Taking the Plunge.....Again

[plix (imported)]

After nearly three years on TRT, I have decided to quit. This is something I have been considering for some time, and I have numerous reasons behind it. One of them is I realized that I have been surgically castrated for five years, but I have never lived the life of a eunuch. For pretty much the entire duration I have been on hormones. I think it's about time I try out being a eunuch. Over the years people have said that castration was not right for me. How do they know that? How do I know that? The only thing that is certain is I will never know if I don't give it a shot.

I stopped using Androgel on September 13, 2010. My goal is to go one year with no sex hormones of either kind. So on September 13, 2011, it will be time to evaluate my goal. The first step will be to see if I actually accomplished the goal, and if I did, I will need to determine how I feel about it.

According to the Androgel prescribing information, upon discontinuation of Androgel, T levels remain within the normal range for 48 hours and return to pre-treatment levels on the fifth day after the last application. If that is correct, my levels should already be below normal and should return to eunuch range tomorrow.

Items of Concern:

1. Weight Gain: Obviously I will no longer be able to eat whatever I want. Even if I did put the effort into eating right and getting plenty of exercise, I will probably still gain some weight.

2. Diabetes: I believe there is enough evidence to suggest that T plays a role in protecting against diabetes. Does that mean lack of T causes diabetes? Not necessarily, as lack of protection does not mean the event protected against will absolutely occur. But the medication I take for anxiety is suspected to possibly contribute to diabetes, and that may not be a good combination with the lack of T. I will want to monitor my glucose levels.

3. Osteoporosis: This is not a big worry for me (and believe me, that's a good thing - not may things out there are not big worries for me), but I suppose it is something I should be concerned about. Being a big believer in keeping things natural, I will try to get my calcium from foods. That should not be hard to do. A baseline bone density scan would be nice, but I have been down this road before - insurance will probably not cover one for an individual who is not a post-menopausal woman.

4. Looking Younger: This reason alone is almost enough to keep me on T. The older among us would love to look younger, but when you are young, you tend to want to look your age. I do not expect to look as young as I did when on E, but I will probably look younger than I do now. I will just have to try to accept that even if I don't now, someday I will probably appreciate it.

What I am Hopeful For:

1. Decreased Libido: This is one of the reasons I was brought to the table (excuse the pun) five years ago. For the first couple of years on TRT, I complained relentlessly about libido not coming back. But now it is, and I have my reasons for wanting it gone again. The interesting thing is back then I did not remember what it was like to have a libido. Now I don't remember what it was like not to have one.

2. Reversal of MPB: I have an area of significantly thinning hair at the vertex. However, it is not completely bald. Is it too late for the hair to thicken up? We'll find out. At worst, I don't anticipate further hair loss. And believe me, MPB is not a reason I am going off T, though stopping it will certainly be a welcome bonus.

3. Decreased Shaving: I absolutely hate to shave. Obviously the facial hair is not going to disappear, but it would be nice to not shave as often.

4. Reduced Body Hair: Over the last few years I have become, to put it nicely, quite hairy. Chest, abdomen, back, shoulders, arms, neck - it's everywhere. With that much hair I probably cannot expect total elimination, but a reduction would be appreciated.

5. Happiness or at least Acceptance: I hope to at least come to accept my status as a eunuch. Becoming happy with it would be even better.

Don't worry. It has been well established that I am not a woman, and I have no plans to go on E. This is merely a quest to accept what I have done to myself and possibly learn to enjoy it.

[tugon (imported)]

I have to say this is the second time you have surprised me. The first time should not have been a surprise but this time, surprise! As a no T eunuch and loving it I am not sure if it is right for you. I worry about depression for you.

I think we will talk before I say much more. You can imagine some of what I am thinking and what I wished for you in life. I hope stopping T is not an easy way out from what might truly make you happy. Reducing needs reduces the risks trying to get the needs satisfied. I am running off at the fingers so I will stop. Talk to you tomorrow.

[bobbie (imported)]

I think I know you some. You have gone through many experiments playing around with several hormones over the years. You know the effects and side effects from your post. You have also meet members from the site in person. Think about how many of us are not taking any hormones? Now think about how many take some level of testosterone. Taking some level was most of the people you know. They all take the hormones because of the side effects. The effects that was effecting their life's enough to want to change it again.

