Eunuchs and Gender

[dingbat (imported)]

I was having a conversation with someone yesterday about gender classifications. I happened to mention this forum in passing. The person with whom I was speaking said "oh no, you can't include eunuchs in this conversation because they don't have gender issues, it's a physical thing for them, it's not about gender". Hmm.

My response was to say that, in a way, ALL of these discussions are physical in some way. Whether you're talking about t/g issues, eunuch issues, intersex issues or any other permutation thereof, they all have a physical component.

But then, he was also right in a funny kind of way, since being here I've learnt a great deal about voluntary castration and it certainly seems that there are some people for whom it's a purely physical thing, but others definitely have gender issues. I'm not talking about castration as a result of cancer or accident, I'm talking here about voluntary castration.

The conversation I refer to happened whilst I was in discussion with someone about the Gender Recognition Bill in the UK (sorry to harp on about the same thing all the time!). The really interesting thing was that I was talking to someone who is reasonably well-informed and the comment he made wasn't intended to be a value-judgement, it was just what he genuinely believed to be true.

When I thought about the conversation afterwards I realised that I wasn't at all sure what my position was! I have no idea how to set up a poll on here (or even if I'm allowed to!) but I was wondering this :

How many of you feel that your castration had anything to do with your gender?

In other words, was physical castration the sole thing for you or has it also something to do with the way you feel about yourself gender-wise?

I guess I'm getting at this 'third gendered' thing again, but more specifically this time.

I honestly don't know what the ratios here are. This isn't a loaded post, I'm genuinely interested to see what people say.

Did your castration have anything to do with bringing your 'biological' gender into line with your 'personally perceived*' gender?

*Personally perceived gender meaning how you see yourself or how you wish yourself to be seen.

[kristoff]

Look at the menu bar on the post thread. There is a click box says :Thread tools." Poll stuff is in there. Yes you can start a poll. Just make sure you put an end date on it. As to topical questions you posited, I would suggest you have extensive conversations with Jesus. I'm sure you would both enjoy it, particularly since he and some others have been doing a lot of work in that area already.

[dingbat (imported)]

Thanks Kristoff, yes, I did tick on the 'post a poll' thing but nothing came up to tell me how to post the questions and so I gave up.

Jesus and I have had some truly fascinating conversations about this and, you're right, he has an amazing knowledge on this sort of thing but I guess I just wondered how people here felt about the issue.

Thanks and my apologies that I'm way too stupid to work out how to post a poll!!

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

Stupid? No, not at all. --FLO--

[kristoff]

I was having a conversation with someone yesterday about gender classifications. I happened to mention this forum in passing. The person with whom I was speaking said "oh no, you can't include eunuchs in this conversation because they don't have gender issues, it's a physical thing for them, it's not about gender". Hmm.

My response was to say that, in a way, ALL of these discussions are physical in some way. Whether you're talking about t/g issues, eunuch issues, intersex issues or any other permutation thereof, they all have a physical component.

But then, he was also right in a funny kind of way, since being here I've learnt a great deal about voluntary castration and it certainly seems that there are some people for whom it's a purely physical thing, but others definitely have gender issues. I'm not talking about castration as a result of cancer or accident, I'm talking here about voluntary castration.

The conversation I refer to happened whilst I was in discussion with someone about the Gender Recognition Bill in the UK (sorry to harp on about the same thing all the time!). The really interesting thing was that I was talking to someone who is reasonably well-informed and the comment he made wasn't intended to be a value-judgement, it was just what he genuinely believed to be true.

When I thought about the conversation afterwards I realised that I wasn't at all sure what my position was! I have no idea how to set up a poll on here (or even if I'm allowed to!) but I was wondering this :

How many of you feel that your castration had anything to do with your gender?

In other words, was physical castration the sole thing for you or has it also something to do with the way you feel about yourself gender-wise?

I guess I'm getting at this 'third gendered' thing again, but more specifically this time.

I honestly don't know what the ratios here are. This isn't a loaded post, I'm genuinely interested to see what people say.

Did your castration have anything to do with bringing your 'biological' gender into line with your 'personally perceived*' gender?

*Personally perceived gender meaning how you see yourself or how you wish yourself to be seen.

Back from the garage - new brake cables this AM....

Looked up posting a poll. When one starts a new thread (the poll must head the thread), scroll to the bottom of the page. There is a check box for starting a new poll. Go there - it takes you through the steps....

