EA Forums

vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:15 am Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

vesal_mas (imported) wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:15 am Dear all,

I think BridgetteFeels asked for what the french speaking world understands with 'Bistournage'.

This castration form results from the torsion of the testicular cords within the scrotum. So this scrotum is not opened !

What is bistournage ?

The scrotum can be regarded as just a sac containing the two testicles hanging on a cord. Simple thinking may lead to a very simple way of castration, especially in those patients with long scrotal necks: Just turn the testicle round its own axle and a torsion of the cord is the result. This torsion obliterates the blood vessels and the testicle dies of hypoxia.

This is/was a castration method in older days. The big advantage was there was no cutting, no wound, so no risk of infection. Disadvantage was the method is not reliable. Why ?

Why is the method not reliable ?

Nature is not stupid. During development human gonads (these gonads develop in ovaries or testicles depending on the chosen sex, XX or XY) are located in the belly. They are conected with a membrane that pulls them down.

Female ovaries will be connected to the this membrane, 'ligamentum rotundum' which holds the ovaries in the neighbourhood of the womb .

Male testicles will locate themselves in the scrotum, pulled downwards by their connected membrane or 'gubernaculum'. (I believe I ones read that at a certain stade this membrane develops muscle tissue to pull the testicles downwards. Failure can lead to cryptorchidism). After the testicular descent it remains as a small but important fibrous connection between the scrotum and the testicle.

This gubernaculum prevents turning of the testicle in its own sac because it is connected to.

However

Active turning and twisting of the testicles can lead to the testicular death and so castration in certain animals. As stated, this method has been described. I have an old french book (1941) in which the method is described along with other approaches: tearing out the testicles with the teeth, torsion until rupture (manual version of the Henderson, I think), elastration, Burdizzo.

The book rejects elastration because of the pain and risk of infection. The book prefers the bistournage (if in good hands because it does not seam to be an easy procedure) and burdizzo method. Open procedures are done in bigger animals.

Human analogue

A similar condition of testicular torsion occur sometimes spontaneously in humans. Especially postpuberal boys and young men can have this problem.

Due to an incomplete or loose gubernaculum the testicle can sometimes turn upon its own. This results in what docs call: acute scrotum: The testicle, not having enough blood and oxygen cries for it: An unusual great pain, without trauma before starts in the groin, irradiates towards the kidney region.

Some boys are afraid to tell this because it usually happens after masturbation (due to contraction of the dartos during this), and actually try to harden this pain. It seems a hot bath can ease the pain. A testicle that is ischaemic for a few hours is most probably lost. It appears that due to immunologic changes it even can deteriorated the fertility of the other (healthy) testicle.

One could find more and even with pictures at google (images). Just look for 'acute scrotum'.

And my attempts:

I often tried to turn my testicles. It does not work. Fortunately ?

However, after twisting the testicle twice, traction on the testicle gives a profound feeling ...

Hoping to have helped some what,

Take care !

bobbie (imported) wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:29 pm If you go to the Henderson web site you do not see any reference of using the tool on young animals on the sack. Where did you get your information?

What is your plan if I am so bold to ask if the twisting fails? Or if it does not tare where you plan it to? The tare is above the twisting? Try to twist your sack around 3 times. Can you do it? Do you really think you can twist it 20 times? The sack is jut too thick and short to twist. It may not just be enough to seal the end. If it reopens what do you do then. Have cords blood vessels, artery's and sac bleeding. Fast trip to the ER if lucky. The cords are long and thin. They can twist and break.

If the tool is used just on the cords like it is to be used you have the follow problems. Then there is the slit you had to make to get the ball out of the sack. How do you plan to control the bleeding? There is the infection factor to deal with. Gosh did I leave any other possible problems with this type of castration. OH yea the pain factor! That gotta hurt big time.

This castration is good fantasy in story books. But not good in real life.

Dana Lane (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:41 pm I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

Dana Lane (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:41 pm I searched the forums and couldn't find any posts and also didn't think this fit in chemical or surgical castration so I posted here. Feel free to move it if it is in the wrong area.

What are your thoughts about taking the individual testicles and rotating them in say a clockwise (or counter clockwise) direction which should twist the cord and blood vessels into a state that is closed. Would this be the same thing as banding except not destroying the sac as well?

I remember my brother had to go to the doctor once because one of his testicles got twisted and he said it got swollen as big as a grapefruit (may have been exaggerating).

Thoughts?

saywhat (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:43 pm I have tried this many times. I have not found a way to keep them twisted long enough to cause damage. You would have to have them twisted for over 4 hours at least. 24 hours is the point of no return where surgeons must remove them.