Taking your change to the eunuch level will just not work for you. You have been their before. You did not like the effects. You like most need to have some hormones in your life. Go on a low level of testosterone. I do not know but would think in the 100-200mg level may work well.

Making radical changes is just hard on the body. Remember some of the body changes may not happen to a great degree. If you are very hairy with T then you will still have good amount of hair withouy T. You mentioned some of the health benefits. But there are some health down falls. I have meet many eunuch's over the years. Very good number of them had some degree of osteoporosis. Yes the wreaking if the bone that is very common with older women. At your age you have a life chance of getting it. You would need to drink about 3 1/2 8 oz glasses of milk a day to get around 1000mg calcium a day. (Note I got osteoporosis just after 2+ years on androcur. Yes I was taking more then 1000mg a day and still got it. Was on prescription to help reverse the bone loss.)

[Milkman (imported)]

Have you read the literature on HGH, and it's benefits in low testosterone men? I know one eunuch who has done very well without T by using it

[graylayer02 (imported)]

Dude, I know you. You were a wreck when totally without T. With me I'm happiest with a low dose (like a half dose a day instead of a full one). Maybe a gradual reduction to zero dosing would work, but I'm worried you'll crash badly.

[twaddler (imported)]

Weight gain may not be a certainty. For me, I only can gain weight when I take an estrogen. Without hormone replacement I can eat to any excess and not gain weight; with it I my base weight seems to jump up 20lbs.

[plix (imported)]

Have you read the literature on HGH, and it's benefits in low testosterone men? I know one eunuch who has done very well without T by using it

I have heard about HGH, but I imagine the chances of find

ing a doctor who is willing to prescribe it are slim.

Weight gain may not be a certainty. For me, I only can gain weight when I take an estrogen. Without hormone replacement I can eat to any excess and not gain w

eight; with it I my base weight seems to jump up 20lbs.

During my previous tries to go without T, I went from 120 to 160. Forty pounds may seem like a lot, but when you consider I was at 120 before that, it doesn't seem so bad. You could tell I had put on a little weight, but I still did not look bad. I am now back to 145. I have not altered my eating habits significantly since my castration, other than I eat more than I did when living in the dorms in college.

[plix (imported)]

I'll admit I have changed my mind a few too many times since my surgery, but this last stretch was about three years - for me that is incredible. Also, I do want to point out a couple of significant differences between the past and now.

1. I was on E.

2. I was trying to be someone I am not (a woman).

I tend to view my current plan as different from anything I have done before because of those reasons. In some ways, my new experiences could be worse, as E was likely shielding me from many of the effects of castration. But since this time around I will not try to be that person I know I am not, I remain hopeful that the details will go well this time.

I really do not remember what it is like to be without T, and I will admit I am scared. Will I be able to handle life without hormones? I hope so, but if not, I always have the option of resuming T therapy. In any case, m

y goal is to go one year with no

hormones before making any decisions. My previous record is about three months, and while that starts to give an idea of what life as a eunuch is like, I don't consider it long enough to get a solid understanding.

As of right now, I am experiencing minimal effects. It has been six days since my last T application, and these things take time. So far I have noticed the near disappearance of spontaneous erections and some decrease in nocturnal erections (but it is still respectably hard in the morning). Erections are still easy to stimulate, and libido is still alive and well. I will be watching for total loss of morning wood and tenderness of nipples. Once those happen, I will consider the effects truly underway. I do not seem to get hot flashes or susceptibility to changes in energy, so I am not terribly concerned about those. I have had some trouble sleeping these last few nights, but that could be due to just about anything.

I am trying to recall my original motivations for going back on T. I know I discovered I am not a woman, but was there anything else? I should have started this blog years ago

I do appreciate the concern. It is nice to know that there are people here for me in case things do turn out poorly

[binky69 (imported)]

I certainly wish you all the best and hope that things go well for you without HRT. I, too, did the same thing and managed to go without any T for 8 months. Like anything, there are pros and cons. Give yourself about 3-4 weeks and the inevitable hot flashes will appear. At least you're doing this over the fall/winter so maybe it won't be so bad. I did it over the summer and heat, humidity, and hot flashes do not add up to a good experience. Having a hot flash outside in 95 deg heat was awful.