[confuzed (imported)]

I have to mention first off ,that I haven't been castrated yet, but I'm looking in to it.

When I first came to this site it was because of a sex addiction I have, and although I have had TG thoughts all my life, its only then I was young there where as strong as they are now.

I am still unsure why it has got so strong, but I think Its maybe due to low T.

Anyway, I don't think I would make a very convincing female, if that is what I really want, but I don't want to be male and have all these male characteristics anymore.. So I'm thinking of getting testicles removed next year, I know this will not take the male status away from me, but its the next best thing, until I decide to transition or not.

So what I'm trying to say is, I don't know if I was meant to female, but I was never meant to be male either.

So that would be my reason for castration, plus it would get rid of my sex addiction at the same time, kind of like a double whammy lol

Confuzed

[tugon (imported)]

I was castrated because I did not want to be male. I consider myself as eunuch and not male or female. This has more to do with emotions then it is a physical issue. Here is a link to a thread I started with some interesting replies.

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9791

[jemagirl (imported)]

My situation has a lot to do with gender. I don't like any of the secondary male sex characteristics. I absolutely don't fit into the "M box" but I don't see my self as being entirely female either. So the desire for an orchiectomy in my case is very related to gender.

I feel the original intent in coining the word transgender, was to express the reality of a persons gender identity, as originating some where between their ears rather than their legs. I also feel that the intent was in part to acknowledge that there are more than two genders. Drawing from my own experience, finding my self some where between male and female, I can see the validity of some one identifying as bi-gendered, non-gendered or eunuch. I also see many people who are voluntary eunuchs as male, and in some cases female.

Some times in the past I have spent hours looking at people's profiles. I find the amazing amount of diversity really interesting. It might be interesting to do a spread sheet but I wouldn't know where to begin because the reality of this place is so multidimensional.

[Fixet (imported)]

I am chemical castrated. My gender as to do alot with my castration, as i don't see my male characteristics fitting me. Neither does female characteristics.

I see myself as a Neutrois http://neutrois.0catch.com/defin.htm

[truly committed (imported)]

but I don't want to be male and have all these male charac

hteriztics any more..

confused, what do you mean? emotionally? or psychicallY? I can understand the latter, but not the former-i see no differance between the way men act and women act, and women are as horny as men...

I dont know,what if you were a female and were addicted to sex? what would you do? Society right now is really giving men a hard time and i really dont like it...

[confuzed (imported)]

but I don't

want to be male and have all these male charac

hteriztics any more..

confused, what do you mean? emotionally? or psychicallY? I can understand the latter, but not the former-i see no differance between the way men act and women act, and women are as horny as men...

I dont know,what if you were a female and were addicted to sex? what would you do? Society right now is re

ally giving men a hard time and i really dont like it...

Psychically mainly, but I enjoy being more emotional.

I just hate my body the way it is.

If I was genetically female and had a sex addiction, I really don't know what I'd do, maybe see a councilor about it.

[truly committed (imported)]

are women more emotional? I dont buy into differances between men and women...

so tell me about it...

[confuzed (imported)]

are women more emotional? I dont buy into differances between men and women...

so tell me about it...

I'm sorry if i have offended you, but IMO woman are more emotional then men, and I believe the most people would say this too.

Plz tell me if I'm wrong

[truly committed (imported)]

Youre not wrong, but are you right? A lot of people say that, but i dont buy it-i havent noticed the differance. I notice differances between people, not sexes...

you havent offended me, i dunno-i just think lots of women think they are superiror to men, well its not the case at all...

people are people.

[confuzed (imported)]

I just see women get emotional at films, and men not.

Women crying after arguing with someone, and men generally don't.

I'm not on about every man, but most I have come across with normal T levels are like that.

I don't know if we are on about the same thing here, but thats how I see it.

[twaddler (imported)]

That whole gender thang is confusing. For me castration, in part, equaled a sort of compromise -- no more testosterone and then you can get all that silly gender shit out of your head.

And more testosterone == less emotional... in my experience that is. Going from being testosterone-free thanks to chemical castration and then having to endure a high-T body one of the things I hated was how emotional zombified I felt.

[truly committed (imported)]

hmm thats intresting...im not sure what to say.......

