Howdy from Michigan

[waj1993]

Missed out on the other forums and their iterations (EA). Losing the grapes has been on my radar for over 30 years. If everything lines up they maybe gone in the next year.

I know the impacts, short and long term for the most part, but rooting through the posts to see what else I've missed.

Glad to have found this site and the folks adding to the knowledge base.

[WheelyFixed]

Welcome, glad to see you found us!

Certainly feel free to ask any questions that you aren't sure about, many of us have been down this road and are happy to share our experiences and knowledge.

Are you working with a TG center and going through the SOCv8 process, or are you looking at medical tourism?

WheelyFixed

[mounds_dont]

Wheely didn't say, but we have people here that are in all stages of the journey. From ideation to pre-op, post-op and living the dream. Please ask questions. I know I did, when I first got here (first and second EA). I played what I called 'stump the experts'.

MD

[waj1993]

WheelyFixed: investigating medical tourism as it is less restrictive, with navigating the American medical system as a secondary. Kids are grown, this isn't a sudden rash decision: wish things would be easier here stateside.

My testosterone is avg 258 over 6 tests (total), free is right around 12, so its not like the little things are super productive.

[WheelyFixed]

WheelyFixed: investigating medical tourism as it is less restrictive, with navigating the American medical system as a secondary. Kids are grown, this isn't a sudden rash decision: wish things would be easier here stateside.

My testosterone is avg 258 over 6 tests (total), free is right around 12, so its not like the little things are super productive.

That level is low, but not terrible - after I got hurt, I was at around 150, and they put me on gel to get me up to around 300 for a few years, and then I started this journey...

We have had several members that got their surgery done by Dr. Aguilar down in Mexico, and everyone has said he did a good job, and that the facilities and care before and after were great. He does "informed consent" but I'm told will want to be sure you are really certain about it, so will want to either talk about why you want to be fixed, or see some psych eval or equivalent... (IMHO this is not unreasonable for a non-reversible procedure...)

I was one of the early people to go through the SOCv8 process at the TG center that is part of MGH, the hospital system I get most of my care through. I was initially terrified by the idea of coming out to the medical community but it has turned out to be a total non-issue. I found it was a bit of a pain to jump through all the hoops, like getting psych letters, and especially waiting for appointments but overall it was surprisingly easy, though slow...

IMHO the biggest advantages of going through the system are that it lets you stay local (travel w/ a disability can be a major challenge) and it was also covered by my insurance, in my case 100%.... (Others have reported getting hit w/ copays that were sometimes almost as much as Dr. A. charges, so you need to investigate your coverage. The TG center will probably have a really good idea about this from other patients experiences)

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

To clarify regarding my average (or to put it into context): I've gone from a high of 291 in January, to a current 205 (mid October). I don't know how statically significant that shift is (I've only been monitoring it since mid December). I've been experimenting since December with what I have been attempting as self induced hypogonadism by utilizing controlled periodical testicular hyperthermia (heating the jewels up without burning them for 6-8 hours at a time daily). It's been tough to ascertain the effectiveness or the thermal conductivity of the tissue (although the jewels are just below the scrotal skin). I've been using banding (not painful banding though), to help isolate them and hopefully expose them more to the heat by keeping the distance from the heat source as small of a distance as possible. The goal in theory is to render the testicles inert (induce fibrosis and cellular degradation) to the point that they cease to function. I started this before coming across this site (or others) and seeing how more accessible elective orchiectomy can be. Banding, crushing, or needling seemed a bit higher risk in terms of having to explain things.

I had to give them an occasional rest (maybe a week at most, no more than three times since beginning) when I was dialing in what felt like the right heat amount without scalding things (getting them too hot where they "molt" results in an extended itchy period while the skin heals.). I'm going to continue this approach while simultaneously pursuing a referral letter for a local orch - if that fails then it would be time to put a passport to work (which wouldn't be terrible, I love me some good authentic Mexican food - stuff that actually has flavor).

Monitoring the effective temperature is problematic, (those laser pointed infrared thermometers have a considerable amount of variation on skin, and to measure surface temp with those I have to remove the heat source, which instantly drops surface temp - and it drives the cat crazy if she spots the laser anywhere). I've got access to K type thermocouples, which is a strong consideration for monitoring.

[WheelyFixed]

I remember discussion on EAv2, and a little here - see https://connect.xfinity.com/ I did a Startpage search on "testicle heating" and got a LOT of hits...