As for the weight gain, that's enough of an issue, but more importantly for me was not the how much, but the where. You can expect changes in your body shape with the fat moving down to your butt and hips. Over time you'll find your pants fitting differently (or not fitting at all) and for me that was a big problem. And although I thought the idea of having no libido would be something desirable, once it happened it really felt strange.

Although I still shaved almost every day, my beard certainly became much softer and easier to shave. I didn't notice too much of a change in body hair (that probably takes much longer) but it did seem to lighten a bit and become softer as well. No T also seemed to wreck havoc on my sleep patterns. I started waking up in the middle of the night unable to fall asleep again. For me, however, the worst part was the joint pain. Every morning I woke up feeling as though I'd been hit by a bus. Pretty much sore all over. So that was the final straw for me. Amazingly enough, it only took a couple of days on androgel and the soreness totally disappeared.

Of course only you can decide what is right for yourself. Each guy is different, but I think it's really important to know what you may experience so you can be prepared. Best of luck to you!

[tugon (imported)]

I hope this goes well for you. I am comforted by the fact that you will still have T on hand if needed. I am glad you will be keeping this blog.

[mrt (imported)]

I wish you well but I also wonder if this is just going to make you miserable.

Hair (If I undertand this) is a once growing doesn't change type of thing. If you don't want body hair you need to do electrolisis. (Spelled???)

One issue you didn't mention was mental fog which I felt really badly when I was low T

[tugon (imported)]

I wish you well but I also wonder if this is just going to make you miserable.

Hair (If I undertand this) is a once growing doesn't change type of thing. If you don't want body hair you need to do electrolisis. (Spelled???)

Body hair will greatly diminish without T. I used to be very hairy and after almost 13 years without T my body hair is either gone or very fine. Also as discussed in a much earlier thread pubic hair begins to resemble a feminine pubic pattern more than a male pattern. Of course the drop in T did nothing for the reduction of ear hair, damnit. A reduction in body hair is guaranteed but electrolysis is only needed if a total lack of body hair is desired. Since Plix is not transitioning to female a moot point.

As far as the mental fog it does occur to some extent but has not been overly problematic for me. When watching Jeopardy my recall is not what it once was but I usually know if the contestant is right or wrong if I would have known the answer in the beginning. Of course memory at my age can be an issue and less so for someone Plix's age. He may not notice the fog for many years.

I am concerned about his happiness without T but it has been the best thing for me. I was miserable with T and was not in sync with who I truly was. The eunuch me is the happy me.

[plix (imported)]

It has now been two weeks without T.

Sexual changes: Libido is coming down, but it is not yet where I want it. Spontaneous erections have mostly disappeared. Stimulated erections are becoming more difficult, and ejaculation is taking much longer, but ejaculatory output is still normal. Morning wood is softer but not completely gone.

Physical changes: It is much too early to notice any significant bodily changes. I do not own a scale, so until I decide to invest in one, I will find it difficult to keep track of changes in weight. I have not observed any loss of energy. I may be experiencing an improved sense of smell.

Mental/Emotional changes: I'm not sure how exciting this blog will be because I do not seem to get the mental/emotional effects most others get without T. This could be because I am emotionally numb in general. I released a lifetime of emotion as a child, and I am not sure I have any left.

I am nearing the point of long return. If I resume T now, I could recover within a short period of time. If I wait much longer, it will probably take months or more to recover, just like it did the last time I started T. I've restarted T many times over the years, and it seems to take longer each time to get things back to normal.

I thank everyone for their words of advice and support

[plix (imported)]

Many are probably wondering why I am venturing down this path again. I bet that after three years on T you thought I was finished with all of this instability. In reality, I have been searching for my identity all of my life, and the instability will continue until I finally discover it. It is not just hormones but all areas of my life.

I thought I would offer a brief recap of my eunuch-related history up to this point.

June 24, 2005: I am surgically castrated.

July 2005: I begin E with plans to transition to female.

December 2005: I accept I am not female. I quit taking E.