[truly committed (imported)]

maybe they are more emotional, id say maybe too emotional! emotionally unstable maybe (some) (please dont shoot me), i just took it as you meant more emotional as a positive thing..like men dont have feelings or something....

then again its still differnt among people, i reallly dont want to cry when i drop my pen.....

Just me ranting when i should be quiet

[thefraj (imported)]

If I may wade into this debate with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the brain!... and say that I am most definitely not male. To be classified with the other males in this world I actually find tremendously insulting! And being more emotional is a positive thing. LOL At least to me it is.

Dingbat, if your friend believes this issue to be purely about the body/physical aspect of castration (and not a gender issue), then it would be interesting to hear his/her reasoning as to why some people on these boards undergo "chemical castration" by taking Androcur and Depo-Provera over a prolonged period to achieve the same results WITHOUT immediate surgery?

I have escaped being male, the testosterone and everything that goes with it. My only other thought is that having testosterone affect brain function (as it DOES!) is a perfectly NORMAL part of being male. Sorry to be all preachy. Its just that I had exactly the same debate with two co-workers "What makes someone male?"

[truly committed (imported)]

whats so bad about being male frag? To be lumped in as male is insulting? hmm im not sure what to say, people are people..one gender isnt better than the other.

Tell me more, tell me about this im intrested to know more about your story...

why is being male so bad?

[Paolo]

Probably for the same reasons that I'd be insulted if I were identified as female. I'm not, and that'd really upset me. Yet I don't identify as male either, at least I don't think so - not in my own mind. I know plenty of "real males", so to speak, and most of them make me ill. Maybe that's why I almost always score in the middle or neutral on gender tests?

I can remember growing up, always telling myself - and even up into my early 20's - "I'm never going to be like that!" - when looking at the males in my life.

[bobbie (imported)]

OK

I will put a little twist on this discussion. If someone what to know what my gender is I would say that I am most closely related to being a "Neutrois". It is not a very common term but once I found the site I felt that the basic definition fits me well. I was born in a male body but not really a male. I am far less a female. If one would ask what sex I am, I say that I am asexual. That is not because I am now a very happy eunuch. I was born asexual with some gay tendencies.

So I guess I am an eunuch Neutrois.

Here is a link to the Neutrois. The original site is dead but it is backed up on this site. http://neutrois.0catch.com/defin.htm

There is a yahoo group as well but not very active. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neutroisoutpost/

[homptydumpty (imported)]

i once felt like a seed.

all that was needed to keep me happy was water n warmth.

then i grew a bit and craved more,

a bit of soil and sun.

as i grew larger,

i became unhappy.

i no longer wanted to take in those things which made me large,

i hated all the tangled limbs dangling from my spirit.

choosing elimination was inevitable,

taking it upon myself i dismembered a bit.

and once again am happy,

seeking out new fertilization,

i grow.

z

[truly committed (imported)]

thanks z I hope you are okay!!!!!!!!!!!! nice words.....

Paolo-most real males make you ill? Well considering im a guy and am glad to be a guy! im not sure what to say.......

Id think no gender is better than the other, people suck in general..

[Hash (imported)]

It was always the feeling of being out of control sexually that made me do things that were dangerous to me. Males in particular do stupid dangerous things, prompted by testosterone. Somehow my desire to be castrated was also in part, prompted by testosterone, figure that out. My problem is that I cannot live without some testosterone, so I use a low dosage supplement. The benefit is that I am now able to control the testosterone in body. Since it is "low dose" my testosterone ranges between 150-200ml (normal male 300-1200). That's enough to keep away the depression problems and as yet, no signs of osteoporosis, though my endocrinologist thinks in time that will reveal itself. Gender wise, I am male with hypogonadism, low testosterone, but I no longer put myself in dangerous sexual sitiuations. I feel free from the dominating effects of testosterone that once pushed me to do stupid, dangeous things that may have cost me my life.

I was flipping channels and watched a segment of a penis enlargement commercial. I had no desire to include myself in the stupidity of what they were trying to sell. I could truly say, "Who cares!" Women don't care, in fact, most women would rather have a loving relationship than a giant penis. They'd rather choose someone who truly cares about them over a testosterone controlled maniac with a large penis who keeps looking for a sexual liasion with yet another woman. Only women who are using/taking "testosterone" can understand what men go through. Bottom line, if I'm considered less of a man because my testosterone level is just a little higher than a woman's "t" level, fine by me.