Socialization ?

[Milkman (imported)]

One of my thoughts about castration is that it would make one more " socially self-sufficient" , what I mean to say is that you would not need other people as much and would be more content in solitary activities. This comes from my correspondence with several eunuchs who are on low does of T to maintain their masculine appearance but have little or no sex drive to worry about. I realize that a man on a full dose of T would be the same with little or no change from his former self, but I have no evidence except these two eunuchs for low dose or non HRT eunuchs. Has anyone one else had this change in social interaction and finds themselves more solitary?

[tugon (imported)]

Thinking way back I would have to say the need to socialize has not changed for me. What has changed is the way and the motivation of why I socialized. Pre castration I would socialize at places where I would have a chance at a sexual conquest. Post castration I look to be around friends that satisfy me emotionally and intellectually. I had a greater need to be around people for emotional needs post castration. I craved affection more than before.

I think the amount of time I socialize is the same but I do spend more time at home because I am not out prowling the streets.

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

Good question Milkman. But I disagree with your theory, and echo Tugon's opinion on this matter.

When I was taking Depo Provera, I was AMAZED at the change in my emotions and feelings, but I DEFINITELY wanted and needed MORE human contact than before. I hated sleeping alone more than ever before, and that was NOT for any sexual reason, I just wanted to sleep next to someone, to talk to someone. I was a LOT more aware of my feelings, a lot more concerned about other people. Overall, I would say that my chemical castration experience was completely good, I enjoyed it completely, but I would be lying if I did not point out that I felt lonely sometimes.

Looking back on that time, I am very happy that I was fortunate enough to not have become the victim of some con-man or con-woman. At that time, I am pretty sure that I would have taken almost anyone into my trust and confidence so that I could have had some company.

So, while I agree that my chemical castration completely freed my mind of sexual desires, it also showed me just how lonely I really was.

[malenomore (imported)]

I'm in agreement with DeaconBlues, my situation is exactly as stated in his post here. After going on chemical castration I became so open and begain to talk with a couple of long time friends that I thought I could trust, I became alienated from them and they thought I had lost my mind.It became clear to me then at that time that all along they were only wanting to play the games,but, weren't actually wanting to live the reality of a real relationship. For now I have to be content to be alone and hope to find someone in the future that will understand me and my feelings now.

[bobbie (imported)]

I think in general people are a social being. They seem to want to be around others. Being around others does not have to mean in a sexual manner. Hormones will have an effect on weather the contact may be more driven in a sexual manner.

Low dose of T for HRT may not provide much to maintain your physical appearance that you desire. Low dose of hormones for one person can be a large dose for another person. It all depends on how the body reacts tot the drug.

The muscle mass and strength are very dependent on testosterone. Weight training alone will not over come what the hormone will take away from the muscle. Case in point. Female muscle builder can work out very hard and have some development. But once on testosterone the muscles change greatly. If the testosterone is removed she will go back to what she was. The same goes for a guy and his muscle mass with the change in testosterone.

In my other life I had no real desire to be social. No desire to be with people. No desire to have friends. I was more then happy to just be alone with myself all the time. When I became home office I was very happy. I had even less contact with people. About 5 months being on androcur I started to have a desire to want to have a friend. The desire was not great but was something I never experienced. Took another half year before the desire increased to the point where I even cared about the welfare about him. Took another 3 months before I even meet him. Second friendship was developing during the same time period. For me the lack of T allowed me to make friends and to become somewhat a social person. For me the lack of testosterone has made it possible for me to make a few friends. I know it does not make sense to almost everyone. The 5 plus years with out T have been some of the best years of my life.

Testosterone effects everyone very differently. You can not base what you will experience based on what you here from just a few people. If you talk to 10 guys you can get 20 different answers. The mental effects seem to be the most unpredictable effects. Chemical castration is by far the only real way to see just how it will effect you. You and you alone can be the judge on how the eunuch life will be for you.

[JesusA]

This is a very important question on which we have far too little data. What's been posted so far is very good, and I'd like to encourage as many others as possible to post their individual, first-hand experiences.

What has happened to your sociability with a drop in testosterone level?

So far, nearly everything that we know comes from animal analogues. Human beings are very different from puppydogs and pussycats, but they are most of our existing data. How are humans similar and different in their responses to lowered testosterone?

Without going to the existing literature, which is quite extensive on non-human animals, I'll just speak to my personal experiences here with my own pets. Over the past 60+ years, in addition to the large animals that I grew up with on the farm, I've had many dogs and cats, some castrated, and some not. Those who had been castrated were far more seeking of contact, both with other animals and with humans. They seemed to desire far more touch. It's not only that aggressiveness is lost with the testicles (the major reason for castrating domestic animals), but there is also gained a seeming desire for companionship with others; even others of a different species. For example, I've never had one of my tomcats jump onto my lap and ask to be petted, but ALL of my castrated cats have.

A visit to one of the MoMs that Bobbie has organized always seems like involvement in a hugging festival - filled with both physical and verbal touching. Even at the conference from which I've just returned, filled with friends from graduate school days and some of my former students, there was far less touching than I find at a MoM with people I've only just met.