Early 2006: I resume taking E but without plans to become female.

Late 2006: I decide to start T again for the first time. My first try ended days later.

Later 2006 - Late 2007: During this time I stop and restart T several times. I also briefly take E again in 2007.

November 2007 - September 2010: I take T without stopping.

September 2010: I once again stop taking T.

During my earlier experiments with T one of the major reasons I could not continue taking it was T's incompatibility with the relationship I was in at the time. Let's not forget another way I was trying be someone I am not back in those days - I tried to be gay. When off T it was successful. Not in the sense that I was interested in men sexually, but I was able to make a romantic relationship with a man work. At the time I did have romantic feelings for him, and we were happy together.

When I restarted T for the first time, libido did come back rather quickly, and of course my sexual feelings were toward women. I quickly realized that if I wanted to stay in the relationship I was in, that was not going to work.

By the time I started T the most recent time, I had confused my body so badly that libido took a long time to return. When it did, the target was once again women. This time I did not stop taking T, and I eventually decided to end my relationship.

I have maintained a strong libido for some time now, but after doing some thinking, I do not think it meshes well with my personality. I do not see myself as the type to become involved in another romantic relationship. For one thing, women do not seem interested in me. I'm short, shy, have low self-confidence, and so many other things women do not want. What woman would want a guy whose dream car is a Ford Focus?

But even if women were interested, I still question whether I would be. My personality just does not seem compatible with a romantic relationship. One of the top issues is the emphasis I place on my privacy. Most who know me know I am an extremely private person, and I am not sure I can make the necessary sacrifices for a relationship. Another important issue is my severe dislike of conflict. I hate not getting along with people, and conflict is a central part of just about any romantic relationship.

Unfortunately T does not seem to care about personality. It sparks needs that have to be met, no matter how much I know the needs will not be met. In reducing or eliminating libido, my goal is to remove these needs. The idea is that if I do not have the needs, I will care not care so much about their lack of fulfillment. Also, I hope to bring my sexuality in line with my identity.

If I am lucky, my goals will be accomplished There are many other reasons for my discontinuing T, but I thought I would share a more significant one.

[tugon (imported)]

I do not see myself as the type to become involved in another romantic relationship. For one thing, women do not seem interested in me. I'm short, shy, have low self-confidence, and so many other things women do not want. What woman would want a guy whose dream car is a Ford Focus?

But even if women were interested, I still question whether I would be. My personality just does not seem compatible with a romantic relationship. One of the top issues is the emphasis I place on my privacy. Most who know me know I am an extremely private person, and I am not sure I can make the necessary sacrifices for a relationship. Another important issue is my severe dislike of conflict. I hate not getting along with people, and conflict is a central part of just about any romantic relationship.

Plix, you are selling yourself short and I do not mean stature. You are young and you have much to learn of life. You may meet a young woman who is as shy as you are and together you may bond.

Conflict will always happen between two people living together. It is neither good or bad just the nature of the beast. When you meet the woman who is more important than your issues the need for privacy will fade.

I have noticed women checking Plix out. He receives more attention than he can see.

[Conscientious (imported)]

"

One of the top issues is the emphasis I place on my privacy. Most who know me know I am an extremely private person, and I am not sure I can make the necessary sacrifices for a relationship. Another important issue is my severe dislike of conflict. I hate not getting along with people, and conflict is a central part of just about any romantic relationship.

"

Ha ha ha. I can relate to that. I absolutely love my own space and have rarely been in or seen a relationship that you don't think "God, sign me up for celibacy". Maybe you could join a dating site specify you want someone you only see once week. I might do that.

It seems whenever I'm online there is always an american who can't meet anybody. Why is that? Is everyone raised to be superficial there focusing only on financial status or physical attributes? Are ya'll too picky or do you exaggerate a lot? Have heart. Some women, non-US at least, love a man for his heart.

America: The land of dreams and singlehood.

[plix (imported)]

As a young eunuch, I will probably not lose my sexuality as quickly or completely as older eunuchs. This is something that I am beginning to realize. Also, I began E only three weeks after my castration. That probably made for a different experience versus this time around.