Possibly most useful...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.13264
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7995654/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2475901092

I remember reading other stuff and IIRC the approach that they used was essentially a mini crockpot with a control setup similar to a souve` pot, with a lower temperature, but the same sort of digital controller to hold an exact temperature... I believe the idea was that by using a hot water bath, you could presume that after a while the testicles would be at the same temperature as the bath which is more easily monitored....

I also just found this site which is rather more on the kinky side of things...

https://thedoghouse.azurewebsites.net/m ... tering.htm

and finally, I found an article I vaguely remembered reading before...

http://www.puzzlepiece.org/bcontrol/malebc.html

Hope these are useful, note that it appears that none of these (except possibly the doghouse article) seemed to cause permanent changes, so surgery is probably still in order if wanting to actually get rid of the testicles...

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

Agreed. This is all in an attempt to render them inert until the divorce proceedings are final with the little fellows. I suspect it's had an impact, as based on regular orchidometer comparison I'm down to around 8-10ml in volume so far. Can't get to 0 though without a bit of surgery...

Funny story of sorts: back in my teenage years before internet and better awareness, I tried using electricity (not household) thinking that a current across them would kill them off. Boy oh boy, the things I didn't know back then. Thankfully I had previously experimented using household electricity at a much younger age for other things way before then and had a healthy fear / respect enough to not mess with outlets. (my folks never did figure out why the fuse for my room kept blowing - and in retrospect I am glad the fuses did their job. Not sure even this much later I'd ever fess up to that to my Dad even though the statute of limitations for doing stuff as a kid has long expired. That was pretty dumb...)

[TheRagingEunuch]

"Funny story of sorts: back in my teenage years before internet and better awareness, I tried using electricity (not household) thinking that a current across them would kill them off."

It's stories like this that make me regret having been born a Eunuch. Look at all the fun I missed out on! Grrrrrr!

[waj1993]

"Funny story of sorts: back in my teenage years before internet and better awareness, I tried using electricity (not household) thinking that a current across them would kill them off."

It's stories like this that make me regret having been born a Eunuch. Look at all the fun I missed out on! Grrrrrr!

Wasn't doing it for the fun factor but to nuke the little suckers out of commission. Fun would be the scientific side: what would be the current (electrical) threshold required to accomplish the intended goal without leaving burns or collateral damage. That in itself would be fascinating. I would've volunteered for such a study, with the understanding that they get evicted afterwards.

[Evolve]

Missed out on the other forums and their iterations (EA). Losing the grapes has been on my radar for over 30 years. If everything lines up they maybe gone in the next year.

I know the impacts, short and long term for the most part, but rooting through the posts to see what else I've missed.

Glad to have found this site and the folks adding to the knowledge base.

Welcome to the forum. If you're near Farmington Hills, it might be worth it to see whether Dr. Marc Arnkoff is still performing orchies. There's a recent thread about whether he's still practicing. However, if you're not on a short timeline, I'd suggest researching a few local TG centers/organizations that might be able to point you in the direction of a surgeon and/or any additional info or support.

[waj1993]

Not sure if this should be kept under this thread, but begain therapy sessions to acquire a referral letter for the procedure.

I'm not going to make this known to the bulk of my family, in fact I'm not sure anyone outside of my GP and a few select individuals should know.

I might reconsider that aspect of course at any time. I'm not ashamed of going thru this journey - but many folks would just not get it or be accepting of it. Time will tell.

[Evolve]

Not sure if this should be kept under this thread, but begain therapy sessions to acquire a referral letter for the procedure.

I'm not going to make this known to the bulk of my family, in fact I'm not sure anyone outside of my GP and a few select individuals should know.

I might reconsider that aspect of course at any time. I'm not ashamed of going thru this journey - but many folks would just not get it or be accepting of it. Time will tell.

You definitely need to trust your intuition as to whether or not to share your journey with those in your circle. The beauty of this procedure is nobody beyond your doctor or any intimate partners is ever likely to know about it without you coming out.

In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to pursue that referral letter. I think most providers who require them only require one letter for an orchie, but some might still require two. Often, it's also an insurance requirement, so if you're planning to go through insurance, I would advise that you check with your carrier regarding any such requirements.

[WheelyFixed]

I agree w/ Evolve, the letters shouldn't be hard to get. The current SOCv8 process only requires one letter in theory (the earlier versions required two), but many insurance companies still require two, I know mine did a couple years ago, not sure what they require now... It likely would be possible to fight with the insurance company, but it is probably easier to just get the second letter...

It might also be easier to ask the TG center you are dealing with about it, as they are likely to know from experiences with previous patients. I know mine did...