[Danya (imported)]

My testosterone is below the normal range but not nearly in the castration range. My total testosterone level was checked in early March and came back at something like 215 ng/dL. I found this really disappointing and never reported it on the Archive. It may have been lower when I was taking Androcur instead of the Spironolactone I'm now prescribed. I've seen the bottom of the normal total testosterone range quoted as anywhere between the mid to upper 200 ng/dL range on different web sites. Several years ago my total testosterone tested at about 800 ng/dL. [I will point out that my physical libido remains nearly non-existent, unlike my mental libido. This holds true even if I try to orgasm. That's not an impossibility but hardly worth the effort. I don't know when the last time was that I had a spontaneous erection.] I am not yet taking estrogen of any type.

So I'm not sure my answer to your question is in any way indicative of what a eunuch experiences. In male (nearly male, low T?) mode, as Todd, I have been much more emotional but not more sociable at all in my actions, at least. I still feel very bound at work to put on the act of being male. I have wanted more hugging but that desire never got past my natural tendency to be something of a loner. Todd has also remained a bit uncomfortable with hugging, with the exception of an intimate partner. Todd has sought out more verbal connectedness, but not nearly to the extent of Danya.

Over the last 11 years, since a year or so after my divorce, I have rarely felt lonely. After I separated from my wife, I was given the wise advice to learn to be happy by myself. I may have learned the lesson too well. This, of course, doesn't preclude also being happy in a good relationship by any means. My point is, I haven't felt lonely on low testosterone.

As my true feminine self, as Danya, I very much want, seek out and get more social interaction of all kinds on the verbal level. I sometimes feel almost desperate for a hug and would certainly like more. I still don't feel lonely, though.

If any of this is useful, terrific, if not (because my T isn't low enough to qualify me ), that's fine, too. I enjoyed writing this.

-Danya

[Danya (imported)]

Someday I may be able to give a succinct answer to questions like "Do dogs sweat?" (from a Charlie Brown cartoon). An answer more like Yes or No, versus paragraphs! Maybe

[kennath7 (imported)]

danya

below normal level t or none you're a valuable person your answer is your experience

thanks for your input

[kennath7 (imported)]

Before castration I really did not like being around people I like being by my self

I loved going to a public places and just sit and observe others it's so interesting

I was always hated communicating with others typing, writing or talking

After castration I still love going to a public places and just sit and observe others

Now I find it more fulfilling interacting with others I never really had any problems

Giving a friend a hug male or female and now I rather enjoy communicating with others

[homptydumpty (imported)]

I have always craved attention. Post op i feel more comfortable in social settings. Probably because now my body alines more so with my mind than before.

The need for interaction with others has remained. However surfacing is the want to relate to others in a meaningful way. I no longer crave sexual attention, wanting instead to share love and affection.

[homptydumpty (imported)]

I have always craved attention. Post op i feel more comfortable in social settings. Probably because now my body alines more so with my mind than before.

The need for interaction with others has remained. However surfacing is the want to relate to others in a meaningful way. I no longer crave sexual attention, wanting instead to share love and affection.

As i was writing this i was waiting for my boyfriend to come over. When he got here he was fine just hanging out, however i could not keep my hands off of him. I think what i wrote above was untrue. i still want sexual attention....

[Milkman (imported)]

Thank you all for the very thoughtful, reasoned answers. It has really helped me separate fantasy , from reality

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

Well THANKYOU for asking Milkman! I really enjoy sharing my castration experience. It is nice to meet someone who wants to hear or read what I have to offer. Seriously, I enjoyed sharing it.

[thefraj (imported)]

I just wanted to agree with Jesus' remarks (above) and colour them with my own human experience. I know now that I NEED to socialize. For my own mental health. I think people are designed to need other people. Men are designed to withstand much more solitary hunterer-gatherer situations. But I reckon non-males are designed to desire the company of others more.

Females have a tendancy to be better communicators. Will often develop verbals skills at a young age compared with boys, and naturally be more articulate and better at expressing themselves than a boy of the equivalent age.

And I firmly believe this is because non-males experience stronger range of more powerful emotions, that NEED expressing. Since males are less aware of them, they naturally become less important and thus the powers of expression are less explored growing up.

For instance, I find EMPATHY to have grown a lot since castration. A key emotion in caregiving to children and vulnerable people. Desire to be around people has grown. I need that contact. These are all qualities that I believe are intended for non-males throughout the animal kingdom for this purpose. The great homemakers, communicators and child-minders.

I think I've changed an aweful lot in these last few years. Particularly this last one. But then, a lot of factors could contribute besides testosterone. It's a tough one, but I definitely recognize I need regular company.

As for sex, I find it's just not an important part of the relationship. I enjoy the close contact a great deal. Like last weekend we threw a party, I got shit-faced and was lucky enough to spent some quality time snuggling with a girl on a bed. Then, later on a guy.lol It's not about sex. But the close contact is lovely.