I'm not sure what E would do for libido. It may actually contribute to keeping it alive. But E definitely further reduces erectile function. Just the lack of T may leave me with more erections than I would hope for.

I am beginning to think that there may be mental/emotional effects to hormonal changes that I simply do not recall. In an old post I stated that I was taking E in part due to the mental effects (this was after I had decided against transitioning to female). Obviously I must have noticed something that would cause me to post that.

Going back and comparing my posts in those days to more recent posts, I am wondering if there may have been more "life" to my writing when I was taking E. One thing my writing is often accused of is being "stiff" and lacking warmth. On the other hand, it could also have been that I was trying to be female and mimicking what I perceived to be a feminine writing style.

So why am I mentioning E so much? Yes, it's true. After only three weeks I am already considering going back on E. I just can't stick with anything, can I? My goal was supposed to be one year with no hormones. Now, I haven't broken it yet, but the fact that I am considering doing so this early leaves me with doubts that I will be able to accomplish it.

The reasons I am considering taking E are to maintain health and to possibly experience the further reduced sexuality I am looking for. As I have stated previously, I do not identify as female and have no desire to become female.

The cons to taking E:

1) Feminization: Due to my bone structure and mannerisms I will always be able to pass as male, but after some time I may start getting stares again. Also, I have a job now which involves frequent contact with the public. I am concerned about any potential issues that could develop related to my job. I never had significant breast development even on higher doses of E, but it was enough to be noticed as not your typical male chest unless I bound it, which I really would not feel like doing.

2) Availability: I do have a doctor, but I doubt he would be willing to prescribe E. So if I wanted to take it, I would be left with purchasing it online. If I were to take it, I would rather have it prescribed.

I am wondering if the lack of T is going to bring up gender issues again. I have struggled with the following question over the years: If I do not fit the profile of a stereotypical man, does that make me not male? A few years ago I reasoned that it did, and that the only other option was female. However, I learned that female was not right for me. So where does that leave me? People have said that I appear masculine on the outside, but I do not feel stereotypically masculine on the inside. Certainly my flat affect contributes to the outer masculine appearance. If I didn't have that problem, might I be perceived differently?

If were to take T, would I perfectly happy as male and never question my identity?

Most likely what I need to do is be patient and try to stick this out. I am sure I will be happy with where I am at a year from now. But it is so hard to wait that long

[Dave (imported)]

At least you understand you need patience.

Nothing in the human body happens overnight (well nothing good). So relax, enjoy the autumn, find some music you like and listen, read a good book (or a comedy book about zombies. I can recommend one.) and let things happen. This is like watching grass grow. Nothing happens in days but months later, the stuff grows so fast you can't put the mower away.

peace and love (As my old hippie friends say)...

[tugon (imported)]

Youth is always in a hurry. Think about where you will be when 50. All we do today will effect us in later years. Before starting E think about long term goals. I know in some aspects you would be happier spending your life alone but this may cause you to miss out on a greater happiness.

As we have talked many nights I want you to date. Then you would encourage me to find someone and I would remind you "been there, done that and got the soundtrack". When you started on T the realization you were straight was at the time very exciting to you. I made poor Danya take us to Hooters so you could ogle some young women. Danya and I were bored.

You have been loved before and I know you will be loved again. I just want you to be ready when that connection happens. Even after all my years I believe in love.

[plix (imported)]

It has now been one month with no T.

My sense of smell has definitely improved. I am smelling lots of things I never noticed before.

Libido continues to decrease, but I am still far from asexual.

I am now flaccid in the morning but continue to wake up with an erection once per night.

I have yet to notice any significant decrease in energy.

There have been a few times where I felt a little warm, and since that happened last time around as well, they could be mild hot flashes, but they are certainly nothing like what I have heard others describe as full-blown hot flashes.

I would like to have my T levels tested, and I do have a lab order from my doctor that includes a T test. However, he is not aware that I have discontinued taking T. If my levels come back ridiculously low, he will either think there is something seriously wrong or will guess that I have stopped. He stressed the importance of taking T during my last visit, so somehow I don't believe he would be supportive of a non-T eunuch. I have not had the lab work done yet because I am worried about how he will react.

