfortable with me and liked my openness. He also said he could tell I was happy and it seemed there was an aura about me when I arrived, late, at the restaurant. I thought the 'aura' part was laying it on a bit thick, especially since I have had a stressful week with long work hours. I certainly did not feel like I had an aura! Then the producer agreed with him! People at work have said 'you are glowing'. All I know is, I am happy and people do notice. Apparently, this can come through even when I am tired and a bit frazzled. It is something very new in my life.

The producer and I will meet another time to discuss the possibility of a documentary. I let her know I am busy and could not devote the time necessary for her original idea of making a regular taped record of my thoughts and feelings. She knows I write about my life on a web site and I told her it was important that I have time to keep that up. She then proposed that she meet with me now and then to do interviews which she would later edit into a cohesive story. We'll discuss this possibility in more depth when we next meet.

Hi Danya,

I just read your latest post and have a couple of thoughts to offer. Take them for what its worth.

There are two different view points on doing this documentary. On one hand you may feel it will be of service to the transgender community by getting out there with your story and it may be of help in educating others about people like us. The other side of the coin is that there is always money involved and these people stand to make a good buck off of this venture. You must also consider that from this point on in time you will be known to everyone as a transsexual, not as a women.

I personal prefer to be known as a women and it's my feelings that we should try to blend into society as women. Being known as a transsexual has a very definite sigma about it and could cause you a great deal of pain, now and into the future as you will be forced to carry this burden with you.

Just a few things to consider.

Erica Ann is saying exactly what is going on in my head as I read your post. Don't feel you need to be the poster woman for TS people. There are lots of good role models who are public. It would be nice if this wasn't so unusual that people think it needs to be made into a program. If you do want to do it get residuals!

Can you Imagine them wanting to talk about producing a show on broken arms the healing? Or the true story of my Rectal Surgery. No, what that was funny....

As to the single status. I think it "shallow" that this guy trys to define you by if you are in a relationship or not. Isin't "single" good enough? I thought that was a common issue for 1950s women who had to be married to be anyone. Sheesh!

EricaAnn (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:43 pm Hi Danya,

I just read your latest post and have a couple of thoughts to offer. Take them for what its worth.

There are two different view points on doing this documentary...

On one hand you may feel it will be of service to the transgender community by getting out there with your story and it may be of help in educating others about people like us. The other side of the coin is that there is always money involved and these people stand to make a good buck off of this venture. You must also consider that from this point on in time you will be known to everyone as a transsexual, not as a women.

I personal prefer to be known as a women and it's my feelings that we should try to blend into society as women. Being known as a transsexual has a very definite sigma about it and could cause you a great deal of pain, now and into the future as you will be forced to carry this burden with you.

Just a few things to consider.

Hi Erica Ann,

I really appreciate your input and I agree with you. I will not participate in the documentary.

It amazed me yesterday that one of my best male friends from work, who is generally a very sensitive and caring guy, still doesn't seem to have much of a clue about what's involved in being a transgendered/transsexual person. This is despite the mandatory TG lives training he attended at the office right before my transition. He referred to 'women who are men', meaning people like me. I calmly gave him a short explanation of what my situation really is. That is, I am a woman, no matter what my outward physical characteristics may be.

Even under the best circumstances, well meaning people who you would think would know better just do not get our situation. There is no sense in compounding the problem with a publicly broadcast documentary. By not doing that, at least new people I meet are much less likely to know anything about my past. Whatever I ultimately decide on how open to be about it, the documentary will not be out there to prejudice the matter.

It's always good to get the advice of caring people who have either been down my path or are knowledgeable enough to point out legitimate concerns.

-Danya