My experience with the letter process was that it wasn't a big deal. The hardest part was just waiting for the appointments. It took ONE session for each letter. The first therapist took 30-40 minutes for me to convince her I was a sane adult that knew what I was talking about. I suspect my familiarity with the SOCv8 and talking about my experiences with folks on EAv2 helped a lot... The second session was possibly TEN minutes, if that. Essentially it boiled down to introducing ourselves, and then the therapist saying he'd read the case notes from the first guy, and agreed completely, did I have anything to add...

These were both therapists that I'd been referred to by the TG center doc, so I was pretty much expecting it not to be a big deal, and it was less of one than I was expecting... (Which is why I always recommend getting referrals from a TG center, as they are only going to send you to people they expect to be supportive....)

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

Today was the day. I know i haven't followed up in awhile on this, but had my consultation earlier this week, and today went in. No pain yet, but back at home keeping the cat away from my lap will be a challenge for a few.

Followup visit tomorrow.

I just made it under the wire, as Dr is retiring today from his office practice, I was his last patient (in Michigan). I understand he'll be working in a warmer climate state in some other capacity.

Sweat pants are my best friend right now, and i can tell there is a bit of swelling.

[WheelyFixed]

BIG CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Hope the recovery goes well and smoothly...

In my experience, Ice will help with the swelling, especially the first day or two. You want to avoid most of the OTC NSAID's like Tylenol as they will supposedly encourage bleeding. However I'm told that Alleve is OK and will also help with the swelling.

(I go to great lengths to avoid opioids, and don't recommend them at all even if a lot of docs give them out like candy...)

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

Thanks for the recommendations. Pain is pretty minor right now, changing out the gauze from time to time, legs elevated.

Snoozing on an easier to clean reclining chair in case of seepage, and got a bundled blanket discouraging a persistent feline from lap time for awhile.

(All while watching a a persistent martian attempting to recover his space modulator from a cartain more than resourceful rabbit...)

[dandelion]

Tylenol is not an NSAID. It's kind of a pain killer of its own kind. It won't encourage bleeding.

Aleve on the other hand is an NSAID, and can encourage bleeding. But then NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are also, well, anti-inflammatory that could help with swelling.

You want to avoid most of the OTC NSAID's like Tylenol as they will supposedly encourage bleeding. However I'm told that Alleve is OK and will also help with the swelling.

WheelyFixed

[WheelyFixed]

Well hopefully you know more about these things than I do... All I know is that after my surgery I was told NOT to use Tylenol, Motrin, or Advil, but that Alleve was OK and would help the swelling....

WheelyFixed

[Nick2023]

Thanks for the recommendations. Pain is pretty minor right now, changing out the gauze from time to time, legs elevated.

Snoozing on an easier to clean reclining chair in case of seepage, and got a bundled blanket discouraging a persistent feline from lap time for awhile.

(All while watching a a persistent martian attempting to recover his space modulator from a cartain more than resourceful rabbit...)

When I had mine removed I had a lot of swelling for the first few days so I had to stay off my feet and keep an ice pack down there. Don't get board and get up and try to do anything until you are medically cleared and the swelling is under control. I would get tired of sitting around so I would get up and be active and a half hour later my cords were ballooning up. What I found interesting is the heavy bruising that only lasted a day. Congrats on joining the eunuch community and speedy healing.

[waj1993]

Day after, about a 2-3 on the pain scale, not much discoloration, some swelling. Am fairly mobile, did go to work but only light duty stuff (no lifting). Any pain or discomfort is acutally above the pubic region (so if that's getting graphic). The surgery site itself is pain free mostly.

[WheelyFixed]

Did you just get a simple orchie, or did he also take off the scrotum and / or other bits?

I know when I had my orchie and scrotectomy I didn't really feel like I noticed the orchie because most of my pain and discomfort was from the scrotectomy incision and stitches, or at least that's how it felt to me... Others have also said the scrotectomy was the more painful of the two surgeries and took somewhat longer to get over.

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

Orchie. The scrotal skin stays put.

[WheelyFixed]

Then you will probably heal up pretty fast according to the other reports I've seen...

Downside, is that unless you are thinking about going for vaginoplasty (which uses that tissue) a lot of others have reported finding the empty scrotum causes a significant amount of discomfort to the point of going for a second surgery to get rid of it... Issues included getting pinched in clothing and being sweaty and sticking to legs and so on...

It was why I had them both at the same time since i didn't want to have to go through two recoveries, however its very much a question of personal choice.

WheelyFixed

[waj1993]

This has gone from a introduction to more of a journal, but thanks for bearing with me.

Bit more swelling and coloration today, but plenty mobile. Sweat pants are my friend currently. Pain is manageable, simple otc stuff does the trick.