I continue to debate the possibility of taking E. Looking at some old photos taken at the Portland MoM in 2006, I am wondering if I would really feminize as much as I feared. At that time I had been taking E for a year, and I still looked clearly male. And that was when I was younger. Now, being older, E should have even weaker effects on me.

I continue to be thankful to everyone who has responded for their support

[tugon (imported)]

As we travelled lost through Southwestern Ohio I realized you still had a better sense of direction than me. I wonder if that will fade for you as it has for me. Now I know not to use google maps. I need to buy a compass so I know which direction I am driving.

I enjoyed that you were noticing scents that had previously been undetected. For me the best part of no T is all the new senses that had been blocked by T. I noticed people were more comfortable with me after the drop in T.

Speaking of more comfortable I have to say again how much fun I had driving lost through very rural and poor areas with you. Other times I was on edge and well I might as well say it a bitch. The times you were on high levels of T even though I did not understand my reactions I developed defensive reactions. Being no T and you high T triggered a level of anxiety within me. I guess if I ever have a roommate again it will need to be a eunuch or a woman.

Whatever you decide is right for you I support you. In your travels through life and learning about yourself I find I have learned much about myself. After all is that not the greatest aspect of friendship?

[plix (imported)]

Lately I have been experiencing what may be mood issues. However, it is difficult to tell what exactly is causing them.

A significant cause is likely frustration over my job. I have been unhappy for some time now with my job, primarily due to the specific environment in which I work rather than the job itself. I have been offered the opportunity to transfer to a different location, which I happily accepted. I have worked at this location previously, and I was extremely happy there compared to the current location. I never knew a job could be so fun and stress-free until I worked at the different location I am hoping the transfer will relieve most of my job-related stress.

Another probable cause is the transition into winter. I moved from Southern California to Ohio a year and a half ago. Back home we don't have winter. The biggest adjustments I've had to deal with during winter are the extensive periods of gray days and the emptiness that results from the lack of green. We haven't had too many gray days yet, but the trees have gone dormant, which means the emptiness is here. It can be quite depressing at times. We haven't even officially begun winter yet, and I am already longing for summer.

So it is difficult to tell if the hormonal changes are playing a role in my mood fluctuation. In any case, I am sure my hormonal state is not helping.

By now word should be out that I am on E. I would imagine many people probably guessed this was inevitable. I am happy with this decision so far

I desire more feminization than I have admitted up to this point, though I still do not view myself as female. I remain concerned about the social consequences of taking E for a long period of time. We shall see what happens.

Lately I have accepted that just like everything else in my life, my gender seems to be incredibly fluid. I don't see myself as completely female, but I do not see myself as completely male either. It would be nice if I could decide to switch back and forth at will

[tugon (imported)]

Congratulations on the transfer. Work can be fun in an encouraging and safe environment. I am glad you were given some compliments about your work. You should have included them in this post.

Yes the barren grey days are here in Ohio. I was recently complaining about how oppressive the sun was during our visit to Southern California. Now I read about your missing the green and realize it is all what we are used to in our lives. The rebirth of Spring is just around the corner and I hope without all the T in your system you are able to enjoy the perfumed airs of spring.

I hope you find the right HRT or lack of that brings you happiness. It is never too late to have a happy childhood. Your happiness is long overdue.

[Caith721 (imported)]

I desire more feminization than I have admitted up to this point, though I still do not view myself as female. I remain concerned about the social consequences of taking E for a long period of time. We shall see what happens.

Lately I have accepted that just like everything else in my life, my gender seems to be incredibly fluid. I don't see myself as completely female, but I do not see myself as completely male either. It would be nice if I could decide to switch back and forth at will

I am and always will be undeniably male, and I've been taking 17-beta estradiol for two years now. It's helped relieve my depression, but that's not unexpected as I've identified as transgendered since the age of seven. It is my sincere wish you enjoy experiencing all the physical and mental changes estrogen will bring to you. Good luck!

[graylayer02 (imported)]

By now word should be out that I am on E. I would imagine many people probably guessed this was inevitable. I am happy with this decision so far

If there were a betting pool on this subject I'd be a rich man.

Good luck with your recent shift. Is it possible that a certain mix might be right?